I just received my new catalog and newsletter from IEW and thought that some of you might be interested in their new products. Two in particular stand out: 1. Classical Rhetoric through Structure and Style: Writing Lessons Based on the Progymnasmata. This program combines 9 of the progymnasma with the nine units of IEW. IT's not the complete progymnasmata, but it might be worth checking out. 2. Windows to the World: An Introduction to Literary Analysis. This teaches literary analysis with the IEW approach. Looks interesting. Fuller descriptions of these are in the newsletter which is available on the website I believe. There are also several new and revised versions of their thematic writing lessons too.

Thanks. That's great advice. I was feeling some anxiety about how long it's taking us to get through RS D, but I felt like my dd needed more time cementing subtraction before moving onto multiplication. Thanks for the reassurance.

Wendy, There we go again...

It really depends what your goals are. MP has a scope and sequence on their website. They do Myths (3rd grade); FMof Rome (4th), FMof MA (5th) and FMofG (6th). They prefer to hold off on the more difficult concepts of the Greeks until 6th grade. However, I read FMOG to my 5th and 3rd grader and they have really enjoyed it. I think you could use it earlier if you wanted to go strictly chronological. We did Myths and FMOG in one year.

I think that you could keep the 8,7,7 together, but I would let the 10 year old move ahead. I have an 11 in LC2 and a just-turned-9 in LC 1. The ability to grasp the language is markedly stronger in the 11 year old. You could keep them together but here's the risk you run: the older child will move too slow and be bored and lose interest; or the youngers will feel frustrated because they don't get it as quickly as the older. For encouragement, I will say that my older child worked through LC1 when he was 10 almost independently. One day a week I taught the lesson and the rest of the week he worked in Ludere Latine and in the LC workbook and reviewed his flashcards. The youngers will need more repetition and hand-holding in LC1. My dd9 (8 when she started) needed lots of help and I had to sit with her and talk her through the exercises. Now that she's 9 and has half of LC1 under her belt, she can do it independently. I teach the lesson and then she works the rest of the week on her own. I say all that to point out that you won't really lose anything timewise to have them in different Latin classes. Another possibility is to use the dvds if you need the extra help to manage them all. Just be sure to check all written work to make sure they that are mastering the material. You can keep them all together for daily Latin Recitation time and then separate them after that. That was one of my main motivations for separating my dc. I didn't want the younger, who is naturally a perfectionist, to feel discouraged and frustrated because she wasn't getting it as quickly as her older brother. Hope that helps.

Oh please do. If you get a chance to look at the Math 4, I'd love to hear what you think.

CW Homer is a lot of work, so I would try to streamline as much as possible. There is a vocabulary element of CW; spelling is included as well, sort of. If your child struggles with spelling you may want a separate spelling program, but I'd skip the separate vocabulary program.

I suppose I would agree, but there are some good things in D and E. Sometimes it's hard to tell because RS builds on these concepts so slowly, introducing a certain type of thinking in a warm-up and then building on it for several lessons before officially teaching it. I like that. I'm not far enough into D to be sure, but so far I like the way that D presents multiplication. Haven't gotten to division yet. I need to look ahead. I went through E with my ds and loved, loved how RS did fractions. It was brilliant, and I definitely want to do that again. Division was presented very well for my son. To tell the truth, he got it and continues doing it the RS way in his CLE book, but I never really got it. I'll have to look at it again. He picked it up first and was ready to move on, so I never learned it myself. My dd is different from her brother and a more traditional approach may work better for her. She didn't like using the abacus. NOt sure. THey both really like making constructions in RS. They think that's fun. Dd is doing well with CLE and I think that that format might work better for her. Small increments reviewed heavily. I could just teach fractions the RS way when it comes up.

No, I haven't done any testing. And I'm trying to decide the same thing. The revised BJU editions do look tempting. Unfortunately for us, we are a year ahead of the revisions. Have you seen the books yourself? I'm wondering how teacher intensive it is. I had read that it takes a long time to teach a lesson. If that's the case, I'll just continue with what I'm doing. RS is pretty teacher intensive too.

Talk about Great Minds... I'm considering switching to BJ next year too for the same reason. I'm tired of coordinating so many different books. But I still really like CLE so I'm undecided what to do. My ds 11 is finishing up RS Geometry and CLE 5; I'm moving him into BJU Math 7 for 6th grade. I wanted to catch any gaps before ALgebra. It's dd 9 that I'm undecided about. Can't decide if I want to continue with E and supplement with CLE or go into BJU Math 4. If Math 4 was revised, I'd probably make the switch, but the current edition would have me using multiple books to get that spiral review I want. And I've got one starting RS A in 2 years. Let me know what you decide.

Sure, Melissa. No problem. The pronunciation cd would be nice if you are unsure how to pronounce the words. I know some people really like the dvds and that's an option that I recommend to people who are terribly intimidated by Latin and want some serious hand-holding. But I don't think they are absolutely necessary. I've never seen them, but the Teacher's Manual is very easy to use. Prima Latin is a very gentle introduction. It doesn't really get into anything difficult: 5 vocab words a week. Parts of Speech. Why don't you get the TM and see if you think you can do it without the DVDs. I like to save money.

My dd had the same problem in RS C. She needed more practice with subtraction. I confess that I didn't play the games. I felt like she needed some spiral review to keep things fresh. We added CLE 2 workbooks. They are cheap and I went through the books and marked out with a red pen which ones I wanted her to do. There was no need to attempt 2 complete math programs. I like the RS way of doing things. I just wanted more review of concepts we'd already covered. So she spends 15-20 minutes daily in her CLE workbook. She works the problems I've marked for her and then I check it. She is getting a lot better. We continued this practice into RS D supplementing with CLE 3. It's been working really well. Let me emphasize that she doesn't do all the problems. Only the ones that have already been covered in RS and only the ones I think she needs extra work on. I throw in the word problems too. This past week I finally started playing the games and I could see the benefit immediately. So I would recommend adding in a spiral workbook and selectively using it for extra practice and play the games for fact review. Oh, I also started using Calculadder drills the second half of RS C. That helped too.

I love Prima Latina. I've used with 2 of my own children and taught it to a Co-op class of Second Graders. It's very easy to implement and a very gentle introduction to Latin and parts of Speech. It includes vocabulary, prayers, a hymm (I think), Latin Sayings, some conversation, and at the end a few grammar forms. I've done the course with the writing and I've done it orally. Oral is my preference when using it at home. YOu could do Prima this year and go into Lively Latin next year. I prefer to start a more grammar intensive program in third grade. I've taught through the whole Latina Christiana series several times. Let me know if you have any other questions. One more thing. If time is a factor, you could easily do Prima Latina one day a week and then review the vocabulary during your memory time each day. Doesn't get much easier than that. And if you do it orally, you only really need the Teacher's Manual. Get the student workbook only if you want your child to write. The Teacher's Manual includes all the student pages so it's really all you need.

Let me second that suggestion. I taught High School and College Literature and we did lots of timed essays. I even taught classes on how to effectively write an in-class timed essay. When I've taught formerly homeschooled kids, that was one of the areas that they were weak in. They were generally given as much time as needed for assignments at home. It was sometimes tough to get them to think about the clock when doing an assignment. It's a skill for sure. I wouldn't worry about introducing in-class essays before High School, but I would keep an eye on the clock when they are doing other assignments. Learning to manage time is an important skill and quite critical for success in college.

You can purchase French Prep--I think, I know they carry Galore Park materials--from bookdepository.co.uk. It's free shipping worldwide. I purchased them from Horrible Books, but I'm in the states. Bookdepository might be your best bet.

Janice, I haven't seen it myself, but I have a friend who used it with her children, in the days way before CW. She liked it a lot. Her daughter was a natural writer though.

Yes, Alex. Lively Latin is a systematic grammar approach. It's just presented in such a way that is very approachable by younger children. My older children have gone through the Latina Christiana series and Minimus and some Cambridge, but I have not ruled out Lively Latin for my youngest when she gets there. It's a new program, but people seem to be very impressed with it. I've been very pleased with Latina Christiana and it's systematic grammar approach, but I wouldn't recommend LC1 to a student under 3rd grade.

Okay, That helps a lot. From what you describe, I'd say that Lively Latin would be a good fit. There are several people on here using it with a younger child and they are really enjoying it. You can see samples online. The book is engaging, fun, grammar intensive, and includes Roman History and Art Study among other things. The only negative is that it's an ebook and would have to be printed out. If you like the idea of following a Roman family, Cambridge Latin and Lingua Latina both do that. You could supplement or switch over to those after Lively Latin. Plaid Dad is moving his young daughter into Lingua Latina after completing Lively Latin. The thing to remember about Lingua Latina is that it takes some commitment and effort on the part of the teacher to learn ahead of the student, but it certainly seems to be very effective in teaching Latin reading. A just-turned-8 child is still very young for real intensive grammar and that's one of the reasons I suggest Lively Latin. It seems to be the most useable by a younger child. Good luck.

If all you are looking for is a spine, then how about Geurber's Story of the Middle Ages and THe Story of the Renaissance and Reformation. I think these would be great for 7th grade and you can fill in with the other books that you've already picked out. If you are looking for a little more, consider Truthquest Middle Ages. It schedules the Geurber books and will give you commentary for discussion as well. These are not expensive at all.

I read the post as Omnibus versus Story of the Ancient World by SWB. Sorry. If you are talking about elementary history, then I second what OhElizabeth said.

Alex, What are your goals for Latin? That will make a big difference in what I recommend. If you know what your goals are and what you are planning to get to in High School, you can choose an elementary curriculum that feeds into the High School program you like. But, just to get you thinking: do you want to continue with the inductive approach of Minimus? Then you may want to consider Cambridge Latin (which is the follow up for Minimus) or Lingua Latina. Or if you are looking for a more traditional grammar approach, consider Latina Christiana, Latin for Children, Lively Latin, or Latin Prep--depending on the age of your child. Do you want ecclesiastical or classical pronunciation? Is the inclusion of Christian elements important to you? Etc. There's lots to consider. For me, we use Latina Christiana because I like their philosophy and their program has a proven track record. The program feeds into Henle, which is what I want to use for my High School Latin readings. I want the Church Fathers as well as the Classical Authors. Henle fits the bill for us. However, there are lots of nice things about Cambridge Latin as well and I supplement Latina Christiana with Cambridge for practice in reading. I've found the 2 to complement each other nicely. Oh, and you will find people on this board that use every one of the programs I mentioned. You'll get lots of different recommendations. Everyone has their favorite. That's why I suggest you figure out what your particular goals are. That will really narrow down your choices. Hope that helps.

You're much more likely to get responses on the High School Board. Try there.

Well, here's my 2 cents, Wendy. It seems we travel in similar circles. When my ds was entering 4th grade, I decided to ditch Saxon (we were in 54) because I just didn't see the lightbulb going on for him. He was like a trained monkey when working those problems; he had very poor understanding of why he was doing anything. I went to a workshop on RightStart and was sold. We did the transition lessons and I saw that light bulb come on finally. We then did RSE and we both loved it. I know that some have complained about levels D and E being weaker than the other levels, but I had never seen the other levels and I liked what was in RS E. I love the way fractions and division are taught. My son blows me away with his understanding now. We liked the whole thing so much that he is now doing RS Geometry and I'm supplementing with a few workbooks, including the Key to Series. So, I agree with OhE. If you like what you see, keep at it. My dd has completed RS C and is in RSD now. I heard all the complaints and thought seriously about jumping ship, but finally I realized that she was doing well. I was seeing improvement and advances in math. She likes it. So forward we go.

Yeah, that's sort of what happens. Shakespeare gets lumped into the card for Renaissance. I can't remember if he's mentioned in the song or not. He may be. I would say that they do still cover most of what you'd expect, but no Shakespeare was a blow to me. He deserves his own card! But I do understand why they did it and I appreciate the Church History that is presented. Of all the VP History years, most people find this one the most difficult. Get a good spine like Famous Men MA/RR to flush it out. It can still be fun and I enjoyed teaching MARR in a school.

Rhonda, I'll do my best here in the few minutes I have. What I'm talking about is not so far from what you are describing. I've been very influenced by the work of the Circe Institute and you'll find that they really flush these ideas out. Circe defines education as the cultivation of wisdom and virtue by nourishing our souls on truth, beauty, and goodness. So, we read great literature, listen to beautiful music, surround ourselves with art and the beauty of the Creation, etc etc. But these things are not an end unto themselves. They point us to something greater. I'll try to give some concrete examples so that you can see the kinds of things I'm talking about. Admittedly, these are my aims and I fall short, but this is the direction that I am trying to more and more deliberately move us toward. So, for example take the study of Latin. I am a Latin-centered homeschool and I want to teach Latin for all the reasons that you generally hear. How do I use that to cultivate wisdom and virtue? Well, I'm still learning, but some ways would be that to master Latin takes an excellent work ethic and perseverance. Learning the language and reading the literature of the Romans can lead to wisdom as we learn about their culture and compare it to our own and hold it up to the light of Scripture. And let's say that I'm teaching the Iliad. My concern here is not to master the characters and to learn the literary techniques that Homer employs--although I might include that if I could figure out how to use those to my own end, but not as an end unto itself. My real concern is the central question of the work: Is Achilles justified in his anger? That is the real point of this work. Well you can see how that could lend itself to a cultivation of wisdom and virtue. How does a virtuous man respond to a slight? What is the role of vengeance? What happens when a man is led by anger? What are the consequences to himself and to other people? Is this wise, virtuous? What makes us angry? How should we respond? If being dishonored is the worst that can happen to a man (which is what the Greeks thought), where does that lead a culture? What does God say about this? Why does HOmer present Achilles as achieving great glory and honor, but essentially as a hopeless figure? Where does our hope come from? These are just a few things off the top of my head. But the idea is that as I and my children read these works and wrestle with these very timely questions, that we will move toward virtue and wisdom. The same can be said about any subject that we use as the launching off point for our discussion of wisdom and virtue. If I was more knowledgeable about Math, I'm sure I could use Math to cultivate wisdom and virtue. Even in my limited capacity, I still attempt to instill a work ethic and a habit of perseverance and a love of learning. I'm genuinely excited when I see math in a way I never saw it before. And the way numbers relate to each other truly points to the glory and magnificence of our Creator. It really has to do with what the end goal is. I'm not suggesting anything other than rigorous academics; I'm simply stating that academic rigor is not my end goal, it is the means by which I hope to achieve much more. My 3 year old is demanding a snack. I'll try to elaborate more if you need me to. I highly recommend the work of the Circe Institute is you are interested in learning more about all this.