Dd15 is having scrabled eggs on sprouted spelt toaast and a green smoothie. Ds14 is having two piece of white bread with butter, and a green smoothie. I have had my green smothie. After I have dropped my kids off at their camp, I will be having some of th raw berry pie I made last night :)

Thanks everyone. I love some of your ideas for responses to her! I dont know if I would have the guts to say them though :) This incident has made me realise how much I dont like conflict and would avoid it if possible. I feel more comortable withdrawing from her but if she wants to talk to me about it more- I will definitely say something. I won't sell out on it.

Well, if you or your kids wodl sitdown and eat a couple of handfuls of spinach for breakfast, go for it! Green smoothies were invented so that people would eat their greens, since most people dont. I am sitting here drinking one right now! 4 oranges, skin removed (not juiced so nothing is wasted), a handful of chopped frozen bananas, 2 handfuls of baby spinach, and a splash of water. Its very yummy and even my green smoothie reluctant son will druink this one. When it comes to juicing...I think its important to do both. Nothing can compare to the quantity of nutrition you will get in a juice, or the alkalyzigin quality of a vegetable juice. You probably wouldnt sit down and eat half a dozen sticks of celery and a few carrots in one sitting. I am wary of how much fruit I juice because of the concentration of it. But I do think its important for the body to also receive whole foods and to chew them. I just think its hard to do enough of that to get enough nutrition.

Lots of weak spots here. I wouldn't generalise to say all homeschoolers have them though- just that we tend to b a bit unbalanced. My kids are not doing much higher level sciences altough theyhave a good foudnation if they were to choose o go further. They are both only going for average maths. We did Latin for years and never got very far- but we alway did it for the sake of the doing of it, not to get anywhere, so thats ok. Iwanted to do a modern language but that just hasnt happened. So, its unbalanced, yet I think I have catered pretty well to my own kids, one of whom is arty/literary and heading toward journalism, and the other is fairly non academic and is constantly working on the basics because his brain is like a sieve. What I have noticed is that my kids are a little naive socially. Even though they are very social kids and have lots of friends, they havent had the same saturation with socialsing (which most of us would agree is a good thing) or exposure to the more negative side of teens, as schooled kids. Little things like dd15 trusting at a party recently that she could leave her handbag somewhere in the host's house, even though she only knew half the people there. Her mobile phone was stolen. She has also had a camera stolen at another event. And she gets quite let down when her friend in Venturers "let the team down" by phoning up the day before a big event where they are a team member and saying they cant come. She is not jaded by people the way other kids can be, and is qute trusting and enthusiastic, even though others are already quite "world weary". I suspect this sort of prolonged innocence is quite common in homeschooling circles. I agree music is difficult. My kids have both learned instruments and been in group music situations- but it cant compare to the fantastic choir Iwas in in the private school I went to, that specialised in music. I was just thinking how singing in that choir has had reprocussions all my life, and how much I lvoed it...and how neither of my kids have had that opportunity- or felt drawn to it. Not their destiny I guess. As for deadlines...my kids get a lot of gaps filled in by being in Scouts/Venturers. Dd15 is the vice chairman for our state of the Venturer organisation. She knows all about responsibilities and deadlines and being accountable. Also leadership. She stood up and have a talk in front of 100 kids her age, and it didnt phase her at all. And she has done online courses which have deadlines. So thats not really lacking for us. I think we need to trust that we simply cant give them everything but they are with us for a reason.

Thanks ladies...I didnt think I was way off, and neither did dh, but its good to check sometimes. I still tend to blame myself first and think I am in the wrong somehow, but I didnt think so once I thought about it. I agree its not deliberate nastiness...and she has been a good friend...but I think the $ signs are flashing in her eyes and suddenly our friendship took 2nd place to her greed. Reminds me of having friends who are into multi network marketing and phone you up all friendly only to try and sign you up! I am not ready to talk to her calmly yet. I know I will forgive, but I am not sure if the friendship could ever be quite the same again- I will be open to see how it unfolds . I feel like I just grew up a bit about how people can be and won't be quite as gullible again. I certainly have no intention on sharing the business strategies. I tried to tell her the market was saturated in the area. That didnt seem to phase her at all.

I prefer not to..but I perfectly understand why anyone would. I like to keep my room as clear as possible of stuff that wil activate my mind too much. I keep it as a clear and uncluttered space (well, ideally, and sometimes in reality). I, however, have recently aquired the luxury of a spare room that is solely for moi to keep my art and craft stuff and books in. So I have my own library, a mere few steps from my bedroom :) Seriously, I am forever trucking books out of my bedroom because they tend to gather there next to my bed in unsteady piles, because I am forever starting another book before I have finished the last few. I do have bookshelves in there..but I really like to keep all but a few books in another area.

I have never written a "would this upset you " thread, so here's a first. I have been setting up a business running women's discussion groups, and it is going well. It is part time and fits well with homeschooling and my past, talents and interests. This is a big deal for me. I have been looking for something to do within the structure of my life for a while. Dh, an experienced business person, is backing me with his advice and skills. A few days ago, I told one of my close, long term girlfriends about it. Today, we bumped in to each other at the supermarket, and she told me she was so inspired by what I had told her the other day that she and another mutual friend of ours have decided to do the same business, in the same area. And, she really wanted to catch up with me so I could tell her the business model I was using and all the ins and outs so that they could copy it. I was stunned, and the first thought that ran through my head was..."time to get some new friends". My heart hurt physically in my chest as I tried to make conversation after that. I wasn't together enough to tell her at the time that that really hurt my feelings, and no way would I share out business model with her as she was going into direct competition with us. So, I am scrabbling for some way to see this from a different perspective other than wanting to just move on from those long term and I thought, valuable friends! Dh says I am naive and they are suffering from envy. It's not that they are a serious threat to our business, since we have been going for a while now...but does a friend do that? I cant imagine doing that to them. It is also their area of interest...but recently I tried to pull together another womens group with them that was unpaid at first but very interesting, and neither could fnd the time so it fell apart. So I went in this direction..and now that it is successful they want to do it too, separately from me. No, I cant invite them in to my business because it involves a different circle of people. Ugh, I am quite disillusioned. Perhaps they will realise that it is not cool and apologise. Or perhaps I over reacting and that's normal or reasonable behaviour?

Yep. DH is vegetarian. We often eat some meat when he's not around!

My advice for my kids is to follow their passions because I think not enough people do that (but both of ther parents do so they have good role models!) Although many might disagree, the money usually comes when you are doing what you feel you were put here to do- which is what you really want to do. If you put the money first, by the time you are 30 or, worse, 40 or 50, and are married with kids, you no longer necessarily have the foundation to start from scratch in some other field. I'm not necessarily even talking about career- it could be travel or spirituality or living on a commune or . So many people live with regrets and "what ifs". And life is unpredictable. That being said- both my kids love money and what it buys them, and earn money and save well..so I am just providing a counterbalance to their personalities rather than encouraging them to be impractical. My kids both know also that I feel that love is the most important thng in the world. I don't lecture them about it but it comes out here and there.

-Gourmet raw food uncooking (as well as creative vegetarian cooking) -Organic gardening. I am passionate about compost :). I am one of those people who loves walking into places that smell of manure, and gets excited by it. Anything related to sustainable living comes in here too. -Reading a lot of non fiction on various subjects often related to my various hobbies, as well as spirituality from different perspectives. -knitting (and sometimes spinning and related fibre crafts) -last year it was sewing medieval costumes -painting sometimes - op shopping, but we as a family go to swap meet on Sunday mornings unless its raining heavily- not sure what you would call it over there- car boot yard? Lots of people selling stuff from their car boots, in the one big parking lot. - walking in nature and wildflower watching at the right season -birdwatching -not sure if yoga and chi kung count as hobbies! - playing with herbs and learning more about nutrition - flower and animal vibrational remedies - essential oils -I love rearranging furniture I follow my passions a lot and I have many. Homeschooling is one too, I guess- for years it was my major obsession but nowadays not so much.

Spot on. Well said.

I woudl also agree that writing is a general weakness, but I have heard SWB talk on how it can also be a weakness in homescholing communities. I havent had the experience to know. I do love SWB's approach to writing. I would only add to it that a creative approach can help fluency in even a very writing reluctant writer, and I have found that my dyslexic writer has benefited from writing which does draw on his imagination- we did free writing for a year or two- but, I also feel it is a very diferent inner process from the other types of writing he has done- copywork, dictation, narrations, outlining etc. The creative writing did give him a sense of "authorship" and pride in his writing which the other types fo writing didnt ive him. BUt I think both are important and teh school tend to focus on more creative writing. In Australia we just don't learn to write - the process is not pulled apart for us in schools- we are just expected to rise to the expectation after repeated creative exercises in younger years. For a natural writer- great, they will pick it up anyway- but even then, its hard to know what you did wrong when you get a low mark on your assignment. For a lot of people- they just never really know. I have learned so much from SWB and homeschooling.

I have disposable income for hobbies now, but I have lived on an extremely low income (before kids) and I still managed to have a hobby. I got into oil painting- I would buy one single tube every time I got my social security check. Sometimes I would find them 2nd hand or someone would buy me a beautiful colour. I painted on gyprock scraps I found discarded in bins on building sites. Turps was cheap- I reused the dirty turps over and over. But- it was my passion to paint so I made it happen. I couldn't aford to buy coffees or take away food, I bought all my clothes 2nd hand and I had very few clothes. Now that I have kids if I was that limited in my income I think I would not be spending that tiny amonunt of extra $ on myself- maybe- I dont know. I think its about having creative outlets, not what they actually are. You can be creative in lots of ways- I find it very creative to be frugal, and our income has dropped lately so I am having to go through and work out where we can cut back. Cooking can be creative. Gardening can be creative. Recycling can be creative. You can paint and draw with children's crayons and watercolours and be creative. But yes...scrapbooking is for those with disposable income, for sure, in the way that most people scrapbook, anyway. It would be quite possible to scrap book using leftover greeting, birthday and christmas cards, pictures from magazines, drawing and painting- and you would end up with a very unique end product. There will always be people with less, and people with more that ourselves, and it doesnt help to always be looking at the people with more. Make compost from your kitchen scraps and create a garden. The possibilities are endless. I think the word 'hobby' is a bit of a way of making something sound like an extra thats a luxury, which is I guess your point, but I think it's about following your passions and expressing creativity which can really be done at any level. For many people, like me when I was younger, money was scarce, but I was time rich (and stll am), and that is a luxury many with high incomes dont have.

:iagree: My kids are not like this- but I was! I didn't go and get further education till my mid twenties. I needed years to "find myself" before I was ready to commit to something.

:iagree::iagree::iagree: I would SO love to go to a Pink Floyd concert!

Hi Lucy- I think it's dfferent talking about teenagers in general, which include many different subcultures and many "worst case scenarios" and talking about one's own teens, whom one has nurtured up to this point in a very family centred and attention rich environment. I see my 15 year old as an emerging young woman, and I no longer treat her as a child- nor my 14yo son, although he is a later maturer. I do not restrict them lightly when they want to do something- they are very much learning to navigate their own lives. I dont find my kids need an "out", or that their process of maturing is leaving them feeling insecure or searching for identity in any way that makes me feel concerned that they may be in any kind of danger at the mall. Also, I did have a lot of idealistic ideas about how I would be with my teens that have changed now that they are here. That doesn't invalidate your opinion, though. :) I can also understand the not wanting to "stoke the fires of consumerism" but malls are here to stay, so my perspective is to allow my kids to come to terms wth consumerism in their own way, rater than protect them from places people buy things. I don't personally have a problem with my teens "wanting" stuff. Generally- what they see in the mall, just inspires them to look for it 2nd hand for a fraction of the cost. My kids are very consumer savvy and also good with money- from years of being in a family that finds 2nd hand bargain hunting a joyful past time. So that aspct doesnt concern me. I understand we all come from dfferent backgrounds and different ideals. Teenagers are very much people with their own opinions and are really no longer children in the sense that one can control them the way one controls younger kids. They need a lot of respect amd I feel they need our trust, too, that we can let them out of our sight and earshot, and they will actually be ok and behave reasonably.

Dd15 was born at 37 weeks on the day. It was a shock because I was told 1st babies are always late! She was fine. The labor was long- waters broke on the Saturdaynight, labour started Sunday night, she was born Tuesday morning. Dd14- expected him early, and he came 12 days before due date. Birth was a total of 90 minutes. I seem to cook 'em faster than average. Oops, congratulations! Glad it went well!

It depends if its actually worth it, for me. It was for many years because my kids needed to feel normal by socialising with other homeschoolers- and the coop situations we attended were fantastic for the time we did them. I always made sure we had 3 solid days (up till 2pm or so) at home and in particular tried to protect as many mornings as possible. Coop was only ever 1 day a week- but there were music lessons, art lessons, Latin classes...as much as possible I made all these in the afternoons so that we could get our schoowork done in the mornings. Alhough we did do music lesson at 8am for several years, which worked too. Going out of the house was always a juggling act as to what was worth attending and what wasnt- we have so many activities in my city we could have been out allday everyday if we chose. I burned out with to much out of the house, yet the kids thrived on it. FInally this year...no classes except dd15's piano and art classes on a couple of afternoons. And both do Scouts/Venturers on weekends. But we actually have 5 solid school days at home. Which is the first time ever.

Yes, but swinging to the other extreme- not allowing teens to socialise without family at all- is not healthy either. Just because greens are good for us doesn't mean if we only eat greens all day we will be healthy. Balance is always important. We homeschool. We know all about protecting our kids, and we know all about attaching more to family than to peers- but my perspective is that if I havent set a pretty good foundation by now (my kids are 14 and 15), I have missed the boat. Its time for them to venture out of the home and family base,and spend more time with their peers. It is a natural and healthy phenomenon. I want the kids to feel confident in themselves that they can handle our society's normal institutions (like malls and friends!) , and not be afraid of the Big Bad World that is out there ready to corrupt them. The truth is though, I live in Australia and maybe it just is that much safer here, and we dont have the same culture of fear that sounds prevalent over in the U.S.

I am a stepmum and my stepdd21 sometimes blames me for things. She andher dad had a very stormy relationship and it got down to the fact that while she was living with us, there was no peace in the house because she seemed to trigger her dad's anger several times a day. But me saying I couldnt live with it anymore made me the bad guy. Really, she is quite forgiving and sweet and is never rude to my face- but we dont see her a lot. I also have been in the opposite situation. Very soon after my parents separated when I was 13 years old, both my prents had new partners, and while both were kind to me, I never realyl accepted them. Recently my mum's partner of back then (they separated lter but remained friends) died and I sent my condolences and felt some regret that he and I never really reconciled. The rest of teh fmaily loved him, it was jst me who coldnt accept my mother being with another man (who was also an alcoholic). My dad is still with the woman he went to straight from my mother. None of the family like her a lot- she is very highly strung and over sensitive and openly cares about being with my dad for reasons of "status" (he has a PhD). The rest of us dont care about stuff ike that at all. She tries SO hard though,and sends presents and remembers everyone's birthdays, but thn gets VERY upset if we forget hers! She SO wants to be accepted, its a turn off- and this is 25 years later I would just be yourself, care if you genuinely do, but don't ovedo it too much. Its life, and mixed fmilies defnitely have their challenges.

Sure I would. I have no problem with my kid having dates or friends of the opposite sex at all- they have not been inappropriate. Sometimes they go out in groups, sometimes its just a couple of them. Its the mall, not a bedroom. Its not icky, overly sexual, or anything beyond two young people wanting to spend more time together. It feels normal and healthy to me that young people want to spend time together. We live in an upper middle class area and the mall is not a sleezy place to hang out. Sorry, i just find it strange that people don't let their teenagers "out" into pretty ordinary situations.

I like them lightly steamed (I just put a bit of water in the bottom of a saucepan and put them in and the lid, steam for a few minutes), then tossed in butter, a squeeze of lemon, some pepper and a dash of Braggs liquid aminos (or soy sauce).

I agree with Rosy that just getting the house in reasonable order can be a big help to clear your mind and settle a little. I find when I am distubed, that houswork helps order my outer environment so that I can feel more peaceful inside. Then again, so does a nap, quite often :) Sometimes its a question of working out your priorities. I found Flylady helps me with that on a personal level and that ended up spreading out to other areas of my life (flylady.net). Setting up routines for myself helps me think so much more clearly. I have also been itching to get work but not sure if I could handle it on top of homeschooling...yet my teens dont need me so much, dh's income has dropped lately (self employed)...its not a desperate situation but it seems practical to do something before it gets desperate, but I couldnt work out what to do. Then after this has been going on for months, I have helped start discussion groups for women with some friends that is acutally bringing me in a decent income and will only have me out of the house 2 evenings a week, plus a few hour during the week of phonecalls and paperwork. So...in other words, the perfect job came along. I didnt grab for something out of desperation. I would focus on getting the home in order first- and if you need to get out of the house- do it, as much as you need to. Go to thepark, book yourself an evening class, meet with friends- prioritise something that will give you what you need, and make it happen. Or do you still have small children? That can make it harder, but not undoable.

:lol::lol: My dh would definitely do something like that too!

Are you over 40 by any chance? I find my shape changing in my 40s. My waist is thicker- I put on a little weight but mostly it went to my booKs- I wasnt expecting that and it has taken me years to accept my new bra size- I was in denial for a long time :). Its one of the hardest part about getting older for me- accepting a changed figure, and letting go of the body I had when younger :)