Wheaton or Grove City College

[creekland]

Anyone with any experiences at either of these two - pro or con?

 

My son wants to major in Community/Economic/Global Development (name changes with regards to the college) and wants to do it with a Christian slant. Neither of these schools offer it as a major directly (as Covenant or Eastern do), but they each have 'ways' of getting to his goal - hence they are still under consideration. I'd really like more than one or two schools to be considering/comparing and not so many offer his major directly...

 

Other schools to consider would be appreciated (in the Eastern half of the US due to our location).

[Leanna Tomlinson]

Here's a link to majors/minors at Cedarville University. Cedarville is a Christian University in SW Ohio in the "triangle" of Cincinnati, Dayton, and Columbus. I don't see your ds's major listed directly, but Ohio is definitely close to PA.

http://www.cedarville.edu/admissions/majors.cfm

 

My dd will be a sophmore there this fall. I'd be happy to answer any questions.

HTH,

Leanna

[Maryalice]

My #2, dd, is a rising Senior at GCC. We love GCC and I hope that my other children go there. She started out thinking of doing Architecture, then Mech. Engr, then Entrepreneur Business, then (what she enrolled in her freshman year) Business Economics, then (sigh we're almost done) Economics and as of last semester, she is going to graduate as a math major. She is now looking at PhD programs in Economics. I have felt very comfortable with the campus as for safety and consistent with our values.

 

I don't know much about Wheaton, but I am sure that it is a good college as well.

[Starr]

How about Gordon College (non-denominational Christian) near Boston? I've heard it ranks with Wheaton for academics.

[Lisa Kjeld...in CA]

My 10th grader is convinced GCC is the college for him. I hate that it's so far away (we're in CA) but I'm thankful for the good reports I continue to hear about GCC. He wants to major in Economics; I wonder how many times he'll change his major!

 

My #2, dd, is a rising Senior at GCC. We love GCC and I hope that my other children go there.

 

 

Joy!

Lisa

[mysterious_jedi]

Covenant! I am a current student. My cousins are Comm Dev majors, the program is excellent.

 

Do be advised that the product does not always match the advertising when it comes to Covenant: in reality, we are a liberal arts college with a Christian worldview. If you have any questions, email me at csinclair(at)covenant(dot)edu.

 

Also, I believe the statistics say something like 20% of Covenant students were homeschooled. I think that is how many actually graduated from homeschool. Most of us (I'd guess 70 or 80%) were homeschooled at some point, myself (and my cousins) included!

 

(Yes, I know it's a little strange for a college student to be reading homeschool forums, but I find it interesting!)

[creekland]

Covenant! I am a current student. My cousins are Comm Dev majors, the program is excellent.

 

Do be advised that the product does not always match the advertising when it comes to Covenant: in reality, we are a liberal arts college with a Christian worldview. If you have any questions, email me at csinclair(at)covenant(dot)edu.

 

Also, I believe the statistics say something like 20% of Covenant students were homeschooled. I think that is how many actually graduated from homeschool. Most of us (I'd guess 70 or 80%) were homeschooled at some point, myself (and my cousins) included!

 

(Yes, I know it's a little strange for a college student to be reading homeschool forums, but I find it interesting!)

 

Covenant is one of his top choices at the moment - thanks for responding! I just finished reading Dr Fikkert/Steve Corbett's new book, When Helping Hurts - How to Alleviate Poverty Without Hurting the Poor and Yourself - quite an interesting read.

 

I guess I can assume you like it there. :)

[mysterious_jedi]

Covenant is one of his top choices at the moment - thanks for responding! I just finished reading Dr Fikkert/Steve Corbett's new book, When Helping Hurts - How to Alleviate Poverty Without Hurting the Poor and Yourself - quite an interesting read.

 

I guess I can assume you like it there. :)

 

I absolutely like it here! :D

[Chris in VA]

Just wanted to say that Wheaton is considered the "Christian Harvard." It's very, very challenging, competitive to get in to, very Ivy League in a way.

And, just because it's Christian doesn't mean there aren't a lot of nominal Christians--sometimes parents send their kids there to be around a lot of Christians because their kid needs a good influence.

This info from a Wheaton graduate.

[5knights3maidens]

My oldest ds graduated last year from GCC in Economics. People always say that it is a very good, challenging college. If you are very conservative, really check into it.

[creekland]

And, just because it's Christian doesn't mean there aren't a lot of nominal Christians--sometimes parents send their kids there to be around a lot of Christians because their kid needs a good influence.

This info from a Wheaton graduate.

 

This seems to be true of all Christian colleges from what I've been hearing. However, the major this son wants more or less requires a Christian college for him to not have to leave his faith at the door of the classroom... we've visited secular counterparts. He was not impressed. I'm still debating whether to take the trip out to Wheaton or not. Economic issues are an issue with us and many people have told us they don't really do financial aid. His grades, extra curr. activities and SAT score should make him a possible candidate, but he's not in the upper 25%, so probably wouldn't score much in merit aid either.

 

Grove City is closer, so will be at least worth a visit. We've already been to Covenant and have eliminated Eastern. Other suggested colleges don't appear to have his preference as a major unless I'm missing something on their web sites.

[creekland]

My oldest ds graduated last year from GCC in Economics. People always say that it is a very good, challenging college. If you are very conservative, really check into it.

 

If you don't mind my asking... was your oldest able to find a job in his major? If my oldest goes there he will be an Economics major... since they don't have Development as a choice. If he goes to Covenant he plans to double major in Economics and Development. Jobs in Development are low paying, of course, but it's what he really wants to do and he seems to be a good match for the major. The Economics major will be more or less a back up - plus extra knowledge just to have.

 

"Very conservative" - did you mean politically or as in student "rules" lifestyle? We're not looking for a Pensacola Christian type of place... but are ok with conservative politics.

[MomsintheGarden]

Have you considered Geneva College? They are a small teaching-oriented college about 45 minutes north of Pittsburgh, and they have a Business degree with a concentration in Finance/Economics. We visited this past March and were very impressed with the school.

 

Check their catalog for all the business degree options. They also have a several attractive minors available in English, a valuable skill for anyone in Development.

 

GardenMom

[Anne]

Last I heard, Wheaton did not offer any type of merit aid. However, if you're in the market for need-based aid, you might be more successful.

 

Anne

[TravelingChris]

WE are considering Wheaton since our daughter will be getting her father's GI benefits and that should pay everything. I saw on their website that they offer a very small amount of merit pay. Most very competetive schools don't offer hardly any if any at all merit pay.

[creekland]

Have you considered Geneva College?

GardenMom

 

Yes, they are one of the schools that called my son, but they don't really have what he is looking for at all. He'd have to major in sociology there (they said) - not something that is appealing to him. He wants Economics at the very least if not the double major.

[5knights3maidens]

If you don't mind my asking... was your oldest able to find a job in his major? If my oldest goes there he will be an Economics major... since they don't have Development as a choice. If he goes to Covenant he plans to double major in Economics and Development. Jobs in Development are low paying, of course, but it's what he really wants to do and he seems to be a good match for the major. The Economics major will be more or less a back up - plus extra knowledge just to have.

 

"Very conservative" - did you mean politically or as in student "rules" lifestyle? We're not looking for a Pensacola Christian type of place... but are ok with conservative politics.

 

Ds just found a job for Financial Planning. He was working alot in restaurants.

[coopers5]

to Christian schools. It's just a fact that there's not as much money given by these really strong Christian institutions. Some people reason it out that it may be largely because many of the graduates go into fields that don't necessarily make them "millionaires" so they cannot give back to the school as with many of the secular institutions.

 

That could very well be. Whatever the reason, it's very, very sad and disappointing and I feel like some of these really good schools - Covenant, Grove City, Cedarville - will only continue to attract folks who either are A. very wealthy and can afford to send their kids, no questions asked, or B. kids who don't mind being in debt for years to come. I truly hate it.

 

I wish there was a way they could more effectively attract and give to students who are so academically deserving, as well as middle/lower class; a way they could "compete" for the academically gifted with schools like Vanderbilt, the ivies, and others that have lots of endowments.....

 

What do I know?

 

ah well.

[MomsintheGarden]

The Christian schools we are considering for our daughter, Liberty and Geneva, will both give our dd at least full tuition in merit aid because of her PSAT score. Neither is rated highly in academics, but it will be very possible for her to get an excellent education at either one of them. We were impressed with the commitment of the Geneva professors to teach. They went out of their way to get to know us during our visit. The head of the Chemistry department recently sent her a handwritten note with the new degree requirements for her prospective major.

 

We looked into Covenant, Wheaton, Grove City, Messiah, Patrick Henry, Cedarville, and others, and they either don't give a lot of merit aid or they don't meet our criteria in other ways. Naturally, your family's needs will be different from ours.

 

If you have a student who tests well, it would be worth your while to have him/her study for and take the PSAT in the junior year. The National Merit competition has made all the difference in whether or not our dd will be able to attend a Christian college.

 

GardenMom

Edited July 29, 2009 by MomsintheGarden
Typos

[creekland]

We looked into Covenant, Wheaton, Grove City, Messiah, Patrick Henry, Cedarville, and others, and they either don't give a lot of merit aid or they don't meet our criteria in other ways. Naturally, your family's needs will be different from ours.

 

If you have a student who tests well, it would be worth your while to have him/her study for and take the PSAT in the junior year. The National Merit competition has made all the difference in whether or not our dd will be able to attend a Christian college.

 

GardenMom

 

It's too late for my oldest to take the PSAT - he's a senior this year. He might have been able to qualify for scholarships, but his writing is weak compared to the rest of his scores (partially my fault for not getting him used to timed writing tests). Of course, since writing isn't on the PSAT, who knows? My middle son will be taking the PSAT his Jr year and has a reasonable chance at getting to be a merit finalist if his practice scores are any indication.

 

Otherwise, for his major, he has a chance at getting a 50 - 60% scholarship at Covenant which would make a big difference, plus we really like the Department there. My only 'negative' has been that it's such a small school, but I think I'm getting over that. It has a decent rep otherwise and the profile of students puts mine on the high side, but not so high he'd be too far out.

 

Wheaton I'm still debating on. All the stats look good. My son would be on the high side for their math, right in the middle with their reading, and low on writing, so merit aid is not likely to happen. We might still visit and see what we think.

 

Grove City we still need to check with. He'd either do Economics or Entrepreneurship there. It's a distinct possibility.

 

The others don't really meet our needs in other ways with this particular major and this son. I still need to check out Baylor as it might be where my middle son goes (he'll be looking for microbio/premed) and it could be really convenient if they both end up at the same place, but it's not really a 'need.'

 

Our 'needs' are a good dept for a good education within his major, a good education outside his major, good potential for employment in his major after graduating, appealing to him, affordable for us, and generally located in the eastern half of the US (for travel purposes). There, I'm not requiring TOO much, am I? All the rest are details I'm mulling over in my mind. I love reading ALL that people have to say about various colleges (secular and Christian) as it's really helping me narrow down my own thoughts.

Edited July 28, 2009 by creekland
Edited to remove personal feelings that others might take the wrong way.

[Samuel]

Some comments related to development, as I work in a related field

 

1. Most jobs beyond entry level will require a masters. Accordingly, doing well (3.7+) is important, particularly because, Wheaton excepted, most schools on the list won't be particularly well known by grad schools.

 

2. Many related jobs will require language skills. If your son does not have language skills, he should take enough (through an advanced/3rd year) at the college level to be convergent in a language.

 

3. Internships are important and can help land a job.

 

4. Consider that the the actual name of the degree (public policy, development study, development economics, international studies, political science (w/ dev. emphesis), intl. business etc will not matter as much as the skills developed, particularly at the UG level. The exception would be if there is an interest in intl finance, which would require specific degrees and competencies.

 

I would ask about recent grads. Where did they do internships (did they do them?) Where have they gotten jobs? What opportunties did they take advantage of. etc.

[MomsintheGarden]

It's too late for my oldest to take the PSAT - he's a senior this year.

Sorry! We missed having our oldest take the PSAT, too, not understanding the NM process. It's on the list for our other children.

 

The others don't really meet our needs in other ways with this particular major and this son. I still need to check out Baylor as it might be where my middle son goes (he'll be looking for microbio/premed) and it could be really convenient if they both end up at the same place, but it's not really a 'need.'

Is Baylor considered homeschool friendly now? I saw some articles a while ago about some problems. You might want to make sure.

 

Our 'needs' are a good dept for a good education within his major, a good education outside his major, good potential for employment in his major after graduating, appealing to him, affordable for us, and generally located in the eastern half of the US (for travel purposes). There, I'm not requiring TOO much, am I? All the rest are details I'm mulling over in my mind. I love reading ALL that people have to say about various colleges (secular and Christian) as it's really helping me narrow down my own thoughts.

No, you absolutely are not requiring too much! We have a very long list of wants/needs! The college decision will affect so much in your child life - both in their career and personal lives.

 

Let us know how it all turns out!

GardenMom

[creekland]

Some comments related to development, as I work in a related field

 

1. Most jobs beyond entry level will require a masters. Accordingly, doing well (3.7+) is important, particularly because, Wheaton excepted, most schools on the list won't be particularly well known by grad schools.

 

2. Many related jobs will require language skills. If your son does not have language skills, he should take enough (through an advanced/3rd year) at the college level to be convergent in a language.

 

3. Internships are important and can help land a job.

 

4. Consider that the the actual name of the degree (public policy, development study, development economics, international studies, political science (w/ dev. emphesis), intl. business etc will not matter as much as the skills developed, particularly at the UG level. The exception would be if there is an interest in intl finance, which would require specific degrees and competencies.

 

I would ask about recent grads. Where did they do internships (did they do them?) Where have they gotten jobs? What opportunties did they take advantage of. etc.

 

Many thanks for your thoughts. I know that both Covenant and Wheaton require a 3 - 6 month internship as part of their degree/certificate and I definitely consider that one of the big 'pluses' to their programs. I'll definitely keep it in mind when visiting Grove City as I have no idea how they handle it (yet).

 

We talked with 'soon-to-be' graduates at Covenant when we were there and were fairly impressed with the job opportunities they had. I'm seriously thinking of sending an e-mail to the college asking for some graduates I can contact who have been out in the field for, say, 5 years to see what they recommend.

 

This son is fairly specific with his wants at this point. Actually studying the field might open up other ideas. He loves finances and strategy - and is gifted in those areas. He's looked at - and been part of - relief efforts both domestic and overseas (a little bit considering he's a teen). Then with the current thought of relief, rehabilitation, and development, he's zeroed in on development as his choice in matching his desire for business/finances and helping others. Hence, his desire for a double major in either business or economics - not sociology.

 

I am a little concerned with exactly how specific he wants, but on the other hand, I can't deny that all of this matches his gifts, so... we'll see what happens.

 

As far as grades, he's always been at the top, both when he was in public school (through 8th grade) and since we've been homeschooling (as per national tests). Anything in the math, science, history or strategy field comes super easily to him and has since he's been 18 months old when he loved to show off that he could do puzzles designed for much older kids. He's also #1 on the public school's Chess Team - though I don't think he needs to make a career of that! That all said, only time will tell how much he buckles down in college - or once classes start to get challenging - if they ever do for him. They haven't yet. We hit Calc and Physics this year so we'll see :) Writing is his weak point, but he's figured that out when he only got 570 on that part of the SAT (far lower than his other scores) and has since buckled down to 'fix' it. He never really took it seriously till then - nor does he enjoy English.

 

Ah, it's early morning and I'm rambling... but having typed it all I don't feel like deleting it. In short, while this major produces grads who go toward low paying jobs (though hopefully rewarding in other aspects), I think it is a good match for him, so we'll see what happens. We do need to keep it affordable though. He certainly won't need tons of college loans and we have 3 kids to put through college in the next few years (youngest is starting 8th grade). With the economy hitting our investments... we're just going to have to see what happens. We can help, but not to the tune of 30K+ per year per son.

 

We did look at secular options (visited state schools), but he wants Christian (and we don't mind that either - esp for this major).

[creekland]

 

Is Baylor considered homeschool friendly now? I saw some articles a while ago about some problems. You might want to make sure.

 

 

 

I'll have to check. No one has mentioned problems with it so far... but I haven't looked into it to the extent I have with the others as it's mainly been on my radar for middle son (who's starting 10th this year). I'd been told (hearsay - unofficial) that they offer free rides to NM finalists, so that caught my attention. Then I mainly looked into their medical and pre-med programs since they are ranked fairly high on many lists.

[creekland]

With regards to Baylor, their website doesn't appear to be unfriendly to homeschoolers. Here's their listed requirements:

 

 

Home Schools & Private Schools

 

 

 

 

 

 

Though the admission process is very similar to students who come from a public high-school, there are a few differences you should be aware of:

 

1) Baylor abides by the Code of Federal Regulations. According to Title IV, any degree-seeking student who graduates from either a private school or a home school that is not recognized by the state in which it is located must be 17 years of age before the first day of class. If a student does not meet this age requirement, we require a GED certificate prior to registration.

 

2) Every applicant must submit a transcript for admission consideration. The transcript should include a list of all completed courses, grades received for each course, and other information pertinent to your educational background. If you decide to enroll at Baylor, you will need to send a final high school transcript that includes your graduation date. See a sample transcript or download a blank transcript.

3) A GED will not be required for a transfer student who is under 17 without a high school diploma approved by the state if the student has an Associate's degree and at least 60 hours of transferable credit.

 

------------------------------

 

I've never wanted to push my kids to do things before the 'normal' age of doing them, so I think mine will be fine - esp with national test scores to back up the transcript - should we decide to head that direction. Baylor is larger than my kids want... but to get research & medical (thinking 2nd son), I think he may have to look larger than his brother.

 

Edited to add:

 

Baylor is out for my oldest son. He simply does not want that large of a school and I see no reason to insist upon it when he has other choices. It's just a school matching student deal. I'll still consider it for my middle son in a couple of years - and pay attention in the meantime.

Edited July 29, 2009 by creekland

[Guest Katia]

A thought struck me while reading this thread, especially the information about Covenant being a liberal arts college with a Christian worldview:

 

Have you looked at Hillsdale College? My dd attends there and I'd have to say it is exactly a small, private, liberal arts college with a Christian worldview and conservative political stance. The academic standards there are very, very high.

 

And it's in southern Michigan, just north of the Ohio line....so not terribly far away from Penn. if that is a concern.

 

Everyone asks if my dd is attending a "Christian" college, and although Hillsdale is not advertised as Christian, nor does it have the word "Christian" in it's title, I'd have to say it is more Christian in both teaching and student body than the "Christian" college my older ds attended.

 

Worth checking out anyway. :001_smile:

[Shelly in the Country]

Chiming in late here...

 

DH and I are GCC alumni. It's a very good school...very challenging academically and genuinely Christian. It's also affordable as private colleges go. They do not take Federal money so any kind of Federal student loan is out. While we were there the financial aid people helped out with private loans though. I'm not really familiar with their economics department though so I cannot comment directly on that.

[dkholland]

and both my ds and I really liked what we saw and heard. My ds began with a short interview. It was quicker than he expected and he said there were three "get to know you" questions, and three "what about your future' questions and that was it. he was asked what are his strengths, of course. Thankfully, we practiced and he had an answer.

 

had a very thorough tour. Lots of neat areas for kids to studying and hang out. The campus is just big enough that you don't really need a bike. Did you know that Grove City has a retention rate of 92%! The campus is beautiful.

 

A few not so great things (according to my ds)....no AC in the dorms. Although it rarely gets hot there, except the day we visited, it was close to 90! Most of the dorms for freshman were quite old. All students agree to live on campus for the enitre four years. Also, there is not wireless internet in the dorms, only plug-in internet in the rooms. They are hoping for have the dorms wireless for 2011, I think. But, the academic buildings have wireless.

 

My ds is very interested in their Christian Thought major....has anyone hada ds or dd go through that program? he really is thinking about majoring in that or English, or both. But, i just wonder what he will do with that. Right now, he says he is not interested in pastoring or teaching.

 

We felt very at home on campus. There were only six students and their families on the tour with us, so it was very easy to ask questions.

 

I am hopng my ds will seriously consider going to GC even though finances will be an issue for us. He may get a scholarship of $5000, but only 24 incoming freshman get that. There seem to be lots of work opportunities on campus though.

 

We are looking at University of Richmond next week and Patrick Henry in Sept. I am finding it lots of fun to go and look at these schools. We have taken my ninth grader also, so when his time comes, he will already know about these schools.

[creekland]

We visited Grove city this week...

 

Thanks for the VERY informative report! We're still hoping to visit it, and Wheaton, later in Sept. I'd like to go earlier in Sept, but I don't think that's going to be workable.

[Shelly in the Country]

My ds is very interested in their Christian Thought major....has anyone hada ds or dd go through that program?

 

That was one of my majors at GCC. What do you want to know?

[coopers5]

Is anyone else on here considering one of their "college weekends?"

 

There's one in Sept and one in Oct for the fall.

 

We'd also like to get up to Grove City this sem. Please chime in any others of you who are thinking about making visits to these soon!

 

Thanks

Jo

[creekland]

Is anyone else on here considering one of their "college weekends?"

 

There's one in Sept and one in Oct for the fall.

 

We'd also like to get up to Grove City this sem. Please chime in any others of you who are thinking about making visits to these soon!

 

Thanks

Jo

 

I'm not quite sure if I want to go on one of their college weekends - we'll have to see. In general, I like to see a college on a 'normal' day - not a special one when they are more or less focused on advertising themselves.

 

IF we go to Wheaton, it will be in late Sept or Oct. I'm still not sure we're going to it as my son really likes Covenant - and it has a really good department in what he wants to major in (Community Development). Wheaton just offers a certificate in the field. He is also much more likely to get decent aid from Covenant - and for our income, 3 sons about to go to college in the next 5 years, and his intended major (low paying, but rewarding in other ways), cost IS a factor.

 

Ideally I'd love to go - just because - but in figuring costs.. it'll cost us roughly $1000+ to make the trip if we do it cheaply (gas/food/lodging for the 5 of us - and not counting work wages lost - we're self employed so no work = no income). That $1000+ could easily go toward tuition at Covenant (or Grove City). I'll look at actual finances in Sept and decide I suppose.

 

If you go, please write a trip report... ;)

[dkholland]

That was one of my majors at GCC. What do you want to know?

 

I guess for starters....what will be do with that degree?? My ds is a heavy thinker and loves to discuss theology. He really wants to write or be published. When we visited it seemed everyone we met majored in something else and minored in Christian Thought.

 

I know God can direct his thinking and career path, but from the view down here, i just wonder how ds will feed his family! :):)

[Shelly in the Country]

I guess for starters....what will be do with that degree?? My ds is a heavy thinker and loves to discuss theology. He really wants to write or be published. When we visited it seemed everyone we met majored in something else and minored in Christian Thought.

 

I know God can direct his thinking and career path, but from the view down here, i just wonder how ds will feed his family! :):)

 

Well, obviously I became a homemaker :lol:. Seriously though, most of the folks I knew who majored in Christian Thought went into the ministry. They went on to seminary after getting the 4 year degree in Christian Thought and became pastors and such. GCC has a really good program. I checked their department website the other day and some of the profs I had are still teaching there. I enjoyed that major a lot. I double majored in Psychology. I liked my Christian Thought classes a LOT more :001_smile:.