Melissa, I think you misunderstand me. As I have said (for the third time now), I have absolutely no problem with someone deciding that the theology in Omnibus is not for them. Nor, do I expect anyone to necessarily agree with Omnibus. My issue was that a quote was given without any context. A quote that I feared gave the wrong impression about Omnibus. And a quote that the poster later admitted was not a direct quote but was rather her impression about the theology. There is a big difference there. Again, I have no problem at all with theological disagreements. Nor do I take offense when others do not hold my theological views. However, I am sensitive--as anyone would be--to feeling like my theology is being misrepresented. And I stand by what I said. If someone if going to disagree with Reformed theology, they should at least understand what it is they disagree with and be careful not to misrepresent it. If I were to state some incorrect things about Dispensationalism (the opposite of Reformed theology), I would certainly expect to be corrected. Nor would I take offense if someone did correct. My desire here is for truth and unity among believers, not to be "right." If indeed VP is not for you, I've got no problem with that. I wish the best for you in your homeschooling endeavors. I just wanted to make sure that others weren't misled about the theology in the program.

Okay Karen, I hope some of these ideas are helpful to you. When I was a classroom teacher, I discovered the benefits of doing literary study out loud. Even with my high schoolers, I got much better results and was able to assign more difficult works when we read them out loud. I would read out loud, stopping to explain difficult/archaic vocabulary or to point out something important. Then at natural stopping points, I would engage them in discussion. Later, after the book was completed, I would give writing assignments. I had much greater success doing it that way, rather than assigning the reading, expecting them to understand what they read and come prepared to discuss. I would spend so much time making sure that they understood what they read, that we would never get any real discussion. Reading out loud changed all that. When I later moved to teaching elementary, I kept up the practice. It continued to work well and to allow me to assign more difficult works than they could read on their own. In our homeschool, I have continued the practice. I started out trying to do 2 different literature classes, but it was way too time-consuming so I switched to one combined class. I read the book out loud and we discuss. For elementary, I have limited goals for literature study: (1)fill them up with good stories, (2) learn to think about what they are reading, particularly the worldview, (3) introduce very gentle literary analysis: basically plot, character, setting, theme. That's it. We read out loud. Different years I've tried different things. Sometimes, I have a book for each of us and we team-read out loud; other times I read the whole thing out loud. We discuss as described above. I don't assign anything generally. If they can discuss the book with me, that's all I expect. We use CW, so I don't really feel the need to "write across the curriculum" in elementary school. They do have independent reading selections. These are generally at or below their reading level (as opposed to the Studied Literature, which is well above their reading level), read completely independently. Sometimes there are narrations, sometimes not. Just depends. Last year, I required a Book Report a month. This year, I may do 1 per quarter. That's more reasonable. A book report can be a written narration or something about setting or character. I have some specific things that I'm looking for. I don't really assign the independent reading. I have a very long designated shelf and book basket filled with books correlated to history. They chose which they are interested in. They also chose a Free Book (from any genre) to read and a Book Report book that is approved by me. In addition, they are big readers on their own. Their free reading is entirely unrestricted. We are CM-influenced that way. They generally have several books going at once. Our literature approach is really low-stress, but I feel like the benefits are tremendous, and I'm very pleased with the level of discussion. I don't use literature guides, relying instead on Aristotle's Common Topics that were discussed at Circe. We use Socratic discussion so my questions can be applied to any book. Of course, I also have lots of experience teaching literature and I'm pretty good off the cuff, so YMMV. Use lit guides if they give you confidence or try something like Teaching the Classics. Seems like a lot of people like that course and it is the same basic idea that I use. Does that answer your question?

Sure, I can get you a source for that. I'll email my pastor. I got it from him. As far as the PCUSA. They are the very liberal branch of Presbyterianism and are a distinct and completely different denomination; they have very little/nothing in common with the PCA. I'm not surprised to hear that they've given up on missions. I've had this conversations with others and I'm always surprised to find that people equate Covenant Theology/Reformed teaching with a lack of missions or a lack of love for the lost. I've been Reformed for 25 years and all the Reformed folks I know take the Great Commission very seriously. I personally know missionaries doing amazing work in many different countries and they are all very Reformed in theology. This is a misconception that I really want to clear up. All Christians--Reformed or not--are called to "make disciples of the nations." I think that this is an area we can have a lot of unity on. ETA: Yes, I know of the Christian and Missionary Alliance. And I even own a few A.W. Tozer books :D.

Jennifer, I'm afraid you took my comments as some kind of personal attack. I tried to be quite clear that I didn't find you mean-spirited and I also said that I had no problem with you deciding that the theology presented in Omnibus didn't meet your needs. I've still got no problem with that. And you also seem to misunderstand my complaint. You gave a quote without any context; a quote which leaves the (misguided and wrong) impression that Omnibus teaches that God loves the Church exclusively. This is simply incorrect. I have my Omnibus I right here in my lap. I've also been speaking online with other users of Omnibus I and frankly they say they don't know what you are talking about, that they have never seen Scripture altered in any Omnibus book. Again, you are correct to reject books that don't line up with your theology. I don't disagree. I just think we need to be very careful about giving out single, isolated quotes that can mislead. I understand that you are concerned about what you call Replacement Theology. Reformed folk call this Covenant Theology, and it is simply incorrect to imply that Covenant Theology teaches that God loves the Church exclusively. It is simply not true. I'm happy to explain this in more detail, but it is probably not appropriate for this thread. Again, sorry that you took it personally. We can agree to disagree. ETA: I am in contact with an Omnibus teacher from Veritas Academy. He is going to talk to the editor of Omnibus to find out if that quote actually exists and if it does, what the context is. We shall get to the bottom of this yet.

Now see, this is the problem with taking things out of context. And boy does that happen a lot to us Reformed folk. I mean that lightheartedly, ok. I've read lots of Reformed theology and my dad studied theology under Greg Bahnsen--if you are Reformed you know that's a big deal. I've also read lots of Doug Wilson and over and over I see this same sort of thing happening to him. He presents an argument about something to try to get us to think in a new way, and then someone takes a portion of that fuller argument and quotes it, giving an entirely different spin. I'm not saying that it is intentional or mean-spirited. I didn't get that from the poster at all. She said that the theology didn't jive with what she believe and hey that's fine. I've got no problem with that. But now we've got this highly suggestive and provocative quote with absolutely no context to explain, and people start getting worried. I would say, assume the best. I haven't read the particular passage in question, but I've read enough of this type of thing to have a pretty good idea what was meant. Most likely, the author of the quote was trying to make a point, to get us to think in a new way. I can assure you without any doubt that Doug Wilson, et al., do not think that God loves only the church. As a matter of fact, the Reformed church sends more missionaries worldwide than any other denomination. We care about missions! But, certainly, if God loves the whole world then that would include the church, would it not? Again, I haven't read the entire context, and that's why I won't assume the worst possible spin on that quote. Those Omnibus essays are long, 16-20 pages. It's very easy to pull out quotes that sound scary, but aren't really if you have followed the whole argument.

Karen, I just saw your question. I've been without a computer today. But the good news is that I've got tons more memory now! woohoo! I'll try to answer you after the dinner rush:D

Have you checked out this placement chart?

Yes, I've used Streams with 9th and 10th graders before. Doing both volumes in one year can be done, and it will provide a nice survey. It won't leave you much time for other reading to flesh out the course though. I guess it just depends on what you are looking for.

Here's our list of books that we will be formally studying. It does not any include independent reading.

That's right, Jami. He said that it's all finished. He expected it to go to print by Aug. 15, with a ship date of Sept. 1. I do wish they'd put some info up. I am so anxious about this! Oh, and he said that First Form will review all the grammar from LC1 and 2 with more translation work. He said it will be amped up from LC but not as much as Henle. Lisaj, it sounds like First Form would be a perfect fit for your situation. I'm really excited about it.

Oh rats! I knew I was forgetting something. I left Norms and Nobility off! I'm going back and editing my list!:D

The top 3 picks that have shaped our homeschool are : The Original Homeschooling Series by Charlotte Mason, The Latin-Centered Curriculum, and When You Rise Up by RC Sproul Jr. This last title convicted me of my academic pride and reminded that Character-training needed to be an essential part of homeschooling. I've also been greatly influenced by the work of the Circe Institute, but that's mostly lectures, not books. I can't believe I forgot Norms and Nobility. Throw that in there too.

Melody, I just posted a long blog entry about how I teach spelling. You might find it helpful.

Our 2008-2009 Curriculum is posted on the side bar of my blog. We start in 2 weeks! And we are excited!

I've finally got a blog up and running. I plan on doing Weekly Reports once we start school Aug. 18.

They are folded in fourths (if I remember correctly) and are protected by cardboard. Hope that helps!

You know, that is EXACTLY what my son likes about LC too. I think he can handle Henle, but given a choice, he would rather have a predictable weekly routine. That is one of the reasons I am so eager for this program.

How about the Redwall series? There are tons of these and very likely in your library. They are Medieval adventure stories about animals. My son has really enjoyed them.

bump. Am I the only one excited about this news? Anyone?

I've used both. Classical Composition teaches the progymnasmata and incorporates figures of description in each level, rather than treating them as a separate level. It is primarily directed to classroom teachers and offers very little help for teaching the material. The first 2 levels are pretty easy to teach, but by the third level, I was confused about what I was supposed to be accomplishing. I then switched to CW. CW is so much richer and fuller and more in depth. It is difficult to describe. The more time I spend learning the program, the more impressed I am. It incorporates so much more than writing exercises: literary analysis, vocabulary analysis, grammar (I skip this), rhetoric, logic, and on and on. It can be overwhelming but that is because there is so much depth to the program. I much prefer it to CLassical Composition.

Me too! I agree with everything Jami said! It was fabulous. The deliberate intimate atmosphere was quite different from any conference I've attended before. A highlight for me was hanging out in the hotel bar with some of the speakers until the wee hours of the morn (I'll protect their anonymity. lol) Seriously, meeting people and having discussions between sessions was one of the best parts of the whole conference. As Jami said, we met Karensk, who was really sweet. We also met Leah--which was a real treat. I had a great time laughing with her. And yes, Martin Cothran was a real highlight too. His talk on Hard Times was great and he was a very charming, funny man too. I really liked seeing the "less stuffy" side of classical education, if you know what I mean. The theme was humor and laughter abounded!

Momof7, I've got French Prep and First French. Any ideas on using these resources for a 6th and 4th grader. I'm hoping to teach them together. (I started French Prep last year and really liked it. We ended up taking an extended break from it because of other circumstances. I'm ready to start up again in a few weeks, but I was recently given some copies of First French). I'd appreciate any thoughts on making the best use of what I've got. Thanks.

According to the scope and sequence on the Memoria Press website, First Form (and its sequels, Second, Third and Fourth Form Latin) will follow Latina Christiana 2 and will replace Henle I. AFter completing Fourth Form Latin, a student would go into Henle 2 (which is Caesar). I haven't seen the books, but I was told by Martin Cothran that First Form was grammar and translation heavy, but not as heavy as Henle. First Form will also review all the grammar from LC1 and LC2 making it a good book for a middle school student taking Latin for the first time. I believe that the recommended grade is 6th grade if you've followed the MP Latin sequence. I can see this book being perfect for a first-time Latin student in 7th or 8th grade who doesn't want to tackle Henle but who is way too old for LC. I'm really excited about the book and can't wait to see what kinds of translation work they've included. There is also an online class available for First Form as well. Hope that helps.

There had been some discussion a few weeks back about First Form Latin, Memoria Press's new middle school Latin program. I just returned from the Circe conference--which was amazing and I got to meet some ladies from this board!--and I picked up some info about happenings at Memoria Press. First Form Latin is completed and will head to the printer by August 15 and will likely be available for purchase by Sept. 1. I also learned that Martin Cothran is currently writing First Logic, a new middle school logic program to precede Traditional Logic. No word on when that will be completed, but it is an exciting prospect.

YOu may also want to look into First Form Latin, Memoria Press' new middle school Latin program. It'll be heading to the printer in August and will likely be available for purchase Sept. 1. Hopefully, the website will have some samples up soon. This is what I'll be using with my 6th grader this year--in lieu of Henle.