yes, they are all retellings. They are not so much levels as different themes/topics of retellings: Myths, Legends, Fairy Tales, etc. When WT3 comes out that may be a more pick up and go version of Homer, but nothing comes to mind right now. HTH

Yes, Jami, I have used both :) Imitation in Writing covers the Fable and Narrative of the Prog. It includes a little vocabulary work, outlining, and retelling. It is very pick up and go. No planning. I had one child do Imitation in WRiting and then move into CW Homer in 5th grade. My second child did Imitation in Writing and then moved into Aesop B in 4th grade. Imitation has a lot of similarities to Aesop, but not too much in common with Homer. Homer includes a lot of analysis and arrangement and style exercises. IW is simply retellings. I like IW, and my son didn't have any problems going from IW to Homer. That's it in a nutshell. Any other questions? ETA: IW is a gentle start to writing, but not a complete writing program in itself. You would have to move into something else like CW Homer or IEW or Lost Tools of Writing at some point. But, yes, it's a great program to get a couple of years of gentle writing in; very easy to use; not too time-consuming.

It might not be the flashiest program on the market, but the Latina Christiana series gets the job done. My ds12 is cruising through Henle after his foundation in Pl, LC1,and LC2.

Memoria Press' Traditional Logic.

Here's what I've got planned for next year so far: Omnibus I / Streams of Civilization I CW Diogenes/Poetry B Henle Latin units 3-5 French Prep 2 (if we complete vol. 1) finish BJU Math 7 and start LOF decimals and fractions (pre-algebra) Fallacy Detective Earth Science/ Geography that I put together myself AO schedule for Shakespeare and art and music and poetry, etc. Swim Team

If you follow the AO schedule, they've got them arranged that way already. They recommend starting with Poplicola for your first Life.

Have you looked at the sample Plutarch schedules on AO? There is also a dowloadable study guide on AO. I just follow their schedule and read from the study guide.

Classical Writing has a great series on analyzing and writing poetry. We are about to get started with it and it looks great. Another option is the Grammar of Poetry by Matt Whitling. Both of these are shorter studies that don't last a full year. You could take a break from your regular composition or lit class to do a unit on Poetry. The Classical WRiting Poetry program has courses for Beginner, Intermediate, and Advanced (which will include analyzing Dante and Spencer and Shakespeare.) The English major in me gets very excited about these courses.

Yeah, I'd say it was about halfway through Homer A that I got my bearings. Reading the core and taking notes on each skill level helped to see the big picture and find my groove. We completed Homer B without using the workbook. We'll start CW Poetry next week and we are all looking forward to that.

We don't start Diogenes until next Fall, but I have been looking through it. The workload seems much less intense! I can't wait to start it.

How about David (from David and Goliath), and Joan of Arc.

The first MP study guide contains an answer key, so you can hold off on that awhile. My understanding is that MP expects that after going through their study guides, it will be pretty easy to finish up on your own. I think you can find additional syllabi at Mother of Divine Grace (these are geared towards High School and move faster than MP) We are in Henle I this year with the MP Guide, and my ds is really enjoying it. Perfect for a 6th grader. Click here to see MP's suggested Henle sequence.

For a ten year old, you could add in the Famous Men series or the Guerber history series. Memoria Press has some great workbooks that go with the Famous Men series that would challenge a 10 year old. Great questions, map work, activities, etc. It's a biographical approach. You could still use KHE for an overview and use Famous Men to flush out the topic.

You've gotten lots of great advice. I'm agreeing that you've got a couple of different issues here. 1. You can't force the "connections." This is a developmental issue. The light bulb will come on when it is ready, and trying to force the issue only frustrates everyone. 2. KHE isn't the kind of book that will foster connections. That comes from more narrative accounts: biographies, narrative spines, historical fiction. For my logic stage ds, those lightbulb moments come when he has been reading on his own. I'll read something aloud, and he'll make a connection to something he has read elsewhere. I don't think SWB expects the connections to come from KHE, but rather from the other history reading (both secondary and primary) that she recommends. Be patient. The difference between my ds12 and dd 9.5 is tremendous. He is all about connections and analysis and she is just not there yet. She's bright; she's engaged by the material; she reads. She just doesn't think at that level yet. But it's coming. Try not to be discouraged.

You know, this is exactly what I thought too. So, I started with Classical Composition. Then, when I actually saw Classical Writing, I realized that there was so much more to it than CC; so much more analysis and thinking and style. I skip all the grammar and spelling, and let me tell there is still enough there for a very full week of CW! I wouldn't rule it out because you don't want the grammar and spelling. There is so much more to the program. You can view some of my CW lesson plans for Aesop and Homer B to see how a week without the grammar and spelling looks like.

I'm in the blog roll as well. I took a blog break in December, but I'll be cranking up again soon. Link in signature.

You heard that from Ty Fischer's Veritas Omnibus teacher training mp3s.

My dd takes private piano lessons and Irish Dance classes. My ds in on a swim team and a basketball team. However, once they hit high school, online classes, etc. might be something we use. Right now, my oldest is working through Henle Latin. Once he completes the Latin grammar (9th grade) and begins straight translation courses, I may put him in an online class. It takes a lot of work and time to grade those translations and I have 2 other children!

I voted "other." We combine LCC and CM, as well as a heathly dose of CiRCE--which itself is a combo of LCC and CM.

Here's how our week plays out: Monday: Day One analysis and Outline. This is the most teacher-intensive day, but also a very rewarding day. We do a great bit of it orally--almost all oral. We enjoy this discussion, and my ds has regularly applied whatever literary analysis we've learned to our Literature Studies. Homer B in particular amps up the Literary Analysis. Tuesday: Light day on analysis. We do the Simply Spelling exercises here and I blend in a few CW topics like alphabetizing. But it's light. We do the draft on Day 2. Generally he finishes it in the allotted hour. Sometimes it goes into Day 3. Wednesday: We edit together and do the Six-Sentence Shuffle. Now, I've tweaked the SSS. I take sentences from his rough draft and we go through the 6 steps. We discuss the changes. At this point, he's got lots of changes to chose from for his final draft. I've found that using his own writing, has helped him tremendously in editing. He begins the paraphrase on this day. Often finishing it; if not, he completes it the next day. Thursday: Lightest Day. Recopy Final Draft and do the Dictation for Simply Spelling. Yes, the copywork and dictation could be considered busywork and could be dropped. I'm teaching spelling through Studied Dictation so we include it but use a different model. The idea behind the copywork is that you are imitating at a basic level good writing. In Diogenes, the copywork is replaced by a Commonplace book. We skip the copywork as well. If a week is really tight, I skip recopying the Final Draft. That gives us a whole other day for writing. There are so many skills being developed in HOmer, but not all of them systematically build on one another. I was determined not to let Homer be over-burdensome. Diogenes is a breeze compared to Homer. Really. Again, you've probably heard me say this elsewhere, but going through the Core and taking notes by Skill Level. Basically rearranging the core. I was able to see the Big Picture and how skills build on one another, or don't. And if you have a really really tight week, you can do the analysis, and use the paraphrase as the writing assignment. I've done this as well when I'm in a bind. You would have completed the outline on Day One--and therefore have gotten the practice at arrangement. I really do think that the program can be quite flexible. And reading the Core, I think that is what the authors intend. The workbook has helped a lot of people and made the program more accessible, but at the same time it can make us feel like we've got to do it all.

Elizabeth, You can see my weekly lesson plans for Homer Skill Level 6 here. I did not use the workbook. The workbook is helpful, but can also make you feel like you've got to do everything and follow their pace. I just used the core to make my own lesson plans, spending as much time on each skill as we needed for mastery, which is what the makers of CW envisioned. I also skip the grammar--covering it through Latin and grammar units in the summer. Occasionally I teach a grammar concept on the spot if it is needed for a Six Sentence Shuffle, for example. So far so good. We've completed Homer A and B. I love Homer, and I'm happy to answer any questions.

Great question. This is precisely where I am. We will be starting Omnibus next fall, but like you, I am LCC/CM in my approach as well. So, I am tweaking Omnibus. Slowing down and covering fewer works. I think that when making these decisions we must consider the abilities of each child and teacher. What may be a dizzying, packed overwhelming year to one student, might be just right for another. And what is a good. slow deep pace for one might be too light for others. I also think it is possible to combine both approaches. As someone else mentioned, independent reading and summer reading is a good way to achieve that breadth and exposure, while devoting classtime to a deeper study. We are planning on studying the Omnibus primary readings together and outloud, slowing down, covering fewer works, and experimenting until we find our groove. The easier secondary readings will be on his own. For Omnibus I, that is primarily the Narnia books, which he has read before. So, he'll reread them and we'll have worldview/omnibus discussions. Another way to combine the principles of LCC and Omnibus is that some works are read twice in Omnibus. Once in the Logic cycle and once in their Rhetoric cycle. Theoretically at least reading a book twice at different levels of maturity is one way to study a book deeply. Again, I think a lot depends on the individual student and teacher--and that's a great luxury we homeschoolers have. As a former high school/AP and college literature teacher, (while I embrace the principles of LCC), I feel that Drew's pace is too slow. I think that I can go deeply into a work and still cover more books than he recommends. Personally, I would be bored to tears only covering 3 books in a year. But for someone else, that might be the perfect course load. What's great to me about LCC is the underlying principles of a Deep Education. The exact number of works that can be covered while achieving depth will vary with each student and teacher. just a few thoughts. I've had this on my mind a lot lately as I work on our Omnibus reading list for next year.

Jessica, There is an active Veritas Press Yahoo Group. You'll find several people using the VP Scholar's lesson plans and you can ask questions there. Hope that helps.

In this case, no. The clause "that had lost" is specifying which cock and is therefore not set off by commas. The rule is if the clause" cannot be omitted without altering the meaning of the main clause--it should not be set off by commas. If it is nonrestrictive, it should be set off by commas." From the Chicago Manual of Style. Ex: The man who had introduced us to Babs was waving approaching our table. Arthur, who had introduced us to Babs, waved from across the piazza. Does that help?

Shall I be the one to cause trouble on this thread? I was an editor for a publishing house for years, and one thing I learned is that there are rarely any hard and fast rules for comma usage. A great deal depends on what type of writing it is. I can hand you a style manual that says to put a comma after "fight," and I can hand you one that says not to. Frustrating, right? For the sake of clarity, and presuming that you are not writing that sentence for a publisher that follows "open comma usage," then I agree with putting a comma after "fight." I only point out the potential for disagreement in case you later run into a grammar book that says NOT to put a comma after an initial prepositional phrase. (More and more grammar handbooks are moving in this direction; removing the comma after initial prepositional phrases.) The same is true about rules for capitalization: there is simply wild disagreement among style books. My advice is always: be consistent in your usage, aim for clarity, and always check what your assigned style manual requires (each professional field has its own style manual with differing rules; so a history paper is different from an English paper and from a paper for Biology class, get it?) Just had to be difficult this morning, sorry... p.s. For the record, I am "old school" when it comes to commas and have fought publishers for the right to put that comma after a prepositional phrase :)