Nevermind, saw the OP's reply. :thumbup1:

I wonder how much of this "War on Xmas" stuff on that particular network was inspired by Dominion Theology. I wonder what direct links, if any, exist here.

Discerning what's true is difficult, as the only references to Jesus in the time of his supposed life are the bible, and Paul admits his reference is through visions (hallucinations) and Jewish scripture exclusively. ETA: While it makes sense to see him as a product of his time and ethnicity, it also makes sense to see him as a product of the time and ethnicity of any culture. Renaissance artists depicted biblical scenes while all the characters were garbed in medieval clothing, for example. Our illustrated Jesus Mercy and I talked about is very 70's in his image. I wouldn't be surprised to see a resurgence of "bad-ass jesus" in the future. Supply follows demand, kwim?

Yes! My mom saved my children's bible and when she gave it to me many years ago, those pictures brought back memories. Then I found a $2 bill I'd tucked away. That was fun, too.

The bible I got growing up featured illustrations in colored pencil, or pastel maybe. They were very popular. Jesus was always smiling, always hanging out with kids. That image is probably the strongest one I have. But I must have seen too many scenes from bad religious movies because in my imagination he always moves so slow and goofy, like he's concentrating so hard to not let the scarf fall off his head, and a strong wind will knock him over, an insult will make him withdraw into a deep sadness. Those re-enactments were always so kitschy, I thought. It makes sense to me that he fits the characteristics of whatever culture in which he is featured. Ancient images of El, Yahweh and his consort show them in the same style as ancient images of their contemporaries, and Jesus is no different. I don't agree that it's really important that we stress that he would look like an average middle eastern guy. I think hat's a band-aid approach to a problem of religion's own making.

Did you happen to check out umsami's thread? Why Identity and Emotion are Central to Motivating the Teen Brain With this idea fresh in my own brain, my thoughts are that your kid might benefit from more realistic, functional inspiration. School work is not rewarding in and of itself to many kids. Having a side project might help. I wouldn't do it for a grade, but rather for the experience. I'd offer him as many experiences as possible that coincide with his interest. You might think of it as "field trips," but I think of it more like introducing young adults to resources in their area that are relevant to their interests. You might find some meetup groups in your area that provide opportunities to join in. Encouraging your child to be the expert in some field, and learning from him might help. At this age, my kids started to research more into their topics of interest as they saw dh and I were genuinely interested in learning about it. Having a ready audience can be motivating, and when that audience is someone you love and respect, it can be really motivating to learn more. Then uninspiring school work becomes understood as the "grunt work" that serves to meet a particular goal, and that goal provides the internal motivation to get it done. I don't think this is a matter of failing, but a mater of evolving.

With respect, perhaps the smartphone is a symptom of a more complex problem. This is a good question for his social worker.

It would have been nice to include some actual, you know, information, but what I liked was the tone. It wasn't a tone created to set the adult on edge getting ready for the Power Struggle of a lifetime. It set the tone for mentoring an increasingly autonomous person whose growth and development doesn't need to be perceived as a threat to the parent's sense of identity and emotion. Is this news for everyone? Certainly not. Is it news for some? Most likely, yes. Considering the concept of the teen years being like a second toddlerhood that I mentioned upthread was taken from someone's comment on these forums in just the past few days (followed by a number of "likes"), it's likely to be news to some here. And hopefully it's welcome, well received news. Kids deserve more than a hostile environment because they increasingly reject one set of expectations and substitute their own. As a general comment, and no longer as a reply to minnie, I would say that I think Sadie hit the nail on the head when she said she thinks teens tend to have a natural and strong sense of justice. I think this might explain much of the locking of horns. It did in our case. With my own head-strong teen, I learned after many, many events, conversations, sit-down talks, arguments, and exploring hypothetical scenarios, that we really do share the same moral code, but we simply express our support of it in different ways. I believe this is the case between me and my parents as well. I think we all want to see fairness played out, and we all get frustrated when we see people being taken advantage of, or vulnerable to things beyond their control. Who we perceive to be victims and how we respond is very different between me and my parents, and between me and my kids, and yet our response is most certainly inspired by the same desire to see fairness triumph over raw strength, for one example. To umsami's question about incorporating this idea into homeschooling, and project based learning, I'd say that sounds very compatible, though no doubt there are many parents who prefer and provide a more classical education who have developed environments in which their teen children feel positively empowered. I don't think project based education is the only way to inspire this positive environment, but I'm not familiar with how to do so in a conventional setting.

The idea of moving away strikes me as being unhelpfully reactionary, and I'd be concerned it might create unwanted side effects (such as further alienation from you, hiding new friends and hobbies from you). But ultimately, I think you could use some professional advice here. Can you speak with the social worker yourself? Can you get some help for you to design a home environment in which you don't have to change your personality, but can tweak some expectations, his as well as yours? Can the social worker help the two of you come together to meet some common goals? Giving him some control here might work to both of your advantages. In any case, best of luck to you.

It's nice to see an article that talks about the teen years in a positive light. I suspect these years are considered troubling (some liken them to a second toddlerhood, which I find insulting and belittling) because they are years in which the adolescent learns how to successfully reject the behavioral expectations of the parent, and instead develop and honor their own expectations. The adolescent isn't being willfully naughty, s/he's learning how to recognize and express their natural, budding autonomy. I suspect what many parents think of as locking horns or "power struggles" (another expression I find insulting and belittling) is more accurately a matter of finding that the adolescent's behavior is not convenient. Behaviors may no longer be compatible, but I suspect a number of battles could be avoided with a different outlook, a different expectation, more reliable information. I think parents are conditioned in some way to expect a battle with their teens. Our society pits adults against children in many ways, and I think this is a nice alternative. It's informative and hopeful. Thanks for sharing it.

Whatever you do, don't search for images on the web. The Fonz in short denim shorts is not a good look. Really. :blink:

That's what I used to think until my kids started asking questions I had long since ignored. You don't follow Santa's rules, you get coal. You don't follow Jesus' rules, you get tortured for eternity. Er, happy holidays? :huh: :laugh: Xmas monsters are a great genre! 9 Legendary Monsters of Christmas My favorite summary is from tumblr.

ooh! How long will a can last you before it goes bad?

That's a tough one. Metallica seriously kicked ass. But then, Nirvana never jumped the shark.

Can you run us through an illustration of what might have happened according to your beliefs? Do I understand correctly that you believe Jesus died and nothing more happened until easter morning? I also find this conversation really interesting, most especially as I'd never really given this question much thought.

Oh my, how embarrassing! Sorry for the awkward, irrelevant comment. Yes, I've had this talk. Obviously, Jesus wasn't involved, then again, neither were ultimatums. They inspire one to feel the need to stand their ground, ime. We've had talks like this and continue to have it. We've been doing this years. In my experience, small, timely, helpful constructive comments are better than one big talk, especially as one big talk is never enough. Pace yourself, OP. But I'm serious about listening to him. You may think there's a work ethic problem and he may think there's a totally different problem that is actually zapping his enthusiasm. Good luck.

Honestly, and I don't mean to distract from your intent but rather to help out (really), I think it might be worthwhile to consider how this will sound from your teen's pov. If my kids were to hear a "coming to Jesus" talk that ended in work ethics, they'd consider it a manipulative talk. I offer this because I'm betting you don't intend for it to sound that way, and if you can avoid it sounding that way, you would. So honestly, I'd leave out the Jesus aspect to it and cut straight to the chase. Tell your teen you're genuinely concerned about his work ethic. You're worried that the habits he solidifies today will impact him negatively when he's older, and he'll have to work that much harder to accomplish what he really wants. Tell him you want to help him achieve his goals, and one way you know how to achieve goals is to work diligently, even when the core necessities are done. Paying attention to details, predicting and avoiding future problems, and learning how to show reliability with others will help him immeasurably. Then listen to him, seriously, and help him brainstorm solutions to his problems. Help him learn how to steer his own ship. Now is a good time to learn what your stepping back while still mentoring him can look like. Now is a good time for him to learn to identify and find solutions to his problems. If he doesn't see this as a problem, chances are, he sees something else as the problem. Listen to what he says, and try to work on a solution together. Throw Jesus into it and I think it's likely he'll get distracted, and ultimately you'll be lecturing him and he won't hear a word and nothing will change. Theology leaves open too many opportunities to get distracted. At worst you'll have given him a reason to question his faith. Belief = work ethics? Too many examples of that working in the opposite direction for what you want. I'd keep them separate and work on the practical problem of work ethics. Talk with him about your faith at another, neutral time. [ETA: I do understand now this is not a literal expression. Thank you Hoot and Davysmom!]

I didn't miss your point. It's a red herring and irrelevant to Proudpapa77's point. The point isn't whether or not kids attending public school are ever conditioned to believe that mythological stories can be relied upon as factual events. That's just embarrassing as an American, imo. The point is this happens by design in many home schools, and many home educators will refer to this reason as a primary reason for educating their children at home. It's not only embarrassing in light of the mountains of evidence available to anyone who cares to learn, but because it keeps children ignorant of, or teaches them to distrust the value of the scientific method in general. It's anti-science, and it's anti-education. Scientific literacy is as important as reading literacy, and to suppress literacy on purpose gives home education a bad name.

It's one thing to believe a thing is true, quite another for an educator to teach it is factual. I agree this contributes to giving homeschoolers a bad name - teaching mythology and known falsehoods as factual information. Many people take pride in this, even.

In a nutshell, a prominent public figure exclaimed, "They exist! Ermergehd!!!1" To which the rest of the civilized world replies, "Yeah, and?"

Kat, I think she's not disagreeing with you or trying to get to to stop posting. She doesn't know what you're saying. Literally. That's all, I think.

For what it's worth, I'm not judging you for mentioning something, I'm judging your argument. I judge it to be shortsighted, sloppy, based on emotional pleading, and remarkably insensitive towards the people in this community. More data is needed to determine if autism is any more relevant to the safety of the public as it relates to the second amendment than red hair, being born last, being left handed, or even the ease with which one can purchase certain weapons. Interestingly, there is a clear and obvious correlation between religious beliefs and mass murder, and in many cases, that correlation is divulged publicly and proudly. Why dismiss it? Religion is often a stated intent in mass murder, from the hundreds of events expelling and executing Jews throughout Europe, to the Inquisition to ISIS, and that's just the Abrahamic religions! Religion is less directly correlated to other wars and battles throughout history, as well as those inspiring our modern "peacekeeping" agenda and political motives around the world. To argue that autism increases the risk of being killed by a mass murderer belongs with the same statistic that shows being killed by falling furniture is more likely to end an American's life than a terrorist.

Autistic groups and organizations didn't invent torturing people to convert before death. There's never been a "compel them to convert" campaign to "inspire" people to convert to autism. Autistic people have never identified people as enemies such as "witches" or "heretics," or argued that it's justifiable to steal land [ETA: or BABIES, for god's sake], imprison, or execute those who are not autistic enough. They've never waged wars or crusades, never led entire congregations to drink poisoned kool-aid until everyone is dead, or falsify reports, inspiring others to target workers in medical clinics or other places of work. Not a single abortion bombing, suicide bomb, or mass attack on a group of people has been waged in the name of autism or to appease some imaginary super-autistic individual who can only communicate through secret code (which looks to nonbelievers like ordinary coincidences). School girls are not kidnapped and sold into slaver, school boys are not beheaded to appease a super-autistic individual who is worthy of obedience and honor. Autism isn't an idea. It cannot breach physical borders. It does not inspire fear, and then turn around and offer hope. It is not shared or passed on by virtue of an entire culture normalizing certain beliefs and assumptions as valid and reliable. It does not inspire people to kill any more than red hair inspires people to steal souls. It is a neurological marker that is loosely identified by virtue of certain behaviors, it does not argue for challenging behaviors any more than Tourette's argues for ticks. Your analogy is sloppy, short-sighted, emotionally driven, and devoid of logical and factual substance. It's more fear-mongering. And it's shameful. An apology is the appropriate response. Education would help prevent more offensiveness.

Thank you for pointing that out. What an awful, insensitive, insulting comment. I should say it's more practical to put religious people on the do-not-sell-guns-to list. Body-count for body-count, which group is more deadly? People with autism or people with gods? Or will people now start qualifying people with autism as "peaceful autists" like they do "peaceful muslims"?

Shh. You're not supposed to focus on that. Just focus on Kids These Days, and how tough you were at a young age. You know, remember how when life handed you lemons, you pulled yourself up by your bootstraps, made the best damn lemonade in those sweaty boots, convinced people to purchase some of that special sweaty-betty-boot-strap lemonade for a fantaistic price, made a bundle, went on to save your city through hard work ethics and a firm handshake, and you did it all while keeping your house immaculately clean, too. Kids these days. They're wimps. I laugh at my older kids because they say the same thing about kids these days (who are like, three to five whole years younger). They have no idea they were supposed to be the generation that screwed up America. But wait, I was of the generation that screwed up America. Mtv and devil music. Now wait, my parents' generation screwed up America. All that free love and civil rights and stuff. No wait, my grandparents' generation screwed up America. America was just find before people had TVs in their homes and started putting on airs. No wait...