dragons in the flower bed Posted July 9, 2009 Share Posted July 9, 2009 (edited) At age four, my child was doing second grade math. I thought I had a genius on my hands. At age five, my child was doing second grade math. Okay. Yay. In first grade, my child was doing... second grade math. Huh. In second grade, we just focused on math facts, and failed to learn them. In third grade everything was soooo haaaard; all the kid could reliably do without me was second grade math. We took a spring break and just started fourth grade with the first Life of Fred books and Living Math. Suddenly it all clicks, and we have, "Mama, I forgot what you told me and accidentally read the whole book." "Okay, do the problems for the first chapter." "I did all the problems." "All of them?! Show me!" But, no, the kid actually did ALL the problems. So we're reading the Murderous Maths books, and stuff like The Number Devil, and doing a lot of word problems. Do you think my kid just learns fast, hits a developmental wall, waits four years, and learns fast again? Or do you think it was my approach, a LoF and real life-ish program, that helped? BTW, I meant to title my post, "What's up with this?" but hit enter on my keyboard accidentally. Edited July 9, 2009 by dragons in the flower bed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tree House Academy Posted July 9, 2009 Share Posted July 9, 2009 I would say this is called being a kid. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragons in the flower bed Posted July 10, 2009 Author Share Posted July 10, 2009 I would say this is called being a kid. ;) :tongue_smilie: Yes. My others are more slow and steady types. I never know which are the weirdos. :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melinda Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 I agree with Rebecca. I know my kids are little, but I am seeing this happen already. They will zoom through things and then slow almost to a stop, without any obvious reason. Then suddenly, it's like one day everything clicks and they zoom along again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zaichiki Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 I agree with Rebecca. I know my kids are little, but I am seeing this happen already. They will zoom through things and then slow almost to a stop, without any obvious reason. Then suddenly, it's like one day everything clicks and they zoom along again. But stop for three years??? I'm thinkin' there's gotta be somethin' else going on. Could the type of curriculum really have THAT much of an impact (positive or negative)??? I have no ideas to offer. I mean, mine do zip along for a while and then slow down, but... it's more like stair steps... and the run is never too much longer than the rise. Tho' I guess if you have a hugely steep rise, you could have a hugely steep run? ... I got nuthin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lionfamily1999 Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 This is probably a stupid question, but I'm going to ask anyway... At any point in all these years of second grade math, did you use third grade books? Is it possible that they just got so used to doing second grade math that once something new popped up they were stumped? I, sort of, did this in school. I accellerated so fast they removed me from half of my classes and let me sit in the fire escape... when I hit high school and there was new material, it took me a year to get used to having to learn again. Maybe that's all it is? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truscifi Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 I think the curriculum can have a huge impact - three years huge I'm not sure about, but still - based on the last year with my little guy. He was doing 3 column addition and subtraction at 4 yrs old at Montessori, then when his school closed and I decided to homeschool I went with Saxon math (which came well recommended). It was abolutely wrong for him, but in my foolishness as a first time homeschooler I stuck with the program through the whole year. He actually went backward. Some things he got a better foundation in - especially money and graphs - but mostly it was a disaster. We've spent the summer trying to fix the damage I did and get him to like math again. All that long winded answer was just to say, yes, curriculum can matter that much.:tongue_smilie: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragons in the flower bed Posted July 10, 2009 Author Share Posted July 10, 2009 This is probably a stupid question, but I'm going to ask anyway... At any point in all these years of second grade math, did you use third grade books? Is it possible that they just got so used to doing second grade math that once something new popped up they were stumped? We did Saxon K in K, and the kiddo just thought of it as a time to play with toys with me. Sometimes the kiddo would show me up, and I went with it, and that's what caused me to give a placement test then and realize the kid was functioning on a second grade level. Still, I wanted to cover my bases, so we did Developmental Math to the equivalent of second grade topics in 1st grade. We switched to Math-It for 2nd grade because I thought that maybe the reason we kept having to go back over these 3rd topics was that math facts hadn't been mastered. We did Singapore 2 and 3 once it became apparent that this math facts thing was killing the kid, and 2 was great, but 3 was sluggish and difficult and the kiddo just could not remember how to do stuff we just read about three pages before. So we stopped around April of this year. Three weeks ago we went on to LoF Fractions, figuring, hey, maybe we can work on those basic arithmetic skills concurrently, but kiddo hates math right now and that is NOT good. It turned out, though, in these first couple of weeks of doing that concurrent thing, that the child no longer has ANY issue with long division or three digit multiplication or remembering whether the numerator or denominator is on top. It's like chili: you know how the longer it sits in the bowl in the fridge, the better it tastes? I let my kid's mathiness sit for three months in the cold and bam, yummy chili. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragons in the flower bed Posted July 10, 2009 Author Share Posted July 10, 2009 I, sort of, did this in school. I accelerated so fast they removed me from half of my classes and let me sit in the fire escape... when I hit high school and there was new material, it took me a year to get used to having to learn again. Maybe that's all it is? No, my child was definitely trying to do third grade material and finding it too difficult. In fact, thinking of you sitting in the fire escape (I did the same thing, only they sent me to the library) makes me feel it probably was developmental in some way. As I think on it, I'm realizing this isn't the only change to come upon us right now: this kiddo is suddenly reading the news, having opinions about theology, taking deep breaths when the little ones are annoying, reading subtext between the adults in the room. I would say we've hit that mystical logic stage I'm not sure I believe in, but this is my little Spock, not even, this is my Sarek, and what I'm seeing now is an awareness of the subtlety of emotional context; the kid is using intuition and trusting in things that can't be reasoned out (at least, by many of us), like why long division works. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reya Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 :tongue_smilie: Yes. My others are more slow and steady types. I never know which are the weirdos. :D Welcome to my kind of weird! *shakes head* Wanna hear mine???? Work is WAY TOO DIFFICULT: DS confused, makes no headway, but gives it a go TOO DIFFICULT: Tackles it, makes some headway, may or may not get an answer DIFFICULT: Flies through. Spends more time writing than thinking of answers. NOT HARD, NOT EASY: Completely shuts down. A LITTLE EASY: Might do it. Might shut down. VERY EASY: Flies through it but complains. Now, teach to THAT every day. *beats head against wall* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reya Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 trusting in things that can't be reasoned out (at least, by many of us), like why long division works. Eeek! Well, part of the problem might be in that statement--you were asking of a child who must understand to just do things rather than to, well, understand them. RightStart would have given you a good shot at avoiding the situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donna Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 Eeek! Well, part of the problem might be in that statement--you were asking of a child who must understand to just do things rather than to, well, understand them. RightStart would have given you a good shot at avoiding the situation. I was going to suggest something along these lines. My 7yo hates to do her math facts. She still counts on her fingers to add/subtract and skip counts to multiply/divide. Not saying she isn't learning them while using them because she is and nearly has them all memorized at this point but she has been doing addition/subtraction since she was 4yo when she also understood the "why" behind multiplication and division. We just didn't stop her at a lower grade level and wait until she had the facts to move on. I kept her moving on concepts and expected (as turned out to be true) that she would get the facts when she felt the need to know them in order to work more quickly. She is doing math concepts at a much higher level and even understands some of the preAlgebra I do with her older brother (she explained it to him one day). She understands long division, multiplying large numbers, square roots, solving for X, etc... So, I was thinking, maybe your child was "stuck" on the basic facts when his brain could have handled higher level concepts. To you, it looked like no progress because he still didn't have the facts solid but his brain was really working on other things. Just a thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lionfamily1999 Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 Okay, so you did try to move ahead... maybe your chili analogy is exactly what's going on. The facts just need to marinate. Side note, I did not understand less than or greater than using the signs until I was in Algebra I. I just never understood what the teacher was saying, it was like they would magically transform into a Charlie Brown teacher whenever that came up (Wawa wawawawa wa). I finally had a teacher that explained the Pac Man system... I was his star pupil, lol, and I missed that basic fact. I guess just let him run while it's running and let him soak when he needs it... What a fun situation to be in :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragons in the flower bed Posted July 10, 2009 Author Share Posted July 10, 2009 Eeek! Well, part of the problem might be in that statement--you were asking of a child who must understand to just do things rather than to, well, understand them. RightStart would have given you a good shot at avoiding the situation. I wasn't at first. At first I assumed that my child would have no issue with understanding this. We did it with unit blocks and we drew pictures and it didn't help. We came to the point in the past month where we decided long division is an algorithm that plays on place value and inverse operations, and we understood that, and that was enough understanding to remember how to do it. But I do think there's intuition involved in math. At least, for me, the patterns tend to form off in the peripheral vision of my mind's eye; and i have to turn my conscious thinking off for a minute to let the spark of new insight light up and call attention to itself. It's like trying to remember a word you've temporarily forgotten. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
East Coast Sue Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 Dragons in the Flowerbed- Is your son by any chance left-handed? Just curious, my dd is a lefty with language on both sides of her brain (this apparantly happens with about 10%-15% of left-handed people according to our pediatric neurologist). Anyway, Life of Fred totally clicked for her b/c its a language based approach to math. She absolutely loves math now- however, prior to this it was a difficult subject even though she was obviously very advanced in math. So glad that you are homeschooling and persistent enough to find what works for your child!!! Sue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragons in the flower bed Posted July 10, 2009 Author Share Posted July 10, 2009 Is your son by any chance left-handed? Just curious, my dd is a lefty with language on both sides of her brain (this apparantly happens with about 10%-15% of left-handed people according to our pediatric neurologist). Huh! No, actually, the kiddo is ambidextrous. I don't know if it actually runs in families, but my brother and ex-husband are both also ambis. So glad that you are homeschooling and persistent enough to find what works for your child!!! Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skaterbabs Posted July 11, 2009 Share Posted July 11, 2009 Dot does that; we're pushing through CLE pretty quickly. She shuts down on things she already knows, making it hard when she comes to something new to learn. (Granted, at this point we haven't come to many of those.) yet other times she takes it and runs with it. Today she learned "congruent" in about five minutes. :tongue_smilie: Okay, so you did try to move ahead... maybe your chili analogy is exactly what's going on. The facts just need to marinate. Side note, I did not understand less than or greater than using the signs until I was in Algebra I. I just never understood what the teacher was saying, it was like they would magically transform into a Charlie Brown teacher whenever that came up (Wawa wawawawa wa). I finally had a teacher that explained the Pac Man system... I was his star pupil, lol, and I missed that basic fact. I guess just let him run while it's running and let him soak when he needs it... What a fun situation to be in :grouphug: I horribly upset my boys when teaching Dot greater/less than. They learned the alligator, I taught Dot to visualize a snake eating the bigger number. They were offended that I taught her snake instead of alligator, but I can't draw an alligator! LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lionfamily1999 Posted July 11, 2009 Share Posted July 11, 2009 I horribly upset my boys when teaching Dot greater/less than. They learned the alligator, I taught Dot to visualize a snake eating the bigger number. They were offended that I taught her snake instead of alligator, but I can't draw an alligator! LOL LOL, we used Pac Man, I can draw some Pac Man ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skaterbabs Posted July 11, 2009 Share Posted July 11, 2009 I could probably do Pac Mac, but an artist I am NOT. :p An alligator was well beyond my abilities. :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mommy22alyns Posted July 11, 2009 Share Posted July 11, 2009 Okay, so you did try to move ahead... maybe your chili analogy is exactly what's going on. The facts just need to marinate. That is so funny because I was telling DH the other day that's how Becca is with math. She's like a tough cut of beef - needs time to marinate. She doesn't get it when you tell her the first time, but the next day she's spouting all this stuff off and I'm flabbergasted - she actually learned it?!?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mommy22alyns Posted July 11, 2009 Share Posted July 11, 2009 LOL, we used Pac Man, I can draw some Pac Man ;) As a child of the 80's, I am a fan of the Pac Man. Becca understands that too since she's played my plug-in game! :001_huh: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lionfamily1999 Posted July 11, 2009 Share Posted July 11, 2009 That is so funny because I was telling DH the other day that's how Becca is with math. She's like a tough cut of beef - needs time to marinate. She doesn't get it when you tell her the first time, but the next day she's spouting all this stuff off and I'm flabbergasted - she actually learned it?!?! I'm like that with many things. I have to let them roll around in my head for awhile, to compare them with what I already know and really examine what I've added/learned. It's funny, because when I least expect it a connection pops up, in my head, and then it all makes sense. As a child of the 80's, I am a fan of the Pac Man. Becca understands that too since she's played my plug-in game! :001_huh: Can you believe... my sister has the record for Mr. and Mrs. Pacman and the kids LOVE it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasharowan Posted July 12, 2009 Share Posted July 12, 2009 Can you believe... my sister has the record for Mr. and Mrs. Pacman and the kids LOVE it. We have that album and the kids loved to play it when the player worked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.