If you think college is generally unnecessary and over-rated: are you homeschooling primarily for non-academic reasons? There are a number of vocal people here who don’t think college degrees are worthwhile for their own kids—who wish they could get by with just a vocational school, or are only willing to support tuition at the cheapest place possible, and only if their children choose majors X or Y. At the same time, most people here are willing to give up 13+ years of one parent’s wages to homeschool. People spend countless hours looking for the best way to teach algebra, Latin, Greek, American history, literary analysis, etc. It seems like classical homeschoolers on the whole value K-12 education so highly, I'm surprised to see so many people who feel that college for those same children will be ONLY about getting a piece of paper posting on the same board. Are these two *different* groups of people posting? Or are there people who believe academics for a 12yo is important enough to invest in homeschooling full time, but a four-year liberal arts degree for an 18yo is a pointless luxury they’re unwilling to support? If that's you, why do you feel that way? (Please don’t read this as confrontational—this isn’t a combination of views I’ve encountered in real life, so I’m hoping people don't mind sharing their reasons.)

Homeschooling is NOT free though, if you count the wages the teaching parent is giving up over 13+ years. The two-program situation you describe is very, very common in community colleges where I live. I am not sure many 4-year colleges would go for it, though. Why should they, when plenty of vocational programs exist elsewhere? It's the fact that many employers look for a Bachelor's degree when their employees don't actually need one that's the problem, I think.

That makes sense-- I got lucky in my major I guess. After my first year, I never had a class in my major with more than 20 students, and I got to know my professors really well through research projects, movie nights, fieldwork, and all kinds of other opportunities that seemed to be everywhere there. I had those stereotypical late-night philosophical discussions people say don't really happen in college on a pretty regular basis with my friends and dorm-mates. Compared to the places I've been since, the other undergrads around me were so interested and so driven they seem like another species, and the education undergrads receive in the state U and community college where I teach is very different for that reason. If I'm guessing the crimson correctly, unfortunately they are notorious for treating "underlings" of various stripes poorly in my field, too-- the expression "brain drain" comes to mind. On the other hand, it gives a darned impressive piece of paper!

:iagree:This has been my experience as well. I'm especially interested in this conversation as Crimson Wife and I went to the same undergrad university. For me, it was life-changing and totally worth the price my family paid (and yes my parents agree BTW), but I'm guessing she feels differently about her experience. It did seem like an awfully nice place to work, but the faculty there were incredibly lucky and in no way represent a "normal" faculty situation. Plus except for *one* guy, the faculty I got to know well there definitely worked their tails off!

Those "well rounded" classes ARE actually useful for some people. While I agree that people who want a piece of paper in order to get a real job should not be required to take them (and are quite unlikely to benefit from them if the piece of paper is truly all that they want), expanding one's mind by learning new things is nothing to be sneezed at. Isn't that what all this classical education stuff is supposed to be about? Why is that stuff important in K-12, but not in college? I would love it if technical degrees were the only requirement for many jobs, as that's all a lot of them really require. But to me, technical degrees are absolutely not a replacement for the experience traditionally meant by "college." I hope that experience is always available for those who truly want and can benefit from it. Blurring the line between these two different types of programs does nothing but harm to both of them, and to the students in them. I teach community college courses in a field none of my students will ever work in. We focus on critical thinking and (to some extent) writing in the context of my subject area. Do they need to know this in order to read X-rays or fix cars? No. Will this make their lives more interesting? Will it give them tools to appreciate and compare arguments and interpretations about things they hear on TV or read in a magazine? I hope so. Students who truly aren't interested in anything they won't use at work tomorrow will get nothing out of my classes, and I wish they didn't have to take them. I like to think that students who are in college to expand their intellectual horizons are getting something meaningful from them, though, and I'd hate to see that opportunity disappear just because they can't pay for Harvard.

I'm trying to get a full-time academic job right now, and in my field, it would be akin to winning the lottery. Competition is incredible. The salary and benefits situation you describe really only applies to the very top-of-the-heap people late in their careers. Those people by and large really would earn more in the private sector-- they'd be CEOs, not bus drivers, so their salaries need to be compared accordingly. Universities that want to hire the very top researchers in their fields have to pay them well in order to attract them. The U of C system is very highly ranked in terms of job desirability, even while CA's budget situation continues to implode. For most schools (especially public) the salaries are much less, and most professors are assistant or associate rather than full professors (and have lower salaries). CSU system profs make about half what UofC ones do, if I recall correctly (which isn't all that spectacular in many parts of CA). Here's an article with some more perspective (on both sides) on this situation: http://chronicle.com/article/faculty-salaries-barely-budge-2012/131432 One thing that always seems to get lost in these debates is the fact that the vast majority of people teaching "just" two classes are working *way* more than the hours they spend in the classroom. Regentrude mentioned this earlier. Course prep, grading, meeting with and mentoring students and guiding their research, administrative duties, and the prof's research (which feeds directly into teaching and student mentoring) that's often expected to be a huge portion of their job are taking a LOT of time. Yes, there are things that make academia a "cushy" job in some ways (intellectual satisfaction, an office with a door on it more often than in many jobs), but short working hours (at least during the 9 months you're paid to work) are definitely not one of them, at least in the three college/university settings in which I've worked. Everyone I know who's left academia cites wanting 9-to-5 working hours and less job pressure as their main or only reason for doing so. (They usually mention earning more money and getting to choose the region they'll live in second and third.)

I will probably get flamed for this, but here goes: I think 10 years from now he'll write mostly by typing, and no one will care what his handwriting looks like. With the limited time our family has, it's not on my own afterschooling radar at all.:leaving: Of the things you mentioned, writing (content, organization and mechanics) seems more important as a foundation skill for the future. Maybe it's because I teach college students who often can't write, but math and writing are my top priorities with our limited time. My kid is younger than yours, but lots of people here have experience with the writing programs you mention. (I'm feeling drawn to MCT next year for afterschooling purposes, but there are lots of choices!)

This is our family, too. We are lucky-- our school district still has real art, music, and PE, decent math and reading programs, lots of fun field trips, etc. Our kids don't have characteristics that make learning in a class of 20 difficult for them, our school-age kid loves her school, and my husband and I really love our jobs. I sometimes wish our kids had the level of personalized attention and curriculum choices homeschooling allows, but we think public school with some supplementing at home is a better choice for our situation. Is there any way for you (the OP) to send your kids to a different school? I'd be trying everything I could to move to a different district in your situation, but I realize not everyone can do that. You'll probably never find a school that's perfect (especially if homeschooling is a big part of your identity), but it makes me really sad that so many people are stuck with terrible schools. :(

I agree! I took a dissection summer school class when I was 8 or 9 and still remember how much I loved it, and how fascinating it was! Dissections seem surprisingly unpopular on this board, but unless your family is vegetarian I don't see what all the fuss is about. I like the idea of getting them interested in these things while they're young, before they've bowed to social pressure to be grossed out by everything.

I loved Josephine Tey (especially Brat Farrar) in late elementary/middle school, along with Ngaio Marsh and Michael Gilbert (the one who wrote British mysteries in the 50s-- not surprisingly there are several authors with that name). I also liked mystery/suspense melodramas by Mary Stewart and Daphne du Maurier, which come across as enjoyably campy to modern eyes if she has that kind of a sense of humor.

I work full time (40 hours, but with a flexible schedule) by combining two part-time jobs (postdoctoral researcher and adjunct instructor in college courses). We don't homeschool, but I like to do fun extra educational things with my kids and find a lot of resources for that here. I'm one of those who could easily be accused of not "really needing" to work-- my income is (sadly) quite small, and if I stayed home it would make little difference financially as we currently pay for childcare of various sorts instead. The "luxury" I'm supporting is my own sanity, though; I tried staying home full time for a year and was very unhappy. I've read comments on this board (not tons, but fairly regularly) suggesting women who feel like I do must be "selfish" or have some kind of unnatural lack of attachment to their kids, but they're wrong. :001_smile: I love my kids and would stay home if they needed me to, but we're lucky to have found childcare and schools we're happy with, and I know from experience that I'm a better mother when I'm not home all day. I know I'm really lucky our family circumstances-- financially, in our kids' needs, in our access to childcare and schools, and especially in the worldview/belief system my family shares-- allow me a choice in the matter, as there are so many people who have no choice for some or all of those reasons. I sometimes wonder if a lot of the judgmental comments on both sides of the working/SAHM divide come from feelings of being trapped, but it's probably more complicated than that.

I've heard of and experienced it. A camp cook used it on an extended group camping trip I was on, although she tied it to high rodent activity and group living rather than summer weather. That was the summer I discovered that if I eat off of bleached-and-air-dried dishes regularly, I get REALLY sick. As in, frequent near-uncontrollable bathroom trips, internal bleeding sick, day after day. Apparently my insides cannot handle the bleach residue this method was leaving behind. Our cook was reluctant to believe this, but when we took the bleach sink away, I got well within 24 hours. Needless to say, I'm not a fan of the bleach sink!

That's what happens at my daughter's school too, except that this sheet only gets filled out when kids first enter the school; if a child's needs change before the next grade year, parents have to ask for an update sheet. The teachers try to spread out kids with different challenges so that one class doesn't end up with more than its share of kids with similar kinds of behavior issues (like an inability to sit still for 10 minutes) feeding off each other. Something the principal once said seemed to suggest they also do this so they don't run into problems with specific teachers becoming "trendy" and getting requested by all the highly-involved volunteers and PTA parents, leaving most classes with very low parent support and one class with tons, but that was implied and not openly stated. Where I live, this can vary a lot by school-- they all choose their own methods, there's no set district or county standard for making these decisions.

This one seems kind of fancy (ooh, fennel) but is VERY easy and quick, based on a recipe from the old Gourmet magazine (RIP): 1 medium onion, chopped 1 fennel bulb, chopped (with a few chopped fronds reserved for garnish) 2 cloves garlic, crushed 1 T olive oil 1 lb sweet or hot Italian sausage a generous sprinkling of oregano a generous sprinkling of red pepper flakes (optional) 1 C (or 1 mini bottle) wine (white is traditional, but we like red too) 1 large (28oz) can crushed tomatoes Cook the first 3 ingredients in the oil until the onion is soft and just starting to brown. Add the sausage and spices and cook until no longer pink. Add wine and cook until reduced by about half. Add crushed tomatoes and simmer about 10 minutes. Toss with cooked pasta and sprinkle with reserved fennel fronds. Makes enough for 1lb pasta (it's especially good with rotini).

I'm glad you liked the magnet, it sounds like a great choice for you. Where I live, the neighborhood school was a better social/academic fit for us than any of the charters in our area. It's been nice socially in *some* of the ways you mentioned, but I don't think you should feel any regrets about going elsewhere. Our very nearest neighbor kids go to other schools for various reasons. There are also a lot of families who drive to our school from other areas, so it turns out some of my daughter's friends don't live nearby after all. Finally, a lot of parents work full time, so it's not as though all the neighborhood kids are hanging out and playing together every afternoon, despite mostly living near each other. I also think it's good for kids to have a few friends who don't go to their school, just so they don't end up feeling like their social situation at school is all-encompassing. Going to the magnet and trying to meet some neighborhood kids too (maybe through sports, scouts, or some other local extracurricular) seems like a nice way to make that happen.

Another possible contributor to the bad dental cleaning experience is age. According to my dentist, most kids get practically no tartar buildup. During puberty that changes, and we have to deal with the scraping from then on. Blech. You might change to a tartar control toothpaste if yours isn't, and I agree with the suggestions about flossing and making sure not to miss the 6-month appointments. I don't know about the earbuds or the "constantly moving" thing. Maybe something to ask her doctor about at her next checkup?

If there are any "western wear" type stores like Sheplers near you, they often have lots of jeans in very long lengths. I think they're made to wear with tall boots, but they are great with flat shoes for my very tall husband. We don't have much luck with the "big and tall" stores, because he's tall but thin. Apparently they expect everyone to be big in both dimensions-- we need a "big and/or tall" store...

Thanks again to everyone who replied to this. For the record, we had a fun party, and EVERYONE brought animal shelter donations instead of traditional gifts, hooray! Several people told me their kids had fun picking out animal toys, thanks to everyone who mentioned that. Over the weekend we took everything to the Humane Society shelter and spent some time walking around looking at the animals. (This particular shelter is very nice and non-depressing-- I would have thought twice about taking a very tender-hearted 6yo walking around some of the others around here unfortunately, anyone thinking about doing this might want to preview theirs.) A cat was adopted while we were there, which was nice. We all really enjoyed this, it was a nice solution to gift-overload. Thanks, everyone!

Either I am misunderstanding this, or we have different philosophies. I feel like my husband and I are the ones ultimately responsible for our 6yo's education, and sending her to school doesn't change that at all. If something isn't going as well as it could at school, we feel responsible for figuring it out and helping her until she gets it. Sure, she's at school for a good part of the day on weekdays, but she's still our kid! If I were hiring a full time private teacher just for my daughter, I would not expect to have to help her with the nuts and bolts of learning, but at this age I would still want to have a good idea what was going on in her lessons and how she was doing. By sending my daughter to school, I have "hired" a teacher for 33 hours a week and then split that teacher 20 ways with other families. For that kind of an investment, I don't think it's reasonable to expect the teacher to ensure that my individual child learns reading, math, science, history, and writing at the level I expect unless I do whatever I can to help my daughter whenever she needs it. I feel like my daughter's education is one of my primary responsibilities as a parent, and sending her to public school does not shift that responsibility away from me at all. I also feel weird having this conversation on a homeschooling forum, especially one where people regularly classify afterschooling as "just being a parent!"

Not a book, but the website http://becominghuman.org/ would complement whatever you choose for human evolution. There are a lot of short documentaries about paleoanthropologists and their research projects, brief web activities, etc. aimed at a broad audience.

That's too bad. That must be another thing that varies a lot by school. It's not a big deal at all for us to work on something for 10-15 minutes once or twice at some point between the end of the school day (2:30 here) and bedtime, but our school seems to have a much more sane homework policy than some. I've heard some people have more luck with this in the morning, especially if their kids are exhausted after school (mine really isn't, but I know some kids are).

That's good-- it sounds like you are just stressed right now and I misinterpreted your post. Maybe you can arrange to talk to the teacher (after you've had time to decompress), let her know your son doesn't seem to be sounding things out or learning phonics, and see what she says. If your school really doesn't teach it at all, that does sound bad, but you can do it yourself as others mentioned. If they are using "some" phonics but it doesn't seem to be sinking in, it may be pretty easy to supplement what he already knows. (I just got the OPGTR from the library myself so I can give a better explanation of some of the rules about long vowel sounds.)

Regarding the "no drugs" issue, again I'm no doctor, but I think there are some strains of malaria that can be cured by drug treatments if you get them, and others that cannot be permanently cured. So, this would very much depend on which strains are around where you are going. It sounds like where TheReader went, it was permanently curable. In the part of Ethiopia where I was, if you did get malaria you would most likely have a series of relapses throughout your life. A friend of mine got it (in spite of Lariam-- she got lots of bites) and has had a bad relapse about once a year ever since. She can be symptom-free for very long periods, but it will never completely go away. Anyway, this is definitely something you'd need to know more about before deciding.

Public school is not meant to operate in a total vacuum, 7 hours a day or not. Parent involvement is still necessary. It's important to have an idea of what is going on and try to help your kids learn anything they seem to be struggling with. Can you watch/help them do their homework? Volunteer in their classrooms, even if it's just for a couple of hours every month or two? Look at school or district websites to see what materials they are using, what their "standards" are in terms of the skills they work on each year, etc? Are classroom newsletters ever sent home? Do you have parent-teacher conferences? Are you in contact with your kids' teachers at all? Sorry if I'm stating the obvious, perhaps I'm misreading your post and what you mean by having "no idea" what has been going on for however long they've been there. My daughter is in K this year in a PS, and has had those same sight words recently and what sounds like a similar reader. In her school that is known as "pre-reading" and not reading. I've been in her classroom and seen the kids sounding out words, and she does this regularly with us at home too so she can get more practice and one-on-one help. Yes, her "sight reading" skills outstrip her phonics skills right now, but I think they will catch up fast. If they don't, we'll simply increase our time spent on that at home, no big deal. Another thing to think about is how your attitude about the school influences your kids. I know you wrote this in a moment of frustration, but if you give your kids the impression you resent the school and think it is a big waste of time, they will pick up on that and decide it's not worth their while to work hard. Again, sorry if this is not how you normally feel/act, but this particular post definitely has that tone to it.

Ooh, I know this one! For Thai night, this mango slaw is REALLY good. Just use your cabbage instead of the Napa one it calls for. (We also leave the cabbage out and serve it on a bed of lettuce often.) http://smittenkitchen.com/2010/07/mango-slaw-with-cashews-and-mint/