Healthcare reform bill

[Orthodox6]

I can [not] take the time to read every portion of this thread, just as I can [not] take the time to read the 1000+ pages of the proposed legislation !

 

What I have read from the thread, though, is very thought-provoking. Thanks to everyone who has contributed.

 

I was talking with my close friend (also a homeschooler) who is expecting her 9th child. She greatly fears government-run/mandated/meddling health insurance because it very likely will morph into government-mandated family-size regulations. She claimed to me -- (and I have not confirmed this by research) -- that Mr. Obama already is trying to FORCE ob/gyns to perform abortions. That would be infinitely wrong to force anybody to perform one. Let a doctor make that choice, should s/he so choose. That is legal. Do NOT, however, change laws and force an individual to sin against his or her conscience. . . . (So, does anybody know whether my friend's assertion is correct ?)

[jensway]

To be honest, I am so opposed to this bill (and many of the other things that Mr. Obama stands for and wishes to implement in this country) that it makes me sick to my stomach to even think about it. I find myself wishing I could move out of the country right about now.

:iagree:

[Shenan]

just as I can [not] take the time to read the 1000+ pages of the proposed legislation !

 

 

 

Your not the only one who has posted this same sentiment!

 

BUT......

 

Isn't this what our TAX DOLLAR PAID representatives are doing?

[jensway]

We educate our own children because we don't trust the government's ability to do it, but we are going to trust this same government to manage our health and the health of the children we don't trust them to for their education? Logic? Hello?

:iagree:

[Elaine]

We educate our own children because we don't trust the government's ability to do it, but we are going to trust this same government to manage our health and the health of the children we don't trust them to for their education? Logic? Hello?

 

Logic? Surely you jest.

[MomLovesClassics]

I can [not] take the time to read every portion of this thread, just as I can [not] take the time to read the 1000+ pages of the proposed legislation !

 

What I have read from the thread, though, is very thought-provoking. Thanks to everyone who has contributed.

 

I was talking with my close friend (also a homeschooler) who is expecting her 9th child. She greatly fears government-run/mandated/meddling health insurance because it very likely will morph into government-mandated family-size regulations. She claimed to me -- (and I have not confirmed this by research) -- that Mr. Obama already is trying to FORCE ob/gyns to perform abortions. That would be infinitely wrong to force anybody to perform one. Let a doctor make that choice, should s/he so choose. That is legal. Do NOT, however, change laws and force an individual to sin against his or her conscience. . . . (So, does anybody know whether my friend's assertion is correct ?)

I heard some reference to 3 mandated flu shots being forced sterility shots.

[Perry]

I was talking with my close friend (also a homeschooler) who is expecting her 9th child. ... She claimed to me -- (and I have not confirmed this by research) -- that Mr. Obama already is trying to FORCE ob/gyns to perform abortions. That would be infinitely wrong to force anybody to perform one. Let a doctor make that choice, should s/he so choose. That is legal. Do NOT, however, change laws and force an individual to sin against his or her conscience. . . . (So, does anybody know whether my friend's assertion is correct ?)

 

Nobody's going to be forced to do abortions. From WSJ:

 

The debate centers on a Bush administration regulation, enacted in December, that cuts off federal funding for thousands of state and local governments, hospitals, health plans, clinics and other entities if they do not accommodate doctors, nurses, pharmacists or other employees who refuse to participate in care they feel violates their personal, moral or religious beliefs.

 

[AnotherE]

A large part of what drives up the health care costs in this country is public expectations. Most people expect the best care and they expect to get whatever care they want when they want it. So they might want X test or Y test. Maybe there is only a 1% chance that X test will discover X disorder given a set of symptoms. But to most Americans that 1% change is worth taking despite the costs as they want to "make sure". I don't really see this seriously talked about in the discussions about health care reform. People talk about "rationing" but not really about a fundamental change in our attitudes. It just is not possible to provide every single possible test/medical service to every single person. It's not. And I don't see Americans changing their feelings about this. This does not mean that people would necessarily get worse care if they aren't getting the tests....in many cases people ask for or demand tests that aren't necessary or that could wait without harm. But we want them the way we want it.

 

My husband works for one of the large not-for-profit insurance companies, and this is so true. His company encouraged employees to really take charge of their insurance and health care by pushing HDHPs and funding HSAs for them as an incentive. We took the offer and I am much more responsible in my health decisions. I actually call around now to find the best physicians with the best rates. I am a proactive patient now.

 

People complain about the high cost of insurance, but at the same time want access to to incredibly expensive technology. The money to pay for specialists, equipment, and medication has to come from somewhere. And even though my husband's employer is not-for-profit, they still have costs and employees and competitors to deal with. It is not a charity.

 

And I am apprehensive about the bill. It could mean my husband loses his job. But something needs to be done about health care access to all people- to me it is a basic human right to have health care.

[Elaine]

You know,

 

So I am just curious, why now do so many people think it is a luxury that everyone deserves to have?

 

 

:bigear:

 

 

Because we live in a country that has catered to folks who relish their victim status. The sense of entitlement that I see concerning the gov't is staggering.

 

Work for something?

 

Earn your own money?

 

Get a better job?

 

Why? Grandpa government is there to dispense food, shelter and band-aids.

 

I am sickened by this proposed government insurance bill. It's not healthcare. Everyone has access to healthcare, not everyone has access to health insurance to which I say, it's your responsibility to obtain. The government wants to take over the healthcare industry in the same way that they took over the banks and the auto industry.

 

Seriously, people. Wake-up! Take a long hard look at what is going on. Stop listening to the politicians and start looking at what they are doing.

[Elaine]

I know a homeschooling family with 3 cute little girls. They have:

 

2 cars

2 oldest girls are in ballet: one twice a week and the other once a week

2 private paino lessons in their home

2 art classes

Live in a very nice area in NJ. They pay at least $1500 (more likely $2000) a month rent for a house in this area. There are cheaper and still nice places to live close by her.

 

They have no health care coverage. According to the mother, they cannot afford it.:001_huh:

 

-------------------------------------------------------------------

My sister almost didn't graduate high school because she couldn't pass up a party. After graduating by the skin of her teeth, she began to work. She wouldn't stay at a job for more the 3 to 6 months before Jerry Garcia past away. She couldn't miss a free ride to a Dead show.:001_huh: She would never understand why her bosses would never let her off of work, so she would just quit.:001_huh::001_huh:

She doesn't have health care to this day. She is married to a man who had health care and could have paid a little extra to have her covered. They decided not too.:001_huh: Recently, he quit his job for a job that pays more, but doesn't provide health care. If you factor in the cost of the health care, the new job doesn't pay him more. He gets less pay.:tongue_smilie:

--------------------------------------------------------------------

Another ballet mom who doesn't have health insurance. Her daughter goes to ballet 5 times a week plus has private lessons on the weekend. Her son goes 3 times per week. Both children attend private school. They don't have enough money for health insurance.:001_huh:

----------------------------------------------------------------------

I think there are a lot of Americans out there that can afford health care, but choose to buy other things. That is their choice and I should have the choice not to pay for them through my taxes.:glare:

 

Amen and amen, Gretchen!!

[Shenan]

Because we live in a country that has catered to folks who relish their victim status. The sense of entitlement that I see concerning the gov't is staggering.

 

Work for something?

 

Earn your own money?

 

Get a better job?

 

Why? Grandpa government is there to dispense food, shelter and band-aids.

 

I am sickened by this proposed government insurance bill. It's not healthcare. Everyone has access to healthcare, not everyone has access to health insurance to which I say, it's your responsibility to obtain. The government wants to take over the healthcare industry in the same way that they took over the banks and the auto industry.

 

Seriously, people. Wake-up! Take a long hard look at what is going on. Stop listening to the politicians and start looking at what they are doing.

 

AMEN!!!

 

 

What's next on the everyone DESERVES to HAVE agenda? A car? A house?

Edited July 17, 2009 by Shenan
hit submit button to soon

[AnotherE]

Everyone has access to healthcare, not everyone has access to health insurance to which I say, it's your responsibility to obtain.

 

So let's say my family has health insurance provided by my husband's employer. My husband is diagnosed with cancer and needs treatment. He is no longer able to work and there goes his insurance. While I'm fairly certain there is access to healthcare for emergency situations, I don't know of places where they would provide ongoing cancer treatment at no cost. But (thankfully) I've never been in this situation, so I don't know for sure.

 

I don't think this would be an uncommon scenario- do you know of healthcare options that would keep him in cancer treatment? These are the concerns I have with the present system.

[Soph the vet]

I went to my Rep's office today. In fact there were at least a hundred of us crammed into her waiting room protesting this bill. People were from all segments of society, retirees, small business owners, SAHMs, you name it. My Rep was in DC but a very gracious spokesman came out and debated various topics with us for over an hour. From him I did find out that Congress will not be taking the public option for health insurance. He said they had a private plan.

I am glad to see there has been good discussion on this thread. My intention was to wake people up to the things getting rammed through in Washington in really lightning speed. My bottom line is still that this bill is unConstitutional. I asked my Rep's spokesman if he could give me the Constitutional basis for the federal government being involved in healthcare at all and he could not. If there were one, you would think they would have that in their back pocket ready for naysayers like me.

I do like Cathmom's plan and I think she should submit it to the powers that be in DC.

[Elaine]

So let's say my family has health insurance provided by my husband's employer. My husband is diagnosed with cancer and needs treatment. He is no longer able to work and there goes his insurance. While I'm fairly certain there is access to healthcare for emergency situations, I don't know of places where they would provide ongoing cancer treatment at no cost. But (thankfully) I've never been in this situation, so I don't know for sure.

 

I don't think this would be an uncommon scenario- do you know of healthcare options that would keep him in cancer treatment? These are the concerns I have with the present system.

 

Many people opt to purchase policies for catastrophic events such as the one you mentioned. Many other people don't like that idea because it requires putting money away or budgeting for healthcare.

 

When my husband and I were first married, we didn't have health insurance. We paid cash for doctors visits and medications, and we received discounts from the doctors for doing so. We also only went to the doctor when we were really sick.

 

The problem is that the free market has been removed from health care. If people actually had a voice and were able to choose to go to Dr.Smith who charges $100 for an exam or Dr.Jones who charges $75 for the same service, who would you choose? The real change, IMO, should be this. If you saw this scenario, health care costs would come down to where we could actually afford to pay cash again.

[MomLovesClassics]

Alright this is going to sound strange. With this new health care reform that many are opposed to, and the way the government is headed, here is my questions. Suppose the United States were to become a communist nation, what are the options? Some have compared Obama to Hitler, and say we are headed in that direction at a rapid pace. so do we get in a boat and head on over to a deserted island somewhere? Do we have a Civil War? The Rebels against the Communist? Do we become outlaws? Do we leave this country for another? Tell our kids of a former great nation that turned into a Dictatorship?

[Shenan]

So let's say my family has health insurance provided by my husband's employer. My husband is diagnosed with cancer and needs treatment. He is no longer able to work and there goes his insurance. While I'm fairly certain there is access to healthcare for emergency situations, I don't know of places where they would provide ongoing cancer treatment at no cost. But (thankfully) I've never been in this situation, so I don't know for sure.

 

I don't think this would be an uncommon scenario- do you know of healthcare options that would keep him in cancer treatment? These are the concerns I have with the present system.

 

I have a 50 yr old relative this has happened to! She lost her income and health insurance coverage but Medicare or is Medicaid (I get the 2 confused) is now paying for her treatments.

[AnotherE]

Alright this is going to sound strange. With this new health care reform that many are opposed to, and the way the government is headed, here is my questions. Suppose the United States were to become a communist nation, what are the options? Some have compared Obama to Hitler, and say we are headed in that direction at a rapid pace. so do we get in a boat and head on over to a deserted island somewhere? Do we have a Civil War? The Rebels against the Communist? Do we become outlaws? Do we leave this country for another? Tell our kids of a former great nation that turned into a Dictatorship?

 

You do what those of us did during the Dubya years- grit your teeth and wait it out until the next election. Self-medicating can help, too.

[Shenan]

Alright this is going to sound strange. With this new health care reform that many are opposed to, and the way the government is headed, here is my questions. Suppose the United States were to become a communist nation, what are the options? Some have compared Obama to Hitler, and say we are headed in that direction at a rapid pace. so do we get in a boat and head on over to a deserted island somewhere? Do we have a Civil War? The Rebels against the Communist? Do we become outlaws? Do we leave this country for another? Tell our kids of a former great nation that turned into a Dictatorship?

 

 

It's my understanding were all suppose to move to Texas!!! :D

[Mommyof4ks]

It's my understanding were all suppose to move to Texas!!! :D

 

:lol:

 

Come on down! We have a house for sale right next door to us near a beautiful lake.

[AnotherE]

I have a 50 yr old relative this has happened to! She lost her income and health insurance coverage but Medicare or is Medicaid (I get the 2 confused) is now paying for her treatments.

 

I am so sorry about her situation- I hope she wins her battle.

 

I guess the only answer is one government plan or another?

 

Elaine- thank you for answering my question. Now suppose we did have a catastrophic plan (which is pretty close to what we have now, actually) that we faithfully paid for. When my husband loses his job, how do we afford to continue to make the payments on the plan? I fear that even with my going back to work and paying for all of the assorted medical bills that we would rack up (even with insurance!) that I wouldn't be able to continue to pay the policy.

 

These are the types of scenarios that concern me. A family can do *everything* right and still be knocked out by a serious or terminal illness.

[Sara R]

You do what those of us did during the Dubya years-

 

This is not so much a matter of Dubya versus Obama. Dubya/McCain was going down the road to socialism/communism too, just at a slightly slower pace.

[Shenan]

Many people opt to purchase policies for catastrophic events such as the one you mentioned. Many other people don't like that idea because it requires putting money away or budgeting for healthcare.

 

 

 

We have these! Dh acquired them, one on him and one on me, through our life insurance company.

[AnotherE]

This is not so much a matter of Dubya versus Obama. Dubya/McCain was going down the road to socialism/communism too, just at a slightly slower pace.

 

I was just referring to how you ride out a president that does everything in direct opposition to your morals and beliefs. For what it's worth (and it is worth far less than two cents), I'm not really concerned about the US turning into a communist country. But maybe I just have blinders on or something.

[Shenan]

 

Elaine- thank you for answering my question. Now suppose we did have a catastrophic plan (which is pretty close to what we have now, actually) that we faithfully paid for. When my husband loses his job, how do we afford to continue to make the payments on the plan? I fear that even with my going back to work and paying for all of the assorted medical bills that we would rack up (even with insurance!) that I wouldn't be able to continue to pay the policy.

 

These are the types of scenarios that concern me. A family can do *everything* right and still be knocked out by a serious or terminal illness.

 

Not Elaine here. But, without pulling out our policies to re-read them, if I remember correctly, it's like a cash-out plan. You get x amount of dollars paid out. Similar to a life insurance plan.

[Mommyof4ks]

So let's say my family has health insurance provided by my husband's employer. My husband is diagnosed with cancer and needs treatment. He is no longer able to work and there goes his insurance. While I'm fairly certain there is access to healthcare for emergency situations, I don't know of places where they would provide ongoing cancer treatment at no cost. But (thankfully) I've never been in this situation, so I don't know for sure.

 

I don't think this would be an uncommon scenario- do you know of healthcare options that would keep him in cancer treatment? These are the concerns I have with the present system.

 

Emergency medicaid. The care is not great and one is limited to providers within their state for care (if the best of the best is in another state that is too bad). It is hard to find a doc that will take medicaid, but at least you can get some kind of care.

[Blessedfamily]

We could live a different lifestyle if we didn't pay so much for health insurance. My kids could have dad at home more, not working so much OT, but we consider paying for healthcare = paying for house= paying for food.

 

I know some people have catastrophic events, but some people I know personally really do choose to buy other things with their money. Certainly not all, but some.

[AnotherE]

Not Elaine here. But, without pulling out our policies to re-read them, if I remember correctly, it's like a cash-out plan. You get x amount of dollars paid out. Similar to a life insurance plan.

 

Our policy is a bit different. We have a $10,000 deductible and then coverage kicks in. And I believe the coverage is reduced to 80% after you reach a certain amount for individual sections in coverage. And the deductible is yearly, so every year you are responsible for that $10,000 again. The cancer-specific policies I looked at had quite a few loopholes that could leave huge medical bills uncovered. I wasn't satisfied they were worth the extra expense. I'll have to see if I can find one that just pays a lump sum on diagnosis.

 

Emergency medicaid. The care is not great and one is limited to providers within their state for care (if the best of the best is in another state that is too bad). It is hard to find a doc that will take medicaid, but at least you can get some kind of care.

 

I wonder if that would be much better than no care?? I can't believe that there are people who have to go through this. It truly is terrible.

 

My dad was Canadian, and when he was diagnosed with mesothelioma he received top-knotch care until the day he died. He had to quit work shortly after diagnosis, but he never had to worry about paying his medical bills. He opted not to receive chemo or radiation since his outlook was horrible, but he had fantastic doctors who made sure he was comfortable. He even had a healthcare aide at his home so he could remain in his house as long as possible. His end days were bad, but I was impressed at his level of treatment as the disease progressed. And what a blessing to the family to know he was taken care of completely, regardless of his income at the time.

[Elaine]

I am so sorry about her situation- I hope she wins her battle.

 

I guess the only answer is one government plan or another?

 

Elaine- thank you for answering my question. Now suppose we did have a catastrophic plan (which is pretty close to what we have now, actually) that we faithfully paid for. When my husband loses his job, how do we afford to continue to make the payments on the plan? I fear that even with my going back to work and paying for all of the assorted medical bills that we would rack up (even with insurance!) that I wouldn't be able to continue to pay the policy.

 

These are the types of scenarios that concern me. A family can do *everything* right and still be knocked out by a serious or terminal illness.

 

I agree with you. :001_smile: I do think, though, that government health care is not the solution. Reform what we do have, starting with making it affordable, and go from there.

 

I wish I had a better answer for you.

[AnotherE]

Maybe you and I can put our heads together and come up with the perfect plan. I've always wanted to march up the steps of the capitol and demand something. It just feels so radical.;)

[Blessedfamily]

.... I've always wanted to march up the steps of the capitol and demand something. ....;)

 

I'm really into exercise right now, so I'll march with you if you can come up with a way to fix what we have.

[AnotherE]

I'm really into exercise right now, so I'll march with you if you can come up with a way to fix what we have.

:lol:

I forgot about how many steps there are. Maybe I'll only march half way and stop for a doughnut. Think it might send a mixed message about health care reform?

[Dirtroad]

I haven't read all the responses yet--this is a very interesting discussion so I'll do my best (in addition to trying to plow through the actual bill). :)

 

The posts brought to mind the issue of taxing health care benefits, first proposed by John McCain prior to the election. The door has been left open by President Obama to also do this.

 

Some articles:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/15/us/politics/15health.html

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory?id=7731736

 

What are your thoughts on the taxing of some health care benefits?

What do you think will be the end result of both of these ideas coming to fruition?

 

Republicans have their hands just as dirty as the Dems. Our "conservative congressman" (who is not conservative, but Republican) ran on giving prescription drugs to more people & getting more gov't involved in healthcare... sure, not like his opponents (he says) but really it is the same (they just are moving slower to the same end)

[Blessedfamily]

:lol:

I forgot about how many steps there are. Maybe I'll only march half way and stop for a doughnut. Think it might send a mixed message about health care reform?

 

Yes Ma'am. Clean eating and exercise were big health care reforms for me. :001_smile: (I'm hoping the expensive insurance will just be a backup.)

[Sara R]

I agree with you. :001_smile: I do think, though, that government health care is not the solution. Reform what we do have, starting with making it affordable, and go from there.

 

 

I like Clark Howard's plan:

• Just say no to socialized medicine -- In a Howard administration, there would be just 12 health plans offered: 3 HMOs, 3 PPOs, 3 HSAs and 3 of the traditional 80/20 splits.

 

Every insurer would have to sell identical plans. That way you could switch to another insurer's HMO plan No. 2 if your insurer's HMO plan No. 2 is too costly. You would pay your premium based on age, and there would be no redlining based on your past medical history. You wouldn't be required to have health insurance, but you wouldn't be allowed to buy it when you're sick; instead, you'd have to wait 18 months.

 

A word about Medicare: Seniors would buy healthcare from private insurers in one of the 12 plans, but the government would subsidize catastrophic care at ages 55 and older.

 

Is it possible to simultaneously achieve the first 2 platform points? Of course not. By 2028, the costs of Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid will exceed what is today the entire federal budget, according to Forbes. So we would either have to raise taxes to an unconscionable level or tell people the truth that we can not afford to be Santa Claus to everybody.

 

In a Howard administration, we would all need to do a hard reset about the issue of personal responsibility vs. what we expect from government. Santa's sack is getting less and less full, so you've got to be your own Santa. Clark will be running on the Ebenezer Scrooge platform for 2012!

 

He also believes in medical cost transparency (posted prices) so you can comparison shop.

[Dirtroad]

I can [not] take the time to read every portion of this thread, just as I can [not] take the time to read the 1000+ pages of the proposed legislation !

 

What I have read from the thread, though, is very thought-provoking. Thanks to everyone who has contributed.

 

I was talking with my close friend (also a homeschooler) who is expecting her 9th child. She greatly fears government-run/mandated/meddling health insurance because it very likely will morph into government-mandated family-size regulations. She claimed to me -- (and I have not confirmed this by research) -- that Mr. Obama already is trying to FORCE ob/gyns to perform abortions. That would be infinitely wrong to force anybody to perform one. Let a doctor make that choice, should s/he so choose. That is legal. Do NOT, however, change laws and force an individual to sin against his or her conscience. . . . (So, does anybody know whether my friend's assertion is correct ?)

 

I would say look at the gov't typical pattern of behavior (use education). Put you kid in their school & they will teach them about sex, diseases, etc as early as 4th grade (regardless of your parental preferences or relegion). They take my 8th grade neice (conservative, small town south) and let her put a condom on a cucumber in class (parents have no say.. it is education). They are also considering giving vaccinations at the schools this fall for swine flu & must DEBATE if parents need to be notified. (WHAT?). We don't know what is good for us or our children... THEY DO! (this is scary)

 

What makes us think MEDICINE will be any different? Except with things like education, you can OPT out (for now) but with this medical stuff, it will be MANDATORY! If China can force women in 7th month (in dark of night) to have abortion (I read many stories & testimonials).... why would our goverment (with complete control of your healthcare) not consider the same thing.

 

They are already critical of large families. They want vehicles that provide transport for large families off the road. They see these families as over consumers of natural resources.... abusing the environement (it has been published & is not secret).

 

It think she is correct but do not know if this bill covers this kind of issue ... but it is coming if they pay.... you do as they say!

[Perry]

They are also considering giving vaccinations at the schools this fall for swine flu & must DEBATE if parents need to be notified. (WHAT?).

 

 

Where did you hear this?

[Perry]

They take my 8th grade neice (conservative, small town south) and let her put a condom on a cucumber in class (parents have no say.. it is education).

 

At our local ps parents can review all curriculum and opt out of anything. I thought that was standard.

[Dirtroad]

Amen and amen, Gretchen!!

 

 

I agree also. I have mentioned a friend who eats very well (nearly 350#, no job)... and continues to buy scrapbooking supplies... but she can't afford health care & won't pay her bills. She also have a 22 year old son at home with no job & supports him b/c he is her baby.

 

I have a relative who owns a business... has money to burn & spends gawdy amounts on his kids (every latest gadget & tossed before old)... but he has no insurance on himself & his kids. Yet... tries to not pay hospital for appendicitis. He thinks hospitals & insurance companies are crooks. He goes only in emergencies or under force. He gets his lawyer to negotiate & will only pay upon threat of lawsuit.

 

I have a relative who does nothing to change health issues, but whines about insurance costs & not enough to cover his 12 pills per month. Stop smoking & lose a bit of weight & he won't need all those pills. But easier to blame our horrible medical system.

 

There are cases that fall in the cracks. There wil be more when the gov't is in control... and there will be many rejected b/c they are no longer useful to society (90 year old won't need a pacemaker... Obama made that one clear already). However, most "hard luck" cases that I know are SELF INDUCED & the people are looking for handouts NOT SOLUTIONS.

It is frustrating.

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

"According to Merriam Webster dictionary Socialism is defined as: "any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods"

 

I know, politicians throw out the word socialism and people begin to freak out because they automatically associate it with communism and evil when in reality there is actually some good in socialism. There are alot of things in America that are "socialist-like". For example fire fighters and police officers and teachers."

 

I found this on yahoo and I would posit that America also has other socialist-like entities such as our military, public libraries, and highways and the department of transportation that maintain them that all benefit the common good. I cannot imagine doing without these entities. I know that some of these public serivce entities could use improving such as our schools, but that does not mean they are inherently evil or are leading us into communism.

 

We live in the greatest country in the world in my book and have a strong democracy. I am not afraid of our country becoming a communist country or a dictatorship.

 

I do not see our country's capitalistic way of life as incompatible with a public healthcare option. Consider the luxury vehicles that many in our country yearn (except me:tongue_smilie:) for such as Mercedes Benz, Audi, Porshe, BMW come from a country with a long standing institution of public healthcare. I can only see our companies benefitting from a public healthcare option by not having to bear the onerous costs of healthcare premiums.

Edited July 17, 2009 by priscilla
spelling

[Dirtroad]

Where did you hear this?

 

It was recently on a news article about vaccinations. I am sorry to not remember author. They were discussing the ways the vaccination program could be implemented in high risk areas. Several options were discussed...but the common thread was do it at the school. The bigger shock (for me) was one part about not worrying about consent. That is why the article stuck in my "craw". I am hopeful that nonsense was abandoned. BUt people need to be on their toes.

 

Now I think this would not hold up in court... but by then, your poor child, has had the shot. Just like the poor kids who have gotten gynecological exams in elementary grades.... then parents found out & tried to take action. Didn't help the trauma for those babies!

[Perry]

It was recently on a news article about vaccinations. I am sorry to not remember author. They were discussing the ways the vaccination program could be implemented in high risk areas. Several options were discussed...but the common thread was do it at the school. The bigger shock (for me) was one part about not worrying about consent. That is why the article stuck in my "craw". I am hopeful that nonsense was abandoned. BUt people need to be on their toes.

 

Now I think this would not hold up in court... but by then, your poor child, has had the shot. Just like the poor kids who have gotten gynecological exams in elementary grades.... then parents found out & tried to take action. Didn't help the trauma for those babies!

 

Well, whoever said it was wrong. It would be against the law. I can assure you there are no plans to vaccinate without parental consent.

[Dirtroad]

At our local ps parents can review all curriculum and opt out of anything. I thought that was standard.

 

A friend in GA was able to opt her child out & they kept him home for the day. They told him "all about it" but it was his DAD and not some teacher/stranger.

 

My neice didn't have that option - not same area. It is a part of health. So, it may very greatly by state or even districts. I don't know the legality... I just know it was very upsetting & reinforced my belief in homeschooling.

[iwka]

As I grew up not in the US, I was shocked when I learned about the costs of medical expenses, insurance, insurance availability, etc. This whole system is brutal and not just.

 

I think Americans are panicking about "socialised medicine", but they really don't know what that label means in different countries.

 

I just watched this Frontline program online (free) and there is an interesting review of medical systems in 5 countries: England, Japan, Germany, Taiwan and Switzerland. The most interesting was Switzerland as their system was very similar to the US, and they've changed it so it is more accessible and more affordable. Even the most conservative people are praising it now.

[Dirtroad]

Well, whoever said it was wrong. It would be against the law. I can assure you there are no plans to vaccinate without parental consent.

 

I assume it is illegal to give a elementary student a gynecological exam ( courts said so )... but a school did it.

 

I read it. I don't trust some "well intentioned" professional to not feel their ends would justify the means. We are see this attitude escalate & must be on our toes with it all. It is worrisome.

[Shenan]

Where did you hear this?

 

Swine Flu Shots at Public Schools

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5hXFe712UD7TL1akfJ1qCC6SEs1hQD99B59G02

[AnotherE]

I agree also. I have mentioned a friend who eats very well (nearly 350#, no job)... and continues to buy scrapbooking supplies... but she can't afford health care & won't pay her bills. She also have a 22 year old son at home with no job & supports him b/c he is her baby.

 

I have a relative who owns a business... has money to burn & spends gawdy amounts on his kids (every latest gadget & tossed before old)... but he has no insurance on himself & his kids. Yet... tries to not pay hospital for appendicitis. He thinks hospitals & insurance companies are crooks. He goes only in emergencies or under force. He gets his lawyer to negotiate & will only pay upon threat of lawsuit.

 

I have a relative who does nothing to change health issues, but whines about insurance costs & not enough to cover his 12 pills per month. Stop smoking & lose a bit of weight & he won't need all those pills. But easier to blame our horrible medical system.

 

There are cases that fall in the cracks. There wil be more when the gov't is in control... and there will be many rejected b/c they are no longer useful to society (90 year old won't need a pacemaker... Obama made that one clear already). However, most "hard luck" cases that I know are SELF INDUCED & the people are looking for handouts NOT SOLUTIONS.

It is frustrating.

 

It is very frustrating, I agree. I just don't think it should be a death sentence. If a person makes poor choices, doesn't buy insurance, and is diagnosed with a serious disease should they be denied life-saving medicine because of those choices? I certainly wish I wasn't dumping extra money monthly into my HSA in case the awful happens, but I wouldn't begrudge another person medical help because they didn't. I'm not saying I'd be happy about it, but my faith tells me it is the right thing to do. I understand not everyone shares my religious beliefs, though.

[Perry]

I assume it is illegal to give a elementary student a gynecological exam ( courts said so )... but a school did it.

 

I read it. I don't trust some "well intentioned" professional to not feel their ends would justify the means. We are see this attitude escalate & must be on our toes with it all. It is worrisome.

 

There's always the possibility that some individual is going to go rogue and do something against the law. But as public policy? No way would they do mass vaccinations without consent.

[Perry]

Swine Flu Shots at Public Schools

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5hXFe712UD7TL1akfJ1qCC6SEs1hQD99B59G02

 

Where's the part about no consent?

[Kathleen in VA]

I have all kinds of reason why I don't support government health insurance.

 

But this audio clip from Ronald Reagan against socialized medicine sums up my thoughts. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fRdLpem-AAs

 

I wish people could understand the real problem with government ran anything. This is a old clip and since that time the US has moved more toward social ideas. The people want the government taking care them.

 

Wow! I'm surprised no one else has quoted this before me. Excellent video!!

 

This whole healthcare reform bill seems to simply be a ruse for taking all our freedoms away eventually. Of course, no one wants anyone to suffer and not get medical care just because they cannot afford it. That is why instituting socialism with socialized medicine is the preferred method. Who can argue with taking care of poor sick folks? Only problem is, socialized medicine leads to socialized everything else and that is exactly what it is meant to do.

 

If you haven't listened to this 10-minute youtube video, please do so now.

[Dirtroad]

There's always the possibility that some individual is going to go rogue and do something against the law. But as public policy? No way would they do mass vaccinations without consent.

 

I have greatly goofed. Pregnant brain or poor reading skills.... I misread the part about no have a surprise over parental consent "notes".

 

THANK GOODNESS! I honesly misread the sentence & was greatly alarmed that they would do it b/c that is such a huge issue. But I have heard of cases of schools & med. professionals overstepping bounds and the idea of them doing this didn't seem that unbelieveable. So sorry. Thank you Shenan for finding the article. I didn't remember where I read it. That is what I get for running on memory from quick reading at night... sorry guys.

Edited July 17, 2009 by Dirtroad