Another Kindy Phonics Question-LONG

[grace'smom]

My daughter is going to be 5 in March. I have struggled over choosing every subject and now we are on phonics. We compromised on D'nelian for handwriting, because she wants to learn manuscript one day and cursive the next. I chose Rightstart A for Math, and we are both very happy with that. For phonics we chose SWR, because she may have issues with dyslexia (family history, auditory problems). So I have taught her all the first 26 phonograms, no problem. She loves it. She wants to read, and she is able to identify the first letter of words, and sometimes some of the other letters as well if you say a word very slowly. But I'm kind of intimidated with the SWR, and I am stalled as to what to do now since she is not even 5 yet. I considered switching to Phonics Road b/c it's a SWR similar approach, but has more hand holding which I need. But she's too young still.

 

Is there a good curriculum out there for YOUNG kindergarteners, or for kids that might need a slower, more graduated approach? She doesn't "get" reading, but she wants to learn it. She is more comfortable with spelling. We tried a "progressive phonics" book yesterday (book 1) but she got upset when she kept having to sound out the same words and it was overwhelming her. We have ClickNRead. She loves it until it gets to the part where she has to identify the LAST letter of the word, then she is confused b/c she keeps wanting to ID the first letter and doesn't understand the directions, and she gets upset when the computer tells her she is wrong. I also think the computer talks to fast for her to understand it, as she needs slower speech patterns for processing.

 

She is sensitive, but bright and she wants to learn. Is there something gentle I can use to give her confidence and slowly build her up until she is ready for a more formal approach? Is AAS appropriate for younger kids? I thought about SSRW but it's so expensive to use for just one year before PRTR... And is SSRW a good approach for possible dyslexia? I'm just looking for something to make her feel like she is "doing school" and phonics, but very lightly.

[AudreyTN]

Have you looked at Teach Your Child to Read in 100 Easy Lessons?

 

My children didn't care much for it because it went too slow for them. But they start reading words by the 2nd or 3rd lesson.

[MissKNG]

starfall.com and readingeggs.com are the websites we are using for phonics right now. You do have to pay for readingeggs.com but they have a two week trial so you can see and use it.

 

 

Plus an Evan Moor workbook.

 

http://www.evan-moor.com/Title.aspx?CurriculumID=3&ClassID=226&SeriesID=10&TitleID=27&EmcID=27

Edited December 4, 2009 by MissKNG

[Lisa in the UP of MI]

My dd also was more comfortable with spelling than reading. I used activities from a book called Montessori Read and Write which taught her how to distinguish all of the sounds in a word orally, letter sounds, and how to build simple words (spell) with a movable alphabet. We then moved to All About Spelling. They were both a big hit here and now I'm using the Montessori book with ds. Both the book and AAS would be appropriate for an almost 5yo.

[Dinsfamily]

We're using SWR for Kindy and it's going really well. I have a schedule on my blog here for K'ers that goes half pace of the 1st grade one in the back of SWR. We have also taken a few review weeks here and there just to review the phonograms, spelling rules, and some words. We usually do these weeks when we don't have a full 5 days (due to vacation or holidays) to introduce new words. One thing I really like about SWR is that you can go your own pace and K'ers aren't expected to master anything. They learn the phonograms by exposure and go through the word lists at least twice. K is really more of an introduction year. With that said, my ds has mastered about 60 of the phonograms, 10 of the rules, and hasn't gotten less than an 80% on his weekly tests.

 

Hope that helps,

[grace'smom]

It doesn't look expensive, it's worth a shot. Would it be bad to do that first and then switch to Phonics Road?

[grace'smom]

We're using SWR for Kindy and it's going really well. I have a schedule on my blog here for K'ers that goes half pace of the 1st grade one in the back of SWR. We have also taken a few review weeks here and there just to review the phonograms, spelling rules, and some words. We usually do these weeks when we don't have a full 5 days (due to vacation or holidays) to introduce new words. One thing I really like about SWR is that you can go your own pace and K'ers aren't expected to master anything. They learn the phonograms by exposure and go through the word lists at least twice. K is really more of an introduction year. With that said, my ds has mastered about 60 of the phonograms, 10 of the rules, and hasn't gotten less than an 80% on his weekly tests.

 

Hope that helps,

 

Do you do manuscript or cursive?

[Dinsfamily]

Do you do manuscript or cursive?

 

We started in manuscript because D-Man had a lot of bad habits coming into the program and I wanted to correct them. About 2 weeks into the program, he really wanted to learn cursive, so we'll be doing that over the summer while we take a short break from word lists. I plan on starting C-Monster in cursive, though. Either way, I'm really sold on the letter formation instruction. It corrected D-Man's bad habits in a week!

[MerryAtHope]

Is AAS appropriate for younger kids?

 

Yes' date=' here's an article about readiness for AAS. I think it could be fun, and a good fit for her--she can spell first and then work on reading. The tiles make it easy for a younger child to use whether or not they are writing much yet. Merry :-)

[FairProspects]

Yes, here's an article about readiness for AAS. I think it could be fun, and a good fit for her--she can spell first and then work on reading. The tiles make it easy for a younger child to use whether or not they are writing much yet. Merry :-)

 

:iagree:I have a very young K'er, late summer birthday, immature, and LDs too, and AAS lessons are the only lessons he has done with zero complaints. We are going very slowly due to all these issues though, about 1 step every week of Level 1 (which I think is much slower than the pace that most use it) but I already see dramatic improvements in attention span and reading progress. HTH!

[Sunkirst]

Both my ds who is dyslexic and my dd6 who is not, really enjoy AAS. We progress at our own pace, and we read what we write. When my dd was 5 she loved to write short nonsense stories with the AAS words, and those were her 1st readers. With dd we have recently started having her read non-phonetic books (Dr. Seuss is a fave). I'm not having her do a whole-word approach, rather, letting her use her phonics knowledge and pictures/ context to decipher new words. This is also helping her with sight words, which are introduced much later in AAS. She's just tickled to be reading real books now.

 

May I suggest that if dyslexia is a possibility you might want to try letting her sculpt her letters or her sight words (or both). This was a suggestion from a book called The Gift of Dyslexia, by Ron Davis. Evidently, when this sculpting technique has been implemented in regular K and 1st classrooms, there are fewer cases of dyslexia (reported in 2nd and 3rd grade, when testing can begin) than one would expect. It was the first step in helping my ds overcome his dyslexia, and I now have all my kids do this as play.

[Ellie]

I wouldn't consider a March birthday "young." :-)

 

Teach Your Child to Read in 100 Easy Lessons is supposed to be good for children who are mentally ready to read but whose fine motor skills are not developed enough yet.

 

Spalding is easily adapted to younger children.

[The Governess]

I used Hooked on Phonics with dd5 when she was 3. No writing at all and no actual "teaching" of the phonics rules, just sounding out one word and then learning 10 more that sound the same but with a different first letter. It worked very well for my dd, and now we are using AAS to review the phonics rules while she is learning to spell. I think having to go through all of the rules would have frustrated her, she just wanted to read at that point. :D

[Heidi]

"She loves it until it gets to the part where she has to identify the LAST letter of the word, then she is confused b/c she keeps wanting to ID the first letter"

 

Ok, my dd4 cannot do this either. It's beyond her understanding right now. Can your daughter blend? After she knows the sounds, the next step is blending. IDing the last letter, etc, has more to do with spelling, not so much with reading (though it helps, I suppose).

 

My dd4 wanted to learn to read too, so we worked on blending by playing verbal games. When she was able to blend, we started reading 3-letter words. That's where she's at now; she can sound out three letter words, blend the sounds, and figure out what it says.

 

I'm now using PR with her. We just finished the first week.

[Heather in VA]

Well we are using Phonics Museum. We love it. My dd is in the second year (it's a 2 year program) and can read very well and spell pretty well too. She's ADHD and the variety of lessons, songs, cards etc keeps it from getting dull. It does have workbook-type lessons but she likes that. I tried OPGTR before this and it was awful for her.

 

I'm very happy with it.

 

Heather

[Aurelia]

Have you looked into the Leapfrog videos? We have the first two, Talking Letter Factory and Talking Word Factory that are good. The first teaches the letter sounds (short-vowel) and the second shows how to blend. We did that before formal phonics lessons and I think it really helped.

[grace'smom]

"She loves it until it gets to the part where she has to identify the LAST letter of the word, then she is confused b/c she keeps wanting to ID the first letter"

 

Ok, my dd4 cannot do this either. It's beyond her understanding right now. Can your daughter blend? After she knows the sounds, the next step is blending. IDing the last letter, etc, has more to do with spelling, not so much with reading (though it helps, I suppose).

 

My dd4 wanted to learn to read too, so we worked on blending by playing verbal games. When she was able to blend, we started reading 3-letter words. That's where she's at now; she can sound out three letter words, blend the sounds, and figure out what it says.

 

I'm now using PR with her. We just finished the first week.

 

What kind of verbal games did you play? How did Phonics Road go this week? Does it seem advanced for 4/5, or just about right? It seems like everyone who talks about Phonics Road starts in first grade, at age 6...

[Heidi]

What kind of verbal games did you play? How did Phonics Road go this week? Does it seem advanced for 4/5' date=' or just about right? It seems like everyone who talks about Phonics Road starts in first grade, at age 6...[/quote']

 

Just to see if she could blend sounds, b/c its a developmental skill, I would say, "try and guess what I'm saying: /p/ /i/ /g/" (if she doesn't know, I'll repeat it a little faster. If she can't get it, I just tell her and do another one.) "I said 'pig'!" "ok, try this one: /b/ /e/ /d/" , etc. Finally she was able to guess what I was sounding out; she was able to blend. We practiced blending for a while, verbally, like a few weeks or so, before we tried actually reading. It's still really slow going, but she can do it. She read one Bob book a day this week; we've also worked through a number of lessons in opgtr.

 

With PR, I'm completely new to this program, and like I said I've only just finished week 1 with both dd5&4; the program starts off really slow for the first few weeks. So far it's fine for dd4. However, I can already tell my dd5 will breeze through PR1, but somewhere along the line dd4 will need to slow down a bit. I've heard some people stretch out PR1 over a few years if you're starting younger children. We'll see. I'm not really worried about it. I know dd4 won't keep up with dd5; there's 19 months difference bt. them.

 

The reason I'm starting dd4 with PR1 is because I'm curious to test the idea of teaching spelling before or as you teach reading, and since dd4 is beginning to read I thought I'd go ahead with the program. If it turns out to be too much we'll just stop and pick it up later, but it doesn't really look beyond her capabilities at the moment. But again, I don't know the program well yet, so we'll see.

 

HTH!

[grace'smom]

Well, keep us posted how it all goes! I'm very interested.

 

I don't think Grace can blend yet. She gets upset when I play those types of games, LOL. She can "unglue", like when we try to spell the word instead of guess it. I don't know why she can do that but not do the other, but I guess it's all a process. It also doesn't make sense that she can't do it but she can sound out some 3 letter words. Maybe she is developing the ability, and she doesn't want me to see her struggle. She has a real issue with not doing things perfectly the first time.

 

I think I will try 100 Easy Lessons for a few weeks and see how that goes, if that can get her more comfortable with herself and the process I will move on to All About Spelling for one year. Then in first grade we will go to Phonics Road. Is that too many programs? I really want to lead up to Phonics Road, but I'm somewhat certain she is not ready for that yet...

[siloam]

Personally if she has to sound out a lot, I wouldn't have her reading.

 

I bought 100 EZ lessons, but I am a visual dyslexic and have a hard time looking at the page yet alone reading it.

 

Given your dd is better at spelling, I would 1. buy AAS, and work on spelling. Let her read the cards, but only about 4 a day till she starts to read words without sounding out, 2. open up the Wise guide and have her start spelling words on the first list. (I would suggest you e-mail Hidden Jewel as she is using it to teach reading and could help you).

 

The philosophy of SWR is that you don't force reading, you wait till it clicks. In general I think that is a good idea. Continue spelling, sound out a few words each day (3-4) to work on the ability, then move on. In time it will come. Dyslexic students usually need lots of repetition and good old time to get there.

 

Heather

[Aloha2U]

I would like to offer some encouragement if you choose to continue with SWR, though I completely understand that it can be intimidating. I honestly don't think your dd is too young to progress in SWR, even if unofficially (I'll elaborate on this below), especially if she's comfortable with and willing to do spelling... and since she already knows the 26 single-letter phonograms. :thumbup1:

 

Perhaps I can offer a few ideas to gain some momentum w/SWR, but first... let me remind you of something you that you may recall from reading page 9 in SWR, in the hopes that it may reassure you NOT to worry about your ds not "getting" reading just yet.

 

We build spelling words from the part to the whole. In reading a word, we identify the whole. Reading is a spontaneous outworking of our (SWR's) type of spelling instruction. Some students connect spelling and reading instantly. Others need a longer time working with words before they recognize the magic of the code. The speed of understanding will vary, but with patient persistence all students can learn this way.

 

Rather than majoring on how fast a student will read, we (SWR) concentrate on teaching the enduring principles that produce long-term success. None of our rules become outdated as the vocabulary expands. Our spelling list covers practically ever pattern of English spelling and speaking. Teachers who faithfully teach this program consistently produce students who can spell and read well enough to be able to work independently for much of their subsequent education.

 

I started SWR w/my ds last year, shortly after his 4th birthday (turned 5 this past July). As I wrote in my K4 Reflections post on our homeschool blog, I really didn't know what to expect with regards to this area of lessons. When we began our K4 school year in September 2008, my little man was learning how to form the 26 single-letter phonograms in cursive (w/Cursive First), using his large motor skills in a salt box... saying them as he wrote them. Shortly thereafter he moved on to the whiteboard, until finally he asked if he could just write w/pencil and paper.

 

By mid-February we began implementing some simple dictation to test the waters and see if he was up for it. No problem!

 

By mid-March he was practice writing both the basic single-letter and multi-letter phonograms in cursive and on paper. (On a side note, I actually wish I had him begin practice writing the multi-letter phonograms sooner, I don't know why I didn't.)

 

Then by April, we began dictation from the Wise Guide lists.

 

At the end of our official K4 year my little man could identify all of SWR's 70 basic phonograms (26 single and 44 multi-letter), write all of the single-letter phongrams in cursive as well as most of the multi-letter phonograms from memory, and he unofficially completed dictation from lists A-H (just basic phonetic markings... no spelling rules, grammar, or splitting of syllables, etc.) from the Wise Guide.

 

The "unofficial" run through of the spelling lists provided him w/exposure (not mastery by any means) to simple words the SWR way. It also provided me with a nice, long warm-up to SWR. Perhaps this slow, gradual approach may be what your looking for? It amazes me how he picked up on reading just by doing it... definitely more than I had expected! That said, I didn't make him read anything (torture reading), I'm just letting it click for him - like Siloam previously mentioned.

 

Now in our K5 school year, everything is going great thus far! We're "officially" in List E-1 (words 81-90). I believe that nice, long warm-up helped SWR to just click for both of us this year! I can honestly say that I've learned early on NOT to underestimate your child just because of their age and what society thinks is appropriate for that age. ;)

 

Here are a few samples of what our LA sessions looked like each week, more or less. We did lessons four days a week.

 

 

Week 1 (of 36)

 

Day 1

Phonics: Review 26 single-letter phonograms (cursive flash cards)

SWR Game: How Sounds are Made

Handwriting: Practice write the phonograms a, c, d, g, o, qu (clock letters) in salt box or whiteboard

 

Day 2

Phonics: Review 26 single-letter phonograms (manuscript flash cards)

SWR Game: Guess the Word

Handwriting: Practice write the phonograms a, c, d, g, o, qu (clock letters) in salt box or whiteboard

 

Day 3

Phonics: Review 26 single-letter phonograms (cursive flash cards)

SWR Game: Unglue the Word

Handwriting: Practice write the phonograms a, c, d, g, o, qu (clock letters) in salt box or whiteboard

 

Day 4

Phonics: Review 70 basic phonograms (manuscript flash cards)

SWR Game: Count the Syllables (The New England Primer is handy for this activity)

Handwriting: Practice write the phonograms a, c, d, g, o, qu (clock letters) in salt box or whiteboard

 

 

Week 28 (of 36)

 

Day 1

Phonics: Review 70 basic phonograms (cursive flash cards)

SWR Game: Review Clockface and House Diagram

Handwriting: Practice write the multi-letter phonograms sh, ee, th, oo, and er

Dictation: WISE Guide List B, words 21-25

 

Day 2

Phonics: Review 26 single-letter phonograms (manuscript flash cards)

SWR Game: Guess the Word

Handwriting: Practice write the multi-letter phonograms sh, ee, th, oo, and er

Dictation: WISE Guide List B, words 26-30

 

Day 3

Phonics: Review 26 single-letter phonograms (cursive flash cards)

SWR Game: Unglue the Word

Handwriting: Practice write the multi-letter phonograms sh, ee, th, oo, and er

Dictation: WISE Guide List B, words 31-35

 

Day 4

Phonics: Review 70 basic phonograms (manuscript flash cards)

SWR Game: Count the Syllables (The New England Primer is handy for this activity)

Handwriting: Practice write the multi-letter phonograms sh, ee, th, oo, and er

Dictation: WISE Guide List B, words 36-40

 

 

HTH! :001_smile:

[Lovedtodeath]

The first thing I would try would be http://www.thephonicspage.org/On%20Reading/webstersway.html It is free. It is proven.

 

I also think continuing with SWR is a good idea. If it gives you trouble, it may help to know that Orton-Gillingham programs are generally better suited to dyslexic children than Spalding programs. AAS is OG, though IMO it is too slow to use for reading. WRTR is the Spalding method. SWR and Phonics Road based on that.

 

Orton-Gillingham reading programs:

 

Sensational Strategies for Teaching Beginning Readersâ„¢

and then:

 

Recipe for Reading Recipe for Reading Workbooks

[grace'smom]

CMama,

Thank you so much for your beginning schedule! I was sitting here reading it as I listened to my daughter sounding out a letter to her friend. She got the first letter of each word, so I love you, is I L U, etc. She is doing so well at trying to spell and your post was so helpful that I got out all my SWR stuff and decided to start over.

I followed your schedule for the first day, although I modified it so she only did 3 letters in her salt box. I think this this is just what I need to get started. Even the kindergarten schedule in the book was a little too advanced for her. I'll just go really slow and try not to think too far ahead. I think I'm afraid of doing the dictation wrong. It makes me want to get a scripted program.

I did get 100 EZ lessons this weekend and did the first lesson of that, but it seems to be blending practice and syllable ID for the first couple weeks, so I don't think it really conflicts. I'll use it for ideas re: syllable rec, blending, etc, and then leave it alone when it gets to actual reading so that we can try to stick to the SWR philosophy for a while. Then after the first year we will probably switch to PRTR so that we can have a more wrap around language arts program, complete with hand holding for first time homeschool moms ;).

So, with this in mind, I will be writing you all back in several months in a panic attack regarding how to actually dictate a spelling lesson! Makes me panic just thinking about it!

 

Thanks so much for all your help! I didn't know SWR isn't a good program for possible dyslexia, so if she has any trouble I will be sure to check out the Sensational Strategies links. I am watching for that, b/c her father had a lot of trouble and she has auditory issues.

 

Thanks again!

Hailey

[Lovedtodeath]

Thanks so much for all your help! I didn't know SWR isn't a good program for possible dyslexia' date=' so if she has any trouble I will be sure to check out the Sensational Strategies links. I am watching for that, b/c her father had a lot of trouble and she has auditory issues. [/quote'] I didn't say that it wasn't a good program for possible dyslexia, actually. It is just that Orton-Gillingham programs have a higher success rate for those with dyslexia. I hope that makes sense.

[siloam]

Thanks so much for all your help! I didn't know SWR isn't a good program for possible dyslexia' date=' so if she has any trouble I will be sure to check out the Sensational Strategies links. I am watching for that, b/c her father had a lot of trouble and she has auditory issues.

 

Thanks again!

Hailey[/quote']

 

Hailey,

 

SWR can be good for dyslexic children, it just depends on the child. Many dyslexic children are easily overwhelmed, and trying to cover so many different sounds and rules in one list is hard for them. O/G programs will focus their lists on one sound or rule and only gives multiple rules when doing review-with material the child should already know. There are always going to be children who can handle it fine, in fact the author's children were dyslexic. In your case you already own SWR, so there is no reason to invest in anything else unless it becomes an problem.

 

But you have the right idea, take it nice and slow, repeat a lot. Given you are now using two programs, be aware it can cause confusion. Sometimes dyslexic children can't handle multiple things at once, but sometimes a different format will allow them to handle it fine. Other kids don't easily become overwhelmed despite being dyslexic-they have other weaknesses. If they do show signs of being overwhelmed just back of one of them, no big deal.

 

Heather

 

[Aloha2U]

So' date=' with this in mind, I will be writing you all back in several months in a panic attack regarding how to actually dictate a spelling lesson! Makes me panic just thinking about it![/quote']

 

Are you a member of the SWR Yahoo group? I believe there are some great helps in the file section, located under Dictation. I keep a copy of the Spelling Dictation Guide in my WISE Guide and continually refer back to it... very helpful, indeed. I believe Wanda Sanseri sells a bookmark version of it... here.

 

HTH!

 

:001_smile: Melissa

[Lovedtodeath]

Hailey,

 

SWR can be good for dyslexic children, it just depends on the child. Many dyslexic children are easily overwhelmed, and trying to cover so many different sounds and rules in one list is hard for them. O/G programs will focus their lists on one sound or rule and only gives multiple rules when doing review-with material the child should already know. There are always going to be children who can handle it fine, in fact the author's children were dyslexic. In your case you already own SWR, so there is no reason to invest in anything else unless it becomes an problem.

 

But you have the right idea, take it nice and slow, repeat a lot. Given you are now using two programs, be aware it can cause confusion. Sometimes dyslexic children can't handle multiple things at once, but sometimes a different format will allow them to handle it fine. Other kids don't easily become overwhelmed despite being dyslexic-they have other weaknesses. If they do show signs of being overwhelmed just back of one of them, no big deal.

 

Heather

 

 

Thanks for explaining better Heather!