Let me start by saying that I love abeka for the early years. However, starting in 3rd grade, we added Beast Academy and accelerated to double pace. We're using fourth grade this year, but won't be returning for 5th. (I already had fourth or we wouldn't be doing even that...) It's no longer a fit for us, so we're moving on. I do love the solid foundation that my son has, though. That said, abeka does have a reputation for being very weak for the upper levels. I don't feel that that reputation is undeserved. I assume you've already searched these boards since you're asking about Lial's, Foerester, and Jacob's. Looking at the toc of those texts for algebra and comparing them to the scope and sequence for abeka's program should be helpful. I think that when the problem with a program is what it lacks, it's harder to feel that it doesn't fit anymore. It's more difficult to know that the student will be ill-prepared for the SAT/ACT, for instance, during the daily lessons that still feel like a good fit. It's difficult to feel the lack of conceptual understanding with a program that is a continuation of what you've always done. I know everyone else is saying that if it's not broke, don't fix it; however, I would encourage you to look at the program's fit for your long-term goals for your child's education. That's where the "break" is; not at the daily, how-does-this-lesson-feel level. There are *far* stronger programs out there than Abeka that will take your child deeper in the same amount of time without any greater effort on his part. If it's time to move on, move on. You're not married to abeka; you're tied to your child's education. (And if worse comes to worst and everything else flops, abeka's not going anywhere...) As to your question regarding where to purchase the other texts, I purchased an older edition of Lial's pre-algebra (text plus solutions manual) from the amazon marketplace for under $10, shipped. I've also found copies listed at half.com and you could check with other online used bookstores as well. I'm not sure if Pearson publishing sells directly to homeschooling families or not.

I would start the first grader in SSL and the third grader in Latina Christiana I.

We basically go over the definitions and the I will statements daily. On Monday we also discuss examples of when we have and have not displayed that trait. Tuesdays we read the story from the website. Wednesday we come up with examples of people in the Bible who displayed (or did not display) the character trait. Thursdays we sometimes do more from the website but more often just the definition and I will statements. Friday I have them write a few sentences about the trait from memory and draw a picture. The biggest thing is that I try to work it into our daily lives, though. We strive to find and make use of the teachable moments outside of our ten minute "lesson" time. My husband and I point out opportunities to display a certain trait and humbly point out our own room for growth in certain areas. To be honest, I don't really think there's anything magical about this particular program. I'm not crazy about the fact that the traits are tied to animals (through my kids love it). However, I liked the price and I think that all of the character traits I want covered are there. It's basically just a means of ensuring that we focus our efforts and have a full cycle of traits to get through. It's more about the accountability and direction for me. Plus I really like the I will statements; they're a nice way to make it more concrete and explicit for younger kiddos.

We use the Character First Eduction curriculum. I bought the small deck of cards ($11ish) and the rest is free on their website (they also offer print versions). There are only twenty traits, but we cycle through them year round independently of the school calendar. I relate them to biblical principles and point out correlations during our Bible time. http://characterfirsteducation.com/c/curriculum.php

I disagree. We use BA as a supplement for both of my older two. They're using abeka 3 and 4 accelerated to double pace this year. I like the traditional/algorithmic approach, but it's dry and not deep enough. They love BA and ask to do it on the weekends, etc. While I know that it *can* stand alone, it's just not how we're using it. Even so, we're nowhere near burnout. I do think that a 6th grader will likely fly through the 3a-d series (we haven't started 4a yet). Are you hoping to use it as a primer for AOPS preA?

No! No mommy guilt necessary! You're not depriving them of dance and AWANA. You're providing more opportunities for memories of family time spent together. You're providing them with time for imaginative play and exploration. Most importantly, though, you're providing them with a mommy that isn't frazzled and stretched too thin! Enjoy the extra flexibility in your schedule. :)

Bump I have both, but am unsure of which we'll use for my oldest next year.

Have you read through this thread? http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/494523-does-anyone-else-think-classical-conversations-is-neither/?fromsearch=1

We're currently using abeka Language A for fourth grade. We've used abeka language arts since k5. I would say that you remember it correctly. It's a solid program with explicit instruction and quite a bit of review. I like it well enough, but we are going to try Rod & Staff next year instead of Language B. We have no complaints about abeka, but I've branched off for literature, spelling, and writing at this point and it didn't make sense to continue with abeka for just language/grammar. I also had several recommendations for Analytical Grammar when I was asking here. It might be worth looking into as well.

Thank you! That was helpful. I will likely pull out volume four later and look it over. We haven't used the activity guides at all, so maybe that will help some. We use library books and narration along with just plain discussion to round it all out.

Have you looked at Right Start Math? It wouldn't fit for our family so I don't know much about it. However, a friend with a wiggly, squirmy little guy just purchased it for him after a lot of research. Maybe it would be worth your time to check it out?

We haven't done SotW4 yet. Is the content presented in such a way that it seems more vivid than the slavery, wars, and atrocities depicted in volumes 1 and 2? Is it dealt with at a more intimate level? It's not as if evils being perpetrated against one group or another is an invention of the past two hundred years, so I am assuming that the style of the book changes. Can you expand at all so I can determine if this will still be a good fit for us moving forward? I have a rather sensitive one that I don't want to traumatize. He's been fine with volumes 1, 2, and the portions of 3 that we've covered thus far, though.

I went through several lists and compiled items for each of the following categories: math, science, Bible, history, famous speeches, Latin, English grammar, art, music, etc. The edsnapshots list is fabulous. There are several others that felt like I hit the jackpot as well, but I don't recall where they were. I just took what we needed to add to our list and moved on. Also, check youtube for songs! This one was a lot of fun. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=uQAuNnCbEz8 You could also look at the classical conversations memory work (their cd for cycle one is on sale ATM). I don't intend to ever join a community, but we love their timeline song and cards. Tbh, IMO, the rest of the songs on the cd are done better elsewhere. But the cd came with all of the cycle one memory work as well. You might be interested in that portion.

Do you guys take a break for summer or do school year round? I can see it being a great summer bridge program, but I don't know that I'd spend another full school year on it at this point. If you want to do all 4 books of level 5 (A-D), it might be more intensive than you want for summer work. However, if that's all you'll be doing, it might be ok. My guys love it and constantly ask to do more than I require. We actually did extra today bc they don't mind doing it on Saturday! Of course, ymmv, but if you think she'd benefit and that it's worth the time spent, go for it.

I think a five year old could easily understand it. I would aim for about a chapter a week. We read it on Monday and would have them draw a picture of what happened in the chapter. We would also update our timeline with the new information. Then Tuesday-Thursday we read library books and checked out youtube for related content. On Friday we reread the chapter aloud to discuss it. It sounds like a lot, but it's really not! They enjoyed it and I feel like they got more out of it because of the interaction. The library books helped to flesh out concepts for them.

Our Times Tales DVDs arrived Monday of this week and I am already in love! I think it's important to recognize that there are two separate skills in learning multiplication and division: 1) understanding multiplication/division conceptually and 2) memorizing the facts. Times Tales does nothing for the former, but makes the latter so much fun and beyond easy. Its basically just a mnemonic device to learn the times tables quickly and easily instead of flashcard drill. It's not "mathy" because memorizing facts isn't necessarily a mathy skill. If your child doesn't understand the concept of multiplication and division, this will not teach him. However, I *highly* recommend it for turning the boring and difficult task of memorizing into a fun and easy treat. It's split into two sections (lower facts and upper facts). My guys learned the first set in literally one viewing. They recommend waiting a week after watching the first set before introducing the second, otherwise, I'm fairly certain we'd have them all memorized already. My guys dislike flashcard drills and found them anxiety provoking. They *want* to watch the DVDs and can't wait to see the next set. The stories are fun for them and it really works! I don't think you'll regret the purchase. :)

I love everyone's suggestions so far! I would add a few more games that we love: Blokus Color Code Rush Hour Some toys that are wonderful for their addition to stem play: Simple Machines Snap Circuits Cheap microscope and set of prepared slides Also, we just received our Times Tales DVD on Monday. I cannot tell you how I wish we would have had this a year ago for my oldest. It is magic. ;)

I didn't read all of the replies here, so I apologize if what I have to say is a repeat. BA has been a great fit for us. After supplementing and accelerating his regular math program for years, I really enjoy how deep it goes without me adding anything to it. I'm glad to hear that it is working for you as well. I don't really have any advice as to whether you should continue with just BA or combining programs, though. I think it depends on whether you plan to continue with just aops and the discovery approach for pre-algebra onward or if you'd rather switch to something with explicit instruction by that point. ?? However, I will say, the portions of MCT that we bought to try out sit, largely unused, on the shelf. Instead, I've found that accelerating the grammar portion of la to a more difficult level was sufficient for grammar, and we sought depth by increasing literature requirements. I went to more difficult novels, but I also now require him to beef up the level of analysis. It took us from flying through the novels at grade level to slowing down to really chew on the meat of what I'm offering now, if that makes sense. We use memoria press lit guides 1-2 grade levels ahead plus random poetry with guides I find online. The biggest change is that I'm also requiring him to identify elements of literature that normally would not be required of him. He is processing on a much deeper level now, in much the same way that BA requires of him, but without the MCT system that just didn't click for us. This is the website I use: https://www.roanestate.edu/owl/elementslit.html. However, please know that I am NOT requiring him to write analytical essays at this point. He does the MP lit guide questions as written work (most of the time) and we simply discuss this portion orally. I will eventually require written analysis, but he's 8 right now and I prefer that he has time to just be 8. ;) We also added Latin for him (he's working through first form now, but started with Latina Christiana). He loves seeing the connections between Latin and English and , while not required by me, books like English from the Roots Up and an idioms dictionary that includes etymology have been a lot of fun for him. I don't know if any of that would be a means of helping your son take it deeper or if there are other suggestions here that will be a better fit for you guys. Either way, I'm glad that you're seeking to differentiate his education in an authentic way instead of just accelerating him through the standard curriculum. :)

It sounds like it's an auditory memory issue. You could try playing games that improve this skill. You can google for more, but one of our favorites is "I'm Going to the Market." We sometimes play after dinner and go around the table. Someone will start, "I'm going to the market to buy some milk," and the next person says, "I'm going to the market to buy some milk and an apple." We continue around the circle adding to the list until someone misses one. It sounds simple but it does a lot to help with auditory memory. There're also a few FunDecks dealing with auditory memory and several other strategies that you can employ. Try having him repeat the sentence to you before he begins writing. If he can't repeat the whole sentence, try to have him remember one or two more words than he originally repeated. Like everything else, it's a matter of stretching him a little at a time.

Our Times Tales DVDs arrived on Monday. I was pretty iffy about the $30, tbh. I cannot tell you just how much I love them! My 7 yo now knows all of the times tables that I've introduced so far and I am thrilled with his rapid progress. It was well worth the $30 IMO. The only problem that I can see with you using this program is that you're going to need another goal for the summer for your older kids! It won't take more than a couple weeks! :)

In addition to our family reading time, we are using Veritas Press Genesis to Joshua and Memoria Press Christian Studies I in tandem this year for my mid-elementary school guys. I think that of the two, I would go with the Veritas Press for a K'er. It's a little dry compared to Abeka or BJU Blble, but is expository in nature and it goes pretty deep. I also appreciate that it let's you assume the responsibility for doctrinal choices. There are timeline cards, puzzles and coloring pages, etc. to help draw them in after you read from the Bible, but it's not as colorful as some others aimed at that age group tend to be. Really, I think whatever you choose will be wonderful. It's a matter of picking something thy you can be consistent with. The best curriculum that sits on a shelf and never gets implemented is worthless. On that same token, the purpose is to expose your child to the Word of God. You're already doing that in a very authentic way as a family. If an extra curriculum isn't in the budget (time wise -or- money wise), that really is ok, especially for such a little one. ;) If all else fails, a beautifully illustrated children's Bible may do more to draw your little one in at the kindergarten level.

So to piggy back on the OP, do you all who have children that participated in CC Essentials feel that the overall cost of the program (both monetarily and time spent) was worth it over completing a solid grammar program and IEW SWI DVDs at home? Where is the added value?

I honestly thought when reading your description of your daughter that it sounded very much like my oldest son who is 2e. He was diagnosed with Asperger's and profoundly gifted when he was four. My son had perfectionism, anxiety, spd traits, a very long attention span, wonderful ability to draw and write, and emotional intensity. When we went in for his 12 month check-up, I took along a list of the 127 words that he was using. He taught himself to read at 27 months, and he wasn't just memorizing words, but actually sounding them out/decoding. He memorized not only the names of the planets in our solar system (including all the dwarf planets), but also tons of detailed information about each. He was capable of very deep conversations at the ages of 3 and 4 and people were constantly commenting on the depth of his understanding of complex topics and situations. When we decided to get him assessed, we knew that he was gifted but had no clue about the Asperger's. None of the online checklists took into account the hyperlexia or high expressive vocabulary. And when I had asked about the possibility of autism at his 15 month checkup (bc of the perfectionism, emotional intensity, and spd), his pediatrician said very confidently that he was too verbal and too social for autism and he seems to be "just" gifted. So, that said, I enthusiastically second the recommendation to find a testing facility that understands 2e traits in girls (yes, it matters). Also, one last bit of encouragement for you: I went to see Temple Grandin speak last year and she said that she's often asked to speak at GT conferences in addition to the ASD conferences and that there's more overlap there than many realize with regard to the HFA/Asperger's group and the gifted kids. It's the same kids, just different books on the confrences' book tables. ;)

I agree with ^^^ That's exactly what I would do. The only thing that I might change is to have them practice study skills with literature so that you're not spread too thin. It sounds as though the math and language remediation needs to be intensive, so history, science, music, and art can all be tabled for now. Depending on how bad the deficits are, I would also google for some informal assessments in each language arts area to see which gaps you should focus on. This site has several that I like [http://thisreadingmama.com/resources-links/informal-readingspelling-assessments/], but feel free to google around a bit. There's nothing fancy about these in particular. The information can help you target specific areas, though. Good luck!!

Exactly! Meet her where she is and move her forward. I don't think there's any reason to do another first grade math program unless she took a placement test and it was suggested that she start in first. What program is she currently using? Have you compared scope and sequence to what you've chosen for next year? If it's too easy and she's bored, you can reasonably expect as many behavior problems as you would from a child who is in over their head. That said, I didn't see any programs I would advise you to run from, so I think it will be a good year for you guys. :)