I'm wondering if I'm going to feel this way. I keep reading through the material thinking, "Gosh, this seems like a lot of trouble to go to for a few classes or events." But maybe there aren't many open and easy activities in the area? I don't know.

I've had a few run-ins lately with co-ops/playgroups that are fairly exclusive, either invitation only or you have to apply and basically be interviewed. (Secular groups, religion isn't a factor, if it makes a difference.) I'm not sure how I feel about them. I've always enjoyed the come-as-you-are groups and love inviting new families and making them feel welcome. The social piece can be hard for new families to navigate and we are so lucky where we live to have many open groups. We are moving and the groups in the new area all seem to be exclusive in some fashion. I understand the reasons, I suppose, but I'm also not sure how I feel about belonging to "the club" and having to keep it secret from/not inviting other families. I feel like our weekday time is extremely limited and I want to make sure we are using it wisely, with people we enjoy, doing things we enjoy, and that changes throughout the year. I'd hate to have to tell one family, "Sorry, we are doing this activity today and you can't come even though we truly enjoy your friendship." The whole thing is feeling bizarre to me, but maybe it's just because it's something we haven't done before. Do you belong to groups like this where you aren't allowed to invite anyone else, ever? How does it work? Is being that exclusive worth it? In what way?

Yep. Agreed.

I'd bet the girl thinks you offered to pay for it, which is why she thanked you profusely.

For a year, maybe. I'm too controlling with school and I'm not sure dh would do thing my way. :) :) I was a teacher, so I wouldn't want to go back for a year or two. When I go back, it will be for a long term commitment. Plus, I still do 100% of the planning and worrying. I'm not wanting to go back to working on top of all that.

Honestly I would have walked away from that conversation with your caseworker thinking she ws a complete nut. I think you should be following your daighter's therapist's advice, not her caseworker's. if she doesn't have a therapist, that's where you need to start.

First of all, your mom is now Grandma. She's a new person. ;) Second, it sounds like the school set up makes it hard to tie a consequence to school work. She's 12. She still needs adults helping her manage and it sounds like the school dropped the ball on their end. Finally, I think not doing chores deserves immediate attention, not the removal of a privilege in the future. That's just my opinion. There would be very few things that would warrant me taking a trip like this away because of the educational benefits it offers. It's not like they are going to a theme park for the day. I realize it's a big treat and it is expensive, but there is no way I'd take it away for what you described, especially at only 12 years old (at 16 it would be another story). That's just my opinion and it's always easy to say what I'd do when I'm not the one dealing with the behaviors.

I think supernatural things can exist regardless of how I feel about religion. To me they aren't the same thing.

Yep, crazy. :)

Are you in VA? You can have mine. ;)

That's a big question, so I'll just offer a few thoughts. Religion has an element of "I'm right and you're wrong." That creates conflict. However, this same attitude can come from particular races, countries, and really any sort of "group." Religion just happens to play a very big part in the system of behaving for a cause, conformity, following a leader, etc. I'm not sure if it's a "misuse" of religion because I think people interpret the purpose of religion in different ways. I'd like to think that the goal would be to use religion in only positive ways, but my definition of positive is obviously very different from others. Again, I think it circles back to being right and wrong. When you add religious beliefs into a conflict, it becomes very difficult to have a dialog with anyone from a different faith (or none) because "that's what I believe" or "that's what my religion teaches" will never be a way to discuss and reach common ground. Does that make sense? You just remain in opposition and conflict. (Obviously not always, I'm just reflecting on religiously motivated conflicts and conversations I've had with others...just musing, I suppose.) **I also want to add that I *don't* believe religion, in general, is a bad thing. Just thinking about the questions you asked. And no, I don't believe atheists agree on this anymore than Christians ALL agree on...well, anything! ;)

But then, I suppose those are the types of people who might be drawn toward religion in the first place. ? I don't know. I'm sure it's a wonderful pillar of strength for many people, just like some people find the same kind of strength in their family, friends, etc. Or medication and therapy. :)

So, I actually have friends who lost a child. They are Christian. The attitude from other Christian's that this was somehow "the plan" or that "God had a reason" was incredibly hurtful to them. They didn't believe that at ALL. They are still very religious and believe in heaven and believe their baby is up there, and that gives them comfort. I don't believe not having a belief in the afterlife is going to make someone suicidal. No. Is there a beneficial use for religion? Sure. We attend the UU church. There is no doctrine, but church serves as a community and a venue to be uplifted, to volunteer, to fellowship, etc. It's good and beneficial, all without having to subscribe to a set of religious doctrines.

Well, we are more agnostic leaning, but we used to be Mormon, so I'll give this one a try. For *me,* looking back, sin was about rules, guilt, and worth. Lots of baggage. Now, I look at behaviors in relation to what it means for my own growth and relationships with other people. Also, I have a firmer understanding of the relativism of "sin" and have realized that with more life experience, it becomes more difficult to stand in a place of judgment over someone else. We are all walking different paths. If yours works for you, great. Do good, be good, live and let live and all that. Sin just isn't a part of my vocabulary or world anymore. We go to a UU church and one of the principles is to promote the inherent worth and dignity of every person. When you begin with that, it's difficult to end in judgment, especially from an eternal/worthiness perspective. (Though I'm far from perfect and judge a lot.)

Also, the Powhatan is in a good location. Greensprings was awkward to get to.

A little dated, but very comfortable and quiet. They have a few pools and the outdoor pool we went to was really nice. We got it for $50 a night on hotels.com one September, so it was a steal! There were two twin beds upstairs for the kids and our bathroom was huge. The living area was a little small, but we really didn't use it. We ended up doing the timeshare presentation and got a free stay at Greensprings that we used the following year. Greensprings was bigger and not as dated, but it was dead. We didn't see any other kids. The Powhatan had a more kids at the pool and seemed a little more lively.

Condo. If it's the Powhatan or Greensprings, we've stayed at both.

I would totally drop them off.

Thanks everyone!

That's a wonderful idea! I'm scheduling that for Sunday night!

See, my brain just doesn't work like that. What a great idea.

So, funny thing about dry ice. We used to buy it all the time when we lived in Utah. Then we moved to Virginia. The first time we lost power, my husband raced to buy dry ice and it was SO hard to find. Some of the grocery stores looked at us like we were CRA-ZY! They said, "I think you have to call the ice company for that." Ha!

No electricity. Most of the sites I reserved were tent only sites. (This is the first leg of a summer long camping trip.) Duct tape! Genius!

Oh, we'll be able to get ice daily Sun-Wed, but Thurs-Sat will be a little more difficult as we'll be at Lake Powell. I'm sure we'll get ice at some point, it just won't be as convenient.

Making meals while camping, all while traveling, is proving to be a little daunting. I won't be able to prep anything ahead of time. We will go straight from the grocery store to our campsite. We will have one big cooler, a dutch oven, one burner, one pot, and utensils, cutting board, etc. Here's the schedule: Sunday: Stop at Whole Foods, drive six hours, check into the campground Camp Sunday, Monday and Tuesday nights Leave Tuesday, drive 90 minutes to Safeway, drive another hour to our second campsite Camp Wednesday, Thursday, and Friday nights Any ideas? I'm assuming we'll need to buy some frozen meats so that it stays good in the cooler. It will be really hot outside. For breakfasts we are planning on a lot of egg dishes as well as steel cut oats. What about lunches and dinners? I only have one or two menu items up my sleeve and that's a long time to be eating sandwiches. Can you give me some tips on how to organize the meals so that we eat up the most perishable items first? THANKS. We want to hit the store with a menu in hand.