Just to add something here, there are Christian groups who do try to convert Muslims in much the same way they try to convert the Jews. I had friends growing up who lived in Indonesia and other S.E. Asian countries who were trained to convert Muslims to Christian, but how to maintain their Muslim customs in some ways, while thinking of them with different meanings. It was a way of helping Muslims to convert without losing jobs, family, or being killed. There were entire segments of the evangelistic group I was with that was devoted to "re-teaching" Islam to Muslims to make them Christians, essentially. However, since it is more dangerous for Muslims to convert (in general) than Jews, these efforts were (and are) much less obvious. It's a hidden sort of movement. (Don't want to derail, just food for thought.)

I love mine too. :) Love, love, love! I think you'll be fine, Quill. Give it a shot. :)

Oooh, Rosie. I'm so so so sorry. :grouphug:

There's a downloadable book on Jews for Judaism (.com) (in response to an Evangelical organization whose purpose is to convert Jews) that you can read called "Response to Missionaries". That will give you some of the background and the verses and how they have always been understood by the Jews. Sorry for butting into the thread, but I find this to be a good source for Jewish perspective that answers Christian misunderstandings. (This from a non-Jew, so . . . what do I know? But rabbi did share the book with me long ago :))

I'm not on your case about it. I'm trying to help you understand what will help you enjoy this board and find friends here. It's nice that you apologized. I haven't said another thing about it. I'm saying what I would say to anyone. Be kind. Give the benefit of the doubt. As for your beliefs, you will find most people here are Christians, and those who aren't really won't pester you or be in-your-face confrontational about your beliefs. Just be kind, no one is out to get you. And, if you'll note, you said that you were a Christian, and Not One person has shown you "backlash". You thought a person was giving you backlash, when in fact they were another Christian, and they were trying to encourage and lift you up! Actually, I think it's funny, and a little sad that you're trying to show how cruelly you're being treated for being a Christian, when no one has treated you cruelly at all. Just be kind. Ok? You're not a victim here. No one is out to get you. And you might make friends if you don't lash out at people who are just trying to be friendly.

You just might want to give people the benefit of the doubt. Also, many, if not most, people here are Christians.

Scrapbookbuzz is a Christian, although she may not be according to your beliefs. She was trying to say that being a devoted Christian is something special and odd in the world. I don't think she meant to offend you.

Enstrom toffee http://www.enstrom.com/ My mother sends me a 5-pound box at Christmas. I eat it all by myself by mid-February (Yes, I hide it in the back of the freezer. It's MINE, I tell you! Mine!). Then, I swear it off forever, but by the time November rolls around, I'm just craving it fiercely.

My major concerns are inflation and education for my children. We'd be in San Luis. I believe my husband could get on with a university there. (I'm being offered a job, but husband is consideration too :)) So, the economy and housing are my biggest issues. I know inflation is really quite bad. If it were just me, I'd go anywhere in a heartbeat, but I have to be practical for our family.

That is all. :D

Could be alopecia. My oldest son lost 1/3 of his hair when he was about 7. Enormous bald patches over his head. It eventually grew back and it's nice and thick and he may never relapse. Of course, he might relapse. . . but we're keeping an optimistic outlook But alopecia was my first thought. It's genetic, apparently. They just identified the genetic marker several years ago.

Well, I hope you'll have a restful week and recovery, even if it takes extra sleep to get it done. The BMA is . . . I don't know how to explain it. Let's assume you're familiar with most Conservative/Evangelical (vs. Conservative Mennonite) beliefs today. Sometimes it's easier to explain something in comparison to other things. So, those aligned with the BMA would believe in Biblical non-resistance (not being part of the military or harming other people), they might or might not vote (this was left to the person in our church, but many did not vote, preferring to pray for God's will), there was no jewelry on women or men nor makeup. Services were done acapella, though men and women sat together with their families (which is different from Conservative Mennos who worship from separate sides of the church building). Women have small veils or small net bun coverings and wear a variety of skirt/dress/jumper options. They don't believe in Once-Saved-Always-Saved, and do believe in Biblical literalism. TV's may be used to watch edifying materials--videos or Christian entertainment, as well as computers and radio (TV is usually off-limits to most Conservative Mennos). Baptism is for adults. If one has been baptised as an infant and later come to faith, they are baptized as adults. "Believers baptism." Salvation by faith through the atoning sacrifice of Christ and believing in Him. Baptism is an outward sign of the faith. Typically done by pouring water on the head. (Ohhh! It looks like, in the new constitution, that one can choose immersion instead.) BMA practice foot-washing before communion service--women for women and men for men. There is a Bible Institute in Indiana that the youth like to attend, and their choirs do evangelistic tours. It's called Elnora Bible Institute. http://www.biblicalmennonite.com/index.html That might keep you busy for a while. Do you have any specific questions? Here's a .pdf of the latest constitution. The last one was ratified after we left, but it looks pretty much the same. It's pretty long, so you might not have the energy/interest to read it. http://www.biblicalmennonite.com/support-files/ministers-manual-2012-edition.pdf

This is so helpful! :) I'm also dying that this is the first thread I've ever started that has a star. :D

Thanks everyone. I like the idea of the yoga pants and looking into boy jeans as well. Also, long under tanks. That might not work because she gets sooooo hot so easily. She might balk at that, but it's worth a shot.

My heart goes out to you and your family, Rose. :grouphug:

My completely average sized 9-year-old daughter shows crack all day long. She has no toochis and we can only find all of these short waisted pants. It's truly ghastly. We're talking 2 inches, at least! We could do a belt, but she sometimes waits too long to hit the bathroom, and fumbling with a belt may lead to disaster. Are there any reasonable pants for a girl today? Help! (thanks :))

I have a friend who counts cards. His family goes on a couple of gambling trips every year. Sometimes they catch him, but most of the times they don't. You can't win too much. You have to change tables regularly, and you have to be sneaky--in addition to being a good with numbers. He's a math professor! :D

"If a man does not work, neither shall he eat." 2 Thess 3:10 "The poor you will always have with you." Matt 26:11 These are verses that are often used when fundamentalist Christians in the US answer the questions about service and wealth distribution and the belief about poor people (they aren't working hard enough. They'll always be around, so it doesn't make sense to invest too much in them). I won't explain further, but I'm sure you can make the connections yourself. Also, in the US, there is a very high value placed on freedom and individuality, and that's strongly reflected in American Christianity as well, which I think also relates to the topic at hand. "Pull yourself up by your bootstraps." Then, we segue into the dislike American Christians may have of the ungodly government and the fear of godless Socialism, which connects, of course, with universal health care discussion. Not to mention the belief that if the government would just get out of the way and stop taxing people that the churches would be able to cover all medical and basic needs of the society. These were common arguments and the backdrop of my experiences during 20 years of Christianity here in the US. ETA: I think, the phrase "God helps those who helps themselves" is also pretty popular in America, though it's not actually in the Bible. It connects to the mindset.

I think maybe she was trying to spare Teannika some embarrassment, in case she had didn't realize she was being exceedingly rude to possibly every other Christian on this board apart from you and her. Sometimes people are unintentionally rude. If that was her intent to be rude, it's noted, and she's more than welcome to be so.

Yes, and the original was an instance of one Christian using quotation marks to disparage every other sort of Christian that doesn't align with her specific framework. I'm not even a Christian, and I find it terribly rude. To use "xian" is no more disparaging than using than using "G-d" when denoting God (which some Christians also do, I believe).

I was waiting for someone to bring this up! Anyone else want to respond here? I don't think I'm in the mood right now.

There's lots of types of Mennonites. My family and I attended a BMA church for about 5 years (Biblical Mennonite Alliance). Headcoverings, un-cut hair, dresses, no jewelry, etc. You couldn't tell the guys from any others. Otherwise, we were pretty much like Baptists. :) People seem more interested in the more distinctive Mennonites, however. Old Order Mennonites, Pikers, Weaver Mennonites, have horse and buggy. That's what makes the Old Order. Most Conservative Mennonites wear some sort of white prayer covering (headship veil) and homemade dresses but are similar to most conservative Christians, but may or may not have computer/tv etc. Beachy Amish/Amish Mennonite would only have dark colored vehicles and might not allow print dresses, and only have "cape dresses" (All of this varies, of course--but I'm giving a general overview here). There are lots of Mennonites who are more into social justice, feeding the poor, healing the sick. etc. and don't have any distinctives at all. They aren't even Biblical literalists, but might use the Bible as a guidebook. I'm even familiar with Mennonite groups with gay leaders. So, which type of Mennonite are you interested in? :) I hope you're feeling well.

Fair enough. But you might also want to be aware that it was, in part, watching fellow conservative Christians use this kind of circular-reasoning and completely fallacious thinking over and over again that helped me to become aware of the absolute poverty of this kind of thinking that showed me that my Christian faith was based on nonsense. So, while you might be helping some Christians, you're almost certainly giving some faithful people real reason to question the foundation on which their faith rests. By all means keep going. I owe my freedom from religion to arguments such as this! The people who want any reason to believe may grab on to even your "rationale". People who are questioning and truly thinking may see that the emperor, in fact, has no clothes.

I could easily find other "fingerprints" that show that the canon is supposed to have 73 books. See, I can start with any conclusion and then find the evidence for it! :D I can also cherry pick from the Bible and prove any dozen of completely bizarre things. That's the joy of starting with the conclusion and "finding evidence" after the fact. That's exactly what you're doing with the numbers. So, the number 40 appears often in Hebrew religious stories. Yes, it's a meaningful number. And? Exodus wasn't written with 40 chapters. It was later divided into 40 chapters--perhaps with the number 40 in mind. Doesn't mean it HAD to be divided that way, just that it suited the theme. Hey, 40 years in the desert? Let's put 40 chapter in this book! Is this making any sense? I used to believe just as you did, Teannika. (Yes, even down to the 42-week connection you're making between Job and Daniel). You're writing the sorts of stuff I wrote on this same board 2 incarnations (boards, I mean) ago. Now I can really understand the frustration of people trying to reason with me back then. You're in a circular reasoning, affirming-the-consequent vortex.

As I'm sure you know, fundamentalist Christians take the 1st chapter of Genesis a literal, and many of them believe that this happened about 6,000 years ago. What is the Orthodox understanding of the 6 days of creation? Thanks kindly!