:grouphug:

Bumping, because I've had some people mention to me that they could no longer find this thread and wanted to help. I'm another that will vouch for Pinky. Unfortunately, every word is true, and then some. My heart is breaking for her and for her amazing family.

Plants/flowers like this don't have to be planted all together, but the do look better when in small groups. I would put at least three of each kind together in a cluster. You CAN put them all together. That would be dramatic. You can see examples of how it looks as you drive by the fronts of apartment buildings or entrances to nice office parks where the landscpapers will put, for example, a dozen or more of a taller, maybe large-leafed plant in the back, then the same dozen or more of a shorter flower, then more of the smallest, colorful in front. You don't have to, but it looks nice. I'd just focus on groups of plants, not one-offs. How many is entirely up to your own aesthetic.

I followed you pretty closely, so you get an A+ for following all of my nonsensical posts! Just for clarity, there are five sisters and one brother. I'm only really talking about 4 of the sisters here. I think your letters match up with my naming convention in the following way: Sister A: Oldest, Dreadful Sister Sister B: Zombie Sister Sister C: Me Sister D: Best Friend Sister A and B are besties. A does not speak to C, D, or the other sister. We're all fine with that. We don't want to speak with her, either. Ever. A and D were quite close at one time, but that was over decades ago. B and D were extremely close at one time, and it wasn't decades ago, but it has been many, many years. More than 10, I'd say. They do not speak now and likely never will. Tons of resentment and anger on both of their parts, and neither of them forgives easily. That said, I am not B, and I am not D. It is pretty well known that I just am not one that holds onto things like that. I think it's unhealthy and causes me anxiety. So, I forgive, and I move on, and I accept that things can be different but don't have to be completely gone forever. For me, there is gray area. That's why I think you're probably right, primarily because of your point #4. I just don't hold on to things like this, generally. It's not in my nature. So I did tell her that I accept her apology, and I mean it. Now I just have to decide if I want to let her into my life again. I'm now leaning toward just having a coffee or something with her and reevaluate how I feel after I see and speak to her live.

I'm not concerned with the kids because they're nowhere near close in age. Hers are much older than mine...adults with kids of their own. Yes she and the controlling sister are very tight. In fact, as evidence of her controlling nature, my sister had to call her own daughter to get my phone number, and daughter said to her "Aunt Awful is going to be pissed." I do think she's sorry. She sounded very forthcoming, with no hint of defensiveness, or "but," or anything like that when she spoke. She owned what she's done. If I do meet up with her (and I'm still 50/50 on what I"m going to do), it will definitley have to be in a public place, in neutral geography, for a short period of time. I will never let her in the way she used to be, but that might be ok, too.

I agree with all of this. I just don't know what I want. No one can tell me, I realize, I just like the thought-provoking questions, comments, and experiences I get here. Helps me look at things through different lenses.

1. Zombie sister and Dreaded sister (I love that title!) are as close to each other as Best Friend sister is to me. 2. To be clear, my relationship is great with my mom. She stays neutral, for the most part. Openly, at least. The problem with our mom is that she always champions who she perceives to be the underdog or persecuted, and in this case zombie sister has painted herself in that light. It's crap, but my mom doesn't hold it against me. She has talked to me about it, and she knows about the phone call, and zombie's admission of guilt. 3. I don't know, and I guess that's why I'm struggling. 4. The issues between BF sister and Dreaded sister all came about as things that happened in the past. They have had no contact in...I don't know....decades, maybe. They never will. Neither is willing, and because Dreaded sister continues her crap, and continues to manipulate relationships between the rest of us (or has tried to, anyway), there is no hope there. BF sister will probe for information, and I'll give it to her. I don't keep secrets from her. If I decide to have contact with zombie sister, BF sister will be the first to know. 5. I guess the best case scenario I can think of is that we'll at least be cordial. Maybe I can let go of some of the dread I carry from the loss of the relationship. Maybe when my parents eventually move to here (4 of us live in the same state, but my parents do not) and move in with zombie sister, because they will at some point since she has the space, I'll be able to see my parents without having to be completely uncomfortable. Maybe I could go see my niece and brand new great niece when I'm in New York this summer. Are the risks worth it? That's what I'm trying to decide. As a matter of principle I think that people need to mind their own busines when it comes to other people's relationships with people For years I was close with zombie and BF sort of chided me about it, but I would tell her to butt out and let me handle my business. It was fine. Never came between us before, and it still shouldn't. The reality is, it might now. So do I stand on principle and go see zombie? Is it worth the risk? I can't answer that right now because I can't think all the way through to what could possibly happen as a result of my meeting up with zombie.

Like what kind of guidelines?

Oh my gosh, that's awful! I don't understand how people can treat people that way. I wouldn't even do that to a stranger, much less a family member. Even the ones I can't stand! I'm so sorry. She was never cruel to me in that way. There were times that weren't great, where I felt very marginalized, and it hurt. When I confronted her about it, she basically said oh, well. Really. She didn't seem to care. On the other hand, the vast majority of our years have been great. That's what makes it hard.

But I want you to tell me what I want to do!!!!!! :-)

Yes, thanks for this. I don't think there would even be a hint of discussion about the others anyway. She knows I will protect my BF sister no matter what. I have always been very clear with the "your relationships are yours to manage, mine are mine and none of your business" message, but given the circumstance I simply wouldn't tolerate it. I'm sure she would say the same if I were to speak negatively about the oldest.

Yes, I do appreciate that. There was no hint of excuse in her words. No "buts". I believe it was sincere. I think the bottom line is that I would like to have a relationship with her, but one like it used to be, and that's not even possible.

I understand. I'm not at all interested in facilitating anything between any of the others. I've done that before, and it was quite successful, but it wasn't my issue to begin with and I probably just should have stayed out of it. I'm a firm believer that people own their own relationships, and that's that. So, I don't care to ever have a relationship with the eldest, but I don't care if anyone else does. They're lives, their relationships, theirs to manage. I'm not even a tiny bit up for a big family saga, and it would be one, kwim? In this case, my concerns are: 1. I just don't want to set myself up to be hurt that way again. I don't have to, I realize. Relationships change, and maybe there could be one, just different than what we used to have. But the risk is still big. 2. Best friend sister. Frankly, my relationship with her is more important than reconnecting with this one. Like I said, I spoke with her, and she did not try and tell me what to do. She wouldn't. She knows that I know how she feels. I just don't know if trying to have some sort of something with this sister is even worth the possibility of the BF sister having discomfort and negativity because of it. I realize that she owns her own feelings and thoughts and reactions, but it's in my power to protect her from that right now. All of our kids are grown, and have never been close anyway (mine are significantly younger than theirs) so the cousins relationship isn't so much on the radar.

Not really. I don't think there would be anything short-term about it, and I don't have the time, money, or inclination to open wounds that have long since scabbed over. I really didn't have much of a desire to have this one reopened, but she did it, and here it is, and now I have to figure out the best way to heal.

Do you engage, or do you run and protect yourself from the zombie? Here's the deal. She and I were extremely close for most of our adult lives. I don't know if she actually has any personality disorder, but she is completely controlled by our oldest sister. That one (the oldest) is awful, and I never have had, nor do I ever wish to have, any kind of relationship with her. The two of them are super close. About 3+ years ago, this sister stopped talking to me. Just...stopped. We live close, and we'd always shared most holidays together, hung out a lot, spoke frequently, etc. Then....nothing. Part of the problem is that I'm extremely close to yet another sister, and the two of them do not get along or speak, so I believe I suddenly became gulity by association or something, via the manipulation of the oldest crappy sister. So, 3+ years of this one not speaking to me or to two other siblings, telling our mother "I don't know why they're so mad at me," crying "woe is me," basically. My mother bought right into her crap. I was hurt for a long time, then really angry, and then I just mourned her and our once great relationship as if she were dead. Two days ago, she called me. She told me she was sorry, she misses me, she loves me, she admitted I hadn't done anything wrong, and that yeah, I was sort of guilty by association in her mind because she pretty much hates my best-friend sister so much. So she's not interested in a relationship with the other two she cut off, both of whom I'm close with, but she wants one with me. I said I have spent years mourning the loss of her, but I don't see any way we could ever have any type of relationship we used to have because I don't know how I could ever trust her again. I also know it will cause drama with best-friend sister, who would never tell me what to do (because she's not a controlling freak), but who did tell me that she's concerned this other one is trying, and will continue to try, to come between us. What do I do? Right now, I've decided to do nothing. I have always fantasized about running into her in a store somewhere, or while I was getting my hair done (we go to the same place), but I never have, and don't know what I would have done if I had. I also miss her kids and my great nieces, one of whom I haven't even met because of this. Still, I can't decide if it's worth the risk. Please give me some perspective, here.

Eat? You're going to tell me to "eat" my way through NYC, when you know how much I hate food?!? :lol: (I can barely even type that with a straight face)

I should mention that we're leaving from Manhattan on a cruise the next day, so we'll probably skip the Statue of Liberty because it takes quite a bit of the day, and we'll sail by it as we depart. Same for the boat/harbor tours. We'll get to see the skyline from the ship as we leave. I'm leaning away from a show because we get great shows in Atlanta, and again....time, and money. I love the idea of picking neighborhoods and walking around to see what we can see. That's a great idea.

Great suggestions! So we will be doing the 911 memorial and museum, for sure. It's something we all want to do. We were trying to decide which tall building we wanted to go up in, and then decided not to go up in any. I would hate it (extreme fear of heights) and the kids really aren't into it, so we decided not to spend the money. Central Park is a must-do for two of the three kids, if the weather treats us right. If not (or, even if it does) we're considering the Museum of Natural History. I'm not all that interested in going, surprisingly, but everyone else is. I need to figure out the right things to do as far as location. Meaning, I don't want to plan 3 things on a day that are not near each other. I don't want to go back and forth too much. Please keep the suggestions coming! I'm already altering the draft itinerary based on some of your recommendations.

What would you do? It's really more like 1.5 days, because we get in early on a Friday morning to La Guardia, have to go to Brooklyn where we're staying to drop our stuff, and then subway back into Manhattan, which will obviously kill some time. Then we'll have a full day there on Saturday. I've been to NY about a million times, but always for work so I haven't done much touristy stuff in years. My kids have never been. My husband has been a few times but has no preference on what we do. Kids are 19, 13, and 12. I have an initial itinerary, but what would you do?

This is exactly how I feel about it. I know it's different, but I feel the same way about what to do with my body when I'm gone. I have strong preferences, but at the end of the day it's simply not about me. While I prefer not to be buried, simply because I think it's a waste of land and I think there are much better things to do with it (has anyone seen those tree pods? So cool!), at the end of the day, if it makes my husband feel better to have a headstone to sit at, then by all means go get one. I will be dead. It's not about me anymore. In most cases, I think that having such strong opinions about what to do in regard to one's own death is ultimately about fear of the loss of control when one dies. Making dictates about the funeral/memorial/burial is another way to hold onto life, in the minds of some, in my opinion. I do recognize that there is a strong religious component here for many, which has nothing to do with what I've said, so this isn't a blanket statement.

I've been having them, too, and you're just one day ahead of me. I also have been waking up hungery the last couple of days, which hasn't happened since I started this. Weird.

I loved my house when I bought it in 2006. There were just three of us, and it was brand new, and I picked every single thing in it. It was perfect. I don't hate it now, but my circumstances have changed enough that I really do want to move. Since I've added a husband and a stepdaughter, plus 2 dogs and a 3rd cat, we really need more space. I resent my house a bit, because I can't sell right now. I had equity in the home when I bought it, then the market crashed, and I'm still upside down. I couldn't move without taking a substantial loss, and I'm too risk averse to have 2 mortgages so I can't rent it out and buy something else.

I disagree. I thought it was a stupid commercial, but everyone is talking about it today. That's the goal. That's effective marketing.

I see what you mean. It's not so much the product or business itself (in most cases), necessarily, but the skeeziness that can go along with it. I get that.

For context, I have a rather full bust (36 DD), but my sister (34 B) wears these, too, so I don't know if that makes a difference. My favorite are the Vanishing Back. I wear the back hook with underwire. My sister wears front hook. I don't know if she wears wire or not. CAn't remember. I also love the Embraceable line. It's my second favorite. Again, I wear full coverage, back closure. P.S. I know you didn't ask, but I swear if they ever stop making vanishing edge underwear I'll cry. Best. Underwear. Ever.