Yeah, just the workbook by itself is not what you want. You need the textbook for the grammar portion. FWIW, I just checked and there are many used copies of Hake Grammar on Amazon so that could save you some money if the budget is tight. How much previous grammar instruction have your kids had? If I was going to have my DS do only one level of Hake, it would be level 8, and spread over 2 years. You can see the scope and sequence (as well as table of contents and samples) for each level directly on the Hake website, linked below in my sig. You'll see that Level 7 & 8 are quite similar, but 8 is deeper into the concepts. I suppose your kids could share the textbook, but I have to tell you, I let my DS write in the textbook. I only have one kid, so I wouldn't re-use it anyway, but he would be quite unhappy if I required him to write everything on a separate piece of paper. Also, the paper it is printed on is like newsprint, so not the most durable for passing around to multiple students. But you know your kids, they may handle that just fine. Sorry, probably not what you wanted to hear. Hopefully someone will chime in with other ideas for you. ETA: Christianbook also has good Hake samples/tables of contents.

In WTM 3rd edition, you'll find a fantastic "how to outline" section starting on page 297. I refer to it often. Best wishes!

It is very easy to exclude the writing portion if you want because the writing portion is limited to the student workbook. You do not *need* the whole kit. The student textbook is grammar only, with all instruction written to the student. The student workbook contains all the writing lessons plus a few additional grammar practice worksheets for approx. 25 - 30 of the grammar lessons. There's so much grammar review in the main text, we've never used the additional grammar practice worksheets. I do use the teacher's manual to make my life easier. The TM is a solutions manual and also contains the student tests, if you want to use them. The TM does not contain scripted lessons for teaching the student. Textbook = grammar Workbook = writing (+ extra practice worksheets for 25 - 30 specific grammar lessons) Teacher's manual = solutions and tests ETA: I only have experience with the 1st edition. Based on the OP, I do not know if the 2nd edition would change my answer. Hopefully the OP will let us know if she finds out any info.

Here is the contact email address for Hake, if you want to get info about the new edition directly. I've emailed them before and they were fast to respond and very helpful. email: info@grammar.cc source: http://www.hakepublishing.com/contact-hake-publishing.html

Books: The Annotated Mona Lisa: A Crash Course in Art History from Prehistoric to Post-Modern Smart Art: Learning to Classify & Critique Art Looking at Pictures Cave Paintings to Picasso Story of the Orchestra (comes with a CD of musical excerpts to listen to along with reading the book section by section, covers selected composers and instruments) CDs: Story of X In Words & Music (~30 minutes of biographical narration + ~30 minutes of musical excerpts, separate CDs for several different composers - this link takes you to Bach, there are others for Mozart, Handel, Haydn, etc., some only $1.99 each right now! - look under "customers who bought this item also bought")

DVD resources (also on YouTube): Sister Wendy DVDs Sister Wendy's American Collection Leonard Bernstein's Young People's Concerts History of Rock N Roll (some commentary portions not appropriate for younger students, i.e., drug use, s#%)

A few more ideas, my DS11 enjoys: origami beadwork (threading colored beads into shapes, animals, etc.) simple hand-sewing kits (DS recently made a water bottle carrier out of a terry washcloth, some rick-rack, and a drawstring) ditto on whittling/carving DS has recently become interested in competitive swimming, so he likes looking up & viewing stroke technique videos on YouTube DS likes feeling useful, so lately he likes helping in the kitchen - chopping, washing produce, stirring, baking DS follows major league baseball, so he looks up highlight clips and stats on his favorite players sketching and drawing with charcoal and pastels - using Mark Kistler online art lessons or how-to books for kids painting and assembling model airplanes and cars messing around with learn-to-play apps for piano and guitar on the iPad As for clutter, I've started taking photos of every completed project, then DS can decide whether to keep the actual item in **his** room or give it away.

Got it, sorry, was just trying to be helpful. Best of luck in your search.

Since you used Holt previously, would CPO be an option? Or are you wanting to get away from the typical textbooks? CPO has labs, worksheets, & lots of videos and resources free on their website. I bought CPO Earth student, TM and lab workbook for around $35 total in like-new condition.

How old are your kids? (Didn't see that mentioned.)

The depth of Elemental Science will depend on what encyclopedia(s) you use as the source text. You mentioned just using books you have on your shelves, and that could definitely work, but I don't know if I would recommend using it with encyclopedias other than the ones it was written for. (You can see the required and optional encyclopedia titles & their ISBNs in the samples.) You certainly CAN use different encyclopedias, but then you're not taking full advantage of the main benefit of the guide/schedule, which is that the assignments are geared towards specific page numbers, vocab lists, discussion Q&A. If you use different encyclopedias, then you'll have to substitute page numbers and perhaps some topics. IMO, one of the best features of ES is that I don't have to tweak it or look up alternatives every week, I use it as written, open and go. If I had the time and willingness to re-write it every week, I'd probably just create something myself. YMMV. I've never used McHenry's Brain, Cells, or Botany, but we have used The Elements and Carbon Chemistry. We really enjoyed them, but they were just supplemental at our house. Full of in-depth info and great activities, but we had to skip lots of sections because they were reinforcement activities geared to class/co-op situations and we just couldn't/wouldn't do them at home with my one student. Also, doing it the way we did, each book only took about a month to complete. Again, YMMV. Maybe Brain, Cells or Botany are quite a bit different, though. A $50 budget, for 7th grade science, might be a pretty tall order, unless you have great luck buying used or can use your library heavily. Have you looked at NOEO? It uses "real" non-fiction science books. Its probably over your $50 budget, but you could just pick the books and hands-on kits that are most critical to you or most appealing. That might save some money for you. Or maybe your library would have many of the required books. Maybe worth a look.

I don't have much to add, but just wanted to chime in and clarify that Elemental Science classic isn't really a "science text". It is, rather, a guide/schedule that organizes a systematic study of science using widely-published secular encyclopedias, i.e., DK, Kingfisher, etc. We use it and DS loves it. So for the logic stage you get a scheduled-out, open-and-go list of reading assignments, writing assignments, vocab lists, memory work, discussion questions, tests, weekly hands-on labs you can do at home, etc.. So . . . not really literature-based, more encyclopedia-based. Going on what you've written, probably not what you're looking for. :coolgleamA: We use Elemental Science and add in TOPS kits and kits/projects from Home Science Tools for even more fun.

I agree. Usborne Encyclopedia of World History is way too blurby, more like lists of facts or bullet points scattered across the pages, too summarized for outlining. The more narrative style but still not too wordy paragraph format of Kingfisher's Illustrated History of the World (white cover, out of print but still available) worked great for outlining for my DS in 5th grade and we'll be using it again for 6th grade. Newer versions of the Kingfisher may be more summarized - I think I've read that here on the boards. Try looking for threads about the differences between Kingfisher editions. I can't search right now but there was such a thread not too long ago. Or check your library to see if you can get your hands on one or more editions of Kingfisher before you decide which one to use. Really, any encyclopedia that isn't just lists of bullet points, or any well-written history book, should work fine for outlining. ETA: Our method evolved over the year and ended up not being exactly as prescribed in WTM. We used the white Kingfisher for taking notes (outlining the main point of a paragraph, list of facts, whatever approach worked at that particular point in time) and the K12 Human Odyssey vol. 1 for additional reading and (oral) narrations. I didn't require as much written output since DS was doing plenty of writing in his writing curriculum. I also didn't spend time chasing down additional reading resources from the library for every topic - K12 HO filled that need for us in a single text.

Ditto the park. Also try the public library. During the school year, if you go during school hours, you're especially likely to bump into other homeschoolers. We found that some families go at the same time & day each week.

Just to throw something different out there, Classical Conversations has apps in the iTunes store for memory work. Last time I looked, there was an app for 2 of their 3 cycles, and I'm assuming they're writing the app for the last cycle. We don't do CC, but my DS likes doing the apps just for fun. He alternates between those and Brain Pop, about 10 minutes a day. They aren't free, but IIRC, around $8 - $10 or so. So if you have an iPad/iPod, there's that option.

Well, it isn't really a "science book". Its a guide and schedule for organizing a coherent study of the topics covered using well-known, widely-published, secular science encyclopedias. The ClassiQuest guide/schedule includes laid-out assignments for reading (in the required encyclopedias), hands-on activities, vocabulary, memory work, written reports, etc. There are plenty of colorful pictures in the assigned encyclopedias! :)

Duckens, thank you for such a thorough list!

Duckens, I loved your post. Can you recommend any specific online media outlets you currently believe to be reliable sources to replace the specific "dying" print media you referenced? Are the websites of Time, Newsweek, or U.S News and World Report (if they exist, I'm not able to look online at the moment) currently as good as their hard copies are or once were? Thank you!

Wish I could offer more to help. Easy Grammar's pages are pretty uncluttered, as I recall, and all black and white too. If you go that route, maybe you could add the supplement Daily Grams that goes with Easy Grammar for more review if he needs it. You may have done this already, but consider posting on the Learning Challenges sub-forum too. Hopefully you'll get more BTDT advice.

According to this thread, Art of Argument was secularized in 2010, so the 2010 edition should be OK for you. No personal experience, though. Would love to hear if you have knowledge to the contrary, because we're pretty conservative (so a conservative bias might still work for us, depending on the topic) but secular, and I've been wondering about A of A too.

If you'd like more recommendations, we've enjoyed: The Other Side of History: Daily Life in the Ancient World - covers Ancient and some Medieval history (2 out of the 8 discs cover Vikings, Medieval, Crusades) - DS enjoys the social history aspect, makes it seem "real" to him - and this one is on sale right now! Early American History: Native Americans through the Forty-Niners - geared to a younger audience than most GC courses, i.e., high schoolers, and my DS likes them too - the professor dresses in costume and assumes the persona of a different character for each time period covered World History: The Fertile Crescent to The American Revolution - same professor & format as above, for some reason we didn't like this one quite as much as the Early American history one, but still good

Just FYI, K12 can certainly state that policy, and they have every right to stop producing their hard copies, but they have no legal basis for attempting to prevent purchasers of their printed products from re-selling those products. This is known as the first sale doctrine. (It applies to printed copyrighted material, not digital media.) "The first sale doctrine, codified at 17 U.S.C. § 109, provides that an individual who knowingly purchases a copy of a copyrighted work from the copyright holder receives the right to sell, display or otherwise dispose of that particular copy, notwithstanding the interests of the copyright owner." ~ http://www.justice.gov/usao/eousa/foia_reading_room/usam/title9/crm01854.htm (bolding mine for emphasis) ETA: That's not to say that I don't like K12, just putting the information out there. We use Human Odyssey and I like it a lot. I've also liked the other K12 history and language arts books that I've tried so far. Excellent materials. Bought all of them used. :coolgleamA:

You're not alone in your feelings about GWG and WWW. I've seen some here who used them more than a year or two (or more) say the same. We tried GWG and dumped it, poor retention, too easy to get the correct answers without understanding the concept. What did you/kids not like about CLE? Knowing that might help guide further suggestions. For your older DS, it's hard to answer whether or not you should go back with him and start over in the same level of grammar curriculum as your younger. If you feel he needs that, it probably isn't a mistake. You know him best and how he might respond to that. Would he see it as a negative, sibling rivalry, etc.? Or maybe any potential "rivalry" would have a positive, motivating effect? However, I think typically, students can jump into any grammar curriculum at grade level with no problems, because so much of it reviews and builds on itself year to year. Since you say he is reading and spelling delayed, maybe use a grammar level that matches his reading/spelling ability currently. I have no experience with FLL, but I have experience with and can recommend both Easy Grammar and Hake Grammar. (But I don't care for the writing portion of Hake, which is a separate workbook, not part of the main textbook, so easy to exclude.) I did use the lengthy sample of ALL (Advanced Language Lessons) before that product was shelved indefinitely, and I can say that if FLL is anything like ALL, I wish I could have used FLL with my DS. Anyway, here's a recent thread about Easy Grammar, in case you missed it. You said your older "requires a good bit of reminder", so maybe the spiral review (LOTS of review) in Hake would work well for him too. You said you saw the WWE samples, but did you see the diagnostic evaluation for WWE placement? On this page, click on "Writing With Ease Diagnostic Evaluations". I also have experience with Institute for Excellence in Writing (IEW) and like it very much. It gets good reviews for use with both typical students, who may or may not be writing-reluctant, and those with learning differences. It is very incremental and procedural. Here's a recent thread on it too. My DS thrived with IEW. He loved knowing exactly what was expected in every assignment and having a framework to guide him. The majority of negative reviews of IEW are from those who haven't actually used it, they just dislike the idea of it, and I suspect many of those have kids who happily write creatively for fun anyway - and that's not my situation, LOL. Would be happy to answer any questions you might have about something I've used. Best of luck to you! :grouphug:

Welcome! You've received lots of great advice already. Just wanted to add, those lists of how much time to spend on each subject in WTM can indeed be overwhelming, and I've seen it posted here many times that SWB herself doesn't/didn't stick to those requirements with her own kids. They're included in the book as suggestions only, and were included at the insistence of the book's publisher, not SWB. So take them with a grain of salt and just do what feels right to you. To start, you might even want to begin with only a couple of subjects (just math and reading, or whatever DD prefers) and add in the rest one at a time, maybe every few weeks, until you find your groove. As is often stated, homeschooling is a marathon, not a sprint! : ) ETA: If it would be helpful, here's my example of a way to modify WTM guidelines to suit your needs. We follow the spirit of the guidelines but do not spend as much time on it in practice. My DS doesn't love history and he'd rather spend more time on science. So we streamline history, doing it just 2 days week, doing less writing and research than WTM prescribes. DS outlines a couple of paragraphs from Kingfisher History and makes an entry on a homemade timeline on one day. Then on the 2nd day, he'll read 15 or 20 pages in Human Odyssey, and we might watch a relevant documentary sometime that week during lunch. He gets plenty of writing in his writing curriculum, so we don't do much writing in history, for example. Also, speaking of writing, if you're using SWB's Writing With Ease or her newer Writing With Skill, or any other rigorous writing curriculum, you may not want or need to do as much "writing across the curriculum" in history/science/literature as WTM prescribes. My DS did WWE4, then spent a year on Institute for Excellence in Writing products, and is now starting Writing With Skill. Here at the beginning, I won't ask for much writing in anything except what he does for WWS assignments. As time goes by and he gets more proficient writing skills, I'll add that extra writing across the curriculum back in, gradually.

We love Great Courses! Thank you!