Have you considered dropping spelling altogether? It's just a thought. I had two use SW and it was a total waste of time - just busywork. Since then with my 6th grader (natural speller) and 4th grader (not a natural speller), we just correct as we go if needed. The more time passes I'm thinking I may never put my 1st grader in a spelling curriculum. Eta: they used SW in 2nd-3rd and 1st grades.

As a child/teenager, I was pretty talented in music. Not a prodigy or anything like that, but enough so that I never had to work at it. In high school I thought I was so disciplined because I went home every day, sat down at the piano, and played through my songs. Only in adulthood did I realize that wasn't discipline - discipline would have been putting in hard work on it daily, when it consisted of more effort than 'just sitting down and playing'.

Again, thank you, everyone, for your opinions. I've already decided what we will be doing. I have to wonder if people realize just how condescending some of the statements are. Was the desperation in my OP not evident enough? Did it seem like it was okay to 'kick me while I was down'? I highly doubt anyone loves criticism, and on a normal day I can handle it. But on a highly emotional day like yesterday, when I even admitted that I'd already been crying about it, some responses, while holding pieces of helpfulness, were still harsh. Maybe it wasn't intentional. Maybe no one realized that I really was sitting at the computer bawling my eyes out. I'm sure no one intended to make me feel like an idiot or like I was ruining my kid. At least I certainly hope not.

I voted, here is what I think: Scissors - two is good. Obviously it depends on the type of good scissors - I don't have 2 for cutting fabric but I do have 2 for cutting meat, so there is always at least one clean. Measuring cups - use these for everything, so 2 sets. Saucepan - 2 of each size except unusual ones, for the rare occasion that I need two the same size :) Travel coffee mugs - an absolute must. In case my favorite one isn't clean when I need it again. And then one more - dh's favorite. Throw blankets - one? Are you kidding? :lol: One per chair - yes. One per kid -yes. :D Charging cords - not intentionally originally, but I love having an extra. That way there are can be one in the car, or one staying at the computer. :)

I know. I think I've had overexposure the past few days with IRL friends and friction between 'right for me' stuff and what it means to different people. Iirc when I first saw the link to it on FB it was right under a discussion about such and the first line showed up and blended in (in my mind) with the other stuff.

We do the cycle in the grammar stage. All of the WTM recommendations, we've really liked. Trying to break from that cycle is what created the mess we're in now (science situation thread). I've got it figured out, what I'm doing, but in the future, I'll never deviate from making sure we are doing things the way I knew was better from the beginning. 5th and beyond, though, we do differently.

Thank you everyone!! I think that going forward, we will definitely drop the tests, at least in the traditional sense. I think I'll take the idea of doing it open book AND with me and run with it.

If Astro could spend the year doing nothing but Snap Circuits and other 'experiment kits', I think he'd be pleased. :lol: (which is what the general rule is for 1st-4th, and what I plan on doing with Pink)

nt

Did you see my eta? I expounded on my thought process. I think that catering to a kid can be done positively - I mean, we cater to all different things for all different reasons, and that isn't inherently bad.

I think my biggest obstacle here is understanding when it's catering to a kid negatively and when it's catering to a kid positively. I think that dropping tests would be a positive. ETA: to clarify, I think this is thinking leftover from PS that I didn't know I still had. I went to PS and loved it, hated the thought of HSing, couldn't figure out why anyone would ruin their child that way, etc, etc, and I *thought* I didn't have any of that thinking leftover. I'm wondering if this isn't that. I've seriously never, in the 5 years we've been homeschooling, had anything that actually made me feel like *I* really was ruining something for my child. I mean, yeah, he didn't like learning to read, and we tried about a million ways to do it while trying not to put any pressure on him until it clicked, but that never made me actually feel like I was doing something wrong. But this just feels wrong to me. I've literally been crying for like 30 minutes. And true, I do have a kidney stone today so I'm a little loopy on pain meds but yeah. I've never felt like a failure about any aspect of their schooling before. On the upside, I didn't know the textbook was written for 6th-8th, so it makes me feel not-too-bad about the few words he stumbles over in the book when we're reading aloud.

This never occurred to me as talking about science. But yeah, these things have come up forever. I guess I thought 'talking about science' had to literally mean talking about exactly what was gone over in the science book today/this week/whatever.

I just meant the science class. It was the best science class I ever had.

Astro doesn't get grades in the report card sense. I just grade his test because it seems like the thing to do - why take a test if you're not going to go over what they get wrong and give them a grade on it? So, no, I definitely wouldn't flunk him on anything. I'm just trying to decide if I should drop his tests or switch him to doing something else altogether. But I already explained about the rest of the grading for my 6th grader. That's non-negotiable. I'm pretty easy on his grades, just trying to, like I said, get him used to even being graded, since he never has been before. :D Do people really have conversations about science? When? We only talk about it while we're actually doing science lol, and then most of the time Link answers all the questions and Astro just listens. But we don't talk about science - or school subjects at all, for that matter - outside of when we're actually doing them.

I have no idea how to do this. We didn't do the library portion of science the way TWTM even said to - I just ended up buying a ton of books, kits, and the stuff they recommended. I have no knowledge of what interests him about science, and we hate the library... would we just get books and read them and that's it? Wouldn't that be sort of pointless? (I'm not trying to be difficult lol. I feel very stressed by this whole situation. The crying from the kid who doesn't cry sort of did me in lol) That said, we could always attempt the library. I just need to get there. It's like a quarter of a mile from our house but I never remember to return books so we owe them like $50 in late fees. I hate that place with a passion. Oh, and re: the copying definitions - I remember loving it in 11th grade. It was like the easiest science ever. :D Anatomy class was my favorite: either dissecting or definitions, every single day. :D (yeah, as a 15-16 year old I probably viewed definitions much differently than a 10 year old, not even taking the personality difference into account) :D

It's just that giving a grade I feel like I need tests, if they are offered, at least in some subjects. Language Arts - unnecessary. History - unnecessary. Pretty much everything else - unnecessary. But if they aren't taking a test in science, I don't know how to determine whether or not the material is sinking in. If I didn't have tests to help grade with (looking forward, not in 4th grade), what would I use? Just participation? Labs? Etc? As it is I'm not counting Link's test toward much of his grade (tests are 10% right now) compared to what it is in college. I know he's got several years, but I'm always thinking ahead to try to get them as prepared for the future as possible. Plus, Apologia is definitely what we'll be using for the upper levels and they have tests, and I really don't want to skip them. Like I said, I've never tested on anything else. The kids never take any tests in the grammar stage other than math, which they always do great on. That all said, I don't necessarily have a problem dropping the tests from Astro, other than just that then there'd be no way to know whether or not he's actually learned anything. Granted, I never bothered with it in the past years of the grammar stage, either, so... *shrug*

I wasn't going to post about this here because it's more 'education' related so I put it on the Gen Ed board, but it's slow and I'm needing advice lol. Astro is hating science. The thing is, the reason he's hating science is because he's failing his tests. He didn't say anything until now about it bothering him, but today when he got his test back (with an F), he cried. I don't know what I should do. He hasn't done any sort of science (or anything other than math, honestly) with any tests before. I've majorly simplified his tests to be maybe 10-12 questions, all multiple choice or T/F. Link has longer tests on the same material with short answer questions, etc. He hasn't done awesome on it, but he's getting progressively better. I know that at some point, science has to stop being 'just' the fun experiments and have more meat. So I don't know if this is a thing that I just need to toughen myself up or if my feelings on this are legit. I don't know if I should just not make him do tests anymore? Or switch his science altogether? Ugh. I just don't like this. I hate that at the age of 10, in 4th grade, he's claiming to hate something that he loved up until this point. ETA: Here's the thread on the GE board with more details about the whole science plan and what he's done thus far.

Here's a thread where some of us were discussing it: http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/580984-one-word-for-2016/ I *think* I know what my word is going to be, but it sounds so not-fun that I'm waiting just to make sure. :D

Yeah. I guess just referencing it rubs me the wrong way. Just do what you want (her, not you), the snide comment at the beginning is just unnecessary (again, not you).

Um, about the FB messages, she can see that you have read it. That said, since she can see it, I would just reply with what a PP said about being busy. I'd ignore the friend request, or if you feel too bad doing that, accept her and then hide her. If you feel she's someone who would continuously bug you, you can always block her. Then she won't be able to message you, won't see anything at all related to each other. You won't see her comments on other people's posts (mutual friends), etc.

Okay. Here's the deal: This may be kind of weird and not make much sense so I guess I'll start at the beginning. The first year I homeschooled, the boys were in 2nd grade and K. This is primarily about Astro, the younger one. In K, he did the regular WTM recommendations for 1st grade biology with Link. In 1st grade, we tried switching to Apologia Astronomy and hated it, so then ended up sort of skipping it. About halfway through the year - maybe even further - I decided to buy the stuff for the WTM science but we never really did it. In 2nd, I was still trying to do science with both boys together and they were going to do WTM chemistry - we did it for maybe the first 8 weeks and never got to it again, because it is impossible around here to do subjects together on a regular basis. In 3rd, I put Astro on his own in WTM chemistry and it went great. He loved it, he thought it was really fun, and it got done every week. For some reason, rather than moving onto WTM physics for 4th grade this year, I asked him what he wanted to do (I think because I was beginning to look into science programs in the upper levels, and had decided that the kids would start Apologia's upper level sciences in 7th grade, and I'd picked something else for 5th-6th grade) and he said he wanted to learn about our planet. Link wanted to learn astronomy (also the first time I'd asked, just filling in the year before he starts Apologia GS next year), so I thought 'oh, fine, I'll put them together for science one last time and do Astronomy and Earth Science. After looking into some different books, I decided to go with Prentice Hall's Science Explorer Earth Science series. There are 5 books - Inside Earth, Earth's Changing Surface, Earth's Waters, Weather and Climate, and Astronomy. We're a little over halfway through the 3rd book; we're doing well at getting it done daily. As far as doing it goes, we're getting it done. The problem lies in the tests. Astro has decided he hates science because this is totally different from anything he had done up to this point. Of course, I know that at some point science has to go from just the 'fun' experiments to learning more about things, taking notes, knowing definitions, etc, etc, but part of me hates that this has to happen for Astro now. We read a section of the chapter per day. We copy the definitions that go with that chapter. We do labs when we get to them. At the end of the chapter, we do a study guide and the next day they take a test. I've gone through the tests and gotten rid of some questions that I don't feel were accurately covered in the chapter, and I've taken even more out on Astro's test so his test is usually almost entirely multiple choice and true or false. He consistently fails them. He reads over the study guide a few times and he still has never pulled anything better than a D. So I don't know what I should do. He hadn't really expressed much about it before, but today after he got his grade back on his test (an F), he cried. I don't want him to be defeated. I don't want him to hate science at this stage because of this. What should I do? I could always not have him take the tests and only have Link do it, but that feels sort of weird to me - I hate to say unfair because I honestly don't believe that the world is fair and I don't have a problem with fairness, usually - after all, his test is already heavily edited to be simpler and shorter than Link's is. On the other hand, I only do the tests and grade them because I'm giving Link grades this year for practice for both of us (beginning in HS he'll have to have a transcript, and I want to get him used to being graded for a few years first, plus I want to get used to doing it). Neither kid has ever had tests (other than math) on a regular basis before this. Standardized yearly tests, yes, but this kind of test, no. I could always change him to another science entirely, though that would require finding something else and spending money for something that we'd only need for the next 17 weeks. Next year he'll be doing Galore Park science, and I think he'll like it better than this. I don't know exactly what grade level our science is written for, but I don't feel like it actually goes way over his head. I know that he doesn't have any sort of test anxiety because in general he's always tested better than my other kids have. Idk. I don't know what to do. I don't want to keep doing something to him that I feel isn't getting anywhere except making him feel down, you know?

ETA: Just thought I'd update everyone, my last post or so was a bit emotional, because even though I knew in my brain that people weren't intending to be mean, you know how it can be sometimes when you're already feeling down. :) Anyway, when I posted I had already pretty much decided to drop the tests. I don't give Astro grades on anything. I addressed it, briefly, in one of the other threads I posted, but just to cover all the bases: I never really expected him to do awesome on the tests. Not to say I had low expectations - I just really didn't see them as a measure of anything. We did them because they were in the book and because it gives him a chance to not always be overridden by Link knowing the answer. I didn't really have any expectations of science at all for the year - for me, it was sort of a free/gap year where we'd do what the kids were interested in, and they asked for our planet and astronomy. I got recommendations for such at their grade level and then researched online. I'm not displeased with the material - nor are they. So anyway, I wasn't interested in dropping the tests because *I* felt he was doing poorly or not good enough - it never crossed my mind to care about such one way or another. The thing that bothered me - that had me all emotional the other day - is because it bothered him. I didn't expect it to any more than getting answers wrong and redoing problems with a new math concept (which he does with no problem). So I was upset because I was blindsided by him caring about it so much. Granted, he was over it in like, one minute, when we started playing hangman for state capitals. :lol: But I wasn't over it that quickly because we've never had an instance where a kid seemed to feel like he was failing, at least not that kid (Pink considers fixing one thing to be a failure lol, but that's a maturity thing that we're working on :D ). It's not something we're putting on them. The tests were given in a very low stress, low priority way. As is much of what we do, school-wise. For science, I've never expected perfection or amazing performance in any way. It's something we do just to have the basic scientific ideas, to have fun, and whatever they can retain, they do. At the very least, I've already seen evidence in the years we've been doing it that even if there's something they don't remember, it's not unfamiliar when they see it elsewhere. It just gives them reference points. Grades have no place in our school until 6th grade (though I do check their work from the beginning, which I often refer to as grading though there is no grade given: I check it for accuracy, make sure they understand the concept, and work through it with them or remind them of something, and they fix it), at which point I started doing very loose grading so that the kid would get used to it. And again, those things weren't really a part of the discussion. I don't feel like telling a twelve year old that they get out of school what they put into it is unrealistic or above what he can handle. But again, the grading does not apply to the child I am talking about. And I said from the beginning that it wasn't something that I was planning on changing, because it literally has. nothing. to. do. with. him. Or the situation. All that said, I did drop the tests like I was originally planning. He likes to do work with me, so he and I will do the 10-12 questions as a worksheet or something together, and use the book if necessary, while Link does his test. The rest of the time, we're keeping pretty much everything the same. The definitions are fill-in-the-blank, mostly typed out with one to two words to fill in, because I've found that for both kids, they retain things better if it's something that's talked about orally and that they can guess an answer on. It's something we all kind of have fun doing. Anyway, just wanted to update on the decision I made and all that. :) Thanks again for everything. :) ORIGINAL: Okay. Here's the deal: This may be kind of weird and not make much sense so I guess I'll start at the beginning. The first year I homeschooled, the boys were in 2nd grade and K. This is primarily about Astro, the younger one. In K, he did the regular WTM recommendations for 1st grade biology with Link. In 1st grade, we tried switching to Apologia Astronomy and hated it, so then ended up sort of skipping it. About halfway through the year - maybe even further - I decided to buy the stuff for the WTM science but we never really did it. In 2nd, I was still trying to do science with both boys together and they were going to do WTM chemistry - we did it for maybe the first 8 weeks and never got to it again, because it is impossible around here to do subjects together on a regular basis. In 3rd, I put Astro on his own in WTM chemistry and it went great. He loved it, he thought it was really fun, and it got done every week. For some reason, rather than moving onto WTM physics for 4th grade this year, I asked him what he wanted to do (I think because I was beginning to look into science programs in the upper levels, and had decided that the kids would start Apologia's upper level sciences in 7th grade, and I'd picked something else for 5th-6th grade) and he said he wanted to learn about our planet. Link wanted to learn astronomy (also the first time I'd asked, just filling in the year before he starts Apologia GS next year), so I thought 'oh, fine, I'll put them together for science one last time and do Astronomy and Earth Science. After looking into some different books, I decided to go with Prentice Hall's Science Explorer Earth Science series. There are 5 books - Inside Earth, Earth's Changing Surface, Earth's Waters, Weather and Climate, and Astronomy. We're a little over halfway through the 3rd book; we're doing well at getting it done daily. As far as doing it goes, we're getting it done. The problem lies in the tests. Astro has decided he hates science because this is totally different from anything he had done up to this point. Of course, I know that at some point science has to go from just the 'fun' experiments to learning more about things, taking notes, knowing definitions, etc, etc, but part of me hates that this has to happen for Astro now. We read a section of the chapter per day. We copy the definitions that go with that chapter. We do labs when we get to them. At the end of the chapter, we do a study guide and the next day they take a test. I've gone through the tests and gotten rid of some questions that I don't feel were accurately covered in the chapter, and I've taken even more out on Astro's test so his test is usually almost entirely multiple choice and true or false. He consistently fails them. He reads over the study guide a few times and he still has never pulled anything better than a D. So I don't know what I should do. He hadn't really expressed much about it before, but today after he got his grade back on his test (an F), he cried. I don't want him to be defeated. I don't want him to hate science at this stage because of this. What should I do? I could always not have him take the tests and only have Link do it, but that feels sort of weird to me - I hate to say unfair because I honestly don't believe that the world is fair and I don't have a problem with fairness, usually - after all, his test is already heavily edited to be simpler and shorter than Link's is. On the other hand, I only do the tests and grade them because I'm giving Link grades this year for practice for both of us (beginning in HS he'll have to have a transcript, and I want to get him used to being graded for a few years first, plus I want to get used to doing it). Neither kid has ever had tests (other than math) on a regular basis before this. Standardized yearly tests, yes, but this kind of test, no. I could always change him to another science entirely, though that would require finding something else and spending money for something that we'd only need for the next 17 weeks. Next year he'll be doing Galore Park science, and I think he'll like it better than this. I don't know exactly what grade level our science is written for, but I don't feel like it actually goes way over his head. I know that he doesn't have any sort of test anxiety because in general he's always tested better than my other kids have. Idk. I don't know what to do. I don't want to keep doing something to him that I feel isn't getting anywhere except making him feel down, you know?

I would let him get it, and restrict afterwards. For example, no screen time until after everything else is done. In our house, we don't allow screens until after dinner, even if everything else is done. But that's just an example.

I saw the one linked that was a book a month (not the challies one, the modern mrs. darcy one) and I'm not gonna lie, when I read the first line I immediately didn't want to like it. People who don't see reading as a competitive sport? What does that even mean? It seems like a passive aggressive insult towards something. Idk. *shrug* Not a big deal, but I was kind of like :confused:

OP, makes sense to me. If you had never gotten said baked goods, wouldn't mean anything. If you had occasionally gotten said baked goods, wouldn't mean anything. But you've always gotten them, at least the way I read what you say, and so yes, what you're saying makes total sense. The public thank you is a little weird no matter what the situation. I've never seen 'shout outs' on FB unless they're literally something someone did for someone - 'shoutout to so and so for helping me fix my car today!' or some such. Not a gift thing. I don't see that sort of thing as being offensive to someone else on that person's friend list who knows how to fix cars. Etc. All that said, in regards to other things mentioned on the thread (not by the OP, I don't think), not all of those are something that matter to me. In the past, my kids have gotten a trampoline for Christmas from my grandparents. I didn't 'announce' it on FB, but in with the pictures of the kids opening gifts, yes, there was a picture of them seeing the trampoline, so it isn't like I hid the fact that they got it from them. I don't think that's a problem. I post pictures of my kids' birthday parties. If there was a child that my kids specifically didn't want to invite that they had in the past, I can't guarantee that I wouldn't still, because there are so many factors to it. For example, this year we had opposites on birthdays - Link had a huge party and invited a ton of people. They all came. We had like 50-100 people there including parents and siblings. Pink didn't have a party because her best friend moved and that was pretty much the only person she cared to invite. Astro had one and invited 3 people, 2 weren't able to come. Pictures of field trips, yep. I also post pictures sometimes with friends. Best friend and I getting rained out at a 5k. Best friend with her amazing sundae. The group of girls and I at the homeschool convention. But if those pictures offend people, that is really not my problem. Everyone has people they are close to. I can't imagine not understanding that.