anotherclassicmom Posted August 10, 2009 Share Posted August 10, 2009 I am at my wits end here. I am hoping someone has had these issues and can give me some advice. My 7 year old has issues with wetting her pants. Most of it I would say comes from her not wanting to quit playing to come in. I understand that. I know how to fix that. She has started wetting her bed again, again, I know that because of the heat she has been drinking water later in the evening then usual. I bought pull-ups. However, we have this new issue of pooping in the pants. Hiding it, finding it days later. I have gone through and cleaned out her room, and am in the process of washing every bit of clothing she had. She hid most of it in her drawers. I would say she could be having accidents 2 times a day. She changes a lot, it's summer, we play in the water. However, I have told her we will be doing room checks every morning, I put away all the toys way up and she will earn a toy every morning that I do not see hidden clothes or pull ups. If she has an accident and tells me, she does not get any punishments. However, if she hides it, we start back at the beginning with all toys and extras being put up out of reach. What more can I do? What is the problem here? I have taken her to the doctor, he says its not a medical issue. She has been tested for any infections. She is a highly smart little girl and can easily control it. All of this has recently started again after about 4 months of no issues. Thank you in advance for any help you might be able to shed on this.:confused: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abbeyej Posted August 10, 2009 Share Posted August 10, 2009 My first thought was to have her checked by the doctor for infections, etc. Glad you've already done that. My second step would be to treat her as if she's very constipated. You might want to Google "encopresis" and see if any of it might fit for her. I would be stuffing her full of flax seed meal, fruit, and probably even giving a small daily dose of Milk of Magnesia for the first week or two. Just make sure that constipation can't be playing into this. After that, I think you're on the on the right track with only punishing the secrecy / lying. I would also require that she participate in any / all clean up required, including doing any extra laundry. I would try to emphasize that this isn't a punishment, but simply taking responsibility. (I'd also point out that any time she saved by not rushing to the toilet was forfeited by clean-up time.) But I'm 100% with you on punishment for covering up the problem. My dd went through a slight phase like this. One thing that I told her was that I was very concerned, and I was faced with a dilemma: either she could control this, but she was doing it anyway, in which case I should probably be punishing her, or she couldn't control it and it was a medical problem and we should go back to the doctor. I didn't want her to be sick and suffering, and if this was completely beyond her control, obviously we'd have to make another appt and go back in. Strangely, that was pretty much enough for her. Embarrassed as she was about the whole thing, the thought of going and discussing it with another adult was even worse... I really *didn't* mean to present going to the doctor as a punishment -- I was genuinely concerned... But explaining that to her did seem to help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pamela H in Texas Posted August 10, 2009 Share Posted August 10, 2009 (edited) Honestly, if there is not a medical issue, there is almost certainly SOME issue. My guess would be some sort of stress or trauma. Are there any other behavioral issues? maybe things you thought were just growing up or because of summer or whatever, but on second thought??? I would try to talk to her very privately and lovingly. I would "be there" more than anything. And I would be encouraging. If she wouldn't open up to me, I think I would consider help. It really might not be as bad as my first thoughts (which I admit is really bad trauma). It could be a misunderstanding of some sort that caused her a little extra stress. We had a funny (in hindsight) situation that happened because of a misunderstanding. It's funny how sentence can be so misunderstood by a young person! I agree with Abbey that you're right to just handle the lying/hiding. And I agree also with only helping HER with clean up. That isn't punishment but just life. If I spill milk, I clean it up. If she wets the bed, she puts the sheets in the wash. Edited August 10, 2009 by 2J5M9K Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingersmom Posted August 10, 2009 Share Posted August 10, 2009 Have you thought about having her talk to a therapist? Maybe there is some issue going on and she would open up about it. I don't think I would go the punishment route. My son was a late poopy potty trainer. I begged, pleaded, lost my cool, did the punishment route and finally just let it be. Sure enough he was heading to the potty everytime he had to poop. Problem solved. Hope it gets resolved soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lgm Posted August 10, 2009 Share Posted August 10, 2009 Is she scared of the noise of the toilet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anotherclassicmom Posted August 10, 2009 Author Share Posted August 10, 2009 (edited) Thank you ladies. I sat down and talked with her alone. (and will continue to do so) I mentioned we would have to go back to the doctor and he would have to do more testing. I asked her if she could tell she needed to go potty. She said yes. Her words were "okay mama, I am going to tell you the truth" (moment of worry) "I can tell I have to go, I just don't want to stop playing, and then I can't hold it anymore" So... I mention that cleaning it up will take a lot longer then taking a few minutes to go potty, as will the fact that she won't play with the neighbor kids if she has an accident. I think she is getting it. (texas -) That was my first thought, and why I took her to the doctor. (he has been her doctor since she was born) I wanted to make sure I wasn't missing anything. Since she is rarely out of my sight I wasn't sure, but you never know. Her personality has not changed, no behavior issues that are new or abnormal. She is a fun loving happy child, even when disobedient. I'm sure I would see a personality change. Not only that but with all my children we have done a lot of training on what's okay what is not okay as far as friends and their families. Not that it couldn't still happen, but when I see personality changes that is the second place I go. :) The first being normal growing up. Thank you for the advice and help. Just knowing I'm doing the right thing helps. Edited August 10, 2009 by anotherclassicmom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirty ethel rackham Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 Thank you ladies. I sat down and talked with her alone. (and will continue to do so) I mentioned we would have to go back to the doctor and he would have to do more testing. I asked her if she could tell she needed to go potty. She said yes. Her words were "okay mama, I am going to tell you the truth" (moment of worry) "I can tell I have to go, I just don't want to stop playing, and then I can't hold it anymore" So... I mention that cleaning it up will take a lot longer then taking a few minutes to go potty, as will the fact that she won't play with the neighbor kids if she has an accident. I think she is getting it. Before you wrote this part, several things flashed at me - bedwetting, soiling and urine accidents - all pointed to chronic constipation/encopresis. This is where there is so much stool backed up that it puts pressure on the bladder and also, the soft stool gets around the harder stool. But, if she can feel that she has to go, then it is not likely. However, if she is withholding,then that could lead to the constipation issues and encopresis. I would keep an eye on this. Please don't make this too much of an obedience issue, but a health issue. Focusing too much on obedience can lead to the withholding, plus setting her up for lying to cover up her shame. Instead, focus on helping her to remember because it can become a bad habit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirty ethel rackham Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 Oh, and one more thing ... just because a doc says it's not medical does not mean that there isn't a medical cause. Doctors miss encopresis diagnoses all.the.time. It can take up to two years to get a proper diagnosis because many docs are not educated on encopresis. They often say it is a behavior issue or a psych issue, rather than look for the root cause. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillieBoy Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 Oh, and one more thing ... just because a doc says it's not medical does not mean that there isn't a medical cause...... :iagree: You said you've had the same pediatrician since birth, but have you considered seeing a specialist like a pediatric urologist. My brother's soon to be step son had VERY similar symptoms. He could feel it but actually not quite enough and it turned out he had under developed bladder sphincter. I didn't get if there was a medical problem for the other elimination though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OrganicAnn Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 Assuming it is not a medical issue. I've known some very smart kids to have had issues like this. It is almost that they are so caught up in something that they (more than most kids) ignore their body's signals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mom0012 Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 Oh, and one more thing ... just because a doc says it's not medical does not mean that there isn't a medical cause. Doctors miss encopresis diagnoses all.the.time. It can take up to two years to get a proper diagnosis because many docs are not educated on encopresis. They often say it is a behavior issue or a psych issue, rather than look for the root cause. :iagree: My daughter has been having stomach pain off and on for a long time and we've just gone through lots of testing through a gastroenterologist. I have never thought my daughter had problems with constipation, but when they did an x-ray, she was completely backed up. Her doctor has recommended she take Miralax (which is available over the counter) and that she could take it indefinitely. I doubt this doctor would have discovered that my daughter had this problem except that she asked me to bring her a copy of the x-rays for her to look at personally. As far as the x-ray tech was concerned, everything was normal. In my experience, there are a lot of subtle things that can be affecting a child's health that a doctor will never detect. Lisa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babysparkler Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 Assuming it is not a medical issue. I've known some very smart kids to have had issues like this. It is almost that they are so caught up in something that they (more than most kids) ignore their body's signals. My son (who is highly gifted) is still having issues at age 9... he tells me that he would rather keep his focus than worry about taking a potty break, so he waits until the very last second and often "misses". It drives me crazy, but doesn't seem to be a problem in his eyes. The younger siblings have started to notice, so I am now wondering if that will be his motivation to change things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ottakee Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 I would take her to see a peds. urologist and get an x-ray for encopresis. This certainly sounds like a medical issue. We have dealt with this here for years and now with daily Miralax the problem is GONE. I can see her wanting to hide this---after all, what 7 year old wants others to know that she wets/messes her pants. Even if she can feel it, she might not have enough warning to make it to the bathroom and given her age she might not know how much "warning" is normal. Kids can poop every day and still be blocked up higher. Our peds. urologist said the FIRST thing they check when kids have wetting issues is encopresis as that is very often the cause. Other things would be spastic bladder (muscles contract with little to no warning and cause wetting) or infection. The sooner this can be addressed the better as if it is encopresis, then the muscles will need to be retrained after being stretched out so long. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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