I think it helps to have a secure, confident demeanor, too. I think when you are having an embarrased posture/demeanor, there are people who pick up on that and think they are going to "helpfully" get in your business. Acting confident and somewhat nonchalant, moving on in the conversation as if it is a non-issue or just some obvious thing there is no need to discuss -- these are things that help me. But if anyone has read things where they say that kids who are more obviously impaired instead of just coming across as poorly behaved, get treated better? I think we are in that category. I worried a lot about what it would be like when my son got big enough that he would no longer pass for just a large toddler. And -- I think it was easier than it was before. I think this is partly that I held my head up and decided that I was going to be one of those women who carried it off and had an obvious love, care, respect, and blase acceptance of their kids. I see women like this and I totally check them out and view them as role models. I will also look back at people like "what is the problem?" Not in a rude way, but like a "this look could stay neutral or turn rude" way (in my mind lol). And I think they are looking to me, to see if I am going to look embarassed, or needy, or unconfident. And if I look like I have it under control and I am handling it -- then I think people accept that and I come across that way. But what is messed up is it takes time to develop that demeanor, so I think people get these comments when they have newly diagnosed kids and could really benefit from not having to deal with comments or looks! I have heard this from a few other people. I have had some hard moments, but it is not something where I feel like "I hope nothing is said, I hope there is no look" before I go out. And, I used to feel like that. Now it is not something I am thinking about that much. I also had it pointed out to me, to make sure I don't shut myself off from conversations that might turn out to be nice, just b/c I want to avoid conversations that might not be nice. And -- that is something I try to think of, too. B/c there are a lot of nice people and I prefer to focus on them and think of nice comments and gestures that people make, too. (But again -- b/c it is obvious, so I get that.)

I am also realizing, that she was saying "non-direct" (I think). I thought to myself "oh she means inferences." But really -- maybe they are not actually inferences, just questions where the answer is not found in the question or in the statement the question is about. Maybe it is lower than inferences, which would make sense. I am not sure what the terminology means exactly.

Okay, I am pretty sure that "because it is raining" would be considered non-direct for the (more basic levels at least) of this study. B/c you have not come out and said "it is raining." They have to infer that is the reason. Even if they have previously memorized "the function of an umbrella" or "why we use an umbrella" ---- it is still a correct answer and not a random statement or a non-sequitur. Edit: just realized I mis-read what you had written. Yeah, it is hard to get the sensible answers! And not some grammatically correct, true statement! I know what you mean. My son has memorized a lot of responses from when he did function/reverse function, though, so he can actually get a lot correct, which is exciting! Not everybody will know he memorized those, lol! But it was like a 45-minute lecture so I don't totally know! But I do have the copy of the notes (they gave us a copy of everyone's power points) and I think the study is listed at the end. I do know that saying "how does he feel?" or "why did he do x" are non-direct for my son's level. Even if it is mega-obvious, if it is not directly stated, it counts for him. Like -- anything where the answer is not literally said in the question or the preceding statement. Like -- direct is "the man is wearing a blue hat. What is he wearing?" That is a direct question, b/c the answer was exactly in the sentence. In the samples, it was at the sentence level, too. I feel like one of the sample sentences was "the girl is in bed" and a non-direct question was "why is she in bed" and "because she is tired" was non-direct, and direct questions would have been "who was in the bed? where is the girl?" But my impression is that as the direct questions got more complicated, you make sure to add non-direct questions, too, instead of allowing it to get really unbalanced by not addressing non-direct. But that it is fine/normal for non-direct to lag. More not to either a) wait until much later to add in non-direct questions and b) not think "oh no what is going wrong" when they lag. But I could have misunderstood this! I was just listening to the lecture and it may have been a little over my head.

No, she said more that they were two separate things and needed to be worked on separately, and that direct comprehension is easier and will come sooner/faster than the non-direct questions. Her examples were at the sentence level, but she said that kids were at varying levels for the study. Her point was more -- don't expect inferencing with wh questions if you only work on direct questions. My understanding is that she thought they should be worked on together, and you just expect kids to miss the non-direct questions that are otherwise the same difficulty as the direct questions they are getting right.

http://www.readingrockets.org/shows/launching/brain#transcript This is a video that includes using V and V for autism. If you go to "playlist" it is "from emotions to comprehension." I have a major soft spot for Henry Winkler who is the host/narrator :) The study looks cool! A couple of years ago now, my son did a speech eval where the woman was holding up a picture of a child who had fallen off a bike, looked hurt -- super-obvious. He had no idea what had happened or how to explain it. We used to read a mouse book (from those 'if you give a mouse a cookie' books) and it shows the mouse falling asleep, and then smoke coming out of the oven, then the mouse throwing away burned cookies. He would have no idea what happened. But he making progress now, we just read a No, David book (the Christmas one) and there was a picture where there are kids throwing snowballs, and David looks upset, and kids are kind-of running away from the middle of the picture. In the background you can see a broken window, and it is in the middle of the picture, but it is not super-obvious. I said "what happened?" and he said "the window is broken." It was huge, amazing progress for him, to be able to tell what was happening in the picture -- you are supposed to know David broke the window with a snowball, but he never got it before. There is a picture in another No, David book, where on one page he has a baseball bat and a ball. Then on the next page there is a broken vase on the floor, and the ball on the ground next to it. Last summer he had no idea what had happened from one page to the next page. Totally separately -- I went to an autism workshop and one of the presenters was a speech therapist. She was talking about kids around the "answering wh questions" level. One of the points she made was between questions with direct answers and questions with answers that were not directly explained and had to be inferenced. She had a copy of a study where she put the information in her power point.... there were two points. One, if kids practiced/were taught to answer direct wh questions, it did not transfer to being able to answer inferenced wh questions. But then she showed that if they were taught/asked inferencing questions, they improved with inferencing questions, too. But for some kids it took many more sessions for inferencing questions and they made much slower progress. But, all of the kids she showed data for did make improvement. It just took longer and had to be worked on. So I am just commenting :)

I am going to add, about the scary low percentages. Here is the thing: it is lower than other kids his age, but you will just have to ask and find out, what that means in a real-life way. My older son exited OT and still has some lower skills. But are they so low that they ruin his life? No, they are not. They are just numbers on a paper at a certain level. Now -- many, many kids have a lot greater improvement. But even with a worst-case of some numbers not rising a huge amount..... even then, OTs create work-arounds so that kids can learn skills despite a low score in a certain area. And then -- kids have a way of being flexible and playing to their strengths, too, a lot of the time. It sounds like your son has a lot of real-world skills that are going well for him -- those are strengths, that are not going anywhere regardless of numbers on a paper. Good for him! These are his strengths! But back to my son.... he really can't play basketball with other kids his age, he is too slow to keep up. But he can shoot baskets! It is not ideal, but he makes it work for him, he has a friend that he shoots baskets with. It took a lot for him to get to a point of being able to shoot baskets. But now if he would rather shoot baskets than play basketball, it is close enough. He is not a fast swimmer, but he can go in the deep end and he can go off the low diving board and swim to the side of the pool totally fine. This is also a major accomplishment for him. So it works out for him. This is, practically, what some low scores can look like sometimes. This is a kind-of good example, but still, the numbers can be low but in real-life it can be something that is not that noticeable overall. And most likely -- those numbers will go up! At least a little. And some of them might go up a lot. My older son had a couple of scores that went up dramatically, and it really helped. It covered up the areas where he did not make as much progress, or more that the OT could work with him using his strengths. He is really a child where you would not guess that he has some low scores, and when they were even lower (he had "below the 10th percentile" but they did not tell me numbers specifically), you would not have known, either. But it is really hard to hear the low numbers! But they will quit being so big a deal once a little time passes. They are helping him to get OT services, so that is a bright side.

When my older son was in private OT paid for by our insurance, he had insurance goals, but I was not involved with them. The OT took care of that. I trusted her to do that part, it was not something where I needed to be involved, anymore than I would need to be at the dentist. I trust the dentist to be holistic and tell me about the choices that are on my side (as the parent/consumer) and then some other things are not my concern. So I know that my son had that (I think, anyway, it sounds very familiar) but it was a "mentioned to me in passing" thing for me. OhE -- I say this as somebody who is fairly in-the-loop with OT in my town and as somebody who knows quite a few kids (and am around quite a few kids) who have been in OT long-term. Sure, some kids get the results like you are talking about with the peer child. Other kids don't. Kids are different from each other, they don't all have the same progress. So I really hesitate to say -- if your son had had the same amount of OT as the peer child, he would have the same outcome now. I mean -- sure, it would be nice. But it is not realistic. That is not saying "I don't think it is worthwhile." B/c I do think it is worthwhile. But you have to compare your own child to your own child, you can't compare across children. It would be nice if it worked like that, but it really doesn't work like that. You have to keep in mind, for one thing, that with the diagnoses you list and say "it is the same diagnosis," none of those diagnoses require jerky arm movements. That boy may never have had any kind of motor planning problems and may never have had any jerky, non-fluid movements. My son with an ASD diagnosis does not! And we think he does not have ADHD in addition to ASD. And locally SPD is not given as a separate diagnosis when ASD is diagnosed, in general. So these diagnoses are actually giving a VERY LOW amount of information about what a child's OT scores are going to be like and what their skills are going to be like. They are all over the place between different kids. OP -- I think you are (hopefully) going to have a follow-up with the OT and be able to ask these questions. When my older son was in OT, I had a large amount of questions, and I was able to schedule a parent meeting with the OT for 30 minutes or so. In that 30 minutes, I had all my questions answered, and felt a lot better about everything that was going on and with understanding where things stood and the direction we were going in. We scheduled this for after he had a couple of sessions and the OT had a chance to get to know him a little. With my younger son, he is mostly sensory-seeking and under-reactive. Have you had a chance to read about sensory sensitivity yet? There are different areas (vestibular is one area, it has to do with knowing what your body is doing in space iirc). There are different options. It should, hopefully, get clearer as you find out more about it. Have you filled out or seen a sensory survey or rating scale for him? For these you answer questions on a checklist and it helps identify his sensory needs. But there is a learning curve, but it is also not that complicated, once you are used to it. And the OT will help you figure it out! I hope, anyway.

There is a thread where we were talking about this recently.... basically, sometimes these "manifests as sensory seeking" things can be more "cured" by OT. Sometimes they can be more "managed." If they are telling you they don't know which it will be - -they are being honest. If it turns out to be "managed," don't worry -- there are a lot of things that DO help, they are just things that continue as part of a lifestyle, instead of "one and done." It is not like "there is no help." It is just a different kind of help.

Awesome!!!!!!!!

Sometimes the beauty of making a template, is that you can start re-directing to the template. Like -- he comes and whines "it is too much work blah blah" and you can just say "go look at your list, you know what to do." I mean, it is not perfect, but if he basically has a good attitude but is overwhelmed, which is what it sounds like, then it is a possibility for helping him to be more independent. If you have gotten into a dynamic that is not working anymore, then I think you CAN set limits by having a response you give, and then you re-direct him (to his dad, to the list) after you have talked about something once already. You can also, if this might work, just *go somewhere else* sometimes, so that maybe he will figure it out with your husband and not you, or figure it out himself. Or you can *suddenly be busy* and need him to make an effort for about an hour (or whatever) and then you will come check on him and help him if he needs help. I do think you should think about: is this *really* a continuation of the same troubling dynamic from high school? If it is, what can change about your relationship and how often you are called on to play this role? Are there areas where you can step back? Are there areas where he still needs help but maybe could be helped by someone besides you, or where with some time investment he could be more independent, or you could make a plan for how you will send him to other resources and/or teach him to use other resources for help? And then, if it is not, then I think you should step back and really try to think of him as a high school graduate, and try to spend time thinking about how he "used to" do some things in high school, but now he "is not doing them anymore." Spend some time venting. Spend some time praying. It sounds like it was a hard, stressful time, which I can TOTALLY believe, and maybe you didn't have a lot of options for sending him to public school or to do various things, which I can also TOTALLY believe. AND, get a break somehow. Or get a lot of breaks. I think taking breaks can go a long way. And, feeling like it is not all on your shoulders. It sounds like too much is on your shoulders, maybe, and I think you need to look for options. And, I think you may have to set boundaries, too. But sometimes the easiest way to set a boundary for me is to just be unavailable or gone. If you are afraid to be gone or unavailable, b/c of bad things that have happened in the past..... if it is very long ago, maybe it is time for another try. If it has not been long but things did not go well, then I think it is time to look for help some more. If volunteer work in an option (and I understand it may not be) then if he was doing volunteer work with someone/someplace where he could see that he could do some things without your help, or ask someone for help besides you, then that might be helpful, too. Also, keep in mind that asking for help is a really stereotypical problem with ASD. So -- if you want him to have this skill of "asking people besides mom for help" ----- if this is what he is doing, and not just venting to you (in which case -- I am more in favor of boundaries/not always being available to be vented to)..... then that might mean going all the way back to "sometimes we need to ask other people for help, it is normal, this is how you do it." I think there is stuff like this at socialthinking.com. I am not familiar with their stuff for teens and adults, but I know they have a teen and adult section, and this is the kind of thing they have. I really do think that he is old enough, though, you can have boundaries of "this is not a good time for me, I can talk to you later" and things like that. I don't think you need to become super-strict this way. But if right now he is coming to you and it is bothering *you* then I think something needs to change. And just knowing that you can say "hey, this time I am busy," even if 75% of the time you may be ready -- I think that goes a long way mentally. I also think if he is re-hashing things -- and his only method of rehashing things -- is to come and vent to you -- and that is stressful to you or it seems like it is something you are ready to put it in the past (since you have been doing it a long time)....... then maybe if you are less available he will develop some different coping skills. Maybe you have an idea for some coping skills (or you set him up with coping routines that you direct him to do ----- you could have a list of things for him to do, or other options he has, that you go over, and if you know he is capable of them, you can re-direct him to do those things when you are busy) b/c maybe he won't just suddenly cope on his own ------ but I don't think that means you cannot get to a better place than you are at now, wrt this kind of thing. But otoh ----- if this only comes up when he has something new to do ----- then I think that is something where, maybe this is just how it is when there is something new, and it is reasonable that he needs the extra help. But you get to have the extra help happen in a way that works for you, if he is bothering you with complaining, you have a right not to be bothered excessively. But remember when you want to change a behavior: there are several sides to it. A necessary side is providing/teaching/allowing a replacement/alternative behavior. What is the alternative behavior you want him to have? "just figure it out" is a nice idea but let's say it is not realistic. Then moving on to Plan B -- my ideas are: tell him to ask for help from other people, or set him up with a template/list/organizational system. You also need your son to have a motivation. He may not be motivated if you are always available and that is working out fine for him. Then you also need him to like the new system b/c it works for him.

Can you make labels and boundaries for the different stacks, and then move the piles into the proper stacks? Can you have an example with each section, or a list that says "here is what to do now?" I think you need to try to break it down for him in some way. Maybe he could have his own table, and take one stack to his table at a time, so that he is not "seeing" all that there is to do. I think you can try things like this -- templates of directions, labels, dividing the space, etc. But I think you also might need to think about him having a different job or a different responsibility. If there is another option for him, that might help a lot, too. I do also think, you might need to devote some time to working out a system with him, and gradually doing less and less with him. That may be what is realistic. Expecting him to teach himself or learn on the job does not sound like it is realistic, so I think that means reality is -- try to hold his hand for a bit, but also try to set up systems he can follow, and try to reduce the help he needs. I also think ----- and this is how I am ------ I think you might set out an amount that is reasonable to do in one day or one time period. If it is a never-ending shuffle, then that would overwhelm a lot of people. Giving people chances to feel like "hey, I got my stack done, good for me" is part of being a good manager, imo. I have had times when it seems like "well, it will never be finished, so I might as well take my time." That is my response to having a never-ending pile, but when I have an amount I can finish, I do a lot better. This is something I know about myself, so I try to make things go this way for me. But if your son can't organize that for himself, it might help if you organize that for him, and just consider it part of having an employee that you want to keep, b/c I do think good employers and managers do think about things like this and make the effort.

Wow! What an improvement :)

Awesome!

I have seen (in the past) a page on Autism Speaks that lets you click on your state and see what kind of coverage and programs there are. I would try that or ask around and try to find out. If it might be available -- I would totally check all of that out.

In my state that waiver is not funded enough to actually really cover things. Partly I think our governor does not accept funds. I am not sure. I think it may be that there is a waiting list that is years long. Also the autism waiver is lumped (after a certain young age) together with intellectual disability or developmental delay, so if you do not have a qualifying developmental delay, then you cannot be on the list for the waiver. So I HOPE that would be an option in OPs location, but I do not think it is available in our state. We do not have a state mandate for autism coverage, either, so there are kids who are qualifying for speech or OT that is covered but not b/c they have an autism diagnosis. We have military insurance so I am not really "up" on all of this, it is more what my impression is, but I confident this is not all covered by Medicaid here. We are known as a "treatment desert" or some term like that, we are the opposite of the states with a good reputation for access to services.

Just about my son -- he has gotten more and more purposeful. Since he has learned how to play with the dog, when he is outside, he is playing with the dog. He does not wander around the backyard much at all anymore. It is a couple of minutes where it used to be 30 minutes or an hour, or sometimes even longer. He likes to turn on the hose and water plants (the same as my other kids). He can ride around on a big wheel a bit (the same as my other kids). In his room -- he can find several things to do in his room now, and choose them on his own. He likes to pick things to do in his room and do them. Sometimes he wanders around bored, but he can usually be re-directed and not get fixated on one thing that he can't do right then (which he used to spend a lot of time doing). So this is all improvement he has had. This is what people are seeing who say they really doubt he would benefit from medication. But he does not have high scores. He has global developmental delay, he is delayed in a lot of areas, especially language. He is not doing anything advanced. He does not really have splinter skills (he does not have high skills to be splinter skills). So the bright side is -- his skills are pretty even, and this means some advantages for him (things just being easier and less frustrating for him in some ways -- he has a greater consistency in what he can do b/c he does not have splinter skills, I think there are fewer highs but also less of a roller coaster ride for him, and I think people are nicer to him b/c they never think "he can do this, why can't he do that"). The negative -- he does not have splinter skills that can be leveraged to help him in other ways. I think the leveraging is the thing that would be really nice about having some really, really strong areas. He does have relative strengths that are great for leveraging, but they are in the general range of everything else.

I am skipping to the bottom.... I have asked about this wrt my younger son. At this time -- there is no thought that he has attention issues that medication would help. I have talked about this with people who have seen before/after of kids where medication has been tried. He does not have the signs that kids have had where medication has helped. The bottom line -- he does not have this kind of attention difficulty (or he does not at this time -- I believe things can change). I have had the conversation of "this is what we are seeing, this is what we are not seeing." They are just not seeing it. When I am told things that they see that are helped by medication -- I am not seeing that those things are issues for him, either. It is hard to say this really specifically but it is like -- under what situations is he focusing or not focusing. When he is not focusing ----- we are seeing that motivations systems are extremely effective, and explicit teaching is extremely effective. This morning at day camp he was greeted by someone with a "stop, look, hello" card -- and he was perfect. B/c he knew exactly what to do (and they have worked on it with him). At other times -- he is really, really iffy on greetings. But this kind of thing seems to show -- that it is something where what he needs is teaching on "why it is nice to say hello, when and how we say hello, etc." It is not fundamentally an attention issue. I have been told that for someone similar to him -- they will see that these techniques (and similar) are not as effective as hoped for or very on-and-off in how they work. But then when the child is on medication -- these techniques work much, much better b/c the child is ready for effective learning. So this is what I am told. Does it mean that I am not told my son sometimes will stare at things and sometimes we think this may be "verbal stimming" and sometimes it may be a kind of withdrawal (probably showing he is overwhelmed in some way) etc. etc.? No, he still does this sometimes. But I have talked about this and it is not something that people see improve with medication with other kids (and plus ----- other strategies DO work with him -- that we can do in response.... or just choices about how to structure his environment). From what I have heard -- kids on medication still do this, you don't just increase the dose until you don't see this anymore -- it is just not like that -- it is just decreasing the frequency, making it easier for kids to transition back to "ready to learn," and things like that -- it is not like "it will just go away." When it is already at a low level for my son -- and he transitions to "ready to learn" when his needs are met -- it is more like "well, often this is a sign from him that something is not going right." And this makes sense b/c -- changing things makes him do better in this area -- which again is part of why people think "he is not someone who is really unable to pay attention as well as they could if they had medication." And on top of this -- over the last two years, this kind of behavior has decreased and decreased at home to the point where I very, very rarely see it at home. I still see it on outings once in a while. So it really seems like if he is doing this somewhere else -- then it is not just him, it is something about what is going on, and my understanding of medication is that it would not be that way in the same way (though there might also be differences in different places). There is more to it than this -- a lot is just that I trust people and they explain it to me in some way that makes sense to me. And also -- his interventions are working, and I think there is an idea that when they are seeing "with these supports and interventions he is doing x,y,z" then they don't say "so let's add medication." I think it is more when the other supports and interventions are just not effective, and then that is when medication is going to be recommended and when they can see if medication is effective. My impression is ----- medication will NOT mean -- "now supports and interventions are not necessary b/c the medication is so effective." It just means "now the supports and interventions are more consistently effective." And then they are still trying to do all the things to make sure supports are appropriate, learning is appropriate, and all those things. This is for my son who is considered, right now, mild-to-moderate autistic disorder. But the thing is -- I am just responding to "does autism ALWAYS include AD(H)D?" and I am going with "no." I think it does go together all the time, but not always. And, the main thing I think it comes down to -- what is causing the inattention? Is the inattention caused by the mechanism that AD(H)D medications can address? And if it is caused by that same mechanism, then I think "sure, it makes sense that the medication will help." But if I think (and this is what I currently think) that signs of inattention my son has are not caused by the same mechanisms -- then it does not make sense to think that AD(H)D medication would help him. There is a "motivational" theory for autism that I think fits my son in a lot of ways. Once he knows "why" he should care, and "how" to care, then all of a sudden -- there he goes, doing those things. Before he knows those things -- he is very inattentive. But I think for him - it is a difference between knowing/understanding but not paying attention, vs. not yet knowing/understanding, and so not having a reason to pay attention. This is what I see with him right now. But I don't think those two things are mutually exclusive in other children -- I think those are kids where medication helps. I have definitely heard of kids who take off and make rapid progress after starting medication, too. But when I talk to parents they do not say things to make me feel like my son would benefit (b/c he does not have the symptoms where they saw improvement, basically). But I feel like that with some diet/allergy stuff, too. When my son is very healthy and his bowels are regular, and he has no signs of pain (looking at very exhaustive lists ----- and I feel better about this now b/c he had a tooth problem that was hurting him a little while ago, and so now I know what his pain looks like)....... so I do not have reasons to think that he has allergies. I have talked to quite a few people about this, mostly parents who have had success with allergy diets, and that is the conclusion I have reached at present. But I am open to seeing if maybe I was wrong or not noticing something, too.

I think in our church, it would be possible in the 3rd-and-up Sunday School, but depending on what the teacher said. For 2nd and under -- I think it would be difficult for a teacher to manage. And then you want it to go well in practice -- and I think it would be hard to get that result. This is like -- maybe something you want to take on. But I would expect it to be difficult in logistical ways. If it is for him to be occupied while he is with parents -- I think anything you want to do along these lines is fine. There is really no expectation of reading in our Sunday School for the younger age group. I would only ask for it if it was something I saw as a necessity for participation -- not something that is more of a nice extra. I see this as a nice extra as far as "I want him to have it during Sunday School." I also, honestly, think you have to be aware that it can depend on the situation, but giving a child an electronic device can go two ways. One way ---- they isolate themselves with the device b/c they can play with it and not have to join in the group as much. But the other way -- they can use it in a way where they are showing things to other kids, and it helps them to be part of the group. There is a great deal that has to be intentional with electronic devices, and a lot of conscious decisions adults make to make it go the second way more, where it is like "hey, why don't you show the other kids this thing on your iPad" and things like that. If it is that kind of situation. And, I am not sure that this it that kind of situation, and then if it is, it will take a lot of effort on your part to make this happen most likely. But if you are thinking of it just wrt reading -- then it is not this kind of thing. But a lot of things with iPads in general are this kind of thing. So overall -- if it is while he is with you, I think go for it. If he is in Sunday School, my feeling is -- when he is a little older, I think it would be very manageable logistically, b/c other kids would be more mature and have longer attention spans. But while he is young enough that a lot of kids are not reading, I do not think he is missing anything. I would personally not be happy with a K-1st Sunday School where children of this age were expected to read and read aloud -- it is just not what I think this age group needs to be doing. I mean -- sure the Bible verse can be written and the teacher can hold it up ----- but do kids need to read it? I don't think so. And for the rest of the stories -- at ours, the teachers reads to the kids, and sometimes shows an animated clip from youtube. The only reading kids do is, if they are able to, they can choose to read a Zondervan kids Bible during the time they are in the adult service, but they can also color pages of Bible scenes, or they can look at board books or picture books about the Bible. And really the kids who are reading are few in number. Maybe this just has to do with the norms for our town, though. Kids are really not expected to actually read in Kindergarten here.

Honestly I think you have got a young 6-year-old who is making wonderful progress in reading ----- I think it is way to soon to assume anything about how he will read print. But, I also think, there is nothing "othering" about technology at this point. It is just cool. Lots of people at my church are bringing their Kindle to read the Bible. It is nice b/c it has the larger print when needed, and it has the dictionary feature. I think that is enough of a reason. I don't think it has an implication of "you can't read." I also think, to be honest, if you want a young 6-year-old to have greater access to the Bible ------- well, who wouldn't want that? How many 6-year-olds have a reading level such that they can sit and read passages from the Bible? Ime that is not very many kids. They are children in Kindergarten and in 1st grade. They are reading little-kid Bibles if they are reading anything, and the Zondervan easy-reader Bible we have at our church is really basic (my kids have not used it but some families use it when it is right for them, the church has several copies). But really -- just say you want your son to have access to the Bible, if that is what you want. And then -- it is not like it is either/or, that if you are giving him access to the Bible now, then he will NEVER read from print fluently. It is just like --- here are two separate things, they do not have bearing on each other. If you were saying "so should I stop Barton b/c I have read the Ben Foss book and I am afraid my son may never have the same facility with print as a non-dyslexic child" then I would say "that is crazy." But that is not what you are saying. There is really no need to worry about that with a 6-year-old who is making rapid progress with Barton. Also, my older son had a big leap last year and he scored in the 93rd percentile on MAP reading comprehension. He may never do it again, as he does not have consistent scores, but he did it this time. This is even though he still got lower scores (like low 90s) on the word-reading parts of his neuropsych testing. It means he is not doing that as well as other kids his age, but it doesn't seem like it is holding him back. And I know for a fact, age-for-age he was behind where your son is now, at the same age. But I also think, kids have different things going on, and maybe your son will be one where he may not use print so much. But that is just b/c there are no guarantees in life. But that should not have anything to do with either providing or withholding Bible apps. I would ask his Sunday School teachers before sending him in, though, just to check with them. I think it could be something where during Sunday School the teacher controls it b/c it could be a distraction to other kids who think it is for playing games or who want to see it. If he was at a school then kids would get used to this (they get used to kids who carry iPads just fine at my kids' school) but it is different when kids are in school every day and there is a lot of consistency and worth it to spend a few days teaching kids how to behave wrt "some kids have iPads" and I don't think that may be fair to expect of a Sunday School teacher who is trying to have kids that only come for an hour a week and who are young. I also think that the norm for this age is "kids cannot read the Bible" so I do not think he will stand out or miss out for just an hour or two a week. If you are there with him then I think it is different. I also would worry about it coming across like "he has this fancy tech gadget, but not all the families in the church are going to be able to buy a fancy tech gadget for their 6-year-old" and I think that is something to avoid. If he was older to where I felt like "he needs this" then I would think "he needs it." But I don't see how he needs it at his current age when I can't imagine that the children are expected to read during Sunday School. There are also people at my church who read the Bible on their smart phones. This I think there used to be a bit of "it looks like people are texting or surfing the Internet!" but then I think after a little time we all realize "they are just that young adult age that does everything on their phones, but they are really looking up Bible verses." There is a high school girl who comes into adult Sunday School sometimes and she uses her phone, and we all see that she is just looking up Bible verses -- I think that has gone a long way in this area. She can also go to a thing where it lets her look up a Bible verse in multiple translations, and she has done this a few times, b/c sometimes it can help to make sense of a Bible verse that seems like it could have two different meanings. So anyway -- that is what I have seen. I do not think this high school girl has any sense that the print version of the Bible is "the real way." But our pastor has also talked about "is something lost when we have so many ideas for accessing the Bible, are we losing something by making it so easy and on-the-go?" But it is one of those things, we gain from it even if we may lose from it also. And we can make a point to read a print Bible, too. She ended up kind-of saying "if you are taking the Bible for granted by just searching for verses, and you are not really studying the Bible, then you should probably make a point to spend some time with a print Bible." But she also thought it was nice to have it be accessible in other ways.

They are more explicit, I think. They are very detailed in what they are doing. If you are seeing success with LOE, though, I think you have got something that is working! But if you see that there is a slow-down in progress or anything, I think it is time to go for something that is more intensive, not something that is less intensive. OPGTR is going to be less intensive as far as I know. I will just mention, there have been previous threads about how people re-sale their Barton levels and iirc re-sale value is often $50 less than the purchase price -- so even though you would have to pay a lot up front, at least you would be able to turn around and sale your levels later.

I would look for a book that has suggestions for things to do throughout the day. I don't know names but I have had a helpful hand-out for activities/suggestions when my oldest son was in speech, and I have seen books with suggestions at the library. I think games/activities are great, but looking at things throughout the day can be a way to get a lot of time in, too.

Wow, that is great!

I am going to a seminar on Saturday and one of the topics is "using visual supports to teach language." I will report back if I hear anything good :) I am really excited about going!

No, rhythmic movement is not the same as IM. As far as I know, IM is totally unavailable in my area. I have been to a seminar that was about RMT (rhythmic movement), PACE (the OT kind of PACE, I think there may be more than one program with this name), Brain Gym, and Bal-a-vis-x. At the seminar, Rhythmic Movement was described as the most basic/foundational of these program, and said it would not be appropriate for a lot of kids. But I think it was one where some of the things could be good for sensory reasons anyway. That is how I remember it right now, at least. Bal-a-vis-x (which is mega-popular here, b/c we are close to Wichita, and it has a really good reputation in our area, but no other similar programs are available locally.....) seems like it is the one that might be comparable to IM to me. But I am not sure, I just have my impression of IM. But the 4 I mentioned are the name-brand programs that are available in my area. (Though nobody I know of is "doing" any of them -- they make individual goals and pull in sections of the programs as they think it is appropriate to reach goals.) I live in a town with a population of 50,000 so I think we have some good options for our size.

They are not paying for all of that "out of pocket," though, if they are working at a place that pays for them to attend workshops and seminars. I mean, there is a mix. A masters degree is probably paid out-of-pocket. But a lot of trainings may be paid by the agency or the school district they are working for. It can depend on what the school district/agency will and won't pay for. Our school district (from my understanding) pays for a Bal-a-vis-x workshop for school personnel (from OT, from special ed, from PE teachers who will do adaptive PE, etc) every so often, so I don't think they are paying out of pocket. But Bal-a-vis-x is so popular here, and we are near Wichita, so it is not really representative for us. More what I am thinking of ----- there is a certain autism training that happens in our state. It is very, very pricey. But most of the people who go, are having it paid for by their employer -- an agency, or a school district. So it is expensive, but it is not like people are paying it out of their salary. They are also going to turn in their receipts to be re-imbursed. That depends on where they work and on the training -- I am just saying, it is not all out of pocket. There is a requirement for CEUs (continuing education units) too for some things -- and sometimes this is paid for by the agency. For our agency ---- they also pay for insurance, that I guess is pretty expensive (like liability insurance I guess). But those are reasons some people work for an agency or start at an agency, too. Though to be honest I don't know a lot about it! I just do not think it is always out of pocket. Edit: Not having to do billing or insurance (or hire it out) is another reason some people will work at an agency. I think this kind of thing goes into the prices different people are charging, too. Someone who is paying for office space and somebody to do billing for a small office, might charge more, and it might not be all about quality.