Or take him to storytime at the library. Or do you have one of those places that have a bazillion bouncy houses and you pay to play for an hour or two? Or take him to McDonalds and let him play in the PlayPlace. You can make it work!

I used to be heavily into paper scrapbooking--on design teams and all that--and part of the problem is how fast product comes and goes in the scrapbooking world. Companies introduce new lines every 6 months or less...and since everything is cheap (paper is <$1/sheet, embellishments are <$5, etc.) it's easy to drop $50 on the "latest and greatest" without thinking. There are new design trends and new ways of losing supplies all the time. There's the cult of personality aspect too. It may have mellowed in the last 3 or so years, but when I was into it there was always the sense of not being able to keep up....and for social scrapbookers it was worse. That said, I went from scrapping daily to monthly, and now it's been at least 6 months...and I still refuse to let go of my stash...:blush:

I've met a couple recent (<5 years) graduates and one teen who have expressed a negative opinion about homeschooling. For two of them (brothers), they said they would have liked it better if they'd had more social outlets--homeschool co-ops, etc. Knowing their family, I know they had plenty of social opportunities, I think they are just very social people. They started ps in jr high & high school respectively. The other one started ps as a sophomore and said that he really struggled to adjust academically, mainly that test-taking was difficult for him. He also mentioned the crowd of kids he hung out with being a factor. Halfway through the year he got in with a new group of friends and his grades improved. But I also know many adults who were homeschooled and are committed to homeschooling their kids...as well as many adults who weren't homeschooled but want to homeschool. Maybe her tone will change once she realizes she can sleep in until 9 and still be done with her schoolwork before her friends get home and start on their homework. :001_smile:

***SPOILER*** RE: the books (I haven't seen all of the movies): In the first chapter of book 4, Voldemort kills an innocent man whose house he is using as a hideout. Up until that point, things had been fairly light. I told my DD10 (after reading the book in its entirety) that if this chapter was too much for her, she should stop the series until she's older. She was ok with it and hasn't been bothered by anything else she's read. I think that chapter is a good litmus test--if you feel that your kids can handle that level of involvement with Voldemort and the things he does, they're probably fine with the rest of the series. Book 7 is like that all the way through, and it would be hard to get through book 6 and not read book 7.

I had a lovely camping trip with a friend and her 4 kids (ages 6-13) a couple weeks ago. We are both very easygoing, I think that helped a lot. If everyone involved can be flexible, there are a lot of benefits for vacationing with friends. You might talk up front about what your expectations are--meal sharing, activities (whether you'll want to plan stuff to do, hang out by the pool all day, etc.), whether anyone has health issues or behavior issues that will effect the group, stuff like that. If you think you will need some time with just your family, let her know in advance so she knows it's nothing personal. We had a terrific time on our trip. The kids get along really well and needed very little entertainment or discipline because they were having such a good time together. We took our time waking up, talking, drinking coffee, etc., and the kids entertained themselves until we were ready to head to the beach. There were times when we had different ideas about safety, etc., we just naturally went with whoever was more restrictive. Her daughter needed some alone time at one point, and that was fine, my friend made it clear that it was nothing personal and the daughter was just having a rough morning. I took a nap when I needed one. She took a nap when she needed one. I love my husband and I love vacationing with him, but it was nice to be able to do things differently. We've already decided to make sure it happens again next year.

As someone who has taught Sunday School for years and is currently preparing to teach the Bible lesson at VBS, this is exactly what I do, minus the prayer time and call to conversion. However, I certainly wouldn't discourage a child who wanted to respond to a gospel presentation, I would make sure to involve the parents as much as possible. I send my kids to Sunday School and VBS hoping for God to work through the teachers to reach my kids...we spend a lot of time talking about and studying the Bible, but a different teacher with a different perspective might be able to reach my kids differently than I can and do. I would certainly not send my kids to VBS if I didn't want another adult interfering in my kids' spiritual lives. Churches don't spend all that time and money to be entertaining--they want to reach kids with the love of God. Different churches will approach this differently, but that is the goal of VBS. Some churches will avoid the issue of sin, some will hit it head-on. Personally I don't know how to tell someone they need God's love without addressing their sinful nature. Why do I need God's love if I'm not a sinner? Many people who don't know God do very well in this life. I do think most calls to conversion don't necessarily indicate a genuine conversion and I will never give someone assurance of salvation because they "prayed the prayer", but I do believe that a young child can experience a genuine conversion and I also believe that a teen or an adult might remember something that they heard as a child and have it "take root" years later. My thought is that children are covered up to a certain point, and I don't know when that point is. I've heard up to 20, but since I don't know, and since my kids (Lord willing) will live to adulthood, I want them to have a full and complete understanding of God's Word. I definitely take a gentler approach with my gospel presentations when they're young, but we do talk about the fact that sin and repentance. I guess you could say I take somewhat of a trivium approach...in 1st-4th grades and younger, it's all about the stories. After that, we spend progressively more time applying logic and reason, addressing doctrinal issues, etc. I think what your 7 year old expressed is exactly what I would want to hear from a child that age, and I would be encouraging him like crazy that he is learning and accepting truth from God's Word. We teach a child they're corrupted because they are corrupted. You've never seen a child throw a fit simply because they didn't get what they wanted? Your kids naturally have a desire to eat healthy food, do extra schoolwork and brush their teeth without being reminded? Children are beautiful and wonderful, but they are not perfect, and their sin is what separates them from God. While I believe that God covers their sin until a certain point of maturity, I don't feel that I am doing my kids any favors by teaching them that the bad things they do ultimately do not come from within them. My kids know beyond a shadow of a doubt that their lives have meaning and hope because of what Jesus Christ did for them, they know that God accepts them even when they do bad things, even though He doesn't have to, and they know that even though their sin has separated them from God, there is Someone who loves them so much, even more than Mommy and Daddy, that they can be forgiven and not live with the belief that they are "bad people".

I guess there is the fundamental issue--is effort and time spent in training enough, or is there a skill level necessary? I am just a karate mom (not a member of the dojo), but I would guess that our dojo probably wouldn't advance him beyond a certain point simply because he doesn't have the skills necessary for the next level. It doesn't mean we won't work with him, that he can't compete in tournaments, or that he isn't a valuable member of the dojo. If he had enough strength in his kicks they might be able to overlook the height issue...but my guess is he wouldn't. I think it parallels the youth issue--a kid who works hard but lacks the ability to do certain stances and kicks would not move up. A kid who has natural ability but no focus or a bad attitude also would not move up. A black belt isn't meant to be easily achieved--it is not for everyone.

ahahahah isn't phonetically correct, unless you start your laughs with the /a/ sound. I've seen it and it drives me crazy. I always think of the Count from Sesame Street when I see it.

Today is our first day of my 5th year if you don't count preschool and kindergarten, 7th year if you do.

I think in most activities, the monthly fee covers the instruction costs and the extra fees are for anything above and beyond. In karate in particular, a good dojo is not on a specific timetable for promotion--they will promote when a student has learned the necessary skills for that belt. In a school that works that way, including the promotion costs in with the monthly fees would mean that a student who promotes less often is paying for a student who promotes more often. Just like in dance class there are some kids who can't be in the recital, those kids shouldn't have to pay for the kids who do perform. I do object to a dojo that says "$6000 to get your black belt" or something like that, where you're basically guaranteed a black belt after a certain amount of $$ and/or training. Some students will not be ready for a black belt after $6000 worth of training. Also, in our school, getting a black belt earns you the "sensei" title, so skill alone is not the only thing considered. They also look at how often you compete in tournaments and how well you do, how you conduct yourself in the dojo, how you treat the lower belts, how you respond to correction, etc. A good dojo should be able to tell you up front all the costs involved with promotions--no one should be surprised at a $350 belt test. That said, I don't think such costs are necessarily wrong.

Exactly. This approach shows no respect for the discipline of karate (or TKD or whatever martial art one is studying). While I recognize that a black belt is only the beginning of true study of the discipline, there is a level of mastery that should accompany the black belt that a lot of schools are completely missing.

That's how it is in DD's dojo. To my knowledge we've only had one jr. black belt as far back as anyone can remember. That kid just earned his belt about 3 weeks ago. He won the USA-NKF Nationals for the last two years for his division and will likely go on to the world karate tournament in Malaysia this year. He is an amazing, dedicated athlete and has worked incredibly hard. We do not award black belts for less than that in our jr students. In our dojo, a black belt is a sign of leadership, responsibility, and maturity, as well as a sign that someone has impeccable form, has mastered the black belt katas and all the ones before and a certain skill level in tournament fighting. A dedicated adult will take a minimum of 4 years to reach that point, and for kids it is a minimum of 7. At tournaments, we see kids with advanced belts who simply aren't very good. The only thing I can think of is that there are different requirements for advancement in different dojos, and that some aren't looking at skill or form, but perhaps time or $$ spent in training. It makes me really grateful for our program.

Yes. My kids are obviously younger, but my in-laws have been through this with my SIL off and on for about 20 years. She has left and come back more times than we can count, they've furnished homes for her that she has walked away from, she has lost custody of children...it has been devastating. I don't know if my MIL and FIL could have done anything that would have helped, but they've never been on the same page, and it has always been an issue for them. Drawing a firm boundary that you can both agree on won't "save" your DSS, but it will relieve you from rescuing him and will protect your family....and maybe allow him to experience the consequences of his actions so he can make the necessary changes.

It sounds like you have a good plan as far as the June 30th ultimatum...I might remind him of this and ask him if he needs any help, as the 30th is looming. I would probably come up with a solid exit strategy before that date to present to him (which day he has to be out, what he can take with him, what support he will receive before and after, if any)--it could be that once he knows you're serious, he'll reconsider and get his life together. It could also be, though, that he thinks the grass is greener on his friend's couch. Sometimes people have to learn the hard way. One thing is for certain--he isn't learning now, and something needs to change, for his sake as much as yours. I hope to never be in this position myself...I do not envy you. :( Just don't be afraid to make the hard choices--more than anything, he needs you & your DH to be his parents.

Not to be Nancy Negative here, but is it possible that grades will be a) more trouble than they're worth, and b) discouraging if she doesn't get high/perfect scores on everything? I resist giving my kids any sort of letter grade or even make an issue of percentages, with the exception of DD10, who needs to get 80% or better on math assignments to avoid having to redo problems. If I did need to give an elementary school-aged child a grade, I would make each test count as 3 assignments. Many of my middle school teachers did it that way, and it emphasized completion and mastery of homework assignments. Since you are working directly with her, you'll know if she's retaining what she learns from her homework, so the tests aren't terribly meaningful anyway, other than as a skill to practice. :auto:

Every co-op has different rules re: parent involvement. I teach 3 classes a semester, but many of our members don't teach at all, and volunteer minimally outside of co-op days. I would find out what the rules are. Also, would you be able to get any school done before you go, or maybe do a half day on Monday evenings? Then you could do school on the Fridays your DH is at work. I guess it depends on whether it's worth making the sacrifices...you could join for a year (or half a year if that's allowed) and see how it goes. I also strongly recommend going on a class day and observing...you may find that it's not academic enough to meet your needs (or too academic), or the teachers seem disorganized or the students aren't participating or everyone's wearing a headcovering and a denim jumper (just kidding :) ). Better to find out if it's a good fit before you commit yourself.

Those are my kids' favorite too. They also love Kirby's Epic Yarn. By conservative, do you mean that you don't want any fighting? magic? scantily-clad women?

We are in one that we love. It is my kids' favorite thing that we do all week. Ours is for enrichment--classes are somewhat academic, but mostly not core classes at the elementary level. All their best friends are there and many of mine. Ours is socially beneficial (very much so), academically I would say it is neutral. We do science there and will be doing writing next year as well, but giving up a day of the week is hard. It means we have to fit all our schooling into 4 days. So they learn quite a bit at co-op, but it takes away from a day of learning at home (or having a relaxed day to get things done). However, we'll go as long as we can because we love it so much. DD10 is doing a study hall period next semester (her choice), and as her school work becomes more challenging I may require that, or switch to half-days. Can you fit the rest of your schooling into 4 days? Actually, if you have responsibilities at the co-op, it will be more like 3 1/2, because you'll spend part of the day before preparing for co-op day, making sure the kids have their homework done (if any), etc.

I answered yes because we are schooling year-round. We basically do our full load, but we don't have co-op, which frees up a lot of time. Also, our plan is to do a 36 week school year, which means 16 weeks off a year, and proportionally we use more of them in the summer than the rest of the year.

This is what mine is like, except we're a little bigger. For the 12+ year old students, there are a fair amount of academic classes, as well as enrichment classes--writing, science and foreign language are pretty consistently offered. For elementary-aged kids, there are a few core subjects taught in such a way that it could replace what you're doing at home, but more are unit-studies or enrichment classes that are still somewhat academic. My kids take science at co-op, which really helps. I think if you were to hire a teacher/tutor, it could get expensive fast. Between facility fees, insurance and class fees, ours would cost upwards of $100 per kid per semester, but teachers collect honoraria, and since I teach that pays for me to be there. I have taught a wide variety of subjects from preschool to high school (but have finally found my niche, I think!). We also do parties, field trips, mom's nights out and other social events. Sometimes giving up a day each week, plus prep time, is a burden...but it's my kids' favorite thing we do, and all their closest friends are at co-op, so we'll make it work as long as we can. :)

To me, a clean house is one where most everything is put away, dishes are clean or in the dishwasher, laundry is done or a few items are in the hamper (hampers are not overflowing), bookcases, shelves, desks/tables and other storage areas are tidy, and there may be a few papers out (bills or mail that needs to be answered), but only ones that will be answered soon. In my house, the kitchen get thoroughly cleaned 2-3 times a week, there are a piles, there are stray items in the living room, the end table by my living room is piled with school books and a crochet project or two, laundry hampers are often overflowing, sometimes there's something sticky on the dining table and too-old food in the fridge, bookcases are disheveled...you get the idea. The kids' rooms are often trashed, even though they have to clean them at least 3-4 times a week. It's usually manageable and most of the time it's not so bad that if someone dropped in unexpectedly, I wouldn't be embarrassed. I try to do a good thorough cleaning on Saturday mornings. I guess the only reason I think about it at all is because it bugs my husband. I'm much better than I used to be because of him, but lately we've had many talks about how homeschooling takes precedence over cleaning and that I might not get to everything every day.

I always assumed that my kids would be ahead of the public schools, just because they're homeschooled. Then my son came of age. His test scores are very low, and he does what is required of him with as little effort as possible, so his retention is low. That combined with the fact that he won't take the time to read the question and answers and then choose the best answer on a standardized test means that on paper he is nowhere near where he "should" be. So what are my options. Teaching him for longer than the 2.5-3 hours we're already doing school isn't my best option--he has already checked out. Getting a tutor doesn't address the problem. Lecturing him about the importance of education won't do any good. Taking any sort of punitive approach will just make him dread school. Right now he actually sort of likes it, he just isn't very good at it. :P Since I know my son, I know that he will passionately pursue the things that interest him, so the approach I take is to continue to work with him in all of the core subject areas, nudging him forward enough to challenge him without discouraging him. Besides that, he has lots of time to dream and think and look at books. I trust that someday he'll be self-motivated, and then he won't be starting from ground zero but he also won't feel like learning is too hard or not fun. Why am I sharing all of this? It is account of one child who is not meeting public school standards, whose mom isn't pushing him to do so or concerned about getting him caught up. If I was less secure I might be posting questions like "Is it ok for my 4th grader to use WWE2?" or "Please tell me that someday I won't have to review basic addition and subtraction with my 9 year old"...and many people would decide that I'm too lax or lazy or unfit to homeschool or whatever. I'm confident that I'm doing right by my son and that he wouldn't be better off elsewhere, but not everyone is...and some people might turn their back on educating their kids because of the judgments of others. Yes, I know the original thread was about people who simply put zero effort into teaching their kids...but how do I determine whether another family is putting in sufficient effort? FYI, he has two sisters who are substantially ahead of grade level and one who learns very differently.

I've had that thought myself. Totally. When you're that rigid in your approach, you're setting yourself up for failure. It is important to assess whether we're meeting our goals, but it is also important to have realistic expectations and learn to tweak them when necessary.

I agree with you. I do think there's a difference between using the freedoms of homeschooling to achieve what's best for one's child, and using them to slack off. However, that is for the parent to determine, and there are many different approaches to education among good parents. My biggest beef with that other thread was its faulty premise: "Frustrated with HS community enabling itself to lower standards..." The HS community doesn't enable me to do anything, including teaching my kids in a certain way. The whole point of homeschooling is that I choose how I educate my kids, not the schools, not the gov't, not another parent or group of parents. That doesn't mean I think all homeschooling parents are doing right by their kids, just that it's none of my business. Personally, I have one kid who is substantially behind the state standards. Panicking and insisting that he/she catch up, adding hours to our school schedule, etc. won't help this child. Being patient and finding strategies that are effective in teaching him/her will. I understand the concern that some negligent parents are going to give HSing a bad name and ruin my kids' chances of getting into their preferred college...buy I would respond by saying that I need to find ways of making sure my child is a good candidate. I'm not sure there has ever been a time where I could have put "homeschool" on a college app and immediately have the entire Ivy League clamoring for the privilege of educating my child. Part of my job as a HS mom is teaching my kids how to showcase their academic achievements and other strengths in a way that will enable to them to reach their goals.

My advice (for what it's worth--my kids have all been semi-classically homeschooled from day 1) would be to take a remedial approach and get curricula that are meant for younger grades, but would give her a solid foundation and get her caught up. I would get Analytical Grammar and do the 1 year approach. That should get her caught up on grammar. For writing, you might try Writing With Ease 4--it would be young for her, but it would hit some of the gaps. IEW might also be a good option. And then maybe get her reading some of the easier classics and make sure she's fully understanding them--if you are doing the 4 year history cycle, I would probably go by whatever TWTM recommends for logic stage for that era of history.