I Know It's Been Asked Before...But, Latin for 3rd Grader

[krw]

Hi Everyone,

 

This will be my first full year of homeschooling DS, 8 and DD, 4. We pulled son out of public school in March so I only HS for 2.5 months before summer. We are now approaching the beginning of a full school year and I've decided to follow the WTM format but am still torn on Latin curriculum.

 

I've read many posts and need advice on a good place to start DS with Latin. He has never taken any type of foreign language before, and I have only taken Spanish in the past.

 

I am looking for a program that will:

 

• Not bore either of us to tears
  
• Not be so frustrating that we argue more than we actually work through the lessons
  
• Be gentle enough for both educator and student new to Latin, but structured enough that we (I plan to learn right along with him) are actually getting the nuts and bolts of Latin grammar and not just a bunch of fluff that won't teach us anything at all
  
• Be a good foundation that we can continue to build upon in the coming years
  
• Is reasonably affordable (not over $100)
  

Based on posts here I've looked at Lively Latin, Galore Park's programs and Song School Latin. Outside of this post I looked at Latin Primer I and LFC A and Prima Latina. I was all set on using LFC A and then got sucked into the Latin curriculum wormhole when I started searching these forums!:lol:

 

I like Classical Academic Press' stuff (what I've read about them anyway) but is SSL too basic for an 8-year-old or is it just right? OR will LFC A be too much without any type of prep or intro to Latin, or will it be just right? I've read that it moves quickly and without any former intro to Latin I'm wondering if that will be an issue?

 

AND, considering all of the great comments on Lively Latin - is printing out all of the lessons, puzzles, materials, etc. too much of a chore or is it really not a big deal?

 

Please help me emerge from this Latin curriculum wormhole I seem to have thrown myself in! Thanks.

 

krw

[krw]

Christina,

 

Thanks for the input. I was worried about SSL being too young for him. I'll go through the LL site again and re-read. LL comes with audio chants too, right?

 

krw

[Melissa B]

I've never seen LFC, but

 

Song School Latin would be fluff. (But it is fun and all of my kids can sing the songs.)

Prima Latina is often considered basic, but boring. I sold it without using it.

I found Galore Park's Latin Prep to move too quickly for an 8 year old and it can be expensive when you add in the cost of audio.

My dds loved Lively Latin. They went through LL1 when they were 7 and 9. Personally, I think 8 would be the perfect age for that curriculum.

[Tutor]

My ds8 is using SSL this year and loves it. We are trying to work on his handwriting, so a curriculum with lots of writing was out for us. SSL is nice for us because it is lots of singing and is not overwhelming in the writing department.

[krw]

Does LP offer sentence diagramming like LL?

 

I've been using songs for multiplication just casually in the car and ds thinks they're silly, but dd4 loves them. SSL may not be a good fit for him.

 

Thanks for the feedback ladies!

 

krw

[HSMom2One]

We started out with Prima Latina and dd got bored very quickly. The chants were fun at first, but the whole thing is rather drab in appearance and the presentation. So then we switched to LFC and she suddenly discovered that learning Latin was fun.

 

We buy the mastery bundle which includes and activity book with fun games, DVD instruction (a must for me since I've never studies Latin), CD's with chants, a reading book in Latin for midway through the book and beyond, and of course the main Primer workbook. DD is getting very strong with her understanding of Latin and I am very amazed at how it has come together for her. She is actually ahead of me and often sits me down and teaches me!

 

Blessings,

Lucinda

[krw]

Thanks Lucinda. I'm printing out the table of contents for LP1, LFC-A and LL to compare and will go from there. I'll be glad when I get this figured out!:willy_nilly:

 

krw

[TracyR]

I don't think Song School Latin would be too boring for an 8yr old. It would be a nice light course that would make him confident in learning Latin. My 9yr old still likes to sing the songs from SSL.

I think first you need to look at your child's ability. If he does well with writing then I would go with LFC A

If he has problems with handwriting then I would go with SSL.

I think the kids get a lot of of SSL.

I started my girls with Prima Latina and they learned a lot but they learned even more when I had bought the SSL for my 5 and 2yr old at the time.

I guess you would have to go by your child. If he likes songs I would definitely give SSL a try. I think they learn just as much actually more quicker since its set to songs.

If you think he wouldn't enjoy songs then go with LFC A.

[Ali in OR]

We had an excellent year last year with LFC A for my 8 yo and 6 yo tag-along. I had narrowed it down to Lively Latin and LFC the spring before and printed out samples for each to help me decide. Both are strong programs. The things that tipped the scales in LFC's favor for me may tip the scales exactly the other way for other families with different learning styles/goals. For me though, these were the biggies:

 

*LL was described as having more writing. LFC was described as covering more vocab. My dd has an excellent memory so more vocab didn't scare me. She does have a bit of pencil phobia however. We did much of LFC orally or I would write her answers. And she did great with the memorizing--better than her mom!

*LL includes cultural instruction. I actually just wanted to focus on grammar and vocab. We have touched on cultural stuff in history and I expect to go into it a lot deeper when we cycle back to ancients next year.

*I'm more comfortable with old fashioned books and dvds than with printing out lessons and finding audio clips on-line. LFC is open and go. Very easy to use. The DVD is wonderful and I think is what really made both of my girls love Latin this year. After printing out maps for history this year, I am so glad I didn't have to print all of Latin last year.

*The layout of LFC fit how my brain works. Can't really explain it better than that--just that the structure fits my learning style. My dd thinks a lot like I do, so if I choose material to fit my learning style, it has always worked for her (younger dd may be different, but so far that hasn't been an issue). I had a little more trouble understanding the lesson structure of LL.

 

I would encourage you to look at the samples carefully. Hopefully one will jump out at you as just being the best fit for your situation.

[dcjlkplus3]

For 3rd grade and a mom who knows NOTHING about Latin, we are going to be starting Getting Started With Latin in a few weeks. It was cheap ($20 or less) and the downloads (pronunciation, etc) are free on the website. For that price I figured it was totally tryable. The lessons look like they take less than 15 minutes a day and totally build on one another. Its NOT sing-songy (which I like about it).

[Haiku]

I'm stuck in this wormhole, too. Originally I was simply planning to use LfC and start dd in 5th grade. Then, of course, I had to start reading here. :glare: Now I am planning to start dd in 3rd grade, and I can't decide whether to use LfC or LL. Eventually my goal is to move into Latin Prep, but that's too much for a third grader to start with.

 

Everyone loves LL except me. I don't know why I don't love it. I want to love it. I try to love it. I don't love it. But I may go with it anyway just because I feel pressured to love it. ;)

 

But then again, I am a big fan of Classical Academic Press, so I may go with LfC.

 

I'm a lot of help, aren't I? Hey, when you figure out what you're going to do, would you tell me so I can be a follower? :D

 

Tara

[Haiku]

Ali in OR, thanks for your post!!

 

Tara

[krw]

:confused: SIGH.....I'm still no closer to making a decision. And now I'm traveling down the Getting Started With Latin wormhole. :banghead:

 

Love the price tag of GSWL, but it doesn't look as "fun" as LL or Latin Prep I. DS8 is a bright kid who has a great memory for facts and information, but also enjoys both visual and hands on stimulation for learning. Not sure if the look and feel of GSWL or even LFC-A might be a little too dry for him. I'm tempted to ask him to look at each program. I'd have to guide him on looking at how the the work is laid out vs. just picking something with colorful pictures which is what I know he'd do without guidance.

 

Ali in OR - when you, and I think others, mention about kids having trouble with writing...do you mean just sloppy penmanship overall, or they really struggle with the act of writing - holding the pencil, that kind of thing? My son has sloppy penmanship due to plain ole LAZINESS, but when he really takes his time he has very nice handwriting for an 8-year-old. I also appreciate your feedback on what swayed you in the direction of LFC and your tip on what just jumps out at me.

 

Tara - what about LL don't you love? Have you tried it and don't love it, or just aren't feelin' it based on what you seen of it so far?

 

For those using LP1, GSWL or LFC-A - do the lessons go over sentence diagramming and structure? I think it is important for ds to understand how and why sentences are properly constructed (wouldn't hurt for mom to freshen up on that as well!) LL is the only program that I see based on what they share as samples, that offers actual sentence diagramming.

 

I've got everything else for the start of our school year except our Latin curriculum. We're starting school on 8/31 so I need to hustle and quit spinning me wheels....because worse case scenario, if it doesn't seem to be working we can always try something else.

 

Thanks to all the others who chimed in as well!

 

krw

[Ali in OR]

Ali in OR - when you, and I think others, mention about kids having trouble with writing...do you mean just sloppy penmanship overall, or they really struggle with the act of writing - holding the pencil, that kind of thing? My son has sloppy penmanship due to plain ole LAZINESS, but when he really takes his time he has very nice handwriting for an 8-year-old. I also appreciate your feedback on what swayed you in the direction of LFC and your tip on what just jumps out at me.

 

 

My dd CAN write, but is maybe just a little slower or a little behind others her age. I think writing slows her down, so if I write for her she can go at the speed of her brain more or less. She writes every day and the quantity goes up yearly, but for some subjects I'll write for her so we can go through it a little faster.

 

Good luck on your Latin quest!

[Another Lynn]

For 3rd grade and a mom who knows NOTHING about Latin, we are going to be starting Getting Started With Latin in a few weeks. It was cheap ($20 or less) and the downloads (pronunciation, etc) are free on the website. For that price I figured it was totally tryable. The lessons look like they take less than 15 minutes a day and totally build on one another. Its NOT sing-songy (which I like about it).

 

 

:iagree:

 

I started GSWL with my oldest last year (4th grade then). We've taken it very slow. It is efficient and that is what I like about it. It gets to the point without wasting valuable time we need for other subjects. He translates orally. We move on. My 2nd grade ds has heard enough of the lessons that he wanted to start - so we started this week. Some folks don't consider it a full program, but I didn't want it to take over our life. I ruled out Memoria Press's programs because I didn't want years of memory work without understanding why and how - that seemed like a waste to me. Other programs had appeal, but I mostly wanted to keep it simple.

[Strawberry Queen]

I'm going to jump in here with my .02.

 

About LL and printing. It's the one thing that made me not want to buy it. But it is such a well laid out program. I thought of getting the hard copy but it's just too expensive with exchange and shipping. I figured that I could print it out in colour twice for the cost of a hard copy. (to figure out the cost of printing I looked up to see how many pages a cartridge would print and went from there). I spent about 2.5 hours printing out the first 8 lessons, which is half of the curriculum. I did double sided when possible so it meant having to go through each lesson and print it in small chunks. It wasn't as bad as I thought.;)

 

I have done PL and 1/3 of LC1 in the past. I found the lack of explanations problematic for my understanding. My dd also likes having explanations directed at her that she can reread when needed. DD is also a real fan of roman history as a result of reading the Roman Mystery series by Caroline Lawrence. Having the history is a bonus for her.:D

 

I've done one week of LL and it's a good fit. I'm also doing Song School Latin with my younger dd for fun. She likes to be included and the picture of the monkey on the cover was too much for me. I just had to get it. Now, I have to say that I just got the student text as I view it as a gentle intro that is fun and over in less than 10 min.. She'll still do LL when she gets to that point. I would think that it SSL be too young for your son, especially if he has mocked math songs.

 

BTW, I share your pain. It took me all summer to decide on latin. I would look at your needs, where you are going with latin, what will be good for your son and you, time commitment etc. Happy choosing.:D

 

This whole message sounds a bit disjointed to me, so apologies are given.

[krw]

Ali in OR, Another Lynn and Strawberry Queen - thanks so much for your input. It may not seem like it...but it is helping. :tongue_smilie:

 

I guess I should point out why I want to teach this kid Latin in the first place, and then maybe some of you more knowledgeable ladies can lend me a bit more advice...

 

My son has weak auditory processing, which for those who may not know, means that his brain doesn't process everything it receives in. If I were to tell him - "Go put your clean clothes away, make your bed, hang up your jacket in the middle of your floor and take out the garbage" he'll hear everything just fine, but his brain may only process the first two or three items. The rest of it is received like teachers in the Charlie Brown cartoons - "Womp womp womp womp..":lol: I had him tested at a place locally and the part of his brain that can memorize and retain information is equivalent to that of an 18-year-old (may be older but the system only calculates to the age of 18). But the part of his brain that handles auditory processing is equivalent to that of a 6-year-old and if we don't work on strengthening his brain that part of his brain will forever remain six. And weak auditory processing affects comprehension, conceptual thinking, staying on task, behavior, following directions and more.

 

Sooo, I'm drawn to Latin because I know it is a good mental workout for the brain (we are also using other tools designed to help with improving his auditory processing skills), I like the way it helps us to understand the English language so much better, and I'd eventually like for him to study Spanish - a favorite of mine - or any other foreign language he may be drawn to.

 

Based on that, I guess I am looking for a simplistic (easy to teach and learn) but fun and thorough program that will give his brain muscles a good workout.

 

Any thoughts on where GSWL, LL, LP1 or LFC-A fit in based on my needs?

 

krw

[Strawberry Queen]

Well, I'm not sure if this changes things or not. You want to do latin. Something that is as enjoyable as possible, while still covering the basics. I really would go with LL. It has an audio component but it's not going to be too hard. The lessons will help in work on grammar and general language skills. I'm guessing that over learning something like grammar would be very useful for your son. It really needs to be stuck in that 18yo part.:D I think that something that is written to the child will explain things in a way a non-latin person can understand and teach to the child when extra help is needed.

 

HTH

[Haiku]

Tara - what about LL don't you love? Have you tried it and don't love it, or just aren't feelin' it based on what you seen of it so far?

 

 

I have not tried it. I don't like their website, which is petty. I don't like their little cartoon characters of Roman soldiers, which is petty. I don't like the cost, and I just am not feelin' it, as you said, when I look at their samples.

 

LL and I just don't groove, kwim?

 

But I still might use it. :confused:

 

Tara

[krw]

Strawberry Queen - I forget now who mentioned it before, but someone said to go with what "jumps out at me" and based on the feedback and what I've looked at - LL is speaking to me. Probably something really simple, but I liked the exercises in LL that focus on character traits. Good character is important to us and I certainly can appreciate a Latin curriculum that challenges kids to discern between good and poor character traits. I'm sure many other programs out there probably do the same or similar (not just Latin), but this is something that stood out to me. On top of the fact that it seems pretty well laid out and I like the suggested study schedule.

 

I appreciate your feedback, as well as everyone else. Now, if I can only find someone selling their LL CD sets....:D

 

krw

[krw]

Tara - I didn't see your post before my last reply. I'm feelin' you on not feelin' LL :lol: as there were other programs for various curriculum out there that just did not slick my hair back and curl my toes based on their look and feel even though I had never tried them. Like you, some of my reasons were petty and had I not found an acceptable/comparable substitute I would've gone with them against my little picky differences. But...some of those programs are on the backup list in case my first choice flops.

 

My second choice (originally my first) for was LFC-A. They are neck-and-neck in price - and trust me I tried to find many used solutions on various sites through different sellers but most came up to costing more than buying the bundle new from the site - so either way I'm paying about the same. At least this way with LL if it turns out that we love it I'll have the CDs and and can just duplicate the materials whenever needed for dd4 when it's her turn, vs. having to repurchase the consumable workbook. Something minor, I know, but a silver lining nonetheless.

 

Good luck and let me know where you land once you come out of the wormhole! :)

 

krw

[buddhabelly]

Just wanted to add that LFC Primer A is written for third graders. Well, if one can say that there is an "average" third grader. I should say that it works really well for 8/9-year-olds. We really like this program, and I just wanted to add a few things.

 

Don't skip the DVD's. It is a homeschooled situation in the DVD, and my son just loves watching these girls learn Latin with their "dad." (They do 'fess up at some point that only one of the girls is his daughter.) We are finishing up Primer "C" and their dog has puppies, so you get to meet the puppies. Every week when there is a new lesson to watch, my son hopes that we get to see the puppies and that the puppies will be allowed to come to lesson.

 

Also, be sure you get the newest version. Primer "A" DVD has been revised to include more explanation. It's a separate time, without the students, where Dr. Perrin explains the grammar a bit more. And I believe they slow down the chants on the newer version.

 

If you don't have a newer DVD and the book doesn't match the DVD, the book is usually right because they revised the book more times than they revised the DVD.

 

Now wish us luck in our transition to Latin Primer! We plan to go through it pretty quickly since we've done LFC A, B and C. Now I'd better revise my signature.....

 

Julie