I’m not so much offended as just irked. But hey. We figured this out. 😁 Side topic. I think “figure it out on your own” is just another way of saying “f around and find out”. While it often does result in finding out, most people don’t think it the best first go-to option. I have no idea how often I or some other parent has thought, “oh they can figure it out.” And we weren’t wrong. They did indeed figure out a new way to do something wrongly that we really didn’t expect them think of.🙃

Oh I just can’t even. Nearly all my closest friends have kids in school. When the schools get rid of the chrome books and stop sending literally dozen of text messages and emails a day to parents (who one presumes most are at work) then they can complain about parents trying to stay in touch with their kids. That’s not even getting into how violent schools have become and all the anxiety of that.

🤦‍♀️ Maybe get context before presuming I’m for teaching learned helplessness then. Oh good grief. I didn’t assume anything. She literally called my post out as some kind of learned helplessness even though she didn’t bother to read the context of my post. And I get being taken aback by it. I think we all forget how many first times we have had until we are suddenly reminded of stuff like, “oh yeah someone had to explain combination locks to me once too.” BUT. I cannot stress enough how much a scenario like this lock scenario you describe has absolutely completely nothing to do with how smart or diligent a kid is. Nothing. It wouldn’t surprise me one bit if the smartest, hard working-est and most figure it out-est person in the world did the very same thing. Me too. Life is hard enough.

What the hecken. If a parent sees or hears that a kid doesn’t know how to use a combination lock and the parent thinks they should know how to use a combination lock - then for crying out loud - look right there is the people the kid needs to figure it out!!! But they are too dang busy trashing all the reasons the kid is failing at learning the basic task instead of just helping them figure it out. The kids should ask an upperclassman, a teacher, google it - well yeah but you are standing right there able to help and doing nothing, so why would the kid expect anyone else to help?

Amen. This. Every day on this board alone people post all kinds of problems that they are struggling to figure out. They are posting bc they aren’t figuring it out on their own! And there’s no shame in that at all. Because none of us are getting by on our own. A ridiculously harsh thread about, of all things, how awful it is if teens don’t know how to use a combination lock and therefore aren’t using their locker. I shouldn’t have bothered to post on it. Yes. I am a figure it out person. Because I’ve had no choice most of the time. And the result of that is there is a LOT I didn’t figure out until it was too late to be of any use to me. This is a major reason hindsight is 20/20. Which is utterly unhelpful when one needs it. And there’s a lot, especially as I get older, that frankly isn’t worth my time to figure out. So I can understand a stressed out time crunched teen deciding a combination lock isn’t worth their mental energy and they’ll just not use the locker. We can harp that teens today are just too lazy or stupid or uneducated or badly parented or must have some learning problem or disability to figure out a combination lock - OR - and I’m only suggesting that *maybe* we could just kindly show them how to use the blasted lock and leave all that other baggage at the curb for trash pick up instead of insisting the next generation carry it. I mean if one is that invested in the tragic lack of combination lock use at lockers by teens - just showing them how to use the lock seems the most direct solution. If some people have never needed their hand held through simple tasks to figure it out - then I’m truly happy for them. But the truth is that almost everyone repeatedly does at times in life for lots of reasons that have nothing to do with intelligence or diligence. And it’s no fair at all that those times in life also tend to be the same times when they are the least likely to feel able to ask for help. I am forever blessed and grateful to those who have helped me figure out dumb stuff without me having to also figure out how to ask them for it.

1) It should come as no shock that most people of any age do not like doing things they think are bothersome. 2) It should come as no shock that most people do not practice much of anything with their kids. Communication is hard. And that brings us back to #1 3) I personally dislike the phrase “let them figure it out” bc frankly I see a world more full of people struggling than actually figuring anything out. Myself included. People do not just miraculously know about things and how things work. And, again, communication is hard, and no one likes to feel stupid so they don’t ask the questions needed to “figure it out.”

Back in the early 90s. Almost no one used lockers at my school bc we had 5 minutes to get between classes and it was just more stress to deal with lockers than just keep your stuff with you. But I absolutely could use the locks.

Agreed. I’m just saying that it is possible to build better buildings for the given environment.

And we can reduce the risks of living but we can’t eliminate it. I’m not encouraging buildings that will regularly leave them without water. We could consider better building and water systems. I’m not talking unused tracts. There’s a LOT of area in many cities that is going vacant. Zoning codes could be adjusted to accommodate options that weren’t an option previously for those places. But … yeah there’s lots of land here too. The problem is t that there isn’t property to repurposed or reasoned. It’s that certain economic holders refuse to accept having diverse economic people living around them. K🤷‍♀️

if we are talking straight housing costs - it’s always cheaper to go up. My same 2 story house in square footage built as a 1 story would more than double the cost. Yes. Well. Natural disasters are… disasters. There are ways to build safer and better for the location needs. But that aside - civil services are always underserved in rural and poor districts. The federal government had to take the initiative to push for electricity and phone lines across America into rural areas bc frankly those areas were never going to get it on their own. During covid people were shocked that there’s still areas with no or not reliable internet access. And again, some of that could be improved with better zoning so that the low income aren’t segregated into entire areas that it’s then not profitable to serve.

It can be. True. But that doesn’t mean it always is. There are areas of my county that have at least as many light skinned people as darker and the key to them not getting equal services is bottom line - income disparity. IOW. They are poor neighborhoods. Neighborhoods that don’t have HOAs that will pay for community upkeep and also don’t have a tax incentive to either entice the city to do build things like sidewalks or attract big businesses. Idc what shade they are - the bottom line is there’s no profit to being there. Not for them. Not for business. And not for the city. You can drive down main street here and down the expensive shopping corridors and see plenty of homeless people. Most are white. And let me assure you, they get plenty of hate. I’m telling you I have seen and heard it. At least people will have enough shame to try to hide that they are racist. They make no such effort for how horribly they think of poor people. Which is neither here nor there to my point. No one in this thread is being racist or denying racism exists. But let’s be real too. There’s plenty of varieties of hate. Claiming white people who are actively wanting positive change that benefits everyone are racists bc you presume they didn’t care at some other point just seems an effort to thwart improvements and propagate ill-will. Sure did. Gerrymandering and zoning is a problem. I have not read anyone here who disagrees with that at all. Those policies ensured that elites didn’t have to look at where those below them economically or politically lived. Be it race or economics. It’s not like Tulsa is not known internationally for a history of racism. Again because people in poverty can’t afford to shop at Target. It s a huge problem when the only grocery store access people have is dollar stores. Which ironically enough for their name, can be some of the most expensive places to shop for necessities in those areas. And they have a hard time staying open bc the theft and robberies are on the daily. It’s a conundrum bc desperate poor people and people lacking mental health services are forced into a ghetto by economics and then is becomes “that area of town” that is crime riddled but if you send more cops - not even the cops are happy about it. And you can attract stores to the area but once the tax incentives end - they leave bc it flat out is not profitable for them to stay there. Businesses want to make money. If they could make money there - suddenly they wouldn’t care about race as much as money. Maybe I’m just cynical to think that. Which is why I said a lot of housing problems would be resolved or avoided if zoning mandated a hot mix within every 3-5 miles. There’d be a target there bc even if there’s a lower cost apartment complex and some smaller houses, there’d also be a lot of other mixed in. The balance would make it better for everyone. Think of it as economic desegregation via zoning.

Right. And I’m not entirely in disagreement with them pending the type of zoning they have. I think zoning should be a hot mix of type and sizes all within a 3-5 mile area. Within that 3-4 mile are should be big expensive-ish homes, smaller 1000sq ft houses, upscale appartments and Lowe scale apartments, parks and playgrounds, basic shopping, pedestrian access everywhere and several transit stops. I also see little value in putty a tiny 400sq fr house on a normal sized lot. And I think building codes are legit worries. How is the local EMT going to get someone out of that place if they need help? I look at a lot of tiny houses and think, “That’s cute until they break a leg.”

I don’t think so. Bc a tiny house still needs more property. The cheapest way to build is to build UP. Same allotment of land but going up allows more home space. Tiny homes also contribute to urban sprawl bc they aren’t likely to have access to already developed land in the city due to cost of property, so they tend to be on the outskirts away from easier access to city options. However I think city planning could work with developers in many cities to offer small home options that might not necessarily bc the American traditional house. For example, a small store owner could build housing for his family above his store. (Most zoning here currently in the books doesn’t allow for such a combination. Tho some areas are starting to be more open to it.) Rent it or use it. Sell it separate from the store. The ability to buy a condo doesn’t have to be restricted to condos. It could be apartments too. So instead of a shopping center away from where people live, there’s places for people to live and have easy access to nearby stores. Green ways and dog parks nearby. Tiny homes or garage apartments are fine but I don’t think millions of them are a sustainable or socially good option. Humans aren’t meant to live in isolation and those living accommodations tend towards individuals bc there’s not space for more than 1 person. Which small apartments might be like that too, but they usually are within city access and not so isolated.

Are there non-white people who wouldn’t do that? And it’s not like NYC and Houston and LA don’t have Targets. What they also have is a transit system and more pedestrian city planning. Most city planning is a PITA bc of cars. This is a universal city planning pita regardless of country or demographic. Most of the comments I hear and read for why things will “hurt property value and shouldn’t be done” is not about race but poverty. How dare them poor people bring their crime here if we put a transit stop nearby type of comments. The poor in that area might tend to have darker skin, but it really wouldn’t matter if they were Snow White. Because the attitude is that poverty is dirty and they don’t want to see that dirt in their neighborhood. Because the attitude is that poorer people are poor because they somehow deserve it and so the poor haven’t earned the right to such social improvements. I’m not saying racism isn’t real bc obviously it is. But also. Why slap the hands stretched out to help positively change things just bc some of the hands might be too pale?

Yeah. It can be a fine line between a reputable hostel and just glorified tenements. I agree with that.

Even when the zoning doesn’t limit family living together - there’s other ways it’s actively discouraged. For example there may be a limit to cars per dwelling. I have a friend whose HOA doesn’t allow any cars to be parked in the street overnight and no commercial vehicles in driveways or street unless in use. So the plumber can park his van there if he is working on the house, but he has to park it in his garage if he lives there. The fine is not small either. Iirc it starts at $50 per day/incursion. Somewhere with transit might not be an issue but here if there’s 4 adults and a teen driver - that’s very commonly going to mean 4-5 cars and the house only has 2 garage slots and maybe 2 driveway spots. Somebody is unable to park their car. There’s other social economic issues too. Car insurance for another. Many insurance companies presume that all drivers in the household have to be on each car in the household. You would not believe what I have had to go through to prove that a grown kid moved out and should not be on our insurance. We had two policies refuse to renew unless I added those grown and moved out adults or proved that they both moved out and had their own insurance. I think it should be illegal but as always, we have no rights we can’t afford to defend. Thankfully I’m on decent terms with most of my grown children and could provide that info. Bc otherwise - how do you make a grown adult give you proof of anything?! which brings me to my complaint about FAFSA… but that’s another topic.

I do not think anyone has a right per se necessary to be a home owner. But I do think the ability own where we live is a benefit to making people franchised in their communities and country. It offers a kind of freedom and stability that renting or share cropping fail to manage. Now whether they buy a house or a condo or whatever. Or even an apartment - in many places there are ways to buy an apartment, not just rent it - I think especially for major cities this is something Americans should consider making an option more often. But home ownership does tend to bring certain social positives for multiple generations that we should encourage. For one thing, even if my children never move back to our house - knowing they can absolutely affects their decisions. Compare that to the grown children of renters. Or just to inherit something even if only to sell it. The ability to modify the home for medical needs. The ability to have a pet or a garden. A place to park the car that lowers insurance rates. There’s a lot of benefits to home ownership for individuals and communities.

yeah that’s my first thought on things like that too. That’s all kinds of mental health issues more than property rights issues. Yeah I get pretty ticked off about HOA type stuff. I might appreciate aesthetics, but I don’t think it should trump owner rights. (Otherwise, I want to pitch a fit over all the glass box designed buildings that are hideous eyesores imo.) But I’m very pro general good stewardship of the land policies. I’m a fan of fining people for pouring left over paint in the street drain for example. I think all city zoning should require a variety of types of homes and businesses in various price points within the same 3-5 mile range. I thinks it’s beyond stupid my city doesn’t have a reliable 24/7 transit system yet. I know there is a need for it but all hellfire breaks out every time there’s a mention bc oh woe is me them poor people might use the bus to get to those McMansions they clean and that will bring the property values down. Cry me a river of don’t care anymore bc we’d all be a bit better off with less expensive housing anyways at this point. And with the whole car situation not really recovering to pre covid buying options - we need it more than ever.

I do not think it is and I do not think it should be. We need state and national parks for all our sakes. We need water ways and utilities for all our sakes. We need roads and other facilities (libraries, hospitals, fire stations…) that generally speaking are a cost loss but we can’t maintain modern civilization or progress civilization with them. All of this requires mandates for public lands vs private lands. more likely an amalgam of things with various checks and balances. Capitalism isn’t evil unless it’s left unchecked. Same for socialism. Personally I think this whole rugged individualism thing will be the end of many countries. And honestly it’s pure luck that isn’t us. But it could be any of our kids. This stress is becoming more and more common for families. And just like allowing insurance to cover kids until they are 26 doesn’t solve that problem bc not everyone has parents or grandparents they can move in with. I’m all for multigenerational households in families that can make that work. But there’s nothing in our society set up to foster that dynamic either.

That’s a mighty wide brush you’re painting with there. There is a difference between profit and greed. profit is not a sin. Greed is. The line is really not that hard to see between the two. profit benefits society. Greed is an actual literal detriment to it. And we do have some laws that reflect that truth. Laws against price gauging and monopolies and racketeering being obvious examples. And really at this point housing is beginning to or actually is at the point of 1 or more of those to me in many areas of the country. It is not hypocrisy to observe the fact that not all business practices are ethical and good for society.

But I really don’t think that’s true. DEMOCRACY allows you to vote. Capitalism only allows those with money to vote. And more and more often Capitalism is restricting what the rest of us can choose. democracy and capitalism are NOT the same thing. Thank God or we’d still have slavery. That said as pertains directly to renting: I think the answer is possibly in several things I can suggest and would support with my votes: 1) to restrict how many LLCs a person can have. I really have no issue with either corporations or individuals owning houses to rent. I don’t see much difference between 2-4 incorporated companies owning almost every apartment complex in town vs a homeowner with 5 LLCs owning a bunch of houses they rent out. 2) every state should have lease rate increase caps. My son in Kansas just has his rent for very modest slightly run down 1 bdrm apartment go up 30%. He was informed of this 30 days before his lease is up. It’s nearly impossible to scrounge moving fees and get approved and find an affordable other apartment that quickly. I really think there should be a law that they can’t raise the lease by more 5-10% a year. It would certainly still hurt but these places even out here in the typically LCOL Midwest are blatantly price gauging renters. There are MANY people who do not want to buy a house. For lots of good reasons. Lack of job stability. No desire or budget to maintain a house. No desire to raise a family that needs much more space. But people do need somewhere to live. And it’s unreasonable to refuse to raise wages and social benefits while also complaining that the bottom half of the country can’t afford to live in the city they have to work in and instead of addressing any of that, employers kvetch that no one wants to work. i don’t know that I agree that Airbnb should have to do everything hotel chains do. What about bed&breakfast type places? But I do think that they should have zoning and tax regulations and some kind of human services regulation. They shouldn’t be a no man’s land of zero over sight. Can they be reported to the city for sanitation issues? Can someone renting from them report them same as a landlord for basic violations like plumbing issues? Stuff like that.

Biblical demolition equipment 😂

Off to look up the detectorists….

Att & first net down here too. Thankfully the home WiFi is still working just fine.

No problem. I’m not really up arguing anything. It was just casual convo for me that can go elsewhere. 🙂 Oh yeah. Um. None of the latest viewing for me is for anyone who wants to avoid suicide or blood scenes. I just finished Marry My His and last night. It ended well enough. I liked Perfect Marriage Revenge better, but I was surprised to enjoy both that are so similar but so different too.