So confused about writing :(

[emmsmama]

CW? Writing Strands? Writeshop? WT? Wordsmith? Editor in Chief? I've heard good things said about all of these and am befuddled as to what to use with dd who is going into Gr. 5 level this school year.

 

I do plan on going through WWE 1-4 with her first at a somewhat accelerated pace (as long as it works for her - I have the teacher hardback book and will work from that with her). I'm confused where to go after that though. She narrates fairly well, but I think it's really crucial for us to go through WWE first to get a solid foundation with copywork, narration and dictation.

 

I want something simple to use but thorough. I also would prefer something that doesn't take hours each day and something that she can do somewhat independently. If grammar is incorporated that is even better.

 

She is an excellent reader and an average speller, but I feel like she wrote more and wrote more interesting stuff back in Gr. 2 in public school. We've done no formal writing of any kind the past two years and I'd love to have something that will help get her writing again, but also teach good writing skills as well.

 

I also have ILL sitting on my shelf and I know there are some writing assignments in there, but I'm not sure how indepth it goes in teaching *how* to write well.

[johnandtinagilbert]

CW? Writing Strands? Writeshop? WT? Wordsmith? Editor in Chief? I've heard good things said about all of these and am befuddled as to what to use with dd who is going into Gr. 5 level this school year.

 

 

I want something simple to use but thorough. I also would prefer something that doesn't take hours each day and something that she can do somewhat independently. If grammar is incorporated that is even better.

 

She is an excellent reader

hate to add to the pot, but I use and enjoy Writing Aids by Marcia Sommerville.

1. Slow and easy assignments that fulfill a variety of writing assignments.

2. Teacher's book that tells you how to teach. I actually allowed my 5-7th graders to read the teacher's book as their instruction this year and simply met with them to make sure they understood.

3. Includes how to grade for genres

4. Includes writing graphic organizers and suggestions which ones to use with particular genres.

 

We were able to successfully make the jump from mini-reports on history or science topics to a variety of genres this year using this program and I never, not once gave a lecture on how to write such and such and so and so.

[PeterPan]

WT2, Paragraph Writing Made Easy, and have her outline for history. The PWME won't take a ton of time (just do a little each week), will be relatively independent, and will keep the non-fiction skills going while you're doing WT2. WT2 is WONDERFUL, absolutely wonderful. I'd go so far as to say it's a don't miss! WTM tells how to do the history outlining. We do ours together and dd writes, easy peasy. Also she's supposed to be doing book reports/summaries each week. I have my dd doing those, and we'll also intersperse some of the book report projects from http://www.mrsrenz.net/bookprojects.htm We did some last year and they were GREAT!

[Colleen in NS]

CW? Writing Strands? Writeshop? WT? Wordsmith? Editor in Chief? I've heard good things said about all of these and am befuddled as to what to use with dd who is going into Gr. 5 level this school year.

 

I do plan on going through WWE 1-4 with her first at a somewhat accelerated pace (as long as it works for her - I have the teacher hardback book and will work from that with her). I'm confused where to go after that though. She narrates fairly well, but I think it's really crucial for us to go through WWE first to get a solid foundation with copywork, narration and dictation.

 

I want something simple to use but thorough. I also would prefer something that doesn't take hours each day and something that she can do somewhat independently. If grammar is incorporated that is even better.

 

She is an excellent reader and an average speller, but I feel like she wrote more and wrote more interesting stuff back in Gr. 2 in public school. We've done no formal writing of any kind the past two years and I'd love to have something that will help get her writing again, but also teach good writing skills as well.

 

I also have ILL sitting on my shelf and I know there are some writing assignments in there, but I'm not sure how indepth it goes in teaching *how* to write well.

 

I *love* WWE and SWB's whole method for teaching writing. It's very versatile, and we can use any of the reading we are doing. So, after doing copywork/dictation and narration with ds for four years, and shoring his skills up with WWE last fall, I am now working on outlining skills with him. The new WTM has excellent instructions for outlining. He does an outline twice a week from non-fiction, and a WWE-style narration twice a week from non-fiction or fiction. I use R&S for grammar, and for paragraph-writing lessons to help him with his narrations.

 

So each day he either does an outline or a narration. I work with him on them, meaning, we talk about the reading that he is going to write from, before he sits down to write. Then he does his writing (narrations are about 4-6 sentences, outlines currently are two-level, on two paragraphs - maybe increase later), then I check them over for: grammar, punctuation, spelling, and to see what he was thinking when he summarized for the narration, or how he organized the writer's thoughts his own way in his outline. IOW, I look for his line of thinking and ask for any clarification needed in his writing, and then he edits any changes that need to be made.

 

It's not independent, but it certainly doesn't take hours a day.:D Depending on his pace that day, the whole thing might take 30-60 minutes. It took me awhile to wrap my head around how to do all this, but now that we are into a routine, I really like it - it's fun to see how his thinking is developing through his writing.

[Homeschooling6]

I just found out about Timre4Writing. Haven't had a chance to look at it yet.

[Storm Bay]

We've tried Writing Strands and it was a bust for us. Dd did all of WS 3 & some of 4.

 

WriteShop has many good features, but it was also a bust for us. This is for 2 reasons. a, my dd hates, hates, hates to write when she has to, and b, because it's very teacher intensive and she doesn't do well with those kinds of courses.

 

WordSmith--This is what we're going to try this year, but a friend of mine and I are going to see if we can get together once a week so that she can teach writing and I can teach math. I'd far rather teach math than writing. I can't say if it's good or not.

 

I haven't used the other two or bought them (not even sure what WT is.)

[NancyNellen]

 

I want something simple to use but thorough. I also would prefer something that doesn't take hours each day and something that she can do somewhat independently. If grammar is incorporated that is even better.

 

 

Given these criteria, I would cross CW off your list. It is a fantastic program, but it is teacher-intensive, takes a bit of time, and is not really designed to be used independently.

[Ellie]

Writing Strands, probably Level 4. Do it this year; if you don't like it, do something else next year. It will be fine.

[johnandtinagilbert]

Wanted to add Writing Strands was a bust for us too. I felt it assumed too much understanding and the lower levels did not insight interest in my dc.

[Polly]

Have you considered Meaningful Composition? We went through just about every program before finding it. It made a world of difference for us! It's the IEW approach but in a lesson format that is doable. It really built my dd's confidence! She's an excellent writer now (she's 18)! Before using this she could hardly right a sentence without feel of failure.

 

http://www.tfths.com/comp.php

[Ruby]

I second the meaningful composition. I have not done it but heavily contemplated it for my 7th grader this year. Looks great. Girlfriend used it with her daughter and loves it. She highly recommended it. Ruby

[emmsmama]

Hmm, now it's even more difficult to decide :confused: Thanks for the suggestions though :) I think I'm going to first focus on WWE and use Colleen's suggestions and then around Christmastime, when we take a little break, I'm going to decide where to go from there. I suppose I could wait until next year to do any kind of writing program besides WWE, but then I feel that it puts more pressure on us if we do decide to use a sequential program after that. For example, on the Meaningful Composition website it says that a lot of the fundamentals are laid out in book 4+, so if I wait until dd is in Gr. 6 and then go with MC, then we'd be playing catch up, or we'd be missing stuff she probably needs in the 7&8 books.

[Brindee]

Have you considered Meaningful Composition? We went through just about every program before finding it. It made a world of difference for us! It's the IEW approach but in a lesson format that is doable. It really built my dd's confidence! She's an excellent writer now (she's 18)! Before using this she could hardly right a sentence without feel of failure.

 

http://www.tfths.com/comp.php

I looked this up, and I think it looks interesting!

 

on the Meaningful Composition website it says that a lot of the fundamentals are laid out in book 4+, so if I wait until dd is in Gr. 6 and then go with MC, then we'd be playing catch up, or we'd be missing stuff she probably needs in the 7&8 books.

I think it said that kids that start older got through the 4+ book in a very short time, and it is just a refresher course, basically. Then you can work through the other levels at her pace. Edited August 15, 2009 by Brindee

[Nestof3]

Thanks Colleen for this description. It helps me a lot!

[radiobrain]

this might sound a bit odd, but this is what I did when i was in this EXACT same situation a bit earlier in the year.....it also might not work as I had a few different program choices.

 

Download any sample lessons (if available) from every program you are considering, and put them in an order you like. Intersperse these lessons with something you already do or like, WWE... letter writing, word roots, whatever. This should give you a few months worth of lessons and methods. Then you can decide which one you and your kids liked the best and go with that one. OR you can decide that you have gotten some good ideas from them all and can throw together your own thing. You have now saved $$ and gotten a good idea of where each program is coming from and how it will help you.

 

I put all mine in a notebook and wrote up a little synopsis of how the week or month would go. BTW, I used Bravewriter (freewrite, teatime and download of "the arrow") Writing tales, Write with the best, WWE, and some other stuff I can't remember.

 

HTH!

[emmsmama]

That's a good idea radio head. I could intersperse sample stuff this year and then if we really enjoy a program, we can go with it more fully next year, but then at least I won't be stressing about having to do a program because I bought it, or wasting money on something that doesn't work. I could always do WWE the first half of the year and then continue on with your suggestion and a bit of Colleen's method for the second half of the school year!

[Colleen in NS]

Thanks Colleen for this description. It helps me a lot!

 

You're welcome. That conf. where I met you really helped me to put the pieces together in my mind.

 

Colleen's method

 

Just for the sake of any readers, I just want to clarify that it's SWB's method. :D emmsmama, did you know that someday there will be two more books to follow WWE? They'll take you all the way through high school. The ideas I outlined are taken from workshops that SWB did in the spring - I imagine she will use that workshop material for her books.

 

Good luck this coming year!

[Melissa in CA]

WT2, Paragraph Writing Made Easy, and have her outline for history. The PWME won't take a ton of time (just do a little each week), will be relatively independent, and will keep the non-fiction skills going while you're doing WT2. WT2 is WONDERFUL, absolutely wonderful

 

:iagree::iagree::iagree: Writing Tales 2 and PWME is a perfect combo. My son loved WT2 and wrote some pretty great stories. Plus, though I would not use WT as our only grammar, the grammar he did in it was terrific, especially toward the middle-end of the book. Paragraph Writing Made Easy is great as well! And like OhElizabeth said...relatively independent in teaching those non-fiction skills. ;)

[PeterPan]

Yeah, I don't mean to toot my own horn or anything, but you REALLY ought to check out Writing Tales 2 and Paragraph Writing Made Easy. WT2 is SO good and she's the PERFECT age for it. (speaking as someone who did it earlier, when not the perfect age) You would LOVE it, honest. I could now add all kinds of frosting to this note about how great WT2 is, how it would spark her creativity and be just right, teach lots of skills (basically everything in IEW SWI B, just a lot more fun), and be independent aside from you reading and discussing one day a week using the co-op lesson plans. Sure I could slather all that on, but you'll see it if you just go look. :)

 

BTW, my dd didn't need a whole year to come up to speed on the WWE skills. Yours may not either.

[Caroline4kids]

Have you considered Meaningful Composition? We went through just about every program before finding it. It made a world of difference for us! It's the IEW approach but in a lesson format that is doable. It really built my dd's confidence! She's an excellent writer now (she's 18)! Before using this she could hardly right a sentence without feel of failure.

 

http://www.tfths.com/comp.php

 

Do you need the IEW dvds to do this program? or does it teach it step by step so you do not need them?

[Polly]

No, you don't need the IEW DVD's to do Meaningful Composition. It's taught step by step.

[kckamy]

I second WT2. It is a wonderful program that gives a solid foundation to build upon.

 

My daughter is finishing up WT2 and then we are going on to Meaningful Composition.

 

WT2, Paragraph Writing Made Easy, and have her outline for history. The PWME won't take a ton of time (just do a little each week), will be relatively independent, and will keep the non-fiction skills going while you're doing WT2. WT2 is WONDERFUL, absolutely wonderful. I'd go so far as to say it's a don't miss! WTM tells how to do the history outlining. We do ours together and dd writes, easy peasy. Also she's supposed to be doing book reports/summaries each week. I have my dd doing those, and we'll also intersperse some of the book report projects from http://www.mrsrenz.net/bookprojects.htm We did some last year and they were GREAT!

[emmsmama]

You're welcome. That conf. where I met you really helped me to put the pieces together in my mind.

 

Just for the sake of any readers, I just want to clarify that it's SWB's method. :D emmsmama, did you know that someday there will be two more books to follow WWE? They'll take you all the way through high school. The ideas I outlined are taken from workshops that SWB did in the spring - I imagine she will use that workshop material for her books.

 

 

I know more books of WWE will be coming out, just not sure when so I don't want to count on them being ready by a certain date. The odd thing is that until I started coming on the WTM forums regularly, I didn't even consider WWE because it sounded too simple and I didn't get why someone would buy it. After getting the hardback teacher book that covers level 1-4, I realize the beauty in the method :)

 

I second WT2. It is a wonderful program that gives a solid foundation to build upon.

 

My daughter is finishing up WT2 and then we are going on to Meaningful Composition.

 

So it's okay to completely skip Writing Tales 1? Where would one start in Meaningful Composition after going through WT2? I looked at the samples of WT2 and it looks pretty straightforward to use while being thorough and interesting :)

[emmsmama]

Okay, a few more questions:

 

1. Is the Paragraph Writing Made Easy book that was recommended the one by Rosemary Shiras that is around $8-10?

 

2. Would Meaningful Composition be a good fit for a secular schooling family? I don't mind occasional references to God or Jesus, but is it like Rod & Staff where it is an integral part of the program?

 

3. Is it likely that it would be possible to just do the 4+, 6+ and 8+ books and get a thorough teaching from just those? Looking on the website, there are two books for each level, but it says that the "+" books are good for older students or those who need to get a strong grasp on the fundamentals of the program so I'm wondering if I could just do the "+" books. I'm sure it'd be better to do all, but is it really necessary to do both semesters of every book? Is the second semester like extra enrichment or an integral part of the course that shouldn't be skipped?

[Brindee]

Okay, a few more questions:

 

1. Is the Paragraph Writing Made Easy book that was recommended the one by Rosemary Shiras that is around $8-10?

 

2. Would Meaningful Composition be a good fit for a secular schooling family? I don't mind occasional references to God or Jesus, but is it like Rod & Staff where it is an integral part of the program?

 

3. Is it likely that it would be possible to just do the 4+, 6+ and 8+ books and get a thorough teaching from just those? Looking on the website, there are two books for each level, but it says that the "+" books are good for older students or those who need to get a strong grasp on the fundamentals of the program so I'm wondering if I could just do the "+" books. I'm sure it'd be better to do all, but is it really necessary to do both semesters of every book? Is the second semester like extra enrichment or an integral part of the course that shouldn't be skipped?

Good questions! :bigear::lurk5:

[PeterPan]

Yes, that's the right PWME. I think you can also get it as an ebook download to make it easy to print the student pages. Yes, you can go directly to WT2 with a 5th grader. She'll be fine, learn a ton, and enjoy it. WT2 is rewriting fiction while building their skills. PWME is outlining and writing non-fiction paragraphs. The two are very complementary. Then move on to another writing program (MC, Wordsmith, whatever you like).

[Polly]

What is PWME?

 

Thanks!