I specfically avoided adding anything to SOTW (other than UILE and library books) because I was afraid that if I added another spine, we wouldn't have time to write about anything. AND we only do one SOTW "story" a day AND I often limit his narration to just one part of the story - I *do* think that if you choose to do written narrations once or twice a week, that you should guide him toward a specific paragraph-worthy topic. This was easier after we discussed topic sentences and how to develop a paragraph in R&S-4, but basically to start ask him a specific question that will serve as your topic sentence. Write the questions down for him, and then as he orally gives you the answers, make "notes" for him. This can then serve as his "rough draft", and if necessary you could schedule the "final copy" at another time. And, it will keep the narration to a reasonable length. (In 3rd grade, I just let him write about whatever struck his fancy, and when his hand got tired, I wrote for him. I changed tactics when the narrations went from 2-3 pages (skipping lines and writing big!) to 2 sentences.) hth a bit, Rhonda

nt

I used this idea with my 7th grader this week and it was VERY successful! http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14947

if you read the logic-stage suggestions, it asks for a one-page summary of the most important parts of the plot and a one or two sentence evaluation. There is also a thread on the high school board if you're really interested in using more of a "book report". I'll try to link in another post. Rhonda

I had never heard of this curriculum before Heather's post! I don't know why I didn't start my own thread asking about non-Reformed but Christian curriculum. :confused: Obviously, having just seen this, it's hard to know what to expect. So, I'd like to be able to test the waters a bit before jumping in. Thanks for listing so much to get me started! :)

baby-girl just woke up as I got to your message. So, let me check and see if I can find that book online before you search for it. It does sound like what I'm looking for! Thanks, and I'll let you know what I find....

This Year doesn't seem to have very many novels in it. Did you add some in? (It seems like a daunting amount of work w/o adding anything!) Also, is there a book (or a handful of books) you could recommend as an introduction? Or possibly a book that would explain Quine's views? Like Heather, I am wary of the Reformed POV of Omnibus, and even TOG. I've been trying to find a way to strengthen *me* so that I could still benefit from these curriculum without losing my way - I'm not even really sure what I would label "my way" - LOL. I haven't really been able to find anything in layman's terms that would help explain the different POV's. Sorry so many questions at once. Thanks! Rhonda

:001_smile:

nt

but, golly, it's hard to remember after 20 minutes in the car of "Oh, mom, I didn't understand ANY of the math." and "What is maroon? I think that's like a foreign language." "Yeah, I think my test was in Spanish." "Spanish? They did not give you a test in Spanish." "Oh, yes they did. It said ..... fiesta!" "It had the word fiesta in the question?" "Yeah, so I just quit reading it after that." :blink:

because when I tried the CAT here at home, I couldn't keep to the time limits nor could I ensure a quiet, uninterrupted time/place. (And, I'm sure I gave them too many "hints" :))

Thanks! These are much more manage-able than the other sites I've been to!

I am so discouraged! This was my dh's idea to make me feel "better" about what we do... On the bright side, at least we only have ****ONE MORE DAY UNTIL SPRING BREAK!!!!!**** :party:

because we got to a point where we could technically be "finished" with BJU-4 this year.... (and I hated the way BJU-4 taught long division!!!!) So, we've used R&S for two weeks now, and I *really* *really* do like the review in R&S so much better than in BJU. It is very, very similar to Abeka (which we left after 2nd grade because it seemed too fast) - both in the Oral Drills in the TM and in the Review Exercises. So, now my only problem is not over-doing the reviews! Also, I think for my "just the facts" younger ds, R&S would have been a better choice this year. It seems to stick more to the "grammar" of math. And, he much prefers the "plain-ness" of the presentation over BJU's worksheets. (For my more conceptual thinker, BJU was a really good fit.) So, I have both R&S and BJU 5 here for next year. I'll probably do R&S, and then, at the end of the year, pull out the stuff in BJU that isn't included in the R&S. I'd still like to do BJU Pre-Alegebra in 7th - it has been just excellent (w/my older ds this year).

I have to admit I've tho't my 13yo ds was just plain being stubborn. :blush: Nice to hear that he's just "not like me". This mama will learn to :chillpill: one day. Though I do like the separate answer sheet idea. Much thanks to all! Rhonda

Did you do many primary sources in logic stage? In re-reading the logic stage, I've been re-overwhelmed at exactly how much I've tweaked WTM to fit us - LOL! Still, I think we've done well for where we've started. My only nagging concern is the lack of primary sources. In WTM it seems that primary sources are the main way to teach the "why's" of history. (Though it seems my 7th grader is so much more attuned to questioning/reasoning through the why's than my 4th grader, even without them.) So, I'm trying to figure out a way to fit primary sources into our rhetoric plan. (I realize "Great Books" are a type of primary source, but I mean more speeches, journals, etc.) It seems I've heard that Spielvogel's Western Civ has primary sources included - is that correct? Do you think it would be enough? I guess I could use the websites listed in the logic stage section of WTM, but that hasn't been very successful this go 'round iykwim. If you know of a book I could use instead, that would be great. I'm much better when I can hold something in my hand. Thanks for your help! Rhonda

esp. if this is for your older daughter, I would have her outline (or take notes) on KHE, then let her choose a person or an event or a place she's like to know more about and go to the library and see what's there. If she chooses some of the upper-elem/middle-school-ish level books, she could probably do two, maybe three, books per week (though some weeks she might not find that many). I would also be sure to read some historical fiction - even if that meant some of the other reading didn't get done. And, I do also think she'd enjoy SOTW (I do!). hth, Rhonda

But as the main method for studying history, I'm still not too sure. I wonder if people combine these two skills somehow in history study. I guess I'm just looking for a pattern with one spine book to settle into instead of jumping around from one skill to another in an unorganized fashion. I'm thinking outlining SOTW should be done for only the non-fiction sections, too. Thanks so much for your time.:) I'm trying not to post, but yes, you are right in thinking that outlining is NOT the "main method" for studying history. Yes, we outline. (Yes, I still help my 7th grader ALOT!!!!) Yes, I will start my 5th grader next year with finding the topic sentence in each paragraph. (And, as a side note, the outlining has helped my 7th grader's writing. He reached a point in his last book report where he was able to take a point supporting his third paragraph, and move it to the end of his second paragraph and use it as a wonderful transition (after much prompting from me, but, ya know, we're gettin' there!).) BUT, BUT, BUT - outlining is maybe a 10- *maybe* 20 minute assignment out of a whole week's worth of history! It's a great over-view, and sprinkles names and places and events into their minds, and helps them enjoy the stories since they already have a sense of what's coming. But, it's only *one* small piece of the puzzle. Please don't forget the map work, looking through the Atlas (one day maybe we'll actually READ the atlas instead of just looking at the pictures - LOL!), and the Timeline. ALL those things help place these little, disconnected pieces of information into a bigger picture, and eventually they begin to see the inter-connectedness of all these people and events. And, we use SOTW for our "extra" reading. I wish I had the temperament - or the whatever-it-is-I don't-seem-to-have - to do the research it seems like WTM advocates. Like today, studying Jose de San Martin and how he marched his troops across the Andes mountains, my 10yo ds asked if he carried the "leaky cargo ships" mentioned in SOTW all the way across the mountains to Chili, and why didn't he just set sail from Argentina and sail around the Cape instead? I mean, THAT's how we *ought* to be learning history - by going and finding the answers to those types of questions. I *think* (don't know) that would be so empowering for a child, and if I could figure out how to do THAT, well....hmmm.....I may not drop outlining, BUT I'd be *forever* grateful to the person who could teach me that!!!! :D I do also do a lot of historical fiction as Read Alouds (ala Sonlight), and this has been invaluable as well in making history really come alive! So, as the book says, "Don't sweat the small stuff!" I know that's easy to say and not so easy to do. You want to know exactly what to do each week (esp. w/o reading every book published before deciding!), and I do appreciate that. There's just so many variations, so many ways to do it, and no one way is right. Probably every week you'll do something different. For 5th grade, you could even go with the Usborne Internet-Linked Encyclopedia and pick out the main idea of each blurb if you wanted. I do think I wouldn't bother outlining myths, etc. since you will have quite a bit of overlap with your literature and SOTW there anyway. Do hope you find something that gives you peace! I'm still stewing about next year, too! :grouphug: Rhonda PS - And, Yes, I *started* this post *before* SWB posted, so feel free to ignore it!!!!! (Oh, my, now I think we're not outlining nearly enough!) and, PSS - And, don't forget primary sources, like I always do! OH, sometimes I find them in advance and print them out and everything... but they hardly ever get done. (sigh!)

:glare: Boy, I sure wish I had found your Rod & Staff schedules last summer! Thankfully, one dc is ahead, and the other is still in the running to finish just on time for summer break. I really admire all you blogger-moms! *Thank you* for taking the time to post all your schedules!

Seriously.... The first year, or rather half year, each dc had ABeka at first. Then, we just started checking out earth-science related library books and reading them together. (probably should have stuck with that) The next year, we tried combining the boys with a Life Science unit study. This was a complete disaster, and lasted only 3 weeks. After that my older son did Prentice Hall Life Science, and younger ds did a very old science book. Prentice Hall Life Science was good, but very (*very*) challenging, and required me reading it out loud, then re-explaining things, and helping him fill out the workbook or draw a diagram. I supplemented with a book called "It Couldn't Just Happen", and that was adequate to help explain the differences between evolutionists and creationists. I planned to continue with Prentice Hall Earth Science in 7th grade, but every time I sat down to plan it, I just felt sick (science is *so* not my strong suit, anyway!). I even had the Teacher's Edition, and from their own plan (giving the number of class periods for each chapter), it was obvious that you had to pick and choose what to do. And, I knew from the fact that there was SO much undone from the Life Science book, that there was no way we would ever finish. And, frankly, I just didn't know WHAT to do. I really wanted someone to come and plan it all out for me, so I wouldn't feel so guilty about skipping something. I probably would have gone with Rainbow Science because of all the bad press Apologia gets, but I had already bought Apologia General the year before for a look-see. So, it was here, and we were in the middle of a budget crunch, and - viola - I even had the SL lesson plans, so suddenly, science was done and the world seemed like a much happier place again! I have been pleasantly surprised with the Apologia. Obviously, being a young-earth creationist, it's hard to review it objectively. But, Wile does point out some of the problems with the young-earth creationist viewpoint - just as he does about evolution. And, the On Your Own questions do give the student just as much "Critical Thinking" practice (if not more) than the Critical Thinking questions in the Prentice Hall text. Ok - editing here after reading ahead in the human body sections - yeah, there are a few paragraphs where evolutionists would probably get offended. I don't personally find it any more extreme than me, as a creationist, having to "mentally dump" parts of a text that pre-supposes evolution; but, being familiar with that feeling, I know it to be uncomfortable at best. One more note: I have found that I must discuss the readings with my dc every day. We usually do the On Your Own questions together, and I have him explain the reasons for his answers. And, I even go through the Study Guide and drill the questions every few days so that it doesn't hit him like a ton of bricks. He can read the information on his own, but he's still developing true "study" skills, iykwim. Sorry so long! Rhonda

and I am not a "Math" mom! Very easy to teach. There are review questions in the TM for every lesson. There are quizzes every 3 lessons or so. There are 3 different Lesson plans, to give you an idea which/how many problems to assign for each lesson. And there's even a "year plan" suggesting how many class sessions to take for each chapter. (This has been very helpful for keeping us on track!) We normally just read through the lesson together, then quickly (orally) go over the Skill Check (class practice problems). It is very well laid out, and on occasion, my ds has been able to read and complete the lesson himself.

nt

I have "perfect" parents. They've never made a wrong decision. They've never disagreed. (I have honestly never heard them raise their voices ever.) They've never wasted money, or been taken in by a scam. They've never shared any of their "real" lives with me. (OH, my, is it any wonder that I - who obviously inherited my grandparents' rather Bohemian-esque genes - must psyche myself out for two days before every visit, or risk being in tears for two days afterwards? Any wonder I have always felt I must hide my real self from them?) BTW - I know from other family members that both my parents grew up in alcoholic households w/blatant adultery issues, so obviously they took great care in "protecting" me. Yet, I felt (feel) very "unled" growing up, if that makes sense. On the complete opposite end of the spectrum, there's my dh's parents (now divorced), who were (are?) *so* very dysfunctional - exposing their kids to stuff they should never have been exposed to. Who still lie and distort everything to suit their own purposes. But, whose children could tell them ANYTHING (and I mean, ANYTHING), and know they would still be loved and accepted. So, we in our parenting are trying to reach some magical balance - striving to show them our true inner selves and our struggles, trying to show them unconditional acceptance, and yet guiding and protecting them rather than forcing them to fend for themselves along the way. In a word, we are trying to be transparent. It is very humbling to be completely honest with my kids, and I'm not certain that will bring them to a place of self-confidence and resilience. Your post was so very encouraging. Your parents sound as if they were truly transparent, and I thank you for sharing such personal thoughts here. Rhondabee

Spelling: Rod & Staff 8 Math: Jacob's Algebra Grammar/Writing: Rod & Staff 8 Latin: Henle 1 (not sure how fast this will go) Science: Apologia Physical most likely - I'm sure he will "sit in" on his younger brother's experiments, too. (I would really like to try Science per WTM, but frankly I'm too scared knowing I've failed that twice!) Introductory Logic w/DVD's History: KIHW/SOTW4 -hopefully we'll get to the Geography coloring book =) Literature: List in WTM for 8th grade - plan on using Reading Strands to cover "Lit Analysis" a bit more formally I would like to add in Rosetta Stone Spanish, but I'm not sure how much time Introductory Logic is going to take. (We do the Dandylion Logic books now, but that seems very light in comparison!)

it sounds like your dd is reading out loud, whereas my 4th grader (and last year, 3rd grader) reads his literature selections silently (or, well, as silently as that child can do anything - :lol:) So, yes, I do have him narrate orally (Or answer questions) while he's reading. Then, once the book is finished, we discuss it, try to pinpoint the most important event, and talk about how the characters changed. Then, he writes a narration (his narrations are always longer than what I would require, so this isn't really a chore for him). Sometimes he does the whole book, sometimes just his favorite part.