Question To All Livestock Owners

[Impish]

Ok, Wolf and I were talking/daydreaming about owning an acreage, and the one thing that's really important to us is that we become as self sufficient as possible. I'm absolutely buying the Encyclopedia of Country Living that someone referred me to in another thread, but in the meantime, I had a couple of questions for those already living in the situation.

 

How much (roughly) does a piglet/calf cost?

Do you buy chicks, eggs, or hens? Why? And how much do they cost (roughly)

Would you buy a dairy cow as a calf, or as a grown cow? And what would you expect to pay?

 

I'm totally clueless as to the worth of these animals, and I'm afraid that we'd go to an auction, for example, and way over pay, not knowing any better, lol!

 

Our goal, once we're on the acreage, is to be almost completely self sufficient within 3 years. I say almost because I know that I'm not going to be grinding wheat, making cheese, or churning butter :lol: Not to mention spinning thread, and weaving cloth! But, I figure if 90% of our food is being provided by us, its going to be so much better for our children, rather than eating the Frankenfood, hormonally shot up heaven knows what chemically induced food in the grocery stores they're eating now, for lack of a better option! On our budget, organic just isn't managable!

[Renee in NC]

Three years is a very high expectation unless you already have experience in small-scale farming. Have you had a garden yet? Providing your own food takes a large amount of space, time, knowledge, and flexibility.

 

Pigs - depends on the market, but we sold ours for about $40 a piece. Pigs need strong fences and then figure they will get out anyway. Pigs are very smart and they are too curious for their own goods!

 

Chickens - start with chicks. We used various mail order houses and got some from the local feed store. You can get hens, but I think chicks are cute and you can tame them if you start with chicks. You will need secure housung for chickens at night to keep them from being picked off by predators.

 

I don't have any experience with dairy cows and wouldn't have one anyway. Milk is not that important to me. Cows have to be milked twice a day everyday at the same time. It's a huge investment for milk.

 

Okay, so I am a little disillusioned. We started with chickens, moved to turkeys, rabbits, and goats, and eventually pigs. We went from a small square foot garden to a very large garden. We had a lot of loss (livestock and crops) - livestock to dogs (who, when loose, will roam for miles) and gardens to weather and bugs. In our learning curve, we spent too much money, made lots of mistakes, and burned ourselves out. We were on our farm for 5 years. The last straw came when we were BOTH working off farm to try and pay for it, I came home to the pigs loose (again) and while I was fixing the pig fence, the baby goat I had been tube feeding (rejected by his mama) died. It was horrible.

 

If I had to do it over again:

 

I would spend more time on other people's farms seeing what they have done and why.

 

I would have picked a better farm that didn't have massive drainage problems. Choice of farm is *the* most important thing, IMO.

 

I would have built the small cabin we originally intended instead of the 1300 square foot house we were talked into.

 

I would realize that going from zero knowledge other than what we read in books and some childhood farm experience to self-sufficiency would take MUCH longer than I thought. I would start with one area (gardening, for example) and master that before adding anything new.

 

I would spend less money. I would scavenge, freecycle, buy used, etc. I would trade services for services.

 

*I* would have been the one taking Sustainable Ag at the cc rather than my dh - he did because he had the GI Bill, but it was pretty worthless as he is not a school learner.

 

Sorry this is so long, but I do hope you find the lifestyle you are looking for. Expect some culture-shock! And chasing pigs!:lol:

 

ETA: Grinding wheat and making bread is easy - you could start that now!

Edited June 7, 2009 by Renee in FL

[amy g.]

Well, we moved here 3 years ago this month, so I can tell you what we have done so far.

 

First, we bought 3 dairy goats. Ours were about $350 apiece because we have show quality. My kids like showing, and I can recoup the investment by selling kids. This year, we had $2,500 worth of kids born. We also spent $100 on a livestock guardian dog who is worth her weight in gold.

 

We bought 25 chicks that were all supposed to be female, and 10 turkey poults. That was several hundred dollars, but I can not remember exactly how much. We traded a goat buckling for a well-behaved rooster, and some ducks. Now we hatch all of our replacement animals.

 

We bought a registered Dexter heifer for $750. We do not have a bull yet, so we will have to pay for breeding her this summer. I also bought a 2 year old bred Jersey for $2000. She was over priced, but I liked how calm she is, and the fact that she had tested negative for every disease I could think of. She is due to calve next month. If everything goes well, we will buy 2 or 3 pigs to raise on whey.

 

We spent another $1000 on portable electric fencing. We fenced off an area that was a tangle of brambles and vines. The animals cleared it for us. We will put the pigs there this fall, and the garden there next spring.

 

I spent $90 on heirloom seeds, but I'm saving the seeds from this year, and we should not need to buy those again.

 

We spend hundreds of dollars a month on feed, and medicine (stuff you need to have on hand in an emergency) wormers, minerals etc.

 

We have almost all of our infrastructure in place now. I'll need to buy one more goat in the spring, then we will have a closed herd. I think I can trade two baby goats for a registered bull......if my husband will let me.

 

We have the money put away to build a grade A dairy/commercial kitchen. Our hope is that if we can legally sell farm products, we can recover what we spend on feed.

 

I agree that the location is important. our property drains well, but I have friends whose animals are always in standing water. That can be expensive to try to fix. Our house came with a nice barn which has been wonderful.

 

I actually feel like we have been moving slowly. I do not want to burn out and quit, or even worse, have my husband and kids burn out. We have at least 4 hours of chores a day, which has been fantastic for my kids. I would not trade this way of life for anything, but it is a huge investment in both time and money.

[Renee in NC]

The feed was something we didn't realize was going to cost so much! We had the goal of being self-sufficient, but in order to do so we would have had to grow a tremendous amount of feed or (as Amy g said) sell enough farm product to pay for the feed. We did sell some pigs and chickens, but we were not able to sell enough (yet) to pay for our feed.

 

The other thing we didn't bargain on - jobs. Dh drove 40 miles each way to work for 3 of those 5 years (he worked about 15 miles away 1 year and spent the other year in school.) When we bought the acreage, gas was around $1.25 per gallon. When we decided to move last summer, it was closer to $4.00.

[Heather in the Kootenays]

I've raised all those animals in the past and am now down to chickens - 12 for eggs and 25 meat birds.

 

I found that the larger animals were really a hassle - fences down, etc, etc. It seemed like an annual ritual - on the day we were leaving for holidays, the steer would be grazing on the lawn instead of his pasture. I've since downsized from 5 to 1.5 acres.

 

In my quest to reduce my reliance on grocery stores, I'm now more focused on growing fruit and vegetables while trading with friends and neighbours for other things we need. For example, beef and grain comes from my friend's farm.

 

I try not to be too rigid about it because in my experience, that leads to burnout. I think about WHY I want to live this way in order to figure out where I can cheat a bit. My friends and I tend to community self reliance, rather than self sufficiency. Our latest foray is into the challenging world of growing vegetables year round in Canada.

 

If I was to do it again, I'd start small - buying at farmers markets, canning, simplfying my diet, making bread, and joining a community garden. I've been living like this for 12 years after a childhood spent around gardens, chickens, and cows and I'm still learning.

 

And most importantly, I'd find the joy in it all or it can burn you right out.

[Impish]

Thanks everyone. Your input is very much appreciated! We've talked about just buying meat from local farmers/neighbours as well, rather than raising them. Wolf would rather do the same with the chickens as well, as he loathes killing them. Basically, I'm doing a ton of research at this point, trying to figure out what our needs would be to make what work, what would be feasible, what wouldn't be.

 

He absolutely wants horses, which kinda makes me nutty. If you're going to have horses, then lets have some producing livestock too, kwim? I love horses, but they don't *work* in this day and age. They're for fun, period. Which is great, but a bit of a drain on the budget.

 

I also want Diva to get into 4H when we get an acreage, which will mean her raising livestock, so best to be prepared, lol

[amy g.]

I can not over state the value of community. We say that we are striving to be self-sufficient, but the venture makes us see how much we really have to be interdependent.

 

We trade dairy products to one neighbor for hay. Another neighbor is going to do our bookkeeping in exchange for products.

 

We had something scary happen last week that really made me thankful for our community. When I went out in the evening, I saw a goat holding her tail funny. I noticed she was having a tiny amount of frothy stool. Miss Good called her goat mentor who did not know what it was. By then, the goat had a fever of 105, and was grinding her teeth in pain.

 

Dh told me to call my aunt who has raised goats for 30 years. She said it was entrotoximia, and she would not live until morning without CD antitoxin. I thought I had that in my emergency kit, but I only had tetanus antitoxin.

 

We called the vet who confirmed that it was entro. He was willing to go back to the clinic for the medicine, but he was out of it. He said entro would kill the goat 4-24 hours from the first symptom.

 

We were able to call friends who were not home, but had the antitoxin in their barn fridge. They told us to just go and get it. We stayed up all night giving her 3 injections every 2 hours. The next morning, she was fine, but her mom had it, so it was another night of nursing, but both goats are fine now.

 

We would have been in so much trouble without a close support group.

 

It is very difficult to be good at all areas of food production. The ideal situation would be a co-op where you produced what you enjoyed, and were good at producing, and could trade with like-minded people for what they produced.

[Mekanamom]

It doesn't have to be all or nothing... you could still raise chickens just for the eggs to start with. Then later you can expand to meat birds if you want to.

 

LOL- yeah... horses. On one hand, they are surely expensive creatures that consume resources and also create a lot of work.

 

On the other hand... they will help you clear your land. (Just make sure you don't have anything poisonous or dangerous in your pasture.) You can compost their manure and use it in your garden. They do give back at least a little bit!

 

Each 4-H club is different, and ours really really focuses on show animals. They are not cheap! But sometimes you can make a profit at fair if you can get a good price for them. (Pigs, goats, beef, etc.) Again, with 4-H you can start small. You don't have to do all the projects- just pick one and expand as you go, if you still want to. Along the way, you will meet people who can help you get started and who can support you as you go!

[creekland]

He absolutely wants horses, which kinda makes me nutty. If you're going to have horses, then lets have some producing livestock too, kwim? I love horses, but they don't *work* in this day and age. They're for fun, period. Which is great, but a bit of a drain on the budget.

 

 

We've been on our farm for 12 years now... started with horses, ponies, steers (meat), pigs, and chickens as well as a large garden. We've morphed over the years to just having ponies, chickens and the garden... as the rest ended up being too much work - esp for traveling (our other love).

 

The ponies are actually the one livestock item that paid for themselves since we elected to breed show ponies... We don't show. I did as a kid and teen, but my boys don't have the 'horse' gene so we just raise them to sell, but most of our ponies go on to show... We breed and raise the ponies - as well as training them with ground manners. I do most of the vetting myself (otherwise you'd never make them break even). Any ponies still here by 3 or 4 years of age get sent out for training and sale from the show ring. When I can find suitable people, I do this on a free lease basis - offering a 50% commission on the sale... most sell in 90 - 120 days, so those doing the training make a reasonable profit themselves - esp if they have kids to assist, etc.

 

Last year they didn't pay for themselves with the down economy, but... time will tell for future years. More people have been shopping this year. I have 3 I plan to send out to be trained soon...

 

That said... I can't really recommend jumping in head first if you don't have the experience with horses... I had oodles of years of experience growing up... but I did get a kick out of the 'money drain' comment...

 

I love living on a farm and wouldn't have it any other way till hubby and I (perhaps with our youngest) set out for traveling 24/7 in our Class B... A farm is a GREAT place to raise kids IMO and I love the space and privacy as well as the homegrown food.

[WishboneDawn]

I can not over state the value of community. We say that we are striving to be self-sufficient, but the venture makes us see how much we really have to be interdependent.

 

That's the thing. I tend to see the idea of being fully self-sufficient as a bit of an illusion. We have a pretty radical notion of the individual in the west and self-sufficiency comes from that. But really, it denies the role community has always played, even when pioneers were were first building their homesteads. We can't do it all so maybe it's better to focus on what you can do and what you can do for the community that would give you some bartering/trading power.

 

That's my focus. We're just beginning. Our new house has a few acres and has a heat and cooking source independent of the grid. We've got a couple of acres for fruit trees, veggie gardens and a stocked fish pond. We'll probably be getting laying hens in the next year. And there will be lots of other things.

 

But who can do it all? And why would you want to? When the neighbour is raising pigs but needs something you can offer why bother raising pigs yourself?

[Impish]

By 'self sufficient' I mean no more grocery stores for the most part. Not having to wonder where our food comes from, or what its tainted with, that sort of thing.

 

I'd love to barter with neighbours, trade things about! That's wonderful! :D I'll definitely be keeping my eyes and ears open for a co-op when we're looking to buy!

 

The money drain comment came from a friend of mine in the States that has horses, and calls them 'hay burners', lol! She complains about the cost, and the fact that her dh rides now and again, not enough to justify keeping them really, but won't consider selling.

[DJgang]

We have about 15 acres, mostly woods.

 

We are starting out small and just a little at a time...

 

This year, chicks and possibly a steer to slaughter. A larger garden than normal, so I'm going to learn to can food this year! Yea!

 

Then next year, I think we may do solar energy... a even larger garden ... by then the chicks should be really laying, and possibly build somewhere to keep potatoes... oh, and water filtering ... catching water run off and filtering it for use... (dreaming...)

[Melissa in Australia]

I can tell you how much the Australian prices are:001_smile:.

a six week old piglet, $70

a jersey cow in calf, I paid $500 because she wouldn't keep up with the rest of the heard. nothing else wrong with her, beaut milker.

chooks $17 for a 15 week chook.

seeds are expensive, around $3.50 per packet. so we just save our own seeds.

[Ottakee]

We are working towards this on a small scale.

 

I would certianly say to make friends with everyone who might know someone who might know someone who............... I can trade rides in my horse trailer for hay, use of something else for riding lessons, call so and so in an emergency and they have what we need, know what to do, etc.

 

I do agree with starting small and learning what you can. Chickens and a garden would be a good place to start. You need to remember that animals need to be fed twice (or more) a day EVERY day, no matter what the weather, your schedule, vacations, etc. You will need someone to "house sit" or a close neighbor to come and take care of things while you are gone.

 

I would also suggest joining 4H, local ag groups, FFA, or other groups that can help you out.

 

Check the drainage of the land you are looking at. Some might be clay---gets really wet and slick and can be hard to grow things on, sand--dries out too fast, in a very windy area, or ............