We use Hake for grammar and it works well for us. There are lots of threads about it - it feels like I've posted quite a bit about it myself. Did you do a search? Or google forums.welltrainedmind.com + hake.

HOD? As in Heart of Dakota, or are you referring to something else? Can you provide a link? Thanks. ETA - I found it: http://www.heartofdakota.com/hearts-for-him-through-high-school-descriptions2.php HOD's price is quite a bit more than Pearson's (the publisher) for the books. HOD also states they can't sell the solutions manual by itself, understandably, due to publisher restrictions. (Have to buy it in conjunction with student text. I bought my ST used to save $.) It is interesting that HOD is selling the MWB DVDs for a few dollars less than the MWB retail price. I wish I had known about this source a while back, so thank you for sharing it! Always nice to know of multiple sources for things!

I know, their website isn't the easiest to navigate, LOL. First you'll need to register for an OASIS account at this link. Under new user, click register now. That will get you started on the process. Once your OASIS account is set up by them (I think it took just a couple of back and forth emails, and an electronic educator verification form), you can then order anything on their website and pay with a credit card (no need for a school purchase order). There was a thread on all the OASIS registration steps on the high school board, and of course I can't find it now, but I didn't have any trouble with the process just a couple of months ago. HTH.

We're planning to use Foerster Algebra with the Math Without Borders DVDs for instruction. I'm capable of teaching algebra, but, let's just say this is a subject in which DS needs me to be mom, not teacher. :001_smile: I also think it is critical at this stage for him to not self-teach, hence the videos. :001_smile: Anyway, I bought the textbook edition recommended by Math Without Borders. Here's a link: http://mathwithoutborders.com/?page_id=4 I probably could get by with an older edition instead, but I just wanted to get it over with and not have to worry about matching things up. There are several old threads on the high school board about buying Foerster and the ISBNs, and I recall at least one saying the editions haven't changed much since at least 1999 or 1994. I also wanted the full step-by-step solutions manual (not just final answers to odd problems), and not being willing to pay the current exorbitant prices for it used, I registered with Pearson/Prentice Hall so I could buy it new directly from them. That process took a few days but was very simple to complete. If you don't need/want the support resources I'll be using, then just ignore me. :001_smile: Hopefully someone else with actual experience will chime in.

You may not be interested in this, but EPS's Wordly Wise series is Sadlier-Oxford Vocabulary Workshop's competitor, and when I compared them, I preferred Wordly Wise, but they are very similar in approach & format. One deciding factor for me was that WW doesn't require a homeschooler to jump through hoops to get TMs/answer keys. Those are a big time-saver since DS is working at higher levels now. Anyway, anyone who is interested can see Wordly Wise samples here: http://eps.schoolspecialty.com/products/details.cfm?series=2818M And free word lists & reinforcement activities for every WW level here (click on the "students" button on the right): http://wordlywise3000.com/

6th grade, 12 y.o. boy: Hits (main curricula): WWS1, CPO Earth, K12's Human Odyssey 2 (offline with teacher guide), Hake Grammar, Caesar's English (the "old" version), Mosdos Press lit, Garlic Press book guides, LiveOnlineMath (self-paced video course), Wordly Wise Hits (supplements): Videos from Twig, Crash Course, and Education-Portal for science and history topics, Daily Paragraph Editing, Math Minutes, Perplexors, CNN Student News, BrainPop subscription (limited to 5 related videos per day, via iPad app), SheppardSoftware.com for geography review, Exploring the Night Sky, The Great Courses World History and Early American History lectures by Professor Thompson (high school, not college level), Flashcards app that pulls Quizlet data on iPad for drilling/reviewing vocab words, Killgallon's Sentence Composing for Middle School, Basher science books Misses - MCT grammar, OnlineG3 class for grammar & vocab, Editor in Chief

Yes, you could watch the TWSS DVDs (or even the SWI DVDs, which are directed to the student) and teach the material to your student yourself.

Thank you for sharing this!

My son used IEW SWI-B last year. Based on the way you've described your son, I agree IEW might be a great fit for him. It has a reputation for working well for kids who are reluctant writers, especially boys, and for those with learning challenges, since you mentioned ADHD. The incremental steps and checklists kept my son from getting overwhelmed and really built his confidence. (Parts to whole, as they say. I think he has a brain wired for engineering, LOL.) There was not much focus on creative writing, nor free-form writing prompts, which was a plus for us. With the assigned topics and instruction in developing keyword outlines as a framework, my son didn't have to struggle with thinking of what to write about. But the IEW structure did still allow him a bit of creativity in adding his personal touch to the assignments, especially as he got further along towards the end, so that it wasn't stifling for him. The video lessons worked well here, but be aware, the videos aren't necessarily used every day. The videos may be scheduled for viewing over one or two or even three days, and then the student might spend several days doing the assigned reading, writing, edits, revising, etc. Choose the level based on your son's reading ability, not based on what you perceive his writing level to be. Look carefully at the samples on the website to help you decide. It works great for some kids but it isn't for everyone. If you haven't already, I'd advise you to look up some YouTube videos featuring the teacher, Andrew Pudewa, to see if his style/approach appeals to you and your son. (His quirky sense of humor isn't for everyone. :)) At the end, if you buy IEW, use it, and don't like it, you can still return it for a refund. IEW has a fantastic return policy. Good luck!

Terrific advice by previous posters. OP, how old is your DS?

Awesome! Congrats to your DD! :hurray: :thumbup: :hurray: :thumbup:

I think it all depends on how you want to use it. :001_smile: Of course K12 will tell you that their program without the online component is incomplete, because they want to sell the online component to you. :coolgleamA: I buy my K12 books used very cheaply on Amazon or eBay, not from K12 directly. For reference, I own the 4 volumes of K12's concise History of US and the teacher guides, but haven't used them yet. I am currently using K12's Human Odyssey 2 offline along with its teacher guide, having also used HO1 offline with its TG last year. I'm happy doing it this way and I'm glad I have the TGs. I'd say about half of the questions and activities referenced in the TG are online and about half are offline. I believe the offline mapwork is valuable and I use the offline questions for oral discussion and/or writing prompts. That is plenty right there by itself. Then I'm also having DS write his lists of facts/outline/take notes straight from the book, sort of WTM-style, which you obviously don't need online access in order to do. We're using it as note-taking training. FWIW, I've also seen at least one poster here on the boards say that she thinks the student/teacher guides are a waste of time so she uses the texts without the guides. Just flipping through the concise History of US TGs, they seem to be set up very similarly to the TGs for HO1 and 2. I'd even say perhaps the concise History of US has slightly more offline content than HO. K12 designed it so the student becomes increasingly independent, meaning more online, each year as the student gets older. As you said, K12's concise History of US is targeted to 5th/6th grades, and HO is targeted to 7th and up in their online program. Overall, I believe the texts themselves are "complete", as in "a complete curriculum", on their own. (FWIW, I don't care for Hakim's original series because the chatty style annoys me, and I vastly prefer the concise versions.) The student/teacher guides may be valuable to you as an offline user depending on how you want to use them and what kind of output you want your student to produce. So that's where I'd start my decision process, thinking about how I'd want to use them and what output I'd want. HTH.

Just wanted to say thank you for sharing this! And bumping for others who may also find it useful.

There's an active 7th grade planning thread on the logic stage board currently. :) http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/504147-7th-grade-planning/

Rose, I *LOVE* the looks of what you have planned for science for your DD! I have Bryson's book as well - it is awesome! I always enjoy reading what you're doing with writing instruction too. Here's what I'm thinking for next year: LA: Finish Writing With Skill 1, start Writing with Skill 2, and when we need a break from that, parts of Blackbird & Co. Intro to Composition Thinking in Threes, CAP's W&R Book 4, and Killgallon's Paragraphs for Middle School continue Hake Grammar 7 at half-speed and IEW's Fix It Caesar's English 2 (first semester) + Wordly Wise 9 (second semester) Mosdos Jade (poetry, biographies, plays, short stories, and excerpts, including lit devices, vocab, writing prompts, lit analysis) and a homemade book list Math: Just finished prealgebra with LiveOnlineMath video instruction and a Ron Larson text. Looking at Derek Owens Algebra I next, followed by or supplemented with Foerster's Algebra I because of Foerster's increased depth and challenge Science: CPO or Holt Life science as a basic spine, rounded out with Ellen McHenry's Botany, Cells, and The Brain, and Mr. Q's Anatomy & Physiology, plus Carolina Science's Twig video subscription History: K12's Human Odyssey 3 (Modern Times to Contemporary Era) Logic: Art of Argument. Re-read and formally discuss The Fallacy Detective and The Thinking Toolbox. Also continue Perplexors because DS loves them. Other: Review US and world geography occasionally via SheppardSoftware.com, CNN Student News, art & music appreciation informally via documentaries and live performances/exhibits, continue HS PE, martial arts, and competitive swimming. (Edited as we get closer to fall. :laugh: )

I really enjoyed that article and now plan to implement those ideas too. Thank you for posting it!

$40 is a great price! You can probably even sell it for the same or more when you're finished with it. I've seen used sets sell for twice that price online. I haven't looked in quite a while, but you used to be able to buy the student pages in pdf format on IEW's website (even if you didn't buy the DVD set new from them) for $15, so you might check into that or call them directly.

I hope you get more responses from other moms who've BTDT and have older kids, but some things struck me and also wanted to give you a bump. First, hugs to you and your DS. You've both been through a lot. Second, I don't think he sounds as "behind" as you're afraid he is. Writing With Skill 1 is challenging, and even though it is marketed to students as young as 5th grade, DO NOT let that make you feel despair because you don't think he is ready for it yet. Several here on the forum are using it with 7th, 8th, even 9th graders. I believe my DS is getting a lot more out of now as a 6th grader than if he had done it last year. Older kids can move through it faster, click with the concepts more quickly, skip repetitive sections, etc. If you want to run through parts of WWE4 first, that might be a good idea, but do feel free to modify, shorten or omit the dictation. Try it and see what happens. Watch the YouTube videos that SWB did with her son called "Dictation With Dan". They show how she gave much more support/assistance with the dictations in WWE4. They are very challenging! IMO, if I had to choose, solid narration skills are more beneficial and really are a prerequisite for doing well in WWS1. I'm assuming you're planning to homeschool for high school, but if I'm misunderstanding that and you are wanting to prepare for public high school, then the WWS series may not be the best prep for that. I like WWS, but public school writing is just a different goal. I totally agree that the Paragraph Book series, or the Writing Skills series by Diana Hanbury King, is a good way to quickly get up to speed for the type of writing expected in public high school. On the other LA items: Analytical Grammar is a great program. I think that will serve him well. FWIW, I tend to agree with delaying formal grammar too. So much of elementary grammar doesn't stick anyway and it repeats the same thing every year. I have no advice on spelling, sorry, but I do agree it is critical, so any progress he can make in a strong program is important and it is definitely worth spending time on. There are varying opinions on cursive vs. print, but it wasn't a hill I was willing to die on with my DS. As long as he can sign his name well and can read cursive written by others, that's probably more than lots of other students can do. Cursive has been dropped in many public schools. I think learning to type well is probably more important, considering the electronic world we inhabit today. The dysgraphia makes typing even more important, IMO. Let your DS read what he wants for now, as long as he reads some every day. That could be for content subjects (history, science) or just for pleasure. Don't force a formal lit program now. In a year or two you can start formal lit analysis and not be behind at all. Some kids (esp. boys) aren't really ready for the type of thinking required for lit analysis until around 9th grade anyway. This article by SWB will likely be very helpful for you and give you peace of mind. What is Literary Analysis (and When to Teach It) It provides a list of simple questions to gently ease into lit analysis with any book, when you are ready. Lit doesn't have to be complex or time consuming. Singapore is a challenging math program. Some would say it is advanced by almost a year, so if he's doing level 5, again, he's not as behind as you think. Some kids (not saying it is expected, but some do) even go from Singapore 5 straight to prealgebra, with level 6 being a year just for review of elementary math and gaining maturity. In math it is critical to have a strong foundation, so do not rush. 9th grade is normal for algebra, 8th grade algebra is considered advanced in many schools. So do not fret, he has plenty of time. For science, awesome that he's doing well in the program he's using now! I bet that is building his confidence in many ways. But don't stress about science, history, other content subjects for now. Let them be interest-led, or just read good library books, watch documentaries. Formal programs can wait until high school while you're building the base of strong skills for reading, writing and math. He'll still learn a ton doing content subjects informally and be just fine. Sorry this got so long. Hugs to you, mama! You are doing great.

My DS is younger, so I don't have any BTDT advice, but I looked up what SWB says about grammar study in high school. She wrote in TWTM (3rd edition, page 482-483) that by the end of middle school, a student should have been exposed to all the grammar skills they'll need, but the student should also continue to study grammar through all four years of high school in order to reinforce those skills and make them automatic. She recommends four years of Rod & Staff materials (Communicating Effectively Books 1 and 2, then R&S's English Handbook), or Analytical Grammar spread over two years followed by some Stewart English, if you need secular materials. FWIW, I haven't used Analytical Grammar, but I see their website also has a high school level "reinforcement" package. Maybe that would fit the bill. Since it sounds like you're not sure, maybe your gut is telling you to continue grammar for a while longer yet. You can always change your mind later. :coolgleamA: Has your DD always used GWG? Maybe look around at other grammar curricula that could be used in high school and see what resonates with you? I don't know yet what I'll do with DS. If he continues to correctly apply his grammar lessons to all his other writing, I doubt we'll actually spend all of high school continuing to study grammar. I just don't think we're that crazy about grammar in this family, but if it was something DS enjoyed I would continue. I might just do a portion of what SWB advises and have him keep a "running list of grammar rules and principles that consistently trip her(/him) up". Another one you might look at, just to finish out this year for your DD, is Daily Paragraph Editing. DS does a page or two of that once in a while too, in addition to his regular grammar, because he thinks its more fun to find others' mistakes. It is good reinforcement. HTH. Also hope others chime in who've decided this already or have BTDT with their high schoolers.

Right, Writer's Jungle is really for the teacher, not the student. Have you used any other BraveWriter products/packages, especially middle school or higher? If so, did you find any of them to be directed to the student?

LOL, Ellie. Thanks for the guilt trip! :coolgleamA: And how would you go about implementing that? I would love to pick the brain of someone who has actually used it, even better if they stuck with it from elementary all the way through high school. I haven't found one yet . . . did you actually use it, or am I remembering that your kids were too old for Writing Strands by the time it came out?

Have you considered BraveWriter or their online classes? That might be your DD's cup of tea if she already likes writing and big-picture instruction. Or SWB's Creative Writer?

I had concerns about that too initially. We are secular homeschoolers and, as I said, we used parts of Jump In without any issues. YMMV. There are threads on here about it that discuss/explore more deeply. Apologia publishes it, but Sharon Watson, the author, is a successful writing instructor/author in her own right, apart from Apologia. Here's her website if you want to learn more about her: http://writingwithsharonwatson.com/

Yes, the TWSS is teacher-intensive. That's why they came out with the SWIs, to make using their approach possible in a non-teacher-intensive format. :laugh: I've heard your stylistic concerns from others who haven't used IEW. We used IEW for a year to prepare us for Writing With Skill and I didn't see those concerns come to fruition, but I was enough of a rebel that I didn't make my DS adhere strictly to ALL the rubric requirements by the end of the course. We limited it to the requirements that made sense to me. I wouldn't recommend IEW for several years in a row, perhaps, but a year of it didn't ruin my DS. :coolgleamA: You know your DD best, so if you don't think it would be good for her, then that's great! Good luck!

IEW's Student Writing Intensive level B is for grades 6 - 8. It has video lessons on DVD and the writing assignment instructions are written to the student. We used parts of Jump In last year and it worked fine (for us) for what it says it does. But Writing Strands . . . oy, we tried it in 4th grade and we couldn't make it work here either. I really wanted to like it based on the S&S but the teeny, tiny incremental steps turned something that could have been good into drudgery. I liked the theory, but it didn't work with my real-life child. We use WWS1 currently and plan to stick with it until we finish the series, but I'm grateful to IEW SWI-B and really like it for late elementary or early middle school.