Fill in the blank question regarding learning ANOTHER LANGUAGE

[stripe]

For those that say kids should learn the language of their heritage, I'm not so sure that should be a must. I really have no idea how learning Polish would have helped me at all.

It may not be a "must." But some parents want to raise their kids to be bilingual in their heritage language(s), or the child wants to learn, so I think that should have value over some other language, because of the personal connection to the child.

[SonshineLearner]

I'd like for my son to learn English (mother tongue) Latin, Chinese ( at least a few words to make it more possible for him to learn it when he gets older) and Spanish.

 

Carrie:-)

[Laura Corin]

From what I've read online (anecdotes in various places) it seems that the Chinese don't want to speak Chinese to us, they want to speak English. I've read about businessmen having to pretend their Chinese was worse that it was just to get along! If that's the situation, there are going to be better ways for most of us to spend our time, yes?

 

Rosie

 

I have found that, in general, Chinese in China are embarrassed about their English and are overjoyed to drop into Chinese. It was a very welcoming culture to learn a language in: everyone was very encouraging.

 

Laura

[Rosie_0801]

I taught English at an English Language school in Japan for many years. It was very common for people to come and sign up to learn/refresh their English for 3 months before they went to an English speaking country for vacation. In the U.S. it is more common for us to ask, will the locals be able to understand English than it is for us to learn the local language before going for vacation.

I think it is a different situation. In your situation, the Japanese have already studied English and want to refresh. A monolingual American (or anyone else) can not realistically expect to pick up a language, especially a difficult one, in the three months before they go on holiday.

 

Even if someone is going to be living in the country but in an English speaking job or compound, they still tend to expect to get on in English instead of learning the local language. I think it shows respect for the local culture that you are teaching bahasa in your school.

I can understand hoping you can get by in English, but I would have thought if you are going to actually live somewhere, you'd want to make some attempt to learn the language. Perhaps it depends how often you move? It would be exhausting to be trying to pick up a new language every couple of years, I would think. Plus, one can't devote themselves to study full time if they are also working and running a house.

 

Rosie- not likely to find out by direct experience...

[Rosie_0801]

I have found that, in general, Chinese in China are embarrassed about their English and are overjoyed to drop into Chinese. It was a very welcoming culture to learn a language in: everyone was very encouraging.

 

Laura

 

That is nice to hear :) I think if I had people mangling my language in the way I would imagine a non-native person would mangle the tones, I'd probably want to end the experience asap! Heheh. What sort of factors do you think would have led to the anecdotes I'd read, then? Maybe it is only in business that Chinese would rather speak English? Maybe it depends on the nationality of the person they are speaking to? I studied Cross Cultural Communication as a linguistics subject at uni. It was so interesting! Many of the practical examples given were about the Chinese, since the lecturer was Chinese. It was the sort of subject that made a semester seem to short.

 

:)

Rosie

[Guest Virginia Dawn]

All children should learn at least one language in addition to their native tongue. What that language is depends entirely on what's useful for that children, but I think almost anyone who is a child right now would benefit from learning English well.

 

I think learning Bahasa in Malaysia is completely logical and worthwhile. Any language study is worthwhile, even if it turns out to be a language you never hear again after you leave the country. Personally, if we were living in Malaysia, I would think it was weird that Spanish was offered for children. Unless there is some sort of Latino community in Malaysia that I've never heard of.

 

I totally agree with this.

 

When we are talking "shoulds" I think we also need to consider practicality and parental ability to supply resources. So I would go with the above for the minumum requirement. Even though the op is referring to an institutional setting, I'm thinking about homeschool parents.

Edited November 21, 2009 by Virginia Dawn

[Laura Corin]

What sort of factors do you think would have led to the anecdotes I'd read, then? Maybe it is only in business that Chinese would rather speak English?

 

If a Western person flies in to have some meetings with high-level executives, then it's likely that the Chinese people will speak better English than the Westerner speaks Chinese. In that situation, English will be the natural language. If, however, you live in China, become really fluent (perhaps after years of language study in your own country) then walk confidently into a meeting, I think people will be happy to talk in Chinese. Plus, speaking Chinese to everyone in lower levels in the company will go over really, really well.

 

Husband worked for a while researching Chinese companies for overseas investors. When you are in the middle of nowhere, checking that the claimed new factory actually exists, English just won't cut it. You'll be lucky if anyone speaks Mandarin, let alone English.

 

Laura

[Jean in Newcastle]

I think it is a different situation. In your situation, the Japanese have already studied English and want to refresh. A monolingual American (or anyone else) can not realistically expect to pick up a language, especially a difficult one, in the three months before they go on holiday.

 

Good point. English is required for Jr. High and High school.

 

I can understand hoping you can get by in English, but I would have thought if you are going to actually live somewhere, you'd want to make some attempt to learn the language.

 

 

That's the thing. You don't have to be fluent or even semi-fluent. Foreigners who have made at least a little effort to learn a few appropriate phrases of the language are praised up and down. The Japanese are very kind to English speakers and love to practice their English but there is some resentment of the "Ugly Foreigner". You should hear the "Ugly Foreigner" jokes. It is a whole category (sort of like the light bulb jokes). (And no, most foreigners don't hear them. I just fit into the culture well enough that people would actually forget that I was a foreigner.)

[Nan in Mass]

Yes, please elaborate on how this is done!

[Nan in Mass]

I've found this (but backwards) with the French. Everyone here in the US says the French won't speak English to you, even when they can, but I have found that if you start off struggling along in French, as soon as they realize that their English is better than your French, they are happy to switch to English. (Just a generality, of course.)

-Nan

[mirth]

It's difficult to decide since so much depends on your own culture, the culture where you live and even your child's possible future plans.

 

So if you wanted your children to learn a language (other than English) that will be the most useful to them in their future and their future is wide open, what would that language be?

 

I can see that you are putting a lot of thought into the parents' request for middle schoolers' language at your school. To add to your deliberations, I confess that I see a big difference between language as a utility and language as a cultural artifact.

 

In Ireland (or is it N. Ireland?), you must learn Gaelic if you want to attend university there. Is Gaelic particularly useful in business these days? Probably not very. But the point is preservation of culture.

 

Even as I have pursued Chinese instruction for my kids, the next question became: which written version of Chinese? Simplified or Traditional? If you are looking to ride the biggest wave, then Simplified is the only one that makes sense. Mainland China uses it (as does Singapore and Malaysia), but Hong Kong, Taiwan, and Macau do not. I see more beauty and sensibility in Traditional form (and I see ample politics, both overt and tacit, in Simplified form) which I know in my heart will be lost to my kids. If it were possible I would've insisted on Trad written instruction for the kids. But in my area, such instruction does not exist. Truthfully, I do not have as strong an opinion on this matter as I sound to have. It's just that it would've been nice had my opinion mattered at all in a decision which manifests itself as hundred of hours in my kids' lives.

 

So I might suggest you poll the parents and see what they prefer. Perhaps the expat Korean parents, unlike the Malaysian ones, will not prefer bahasa, but maybe they would prefer Korean to Mandarin?

[Rosie_0801]

That's the thing. You don't have to be fluent or even semi-fluent. Foreigners who have made at least a little effort to learn a few appropriate phrases of the language are praised up and down. The Japanese are very kind to English speakers and love to practice their English but there is some resentment of the "Ugly Foreigner". You should hear the "Ugly Foreigner" jokes. It is a whole category (sort of like the light bulb jokes). (And no, most foreigners don't hear them. I just fit into the culture well enough that people would actually forget that I was a foreigner.)

 

Oh I get this. Where I come from it is "hearing people" jokes. Fortunately I'm not "that sort" of hearing person. You know you are deep in it when you (the hearing person) makes hearing people jokes. ;)

 

My sole experience outside my country was three weeks in Poland. Older middle aged women, who seem to be the vast majority of people you encounter as they staff all the museums and train stations, were the hardest to communicate with. My attempts to communicate without English were not appreciated by those who spoke English or the ones who didn't! Everyone else was perfectly nice though. Fun experience.

 

Rosie

[Rosie_0801]

So I might suggest you poll the parents and see what they prefer. Perhaps the expat Korean parents, unlike the Malaysian ones, will not prefer bahasa, but maybe they would prefer Korean to Mandarin?

 

Perhaps whoever loses out will appreciate a list of resources they could use at home. Most people with public schooled kids don't think of looking for the sort of info homeschoolers search out, perhaps?

 

Rosie

[Heather in Neverland]

I can see that you are putting a lot of thought into the parents' request for middle schoolers' language at your school. To add to your deliberations, I confess that I see a big difference between language as a utility and language as a cultural artifact.

 

So I might suggest you poll the parents and see what they prefer. Perhaps the expat Korean parents, unlike the Malaysian ones, will not prefer bahasa, but maybe they would prefer Korean to Mandarin?

 

Another issue is how quickly the demographics of this area and our school are changing and, again, the whole transience issue. In Penang, specifically, which is very different than mainland Malaysia, there are 3 dominant cultures: Malaysians, Chinese, and Indian...almost equal parts. So you hear all of those groups' native language but they also speak English and it is easy to live in Penang and know only English.

 

Because of this, it is also a great place to send your child if you want them to learn English better. We do not take children who have zero English...they have to be at a certain fluency rate based on testing. So most of the students who come to us, come so they can get better.

 

So our school is divided up like this:

 

Korean students who come here for a few years, get better at english, then go back to Korea.

 

Missionary kids (usually North American English-speaking)

 

Business kids (parents are transferred here on business, usually North American English-speaking)

 

Staff kids (North American, English-speaking)

 

So in terms of our "stakeholders" the Koreans already speak Korean fluently, are usually here short-term and to learn English so they probably don't need or want Korean lessons?

 

Our missionary and staff kids are looking at language classes more in both present and future terms (how can they use a second langauge in their current ministry? future goals?). So they have more reason to learn bahasa.

 

Business kids are looking at the future use of language only because they know they are only here temporarily. So they are not all that interested in bahasa.

 

To top it off, even though there is a high CHinese population on the island, they are not represented in our school (they have their own schools) AND the Chinese here do not really speak Mandarin, they speak Hokkien or Cantonese!

 

AHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!! Diversity is starting to give me a migraine. :tongue_smilie:

 

 

Then, of course, I have my own selfish motives for this whole thread in that I am trying to decide what is best to teach my OWN children.

[Rosie_0801]

I was mooching through the UN agency websites this morning and boy, are there a lot of them! The most frequently required languages were English and French.

 

Rosie

[mama2cntrykids]

I haven't read all the responses, BUT, I will say, for *my* children, it will be English, Spanish and I'm now seriously considering Latin.