I don't think I'll *ever* be able to grade other people's writing.

[Colleen]

This is becoming a real issue for me ~ my inability to objectively grade writing, offer advice, etc. My oldest is using Apologia's Jump In writing program this year, and they do offer good examples of how to grade. It's all well and good in theory, but in practice, I falter. I have three of my son's most recent papers to go over right now and I'm resisting tooth and nail. Among other things, I'm the type who copy edits everything as I read so I'm wary of being hyper-critical. My friend Julie Bogart, of Bravewriter, is so gifted in this department, and I do want my guys to take a class through BW at some point. But I'd still like to be able to master the art of grading/reviewing writing. Can those of you who have made progress in thiss department share your thoughts? Thanks.

[Karen in CO]

I am better if the assignment has a checklist or guidelines so that I have a place to start. I also do better if he and I sit together to review it. We note how well he followed the guidelines and mark any places that he can improve. He finds areas to improve that I wouldn't have suggested. I think that instead of getting an A or a B, that he benefits from getting an outside opinion.

 

I have to admit that I have enrolled him in three online writing classes from three different companies. It was good for me to see how others viewed his writing, how they offered criticism, and how they helped him to improve. I would read his assignments, make my own notes about them then review the comments he received.

 

Good luck.

[Chris in CA]

Hi Colleen,

I commiserate with you. We are in the middle of Jump In and so far what I have done is concentrate on the process that they have been taught, and for the most part try to not make a big deal out of punctuation, grammar or spelling. I do point out some of these errors, but concentrate on the key points, like does it have an opening thesis statement that follows the directions, do the paragraphs each have a new point, does the conclusion follow the directions. I too, have to be careful about over-correcting. It's funny but my youngest did her first paragraph paper without any punctuation at all. When I asked her about the 3 paragraph run on sentence, she said, "Well mommy, you always change what I do anyways so I thought I should just not bother" that taught me a bit about my expectations and sticking to the major ideas presented.

btw please ignore my grammar, spelling, etc. it's late : )

Sigh -

hth

Chris

[Peek a Boo]

I swear by the detailed checklists in Writeshop. The extensive editing samples of so many types of writing and subjects help too. Go check out the sample pages if you haven't already. The first writing assignment is easy peasy, but it's mostly cuz you're both learning The System of editing. Look at how they walk you through the editing process --that's the clencher for me. I had reservations about the writing topics, but the editing help and teacher manual have been WORTH IT.

 

good luck!

[8filltheheart]

The method that works the best for us is guided discussion.

 

First, I sit with them and read it out loud to them exactly how they have written it. Sometimes hearing it makes a huge impact b/c many times they read what they think they wrote vs. what they actually wrote.

 

After that, I read it with them again and stop at obvious mistakes. Usually if I simply ask, "Do you see a problem here?" they can. (everything from capitalization, punctuation, grammar, etc. I always state the rule or discuss the problem with them even if they answered the question b/c the mistake was still there and they didn't catch it prior to turning it in.)

 

The next step is dealing with stylistic issues. How can they make it more interesting/concise/better argument,etc.? How I deal with this depends on age and ability. With older kids, we look at the overall essay. Was their argument logical and progressive? Did they stay on topic or bring in useless info? Then we work our way down to more specific details..... we go sentence by sentence and I ask them about active vs passive verbs, sentence structure, etc.

 

I guess I attempt to use a Socratic method where really it is their responsibility to identify and improve the paper with guidance vs. a disconnect between their writing and someone else telling them what is wrong. In my mind that is actually making it too easy. They are "freed" from the step actually having to spot the weaknesses. My teaching method is that being able to critique your own writing is the key to improving it.

 

Does that help?

[Nan in Mass]

Can you just discuss it with them and have them fix a few things and move on?

 

I usually begin by having them read the paper aloud to themselves. Then they read it aloud to me. There are usually lots of pauses as they fix things. Then I try to say somethings I like about it. Then we do it again with me reading it to them and them thinking about how it sounds. They usually fix a few more things. Then I ask what they think they could fix. We look for the big things like whether the topic sentence matches the rest of the paragraph, whether things flow smoothly, whether there are thin patches that need more details or places with a disproportionate number. By then, they've usually fixed the exact wording of things to their satisfaction. I seldom comment on that because they choose their words carefully and hate it when I do. Last, I take the paper and reread it to myself while they watch and mark up all the "little things". This is where I fix misspellings and punctuation. When they were young, I only corrected one sort of thing so they wouldn't get discouraged. They go away and fix those things and we are done. I don't always do all these steps with every paper, but I try to do at least a few of them. I emphasize fixing things from big to little, so as not to waste time. First we do the paragraphs, then the sentences, and last the little stuff like punctuation. No sense fixing the punctuation only to go on and scratch a whole paragraph.

 

If you really need to grade, perhaps you could find a writing rubric that you like and just give it to your child to fill out after you've gone over it together?

 

-Nan, who can't believe she's offering advice on writing, when she hates it so much

[Colleen]

I have to admit that I have enrolled him in three online writing classes from three different companies. It was good for me to see how others viewed his writing, how they offered criticism, and how they helped him to improve. I would read his assignments, make my own notes about them then review the comments he received.

 

That would be helpful. I once asked my friend Julie (mentioned earlier) to review a short piece he wrote. She noted a few things he'll want to work on in the coming years, but what I appreciated in particular was her positive approach. She highlighted ~ with enthusiasm ~ little things that I would have never commented on. It was a good lesson for me. That makes sense to stay involved in their writing assignments even when they're taking an online course. Thanks for your reply, Karen!

[Jean in Wisc]

I sit down with the paper and the kid and go through it. Sometimes we sit at the computer.

 

I read it out loud and give comments about it as I read. The 1st time through, I catch the grammar, punctuation, etc. and major problems. If he has a lot of these, I may send him off to correct them for the next day. No grade.

 

Then we move on. I read it again. I look for good paragraph formation. I look to see if it makes sense to me. If I can't understand an area, I start asking what it means. Then I circle it and tell him to change it so that I can understand it. No grade.

 

I check to see if he answered the question or did what the assignment required--I just ask myself, "Is this what I expected?" If not, I tell him what I like and don't like and send them back to rework it. No grade.

 

We keep going over it until I decide that neither of us wants to see it again...and then we move to the next assignment.

 

This is when I grade.

 

If the child has done all the work, and if the final draft really is great--then he gets a good grade. If he drags his feet and won't learn, the grade reflects it.

 

If he struggles in a certain area (sentence structure, grammar, paragraph formation), I find materials that teach what is needed and we go on from there. We always build upon what he knows so that we are never neck deep in composition assignments.

 

In other words, we focus on an area that the child struggles, using materials that helps him learn what he needs to learn. If he learns it, he gets an A.

 

We do this from about 3rd grade to 12th grade...and so far, they all have learned to write a "smokin' hot essay".

 

FWIW.

 

(I am going to hit submit without proofing. LOL! Aren't I a good writer! :auto:

[Colleen]

I swear by the detailed checklists in Writeshop.

 

Jump In does have checklists, too, and that's been useful. I like the program overall. I've heard many good things about Writeshop, too. Jump In hasn't had a great deal of info yet to help the student with editing; it'll be helpful when he gets into that more. Thanks, Peek.

[Tami]

but I have decided to farm this out with my rising 6th grader. It's not worth the stress! This is the first subject that I feel utterly hopeless in teaching. I'm sure there will be more to come, though. :willy_nilly:

 

We are looking at Home2Teach or Bravewriter classes. Anyway, I am in the same boat.

[Colleen]

what I have done is concentrate on the process that they have been taught, and for the most part try to not make a big deal out of punctuation, grammar or spelling. I do point out some of these errors, but concentrate on the key points, like does it have an opening thesis statement that follows the directions, do the paragraphs each have a new point, does the conclusion follow the directions.

 

I agree about not dwelling on the grammatical elements, etc, although that's really not an issue. He's good to go in that department. Helping him with the stylistic issues is pretty much my focus, but of course you want to guide them without being too intrusive, kwim? Thanks for posting, Chris!

[Chris in VA]

I tried and failed, and then put off any writing--not a recommended course of action. It sounds like you've gotten great advice. I farmed ds out to Write at Home and don't feel a bit bad about it.

Perhaps it would help if someone came alongside you. You could take dc's paper to this mentor with the corrections you would make, and then compare how the mentor would do it. Kinda get tutored in tutoring! lol

[Colleen]

I guess I attempt to use a Socratic method where really it is their responsibility to identify and improve the paper with guidance vs. a disconnect between their writing and someone else telling them what is wrong. In my mind that is actually making it too easy. They are "freed" from the step actually having to spot the weaknesses. My teaching method is that being able to critique your own writing is the key to improving it.Does that help?

 

Yes and no. This is my goal, too, and we do discuss his work together. The last thing I'd do is simply put a grade on a paper and hand it back to him. I aim to encourage him to improve his own work without my voice dictating the details. But at this stage, there's only so far he goes in that direction...

[Colleen]

Can you just discuss it with them and have them fix a few things and move on?

 

This is in essence what I've been doing. I probably didn't express myself well in my first post, because I don't want to imply that my primary goal is assigning a grade. I do have him read it aloud; I've not done the reverse (me reading it aloud to him) but I like that idea.

 

Then I ask what they think they could fix.

 

And what if they don't think there's anything they could fix, although you may feel otherwise? Maybe what I need to do is just get to a point wherein I'm okay with that.;)

[Colleen]

I've told Julie for years that I'm going to sign my oldest up for a BW class; I may just do that next fall. I've no doubt her new manual, Help for High Schoolers, is excellent as well.

[Colleen]

Perhaps it would help if someone came alongside you. You could take dc's paper to this mentor with the corrections you would make, and then compare how the mentor would do it. Kinda get tutored in tutoring! lol

 

Indeed! I mentioned in a separate post that I did have my friend Julie, of Bravewriter, critique a piece of my son's writing and seeing how she came at it, what she had to say, was extremely helpful. Now if only she lived next door to me...:D

[Colleen]

Pardon me; my brain is slightly addled at the moment. When you wrote, "Then don't" in your subject line, Jean, did you mean, "Don't grade"? As I just mentioned in a reply to Nan, I didn't mean to imply assigning a grade was of absolute importance to me. It's the whole process of going over his work with him and offering constructive criticism without inserting myself in his writing too much. Thanks for your reply; it's good to hear how others tackle the process!:)

[Nan in Mass]

I usually ask a few prompting questions like, "Do you think this paragraph is the same level of detail as that one? Do you think this is clear enough?" Often, mine say yes and explain why they did it that way and I leave it at that. Or sometimes they say, "Now that you've pointed it out..." I mostly am at the stage of trying to get mine to write LOTS so I'm not too picky about things.

[Jean in Wisc]

Pardon me; my brain is slightly addled at the moment. When you wrote, "Then don't" in your subject line, Jean, did you mean, "Don't grade"? As I just mentioned in a reply to Nan, I didn't mean to imply assigning a grade was of absolute importance to me. It's the whole process of going over his work with him and offering constructive criticism without inserting myself in his writing too much. Thanks for your reply; it's good to hear how others tackle the process!:)

 

My brain is usually addled. :confused:

 

Sigh.

 

I didn't read all the posts. I was basically saying that the grading part is really not nearly important as their writing and being given feedback.

 

I know that I sometimes push to change areas that makes it "me" and not "them"--the inserting myself too much type of thing. It is a dance, isn't it? At times we lead and they follow; other times we must allow them to take the lead. When I grade their work with them--right there when they can participating in the corrections, it helps me to keep a bit more of the balance--corrections but still theirs.

 

Does that make any more sense?

[Halftime Hope]

I swear by the detailed checklists in Writeshop. The extensive editing samples of so many types of writing and subjects help too. Go check out the sample pages if you haven't already. The first writing assignment is easy peasy, but it's mostly cuz you're both learning The System of editing. Look at how they walk you through the editing process --that's the clencher for me. I had reservations about the writing topics, but the editing help and teacher manual have been WORTH IT.

 

good luck!

 

nt

[Elm in NJ]

Home2teach starts March 31st and my stress level has drastically improved. :D

 

Elmeryl

[SallyMac]

It is terribly hard for me to assess and grade my ds's essays as a lot of the homeschool curriculum wasn't really teaching him a step-by-step method he needed and was holding him back requiring him to hyper focus on sentence writing and usually never requiring more than a paragraph at a time. He is not a natural writer and my occupation was writing full-time before he was born, so it comes naturally to me. Very frustrating when you have to grade someone it doesn't come naturally to. When ds son was just starting to write essays, I found myself injecting too much (ideas and wording) into his writing and overediting in a critical fashion. This only paralyzed him further. Then I found a book which gave step-by-step instructions (the title escapes me..."Writing Step-by-Step" or something like that). This gave him boxes that guided him...in the intro box was the essay prompt/state your thesis opinion, 2nd box: state first reason why and prove with facts, experiences, etc.; 3rd box: state second reason/prove; 4th box: 3rd reason; 5th box: conclusion. We started using this method with topics he was passionate about and as he got the formula down the topics became more complex, less familiar to him. I use this method today so that it seems less personal to him. I simply say read me your thesis (and where is it in the essay); what is your reason and proof. I always write the positive comments first with specific comments, i.e. "well said", "intelligent point", "great quote or comparison". Then we go on to the critical which I usually try to frame with a question. DS is a bit dysgraphic so he doesn't always see his spelling mistakes or omitted words. The best method is for them to read it out loud, which mine usually moans and groans about, but it is the only way he catches his editing mistakes. BTW, ds also used Writeshop. We loved it and it is good for late elementary/early middle school agish. But I think high school level requires much, much more that WriteShop expects.

[Wildiris]

Hi,

 

I posted this the other day, but I'll repost because I think you might find it useful.

 

Diagnosing Problems:

http://www.dartmouth.edu/~writing/materials/tutor/methods/diagnose.shtml

 

Follow the other links at the top of the page to find more information about responding to student papers.

 

HTH,

Wildiris

[Nan in Mass]

This is great! Thank you!

[Jan P.]

I haven't had time to read all of the other posts, but this is what I have done in the past. I used a rubric to grade my ds's writing. Now, I would make two copies of the rubric -- one for me and one for my dh. We would both grade ds's writing, and then I would average the two grades. Now if I thought my dh was too terribly hard on something that I hadn't taught my ds, then I would take that into account. If your dh can't grade the paper, then have another homeschool mom or teacher friend grade the paper. I am fortunate that my dh taught at the U.S. Naval Supply Corp School, and he was the Public Affairs officer at the same school which entailed much writing.

 

I have found out that I was probably harder on my ds than my dh. I tend to be a red ink kind of gal.

 

If I can grade a writing paper, then practically anyone can!!!