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Another desperate mom...


sahm99
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Okay...here it comes...the post I should probably have written two years ago...

 

We started homeschooling a little over two years ago. Ds was at a private school at the time...and it was hard...:001_huh:

He is a very sweet kid, but his concentration span is...well, I can't even find a word... It's just not there.at.all!!! On top of that, he is interested and passionate about anything...but school:tongue_smilie:.

It was and is difficult.

Every afternoon, after school, I had to literally re-do the whole day with him, in order to keep him working at an acceptable level for this highly academic school. We all suffered a lot - him (barely 7 at the time!), me, family-life, etc.

 

This situation played a huge role in our decision to homeschool.

 

While lots of things have evolved (for the better) since then, some are just as bad and draining.

Ds still has huge issues with concentration. It can, at times, be so bad that, if I didn't know better, I would think he was seriously challenged (e.g. 35:5=...2!!! / 21-3=...19!!!!! - and then needing several!!! attempts before getting it right:eek:). And this is coming from a boy who is doing his Horizons 4th grade math successfully (and working fine in all his 4th grade courses)!!!

 

I am sure, that in a different environment, the diagnosis of ADD would have popped up, with the suggestion for medication.

The latter is something dh and I are not willing to consider.

 

The second, different, but certainly related issue, is his incapacity to work independently... He is like a puppy, needing constant hand-holding and adult supervision (read: ME) while doing his work.

It is literally driving me insane.

AFTER having gone through his lesson with him, and while he is supposed to do his independent work, he will still literally come every two minutes - to ask something (because he didn't pay attention during my explanations), to show me something, to bother his sisters, to whatever...anything that will get him (momentarily) away from his work...

 

I really do not mind explaining again and again, to a kid who tries to understand! But with ds it is a different thing: he just doesn't listen...or/and is just too lazy to work on anything that doesn't come easily!

 

The perspective of this not changing really scares me!!!

 

And, the again, ds is such a sweet eager boy in so many areas... I am just at a loss about how to deal with this one child alone, eating up more of my time than the other three together:confused1:...

 

What I am asking for, cannot be that unreasonable, as even his younger sister works much more responsibly and independently than him!

It drives me up the wall, to see this lack of caring about school/studying in ds!

 

Any advice, suggestion...reassurance would do me good!

 

Thank you so much for reading so far!

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Is there any way you could get him evaluated? Sometimes kids seem like they are uninterested when in fact they are covering up for a learning disorder... And not every issue with concentration is ADD. My daughter has an issue with processing speed that can make her seem like she is not listening or interested in work at times, but there were ways to increase her speed without meds.

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Have you looked at Cathy Duffy's book on 100 top curricula? There is a whole section on Wiggly Willy and the different approaches that work with them. There is also a column of curricula on the market which work best with that type of learning personality.

 

I have a Wiggly Willy also...:glare: Yes, it is a battle. But, my Wiggly Willy was in public school remedial kindergarten - REMEDIAL KINDERGARTEN - Who ever heard of that??? But, then he beat his sister on the Naglieri... :confused:

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I know you said that you are not interested in labeling or meds, but I wanted to share that my biggest regret as a parent, let alone a homeschooler, is not having pursued evaluations and interventions for our 12th grader when he was little.

 

We knew he was ADHD when he was little......no question. However, we did not want him hindered by a label, meds weren't an option, and we thought that we were doing well helping him on our own. He was brilliant, ahead academically, read everything in sight, etc. His behaviors, however, were, ummmmm, challenging.

 

Fast forward to puberty......at age 12 his issues went from being manageable to escalating out of control over a very short period of time. All of a sudden, small things like obsessing with legos, etc, became huge interferences in his daily ability to cope. He couldn't control his emotions and angry rages became frequent daily occurences (this was a child who was extremely tender and had a heart of gold when he was younger.) We had to deal with the explosion of all of his issues simultaneously instead of confronting each one at a young age and giving him the appropriate tools for helping himself cope with yrs of practice prior to the hormonal clash that has literally just about destroyed this young man.

 

He has been in therapy for 5 yrs, mislabeled repeatedly, etc. His future is now limited b/c we missed the peak opportunity for behavioral modification, therapies, etc. His education has suffered. His self-esteem has suffered. Our family, the younger children especially, have suffered. The younger the intervention, the more likely the long term success. If we had not made the decision to "protect" him from labels and meds, his future might have been completely different.

 

Just sharing our experience b/c the behaviors you are describing are not normal for a 9 yo. It doesn't mean that he needs meds. But interventional therapies begun now might make the long term difference between academic success combined with adult success vs. constant struggles, self-esteem issues, and future limited options.

Edited by 8FillTheHeart
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Have you looked at Cathy Duffy's book on 100 top curricula? There is a whole section on Wiggly Willy and the different approaches that work with them. There is also a column of curricula on the market which work best with that type of learning personality.

 

I have a Wiggly Willy also...:glare: Yes, it is a battle. But, my Wiggly Willy was in public school remedial kindergarten - REMEDIAL KINDERGARTEN - Who ever heard of that??? But, then he beat his sister on the Naglieri... :confused:

 

:iagree:

 

This could really help you understand "what to teach him," "the how to teach him," and the "why he is the way he is." If it's nothing more than an energetic little boy who just can't concentrate due to his wound up mind, then she hits a home-run on this topic. She gives great ideas on what curriculum to teach him. While I don't believe that every child should use every type of curriculum that suits them best, I do believe that some kids need certain subjects to be what they are able to hear best in order to learn the most from it.

 

I would at the very least try this. If those things don't work then go to get evaluations done. My littlest brother had severe ADHD. I know it's real. I remember trying to help him do algebra when he wasn't on his meds. He couldn't even do 2 x 2 if I asked, and he is, by far, smarter than me. He just couldn't put any thoughts together. HTH!

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I want to encourage you to at least research ADD or other learning difficulties to see if this is a possiblity. I think having him evaluated would be the best thing for him but if you are not willing to go that route, at least do research to see exactly what you are dealing with. Labels are not always a bad thing. Labels can be used to find a way to teach a child to their strengths. There are teaching strategies that can be used for each specific learning difficulty that can enable a child fly academically rather than be burdened.

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This is a critical period. If you wait, it's going to be much harder to turn around and then you'll be dealing with the hormones too ;). From what you describe, this is something that you need professional advice for.

 

I haven't dealt with this personally, but I've taught homeschool co-op classes long enough to see what this can look like in the middle school years and beyond if parents do or do not deal with this.

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When I used to teach special education, I had many parents in your shoes, who were vehemently opposed to medication. I understand. I wouldn't want my child medicated, either. However, may I humbly suggest you get him professionally evaluated and if he, indeed, does have ADD, then reconsider the medication route. Think of it like glasses. If your son couldn't see well because of poor vision, you would have him evaluated by an optometrist and then have provide him with the proper eyewear. If he had a headache, you would give him an painkiller. ADD is really no different. ADD is not behavioral; it is a medical diagnosis. It is biological and has nothing to do with being lazy, not trying, not wanting to put forth the effort. Sometimes a very little dose of medication is all that is needed to help a child focus. Many a parent has shared with me how their entire home was different once their child had the appropriate medication. I will add, however, that in all cases, behavioral modification strategies were recommended, as well. Specific consequences, clearly laid out, were very effective in helping the children learn appropriate behavior. Medication, without behavioral modification strategies, would be like giving Advil for a broken arm, but not putting a cast on it.:tongue_smilie:

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Did we have 9yo twins seperated at birth?;)

 

My 9yo ds is almost exactly as you described. Sweet, thoughtful, wants to do anything but school work and although never officially diagnosed, exhibits signs of ADHD. He likes to ask me if his math is correct after each problem. :glare: And I have a 12yo and 2yo still at home that need me too.

 

What we've done differently this year that seems to be helping some is this...

 

First, I have discovered that he is a very visual child. He seems to work best when he can *see* his work. I discovered the hard way (after 2 years!!!) that when I read-aloud, he checks out way too often. When I would ask him to narrate or ask specific questions, he would either have it all mixed-up or answer the question with something way off subject. So, I have begun to make sure that whatever I'm reading, albeit a lesson or a devotion etc... he has a copy as well. Additionally, when there isn't a copy or book he can read from, I write down things on a whiteboard for his lesson and have him read it or write it again. And a bonus, he enjoys this in particular.

 

Secondly, we have set up a stack clear drawers next to his desk. He can see when his work is gone from each drawer and the progress he's made. (A very watered-down version of workboxes.)

 

Also, we are finding foods that seem to exacerbate his restlessness and a diet change has helped immensely. (Bye-bye sugar.)

 

And lastly, dh has given him "the speech" about being a young man and doing some of his work independently. He is supposed to be working at his desk unless it is time for one-on-one instruction or he really needs help. He does make his way out to the kitchen table occasionally, but he is just such a social bug and I think he just likes the presence of other people all the time.

 

Hope I've helped some. At the very least, I can sympathize. :grouphug:

Edited by angela&4boys
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You may feel like you are being bombarded with this response, but as another parent of a gifted child with multiple LDs I want to encourage you that a label doesn't need to mean meds. A label however could go a long way in helping you understand how to most effectively teach your ds.

 

Kids who have problems with focus often feel that they are dumb. They will self label and others around them will label them with labels that just aren't true. Finding out what is really going on can be very liberating.

 

We face the LDs as, these are ds's challenges. They don't mean ds isn't smart, it just means some things are harder. They are also not an excuse! They mean he knows what is difficult and so do I and we find ways to work around and overcome it so he can be his personal best.

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I have been in your situation. My dd9 was an somewhat is exactly as you decribed. She was also in a Private school and the teachers just could not teach her. Everyone wanted a label put on her of ADD or ADHD. Now let me say that we do not believe in this diagnosis. That is just our opinion. I began to really pray for an answer. So like you we decided to HS. Cathy Duffy's reviews were a God send. What I began to realize is that there was nothing wrong with dd9 she just processed things in a different way from me. We researched and found programs that taught to her style. She is very hands on and does not process info by listening. She need to be shown. We are into our 6 week of HS and not only ios the problem working itself out with her school work but you can see a big difference in her everyday life. I also have come to understand that not all people are real independent people and my dd9 like the constant company of someone else. Yes this does require more of my time but that's ok if that is what she needs.I wish you the best and I would say that you should explore all your options (add, adhd, nutritional, etc.) and make you own decisions as to what is best for him. Good Luck!!

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The perspective of this not changing really scares me!!!

 

 

This child needs an evaluation. My son was like this. It sounds like ADHD possibly combined with some other LD. You are not doing him any favors by shielding him from being labeled. A diagnosis will help you to get him the targeted help he needs. The situation is unlikely to change without this help.

Edited by EKS
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Your son is my son. The only difference is age. Mine is now 11. At 7 he was diagnosed with ADHD, however the signs were there from a very young age. I kept hoping he would grow out of it. Not so. Now, at 11, I also believe there are some other underlying factors. I am in the midst of having him fully evaluated.

 

We have tried everything from a natural standpoint (Feingold diet, supplements, etc.) and nothing has been effective. We did try medication when he was a bit younger but there were no positive effects at the time. Having said that, I am waiting for a full diagnosis to make that determination once again. I agree with Cadam's comments regarding medication. Although medicating is not something I take lightly I will not close my mind to it in the same way I would not if my son has some other medical condition.

 

I wish you the very best with your son and hope you find the answers you are seeking soon.

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There are many triggers for the symptoms of ADHD so I hope you are seeing an expert in this field. Regarding Feingold, it is really important that you implement it correctly and strictly. I learned the hard way that I didn't but once I decided to do it by the book, we got great success and we able to get off the medication. He's used it successfully for quite a few years. Be sure to check out the support group: Feingold Association. There website is really informative too. www.feingold.org My best to your family.

 

 

Your son is my son. The only difference is age. Mine is now 11. At 7 he was diagnosed with ADHD, however the signs were there from a very young age. I kept hoping he would grow out of it. Not so. Now, at 11, I also believe there are some other underlying factors. I am in the midst of having him fully evaluated.

 

We have tried everything from a natural standpoint (Feingold diet, supplements, etc.) and nothing has been effective. We did try medication when he was a bit younger but there were no positive effects at the time. Having said that, I am waiting for a full diagnosis to make that determination once again. I agree with Cadam's comments regarding medication. Although medicating is not something I take lightly I will not close my mind to it in the same way I would not if my son has some other medical condition.

 

I wish you the very best with your son and hope you find the answers you are seeking soon.

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Perhaps it is a family dynamic combined with him just being a normal boy who cannot sit still and school is all about, well, sitting still and listening. I heard about a remarkable teacher with a classroom of all boys who would take them outside and walk around the block while talking and teaching. They boys all did great with this teacher because he understood testosterone. It's not that mommies don't know their babies more than anybody, but I think that is a downfall of both HS and PS--sometimes boys just need it coming from another man, or done by someone who can do it in a way that is more about dealing with the "male" in them instead of the "little boy" in them.

 

I would fight before I labeled or put my kids on meds--especially my son. My DD9 is just like you describe and it turned out to be her photographic memory and her passive-agressive personality. Also, a divorce she was still reeling over, and it all combined to develop these "not listening" HABITS, that were at one time her way of dealing with everything and now are still here because she is comfortable and doesn't want to learn a new way of fighting mom.

 

I good CHILD psychologist, not a family doc, will help and understand all this. If the doc labels and suggests meds before a month of talking to you about it to really understand the family dynamic as well as his personalilty, then run and get another doc because that is not what you are paying $200/hr for. It takes at least 3 appointments to consider all the possibilities. You can call the local University Psyche dept and get a good grad student who will be supervised by the more experienced docs to get in their hours to get their degrees. They do it for free or for a small fee, usually for free. So if you just cannot afford it check into it.

 

Here in Utah they have a clinic associated with the University and located up on the campus of the University so that might give you a clue where to start, to find a really good doc that won't just write a scrip and make an easy buck off a desperate parent.

 

I've been where you are, it's do-able, don't give up. It may just take some family counseling all of you together. Follow your mommy instincts!

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1. Give him a piece of cheese about 1/2 hour before starting the tougher 'skills' classes. Cheese is brain food. If he is not allergic to it, it should settle his blood sugar a bit and help him focus. He really does need that protein, and at his age unless he is obese he needs the fat for brain development as well.

2. Make him either run laps around the house (5 or 6) or jump on a mini trampoline (I hate those, but the ones with the handles seem reasonably safe) for 2 minutes in between subjects. That shakes off the kinesthetic urges and hooks his brain in gear. Bonus for the tramp--if he is shouting out memory work while jumping, he will probably remember it better.

3. Give him 1/2 cup of coffee before you start. I know that sounds ridiculous, but it's medically appropriate for ADHD. The drug treatments for ADHD are stimulents. The working theory is that ADHD brains have their impulse control 'asleep' most of the time. Stimulents wake up that control part, which, paradoxically, calms the student down quite a bit because the control part is in, well, control! It is common for ADHD students to self-medicate with caffiene, which works much the same way but is less 'medical' than, say, Ritulin. Also, if he gets much MORE wired and OC with coffee, then you have a clue that he might not actually benefit from the standard drugs. Useful info to bring to an evaluation.

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Thank you all so much for taking the time to reply!

Your thoughts are so helpful for me - I don't really know where else I could turn...without the very first suggestion being to put ds into school...like that being the miracle cure:001_huh:.

 

Today has been much better.

 

I realize that we are in a special situation these days, as I just had our fourth child five weeks ago. We took a LONG break from structured school over the summer, as I was very ill during the pregnancy.

Ds is certainly having a hard time getting back into the groove. He needs and thrives on structure, so the last months were destabilizing for him.

 

I would like to answer to those of you that were wondering about my rejection of getting professional help/labeling/medication.

I very much respect any parent deciding to go that route. I know that we all try to do the very best for our children and families, and medication might be the answer for some.

I followed my sister closely these last years, struggeling with this same issue for her son, who is just a year younger than ds. She finally decided to go the medication route.

Her son is doing well in school now and his behaviour has improved a lot. Meds are certainly, what will permit him to develop to his full potential...

 

Ds' situation seems different to us.

While he has serious concentration issues, that make (home-) schooling very, VERY "challenging", he does not show any behaviour that would make us doubt our possibilities to deal with this without meds.

He is learning and advancing at an appropriate rhythm.

He is spending hours each day reading...

He is well-behaved and while lacking any enthusiasm for school (well, make that: "trying to avoid it at almost ANY cost") he has never even close to refused himself when called to study.

 

Teaching this ds is hard...very hard!

But I know, that the environment we can provide at home, allows him (for the time being) to advance in his studies without being medicated.

While this is the case, I want us to explore every possibility to deal with his learning issues in other ways...

 

I might be naive, and your sharing your regrets about not having medicated (earlier) certainly make me wonder...but I am deep down convinced that time will help ds - just like it did for dh 35 years ago;).

 

My struggle does not so much stem from my fear about ds' ultimate development and future (even though I do have these thoughts at times...see my post from yesterday...), but rather my difficulties, to deal with the challenge, that intructing this son implies...

I feel overwhelmed and frustrated regularly.

I am tired of hitting a wall once again.

I have reactions I am not proud of.

 

...just leaning back, and sitting it out, are not some of my qualities:lol:...and dealing with a very "boyish boy" is very hard for me.

So, I guess, I really am asking: How am I supposed to survive the next years?!?:scared:

 

Thank you, again, for reading this far!

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Please understand I say this gently and with compassion, not judgment. When I read your posts, I see glaring indications that your son would greatly benefit from a professional evaluation and possibly meds. You obviously disagree and I hear what you are saying, but I guess I do not understand how it could be better to go through years of your son struggling with concentration and independent work habits, coupled with your being frustrated and wondering how you'll survive. To me, it looks like unnecessary suffering. Why put your son, or you, through that? He may be able to advance in his studies, but if that happens only with daily struggles on both of your parts, is it worth the conflict? Even if you don't want medication, why not just get a professional evaluation from someone who is an expert in the field, so you know exactly with what you are dealing. Getting the evaluation won't commit you to medications or any other actions; it will just give you information with which to work. Plus, if you have a good evaluator, they will give you numerous strategies to use with your son. I remember some of the evaluations my students had from a local hospital. The parents would get a 1/2" -1" thick packet back, with a thorough description of the child's learning style and (non-medication) intervention strategies.

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Thanks for your post!

...there are serveral reasons that make me hesitant about an evaluation:

First, I would like to avoid ds to perceive himself as being "off"...needing to be checked...

Secondly, we are in Europe, and the way evaluations and possibly diagnosis (and maybe meds..) are dealt with in this country, is very different from the States. We would be very unlikely to find someone specialized in ADHD, and even ready to do a thorough evaluation over a time-period...

And, on top of that, we would most certainly end up with someone strongly questioning our decision to homeschool - something, even though legal, totally unheard of around here...and, accordingly, strongly judged as "freaky" by a huge majority:001_huh:. I wouldn't at all expect to end up with someone supplying us with constructive input...

Lastly, given our conviction about not considering drugs (at this point...?), I frankly don't see the need, really...

 

Again, I might be naive, but having a label would probably not change the way we are dealing with ds' concentration issues...

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Please understand I say this gently and with compassion, not judgment. When I read your posts, I see glaring indications that your son would greatly benefit from a professional evaluation and possibly meds. You obviously disagree and I hear what you are saying, but I guess I do not understand how it could be better to go through years of your son struggling with concentration and independent work habits, coupled with your being frustrated and wondering how you'll survive. To me, it looks like unnecessary suffering. Why put your son, or you, through that? He may be able to advance in his studies, but if that happens only with daily struggles on both of your parts, is it worth the conflict? Even if you don't want medication, why not just get a professional evaluation from someone who is an expert in the field, so you know exactly with what you are dealing. Getting the evaluation won't commit you to medications or any other actions; it will just give you information with which to work. Plus, if you have a good evaluator, they will give you numerous strategies to use with your son. I remember some of the evaluations my students had from a local hospital. The parents would get a 1/2" -1" thick packet back, with a thorough description of the child's learning style and (non-medication) intervention strategies.

 

:iagree: completely.

 

My ds NEVER struggled with academics, ever. Not until a yr ago was school ever an issue. School only became an issue b/c social skill issues as a teenager took over his ability to cope. Being a teenager is hard enough w/o lack of social skills to complicate it.

 

What sort of things can be revealed in an evaluation? Masked problems that can be helped with early intervention.

 

My ds's evaluation revealed his IQ is above average in content/subject areas (109-122%). However, his IQ is in the retarded range (56-59%) for both visual and auditory processing speeds. If we had had access to that information when he was younger, intervention could have occurred that could have aided his processing skills. Not only would that have been beneficial academically, but goodness, his ability to process social issues would be dramatically different than what they currently are. I live daily with the regret of wondering if he could have avoid the pain and suffering he currently endures.

 

Our ds didn't seem "abnormal" when he was younger. He seemed active, silly (as in class clownish), immature, focused on certain activities like building with Legos, etc. He managed social situations OK, but gravitated toward younger kids b/c they liked to play more of what he liked and were more willing to play on his level. Like I wrote in my OP, we felt there weren't serious enough issues to pursue meds or formal evaluations......we "knew" what his issues were and were dealing with them adequately.

 

Unfortunately, we didn't "know." Intelligence can mask a lot. A homeschooling environment can "forgive" a lot. What was quirky at 10, wasn't quite so quirky at 14, etc. The older our ds becomes, the more obvious those quirks are and the more obvious that they are detrimental to his normal functioning.

 

Either evaluations will reveal absolutely nothing to be concerned about other than a normal hyper young boy or they will reveal other underlying issues that can be addressed to help him lead a more normal life. There is no reason not to pursue evaluations b/c they are only information. Nothing is "required" based on what is revealed. The drs aren't going to try to force you to do anything. Honestly, the reverse is the truth. Finding appropriate help is difficult.

 

I wouldn't wish my ds's experience on anyone. Again, as I wrote in my earlier post, intervention at younger ages has the higher rate of success. We missed the best window of opportunity for aiding our ds.

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Thanks for your post!

...there are serveral reasons that make me hesitant about an evaluation:

First, I would like to avoid ds to perceive himself as being "off"...needing to be checked...

Secondly, we are in Europe, and the way evaluations and possibly diagnosis (and maybe meds..) are dealt with in this country, is very different from the States. We would be very unlikely to find someone specialized in ADHD, and even ready to do a thorough evaluation over a time-period...

And, on top of that, we would most certainly end up with someone strongly questioning our decision to homeschool - something, even though legal, totally unheard of around here...and, accordingly, strongly judged as "freaky" by a huge majority:001_huh:. I wouldn't at all expect to end up with someone supplying us with constructive input...

Lastly, given our conviction about not considering drugs (at this point...?), I frankly don't see the need, really...

 

Again, I might be naive, but having a label would probably not change the way we are dealing with ds' concentration issues...

 

I have an ADHD son (bolded and underlined for emphasis!) and I know that for him, the dx gives him an explanation as to why he cannot control his impulses. Otherwise, he would probably be hating on himself because he was never able to do what he was expected to do. It would be hard to feel like you were always coming up short, no matter how hard you tried.

 

The label helps me because I am able to adjust my expectations as well. Now, my son is medicated (best decision I ever made) but those early morning & late evening hours when he is unmedicated are HARD and without the knowledge that he truly cannot help himself, I think I would go crazy.

 

If you are even a little bit open to considering meds, after a full evaluation of course, realize that they can be tried and stopped with no long-term effects. If they work, you know right away. If they don't work, you can adjust dose or just quit. They are very short acting, as short as 4 hours for something like Focalin. I thought I was handling things fine and it took me a year to decide to try meds but once we gave it a go, the difference was so incredible. Now I wonder how on earth I survived.

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There are many triggers for the symptoms of ADHD so I hope you are seeing an expert in this field. Regarding Feingold, it is really important that you implement it correctly and strictly. I learned the hard way that I didn't but once I decided to do it by the book, we got great success and we able to get off the medication. He's used it successfully for quite a few years. Be sure to check out the support group: Feingold Association. There website is really informative too. www.feingold.org My best to your family.

 

 

Just to clarify, I followed the Feingold diet to a "t". The whole family was on board. It did absolutely nothing for my son. We did it for a solid 6 months. I am glad it works for your family but for us it was ineffective.

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