Hi Cindy: As Brenda mentioned in the previous line there are many TOG threads on this site. I, too would be happy to answer any questions. This fall will begin my third year of teaching with TOG. I began home schooling with Learning Adventures from Dorian Holt several years ago and then progressed to TOG, basically because my children are in high school. I have used TOG has a faithful spine for the dialetic and rhetoric learning levels. TOG is not for everyone, but I was already very comfortable teaching several children with the unit study approach. THis is the first year both of my students are in the rhetoric level - wow! You can contact TOG and ask for the free three-week trial, by the way. The material is so very flexible and creative. My children, despite very different learning styles and interests, have really enjoyed studying God's history by reading real books. We do not read all the books, but they are learning to analyze and synthesize their thoughts during a discussion session each week with me. I also really like TOG for teaching my children how to schedule their study time and how to prepare effectively; a valuable skill for college some day. I wish you every success as you search for the curriculum to meet your family's needs.

This is a question I have been pondering as well - thanks for the thread! SAT Subject Tests may be more applicable for students taught at home, when they are not taking an AP course. On-line advanced placement courses, I guess, are the most feasible for the eventual AP test.

There are many credible math text books on the market - numbs the mind. Before you decide I would spend a moment and read several previous threads from other home school moms searching for a math text too from this forum. Foerster's algebra texts are wonderful - really explains concepts but fosters a learning style that encourages the student to really think, not memorize and move on. His math lessons teach students to understand the concept from different angles. I only wish I had known about David Chandler's support when my son studied algebra II with Foerster this past year. My son did very well with the text, taught himself and me! But, I would have enjoyed learning the math with Mr. Chandler's assistance. :)

I agree with Sharon in MD about teaching the Trigonometry portion of Foerster's Algebra II/Trig text for the following year. When you student is ready for precalulcus then resume with trig. Foerster's precalculus text provided excellent graphic calculator instruction. Just a side point... I so appreciate home school moms like Sharon. Last summer I too was searching for an algebra II text for my son - who likes math. Her posts were invaluable to help me wade through the plethora of math texts. Thank you!

I would strongly suggest a solutions manual.

A quck chime-in from another TOG mom. The threads were excellent regarding TOG as a fantastic spine. Once I became comfortable with TOG and home schooling my different children I have learned to relax and have fun teaching and learnigng with my family. I jump off the TOG wagon many times when I notice a terrific book from the library that dovetails nicely with the subject in hand. Teaching Company has excellent college lectures on CD, I find them in my local public library. Throughout the summer and school year I listen to them while driving, doing house work, etc to study up. When my family travels on trips the TC "Great Courses" on CD are invaluable - the drivers stay more alert and my teens are riveted. Showing a TC DVD now and then helps mix the TOG material each week - go for it! In fact, towards the end of year 4 Marica Somerville recommeded several excellent videos to watch in lieu of discussion. One can always pause the DVD for discussion, too. Have fun!

My son just completed Foerster's Algebra/Trig book in June. I was armed only with the solutions manual and he survived - me, the teacher! Perhaps, a teacher's manual would have helped me, but I did not own one. My son and I sat down every school morning to read over the lesson, work out the practice problems, and Quick problems. Usually, he then proceeded to complete the assigned problems (which was usually odd or even ones). There were several occassions several problems baffled he and I, but then I sought out help from several other math-oriented home school moms. We quickly noticed that the problems became challenging towards the end of each lesson. My son did very well on the tests - often easier than the daily lessons. I am math challenged as you can surmise, but I survived and learned upper math somewhat too!

I highly recommend Paul Foerster's Algebra text. His text is written to encourage real thinking, to analyze and learn.

Karen: To answer your question regarding how much daily time is spent if teaching from TOG... Tapestry of Grace has been my family's educational pillar for the past three years (started when my son was starting ninth grade and daughter seventh grade). God has blessed me with two VERY different learners. :) So, TOG is tailored for my children's educational needs. My son dislikes reading. My daughter loves to read. My son rather do math and science all day long and HATES writing. My daughter is totally oposite. O.k. you get the idea. How do I utilize TOG for such different learners? Each Monday we sit down at command central; a.k.a. the kitchen table, hopefully cleaned off first. Reading assignments are discussed then along with scheduling the rest of our subjects, etc. I have become very comfortable with TOG suggested reading. I try to look ahead at the list a couple of weeks ahead and order books from local public library. So on a particular Monday I assign as few as possible reading assignments for my son as possible. He has a very heavy math and science load already. Sometimes I have picked up my own book titles from the library too that I know would interest him. For example... this coming year we are studying TOG year 1 (with the revised version which I am learning). There are several suggested books on warfare in ancient Greece and Rome - a topic interesting to my son. This reading topic will be for him. Also, I still assign some "Dialectic" books for him when he has a heavy math week. When a writing assignment is needed I always try to tie in the lesson with a topic that stimulates. A long research paper topic parallels history but pertains to his interests. I hope I am making sense... Yes, to answer how long - we discuss the week's scheduling on Monday morning for about twenty minutes and then my students read and answer their "thinking questions" on their own during the week. Our history and literature discussion sessions are usually scheduled for Fridays. TOG has taught them how to manage their schedules - they own it! I rarely need to help them during the week with geography, literature, history, church history. What I do spend exhorbitant time on each day is helping them with math, science, and Spanish. Remeber my son reads slower than my daughter. I try very hard not to overload with reading. You can also try to read with him - my teens still love this! Also, why not take a school year to complete half of a typical TOG curriculum? Who says you must keep pace with a suggested curriculum. TOG may not be for your son BUT it is indeed flexible and does NOT take mother's time each day. During the week while my teens are reading history and literature I read my own TOG teacher's notes and highlight points I want to discuss with them on a Friday discussion session. There are times my son did not complete his TOG "Thinking Questions" thoroughly (in my opinion) so during the discussion session we go over the material in more detail. My kids diligently complete their questions as well as possible but are encouraged to speak up for clarification. TOG has the answers laid out for me too. TOG really helps prepare high school students for college - even when my son will probably major in the engineering field. They learn how to read material (essential for college), how to search for answers, how to think and analyze, how to discuss and share points, and how to appreciate God's marvelous HIStory. Last year I taught a world history course to a local co-op. Notgrass World History was the initial text, but found the students were very bored with the history text and answering standard rote questions each week. No matter which direction you travel please consider this point: most students appreciate history, for example, from reading REAL books, not condensed texts.

My sixteen year-old son recently completed Foerster's Algebra II/Trigonometry text. This is a challenging text - at least for me - but my son really learned advanced math well. I checked with the publisher's web site and learned this text is considered an honor's course level (which I included on my son's high school transcript). Probably Foerster is not for every student - certainly not for my liberal-arts daughter who has a disdain for math. If your student has the math aptitude then Foerster is a wonderful choice to stimulate and stretch his/her brain. My son studied algebra I with Harold Jacob's text, however. Foerster's Algebra II/Trig text includes thorough chapter reviews, SAT-type questions, and excellent thought-provoking test questions. This is no easy course.

Thanks for the tip regarding the John Adams HBO series available through Netflix! My hubby recently signed up with Netflix. I definetly will include my family when viewing this terrific DVD series. Next year my children will be studying the birth of our nation and will probably assign McCullough books (John Adams and 1776). They are astounding biographies!

I have also been looking for a safer Gilgamesh for my young teen. Tapestry of Grace assigns this book for it year one, literature in the rhetoric level. I can certainly skip this assignment but want to try finding a version for my child. From my local public library I just borrowed the David Ferry translation but found some explicit language regarding the .... So, I checked on TOG web site and found the year 1 tab for literature. You can print a wonderful Gilgamesh summary for your student, about nine pages long. While you search for a "cleaner" version for the youngster the summary is quite insightful and SAFE! Hope this helps!

Sharon: Thank for taking a moment to share your upcoming family's performance! Just by chiming in with your fellow homeschool warriors is indicative of your dedication and support for the Well Trained Community! Have a great time!

I am planning to teach from BJU Space and Earth science to my ninth grader in the fall. She just doesn't like Dr. Wile's writing style in the Apologia series so I looked around. What intrigues me with BJU is the colorful photos and well written text. My older teen recently finished the extensive two-volume BJU biology text and really enjoyed it. He read the chapters by himself and then discussed with me about once a week, basically self-taught himself. My ninth grader made need my assistance but is a strong reader and independent learner. Choosing strong curriculum really depends on your child's learning needs. THe Apologia series are no doubt terrific, but my children were of a different opinion. Oh, I never purchased the DVD with Bob Jones. The BJU offers a very thorough program. THe texts are often available used. Best wishes on your quest!

I am also teaching two teens this coming fall with two very different learning styles - how God is stretching me! :001_smile: Your thread speaks of a rhetoric program... well in my home I teach rhetoric everyday with Tapestry of Grace, a terrific unit study approach written by Marcia Somerville. Throughout the high school years, this age group is labeled "rhetoric", she provides encouragement and excellent instruction for the parent. One of the objectives in teaching high school students is for them to stand up for their beliefs. Well, Tapestry of Grace (TOG) hones analysis and synthesis every week by way of though provoking assignments and practicing socratic discussion session. No, my teens are not taking a rhetoric class by itself, and you may want to go this path. My children are learning rhetoric in a natural way, integrated in their daily studies. There are many, many wonderful home studies available for you to consider. TOG is only one, but thought I would share my input.

Wow- the threads were well written and very helpful too! I especially enjoyed reading someone's TOG opinion saved on her hard drive (I plan to save it too). I have never taught from Sonlight only Learning Adventures from Dorian Holt and now TOG for the past three years. Yes, I do order books from my local library on-line but that is the only "preparation" needed. My kids absolutely love the planning stage each Friday (sometimes on Mondays - your choice). Sitting around the kitchen table - where else - we briefly discuss the topic for the following week and then assign readings and questions. My older teens usually print out the family's TOG student pages from a handy CD and then off they go. Armed with their assignments written in their own planner they now OWN their weekly educational calendar. We schedule what day they will come to me for literature and history discussions and then must prepare. They really like the freedom to master their time and probably not having me to "badger" them to complete their homework! Will they be able to handle college in a couple of years? I believe they will, in large part to TOG!

I so appreciate reading "Coopers5" comments! Thank you. Ditto for me too! In my imperfect home school world my teens have read from anthologies and primary sources - depending on what I can lay my hands on. TOG has really been my life-line, but I teach it without breaking my meager bank account. Many times my rhetoric children have read different versions of the literature assignments and have adjusted well when TOG page numbers do not jive with their publication's pages. Maybe they have to work at it a bit more, but they also have to read the entire selection! A very handy accountablility tool for me! Yes, I try very hard to select books from the recommended TOG list but have also had no problems choosing substitute titles too. Please remember TOG is designed to be very flexible to fit your children's learning needs. If you feel one of your students needs a dialetic book (even though he or she is in high school) for a particular title then you easily can adjust. TOG offers a plethora of reading titles. I also feel quite comfortable to select my own titles from my local library regardig the history section, providing they cover the same theme. I hope this information helps! It was a very good question. Enjoy your summer.

Tapestry of Grace has been my life-line teaching my older students. I have now taught from TOG (years 2, 3, 4) and have never felt or noticed Marcia Somerfeld, author of TOG, to prostelytize her faith. In fact, she is very careful not to create a theological rift. TOG year 2 historically brings to light the Reformation Movement and then later the Great Awakening. Marcia deftly describes the Protestant theology - but not derisive view points. I am very comfortable with TOG. THe primary focus is to teach students to think, analyze, and then synthesize.

My daughter recently finished two years studying junior-high level science with Rainbow Science. She enjoyed the text and completed most experiments on her own; a self-study program. Since my daughter is not too interested in sciences and will probably not pursue that field in college Rainbow Science was fine. I found it rather cursory in science knowledge at best. On the other hand - yes, I have been blessed with several children who learn very differently - my teenage son is very interested in pursuing engineering in college. THus he needs challenging math and science courses to help him prepare for college. My children never cared for Apologia Science texts (they feel Dr. Wile is too "chatty"). I realize that many, many home school families really like his series. My son prefers studying science using Bob Jones curriculum - very colorful and thorough. He just finished their high school biology program - rather intensive, in my humble opinion. My daughter, the one who read through Rainbow Science, will be studying a Bob Jones science text for ninth grade in the fall. I am not sure Rainbow prepared her very well, but she is a bright student and will come through. I guess I would recommend Rainbow Science for the non-science student. Since your son enjoys science then supplement Rainbow with other facets. Have a great school year ahead!

Tamarind: Thanks for keeping this thread alive! Great advice that I plan to copy and paste for reference. Denise

Hi! My daughter plans to learn French (9th grade) this fall with Breaking the Barrier with French, too. My son is completing his first year of Breaking the Barrier with Spanish. THe grammar is excellent and provides helpful hints to remember verb conjugations and new vocabulary. My years of Spanish in high school is a big plus. French.... I do not know this beautiful language and am not sure Breaking the Barrier is the only answer for my daughter. She will learn grammar and vocabulary, but this mom cannot help her with the oral exercises. Yes, a audio CD accompanies the text, but my child needs a live French speaking partner to truly enjoy speaking French. Any suggestions? Adios, Denise

My son used Dr. Edward Burger's College Algebra CD this past year from Thinkwell. Although Dr. Burger is a terrific, engaging professor of math my son found the lessons to be wanting. It seemed to us that a lot of material was covered before a test which made retention difficult for high school student. I recommend the math CD but only has supplement to another math curriculum. My son completed Paul Foerster's Algebra/Trig. Hope this is helpful. Denise

Lisa: From my humble experience I was asked to teach a world history course to my local high school co-op using the Notgrass World History text. After reading through the book I just couldn't teach from it. I found the text dry and quite vague on historical information. The questions from each lesson seemed rather 'canned' , not allowing a student to really think about the trememdous historical implications. One must remember that Mr. Notgrass writes all his curriculum but does not cite his sources - for me an important point. Your children may really enjoy the Notgrass curriculum but really read through it first. Regarding the co-op I ended up teaching from TOG, year 2 (Middle Ages, Renaissance, etc) adapting to the group of teens. The students loved the class discussions and really learned a lot of history. For me there is no subsitution to learning about God's history than by reading real books. Tapestry of Grace is also used in my home. I realize that your children have gone through a rotation of TOG (mine too), however, there is a rich supply of new books available to study history hundreds of years ago. You may want to draw specific rhetoric material from TOG while reading new literary selections from your own library. For me I have found TOG very adaptable. You may want to still use it along with some of the Notgrass material. Wishing you wonderful journey studying world history! Denise

Hi! From my understanding anyone high school student can form a JET TEAM+S in the U.S. Teams are for 9-12th grades only, consisting of 4-8 teens. The website, www.jets.org, states that approximately 14,000 students participate each year (competitions are held locally Feb-March). About 90% of students return the following year's competition (except seniors, of course.) A college or high school probably hosts a competition near you - the web site offers such information. If your team competes well then it can move on to a higher level. What intrigues me is that public high school teams compete with other public schools and a home school team would compete against other home school teams - all to keep the playing field level. Of course, with only one home school team competing last year the door is W-I-D-E open! Denise

Amen! Several years when I was searching for core curriculum for my children the plethora of choices overwhelmed me. Once I did settle on the curriculum I plowed ahead, not worrying about the "what if's". Denise