Tiffany, Whether you need to supplement JAG really depends on what you are looking for. JAG is *not* a language arts curriculum; it is strictly grammar: no mechanics or usage. JAG will take you through all the parts of speech and 5 sentence patterns and will teach diagramming. If you are looking for more than that, you'll need to supplement.

Not Beth either, but we've completed Homer A, so I thought I'd offer my 2 cents. For what it's worth, and I say this reluctantly and only to offer a different perspective, I am a former University Composition instructor; I've also taught AP English and writing courses to a variety of grades (K-College). I'm also a published writer and a former editor/ghost writer. So, I think I'm pretty qualified to talk about the needs of modern writing and whether they can be adequately addressed in a program from antiquity. The short answer, Yes! And, how! Everytime I have taught writing, I noticed the same needs over and over: the need to read good models of writing, the need to analyze models, the need to learn to think and structure your thoughts logically, the need to express your thoughts eloquently as well as logically, and on and on. I can honestly say that every need I've ever found in teaching writing has been met in the Classical Writing program. As I delve into the later levels to see where things are headed, I am just blown away! Seriously. I'll give you an example: in every writing class I've taught, students have fallen into one of two categories: the student who takes 20 pages to say something that should have been said in one and the student who turns in a paragraph for a topic that could easily fill 20 pages. Every student fit into one of these categories: too wordy or not developed enough. Classical Writing solved this problem. First students take a paragraph and condense it into its most basic thought with as few words as possible. Then, they take a passage and expand it as large as they can. This is a brilliant exercise. And my son's writing has blossomed from just this one exercise (and CW has so many of these brilliant types of exercises that anticipate many typical writing problems). The condensing exercise is also very useful because I've had students who write very flowery yet say nothing. If you can condense a passage into its most basic parts, then it's easy to spot the lack of substance. Now, that's just one example. I could really gone on. I love this program. In a week of CW, a student covers literary analysis, logic, grammar, rhetoric, and oh yeah, writing too. :) The program is also extraordinarily flexible once you learn your way around. I recommend going through the core and taking notes to give yourself an overview. It really helps. I'd also like to comment on whether or not this type of writing instruction is artificial. Well, yes, just like riding a bike with training wheels is artificial or teaching math with manipulatives or even teaching phonics (the sounds of letters in isolation). There is a sense in which ALL teaching is artificial. But we don't stay there. The training wheels come off, the manipulatives disappear and we learn to read whole books without sounding out the words. We are building a foundation for higher level learning; but we shouldn't confuse the two. We shouldn't complain that the foundation is so foundational. As far as the time involved with CW, it is very flexible. Spend as little or as much time as you like. Don't let the workbook make you feel like you are behind. It's a tool; don't let it dictate the pace. We do a full lesson a week and have not found it burdensome at all, spending about 3.5 - 4 hours a week. Of course, I'm very comfortable tweaking. And having looked at Diogenes, I can see what areas are key skills that are built upon later and which ones aren't as necessary. So there you go, take it for what it's worth. Honestly, my opinion as a homeschool mom who has seen her son's writing blossom with CW is probably more valuable than my opinion as a professional. But if it makes anyone feel better, it's my professional opinion as well.

Janie, I've been listening to the Omnibus mp3s. I do think they are providing very good instruction. Some are general and explain the layout and overall philosophy of the program. Some are more detailed "how to teach" lectures and some are book specific: theme and issues in a work. I don't know anything about the Omnibus in a week program, but the mp3s are a great value for the training I've received. It's worth a shot.

Reya, You might be interested to know that the later levels of CW *do* include more modern writing. The models for the Diogenes level include: Ben Franklin, Joseph Addison, Richard Steele, and Winston Churchill.

Anyone else have any thoughts? I think MFW might be a good fit for her. It would allow the older high school students to work independently and would schedule out all the work for the youngers. She desperately needs a plan all laid out for her.

Thanks for all the great suggestions and things to consider. I wonder too if Sonlight would end up being too teacher-intensive for her right now. Anyone know anything about Bob Jones Homesat? She is thinking of that as well.

Thanks for the suggestions. I do like the look of it. My one concern was the publication sequence for High School. Do you know if the other volumes are in the works?

I've got a friend who's just given birth to her 6th child and the 5th child isn't even 2 yet! To make a long story short, she needs to go with something completely pick up and go for her children this next year. She is a Christian, so a Christian curriculum would be preferred. She needs something for two boys starting 9th grade. One is a voracious reader; the other more average. Then she's got one going into 4th, but whose reading skills are still developing, and a 6 year old who has been real hit or miss. There's been a lot going on in her life this year and homeschooling has not been consistent at all! She needs something that the older 2 can do mostly independently and that is all laid out for her. She doesn't want to have to think about what to do. She's also got the 2 babies. Husband works offshore so she needs help. Any suggestions? I was thinking of something like Covenant Home Curriculum for the high schoolers. I've had friends use this and like it. I also looked at MFW high school. Anyone use this? And maybe Sonlight for the middle 2. Could she combine them in the same core and just pick individual readers for them? Would Core One work with a struggling 9 year old? Or MFW for them too? I want to make suggestions that will simplify things. I need your help! Thanks for reading.

Veronica, Here are some sample chapters. http://www.pacworks.com/downloads.htm

I answered this on the K-8 Board. Here is the entire Henle Scope and Sequence from Memoria Press. http://www.memoriapress.com/articles/SampleLatinCurriculum.pdf

Here is the entire Henle scope and sequence from Memoria Press. http://www.memoriapress.com/articles/SampleLatinCurriculum.pdf

The primary emphasis of Omnibus is the study of ideas. So the focus is on the ideas and the worldview presented in a literary work and not necessarily the specific literary elements of the work. If you want to really understand what the purpose of Omnibus is and how you teach it and what it sets out to accomplish, then I would recommend downloading from www.wordmp3.com the lecture "Omnibus: The Basics" by Ty Fischer. It's a 5 buck download but really explains the program thoroughly. Here is the direct link: http://www.wordmp3.com/details.aspx?id=2962

I don't see anything here that is particularly Christian oriented. This guide is one of my favorites. It gets into the whole genre of Fairy Tales and what the recurring themes and archetypes are. You make a Venn Diagram to show the differences between a Grimm Fairy Tale and an Anderson Fairy Tale. Really good stuff. Flapbooks. There's a lot here. I think you'll enjoy it.

Just piggybacking onto what Debbie said. To understand the Big Picture of what Omnibus is trying to accomplish and how it was developed and how to use it, I highly recommend the lecture Omnibus the Basics by Ty Fischer. You can download this for 3 bucks from www.wordmp3.com. It really helped me to wrap my brain around the program.

I was going to post something, but Jami stated my position so much more eloquently than I was going to. I was going to ramble on about skills and how best to attain them and how best to apply them, but I'll just say, "Ditto!"

Classical Writing. We love it. I voted "Other" Sorry.

I spend 3.5 to 4 hrs a week on CW Homer with ds11. Aseop takes much less time with dd 9. Maybe 2 hours weekly. We do not do additional grammar. The program is very flexible however. Spend as much time as you have. Take 2 weeks to go through a model; there are only 20 models. Then spend only 2 hours weekly. I'm very comfortable skipping some parts some weeks. We make it work for us and I really like it.

There is a cd for Henle although MP doesn't sell it. I think Seton sells it. Another option is MP's new middle school Latin program, First Form Latin. Martin Cothran said that they hope to have it available this summer.

Jami, I've got no input. I just wanted to say that I like your new avatar! The sleeping bee... very funny. oh wait. I do have input. Have you seen some of the AO schedules from the yahoo group? They are set up like sonlight for the AO readings. Don't know if they are mac compatible though. Maybe you could use the template and then list your own readings. Just a thought. I've been thinking about Homeschool Tracker myself. I've been using Excel and wondering if it's worth learning a new program.

You've been given some great suggestions already. Might I add to list PG Wodehouse? His stories are hilarious and as George Grant says, Anyone who wants to learn how to write should read PG Wodehouse. He is a master! I heartily recommend any of the Jeeves stories. All of my dc (3-11) love Wodehouse. Of course, we read it complete with British accent and have a ball.

You can find these on the Memoria Press website. Click on Latina Christiana, and you'll see the link.

AAHH! You're killing me! :ack2: I wrote my thesis on Mill on the Floss and it still remains one of my favorites. Why do you consider it "anger-inducing"?

Here's a link that should answer the first question. It's an article from Memoria Press on how to conduct a Latin Recitation. http://www.memoriapress.com/articles/Latin-Recitation.html

Moira, Thanks so much. YOu've been really helpful. I've been listening to some sample lectures I got at a conference. I really like what I'm hearing. Thanks for giving me an estimate of the time involved. I was just trying to get an idea if I'd still be able to fit in the other subjects I was planning or if something would get squeezed out. I will probably go ahead and get one set early so I can really look at it closely. thanks again

IEW is no longer selling the Imitation in Writing Series (except for Poetry). They've got their own products out now. You can view samples and purchase IW at http://www.logosschool.com