Suggestions for a College Advising Class

[labonte4622]

To those of you who have gone through the college application process with your children, I would like to get some suggestions from you.

 

I have been given the task of creating two courses for our homeschool co-op.  The first course in the sequence will be offered in the spring of junior year and will focus on looking at different careers, beginning the college search, etc.  The second course will be offered in the fall of senior year and will focus on writing the college essay, filling out the application, searching for scholarships, etc.  For each course, the students will attend 15 one hour classes.

 

I spent 5 years working in college admissions so I am thrilled to be teaching these classes next year.  However, I am also incredibly nervous as parents will be paying me and I want to make sure they are getting their money's worth. Fifteen hours just seems like a lot to me as I feel like the material could be covered in just a few sessions and that anyone who has been through the process could teach it.

 

This is where all of you come in.  What was some of the most valuable information you received when going through the process?  What do you wish someone had told you early on that would have made things easier?  Besides the college to which your child was applying, where did you turn to for scholarships that yielded any money?  What can you add to my base of knowledge that will help me come up with 15 hours?

 

Thanks in advance.

[8filltheheart]

Well, you might not like what I have to share. I think the 15 weeks in the fall of sr yr is a semester too late. Schools like Georgia Tech have Oct 15 th deadlines for their competitive scholarships and a whole host of others have Nov 15th deadlines. My kids have researched, made their list, and started their applications by Labor Day. By 15 weeks into sr yr, they have finished applying.

 

ETA: I just noticed that this is your first post. Seems like you are fishing for others to do your planning for you.

Edited January 15, 2018 by 8FillTheHeart

[labonte4622]

Not looking for others to do my planning for me, but rather looking for honest feedback.  I have learned much for reading threads here on the Well Trained Mind and thought that those of you with children who have gone through the process might be able to give me some insight.  In fact, you were able to provide me with exactly that as I had no idea that there were some schools that had deadlines of October 15th.  The college that I worked for was on a rolling admissions basis.

 

Thanks for your feedback.

 

[MerryAtHope]

I agree--I'd push both courses back to fall & spring of junior year, (spring of junior year to start figuring out how to look for colleges is a bit late too).

 

That said--I think one of the most valuable things you could do would be to have several professionals visit your class for the college/career one to do a short presentation and maybe q & a for a limited time but be available after class for more (maybe do it at the end of class time to make that more possible.) It's really hard to figure out what careers are like from online sources, though videos can be somewhat helpful. Hearing someone in person can be compelling.  Or you could do panel discussions etc...--but expose kids to people in real jobs and get them used to asking professionals questions so they'll do it more when they have an interest in various majors or careers.

[labonte4622]

I think you're absolutely right.  I can cover the same topics but move the classes so that the one I was thinking about for the spring of junior year would take place in the fall and the one I was thinking about for senior year would take place in the spring in junior year.  I could still make myself available to students in their senior year but the expectation would be that they knew what they were doing and were just coming to me to brush things up a bit.

 

Thanks for your reply.

 

[8filltheheart]

In fact, you were able to provide me with exactly that as I had no idea that there were some schools that had deadlines of October 15th. The college that I worked for was on a rolling admissions basis.

Those deadlines are for competitive merit, not just admissions. But kids who need scholarship $$ cannot wait until fall to start thinking about their applications.

 

If you aren't familiar with the full spectrum of different processes, I would highly recommend you spend some time understanding the admissions process at different schools and different types of schools. Did your schools require subject tests? Use the Common or Coalition App? Do you know the process for applying to the military academies? Submitting music and art portfolios? Athletic recruiting and how it applies to homeschoolers? CSS Profile and IDOCs? Depending on your school, you might or might not have run into the complexities of some applications.

 

The process is far from universal. Teaching them how to research individual schools, how to read IPED information, and assess their qualifications compared to admissions data/accepted profiles, how to run NPCs and understand how to read the bottom line expected familial contribution, etc, that information they can take and use on their own once they know it is out there for them to research.

[ThisIsTheDay]

Have you homeschooled through high school and through the application process? I'm asking, because if you haven't, it's a very different ball game than applying as a regular public high schooler, and you'll have a LOT of work ahead of you to prepare. But I don't want to presume either way before responding.

[Julie of KY]

I agree with starting at a younger age. Some kids are fine starting later, but if you are aiming for merit or anything competitive it is much better to start earlier. SR year is when many make decisions and it is too late if you are applying to competitive schools. Too often I hear kids talking in December about what they want to do, but they don't realize they've missed Nov. 1 and Dec.1 deadlines. It's really sad that they miss out because they didn't start looking early enough.

 

I'd fine it useful to have ACT prep as that is helpful to getting into and getting money at many schools. 

 

Are they going to be working on writing an essay in your class or are you simply talking about essay writing? For many the essay needs to be done early in the senior year.

 

I agree that the process is incredibly individual. For example, whether it is better to take community college credit vs AP classes. Locally, community college is easier and will transfer to the state schools, but it is unlikely to transfer to private or out of state schools. If you are aiming to go out of state, then AP is much better as it is more likely to give you credit.

[regentrude]

I suggest a great starting point for your research: the pinned threads on the Homeschool board on these forums. They discuss a wealth of issues related to college admissions for homeschooler, and experienced parents have shared their insights.

Particularly these two:

http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/475909-transcripts-credits-ncaa-college-applications-first-time-at-college-scholarshipsfinancial-aid-career-explore-past-threads-linked-here/

http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/418045-starting-high-school-outsourcing-online-class-tutors-dual-enroll-ap-psat-satact-sat-ii-clep-ged-links-to-past-threads-here/

[labonte4622]

I have not homeschooled through high school; my eldest homeschooler is in 7th grade.  With my background in college admissions, I was asked to create this course but as I shared with the woman who runs the co-op, it's been 13 years and things have definitely changed in that much time.  Receiving feedback from all of you has been beneficial and I really appreciate the responses as well as direction to the pinned posts.  I obviously have a basic framework that I will be working with, but everyone comes at it from a different perspective with different experiences and I appreciate the opportunity to learn from other.  Thanks again. 

[JanetC]

I think the best class wouldn't have lesson plans so much as a chance to help the kids where they are.

 

Start with a survey of the kids -

 

Are you registered for the PSAT. Have you taken an SAT or ACT? Spend the first couple weeks of the class on test prep for the PSAT. Help them figure out which tests they need SAT/SAT2/ACT and write a testing plan with dates.

 

Have you or your parent created a transcript or homeschool records? Spend time on those as needed.

 

After they have transcripts - are you on track for applying to college? Plan last-minute junior or senior year course changed to pick up that required credit in whatever subject has been forgotten.

 

Start a college admissions resume - now that you've documented their academics, document extra curriculars, honors, etc.

 

Start exploring majors and careers - send them off to do informational interviews and share what they learned

 

As PSAT and SAT/ACT scores come in, start figuring out which colleges are in range

 

Send them off to do college visits and share what they learned

 

Teach them how to have the money talk with parents and have them learn to run FAFSA4caster, College Board EFC estimator, and the net price calculator. Calculate student loan payments of varying amounts.

 

Yes, you can tell them what they need to know in a few hours, but walking through them step by step and supporting them as they accomplish various items would be a huge help to them

[regentrude]

Are you registered for the PSAT. 

 

Just remember that the important PSAT is fall of junior year! So kids should be aware of this spring of sophomore year so they know to register in time!

[JanetC]

Just remember that the important PSAT is fall of junior year! So kids should be aware of this spring of sophomore year so they know to register in time!

This varies by location. My school district wanted to hear from us first thing in the fall. But yes, check into how homeschoolers take the PSAT in your area in case fall is too late for your students.

[regentrude]

This varies by location. My school district wanted to hear from us first thing in the fall. But yes, check into how homeschoolers take the PSAT in your area in case fall is too late for your students.

 

Yes, it's the same thing here, register early in the fall. My point was that students need to be aware of this PSAT scheduling by the end of Sophomore year because the class in fall of jr year may be too late for them to register in time.

Edited January 15, 2018 by regentrude

[regentrude]

If I think more about this, there are actually two different issues for homeschooled students with two different time lines.

 

The actual college application process (for which is probably fine if a course is started in Jr year), and preparing for college (aka position-yourself-to-be-a-strong -applicant). The preparation is something that needs to be addresses much earlier. If students are not on track with their coursework, telling them they should be taking SAT subject tests or AP tests won't do any good if their level of classwork did not prepare them for this. Realizing in 11th grade that their coursework does not meet the admissions requirements of the local state school and that there is no way they will get the required credits in is too late.

Likewise the discussion with the PSAT. They need to know as sophomores what this is and that the junior fall date is the only one that counts.

 

So I think, for the most efficient class, you may want a two pronged approach, because applying to, and preparing for, college are two very different things.

 

ETA: This has been driven home acutely by my recent experience with several homeschooled students who requested my help for the college application process. They were dismayed when they realized that their high school coursework had not actually prepared them for admission. This could have been remedied had it been addressed years earlier, but now it will be expensive and complicated to fix.

Edited January 15, 2018 by regentrude

[RootAnn]

I think that some of the two prong approach can be addressed by doing a "homeschool high school" seminar for parents (where the kids are also welcome, but it is geared toward parents). Laying out the general minimum college requirements, talk of timing, tests, applications, FAFSA, EFC, and transcripts is more appropriate for the parents anyway. It could be an hour talk in the fall and repeated each spring, thus getting parents when their kids are 8th grade and up.

[labonte4622]

I actually plan on offering evening seminars for freshman students and their parents in the fall and again in the spring.  I will do the same for the sophomores and their parents but will cover different material.  As all of you have said, "the earlier, the better" though certainly in the first two years of high school they don't need a semester long course.

[MerryAtHope]

ETA: This has been driven home acutely by my recent experience with several homeschooled students who requested my help for the college application process. They were dismayed when they realized that their high school coursework had not actually prepared them for admission. This could have been remedied had it been addressed years earlier, but now it will be expensive and complicated to fix.

 

That's so sad! 

[GoodGrief]

Yes, it's the same thing here, register early in the fall. My point was that students need to be aware of this PSAT scheduling by the end of Sophomore year because the class in fall of jr year may be too late for them to register in time.

 

And they may need time to prep; summer is often a good time for that.

[GoodGrief]

If I think more about this, there are actually two different issues for homeschooled students with two different time lines.

 

The actual college application process (for which is probably fine if a course is started in Jr year), and preparing for college (aka position-yourself-to-be-a-strong -applicant). The preparation is something that needs to be addresses much earlier. If students are not on track with their coursework, telling them they should be taking SAT subject tests or AP tests won't do any good if their level of classwork did not prepare them for this. Realizing in 11th grade that their coursework does not meet the admissions requirements of the local state school and that there is no way they will get the required credits in is too late.

Likewise the discussion with the PSAT. They need to know as sophomores what this is and that the junior fall date is the only one that counts.

 

So I think, for the most efficient class, you may want a two pronged approach, because applying to, and preparing for, college are two very different things.

 

ETA: This has been driven home acutely by my recent experience with several homeschooled students who requested my help for the college application process. They were dismayed when they realized that their high school coursework had not actually prepared them for admission. This could have been remedied had it been addressed years earlier, but now it will be expensive and complicated to fix.

 

I agree completely with this. Even spring of junior year can sometimes be a bit late to start thinking about college apps depending on the financial needs and goals of the student. Touching base with parents and students in -8th grade about a rough high school plan could be very helpful for some.

 

Labonte4622, you said something about thinking a year long class on this topic might be too much, and I actually tend to agree. I know you are trying to fit this into the co-op framework though, so that's limiting. Admissions has changed quite a bit even in the last thirteen years since your experience, and the considerations for homeschoolers and those shooting for selective colleges will be a bit different. A series of monthly informational meetings with guest speakers for parents and students with Q&A might be more useful, coupled with a serious writing class (not specific to college essays) for the students during co-op time. Some topics could be planning high school curric with discussion of AP and DE, post high school grad options (to include the trades), testing options (SAT subject tests, PSAT/National Merit, SAT, ACT, the difficult of scheduling AP exams), application options (Common App and others, identifying references...that can be tricky for homeschoolers, EA/ED options), financial aid...this is HUGE...identifying affordable schools, understanding the different sorts of scholarships.

 

Browsing the College Confidential parent forums, college admissions forums, financial aid forums (including the specialty FA topics), and college search and selection forums will be quite helpful in identifying specific issues that trip people up in the college app process.

[MarkT]

I think the best class wouldn't have lesson plans so much as a chance to help the kids where they are.

 

Start with a survey of the kids -

 

Are you registered for the PSAT. Have you taken an SAT or ACT? Spend the first couple weeks of the class on test prep for the PSAT. Help them figure out which tests they need SAT/SAT2/ACT and write a testing plan with dates.

 

Have you or your parent created a transcript or homeschool records? Spend time on those as needed.

 

After they have transcripts - are you on track for applying to college? Plan last-minute junior or senior year course changed to pick up that required credit in whatever subject has been forgotten.

 

Start a college admissions resume - now that you've documented their academics, document extra curriculars, honors, etc.

 

Start exploring majors and careers - send them off to do informational interviews and share what they learned

 

As PSAT and SAT/ACT scores come in, start figuring out which colleges are in range

 

Send them off to do college visits and share what they learned

 

Teach them how to have the money talk with parents and have them learn to run FAFSA4caster, College Board EFC estimator, and the net price calculator. Calculate student loan payments of varying amounts.

 

Yes, you can tell them what they need to know in a few hours, but walking through them step by step and supporting them as they accomplish various items would be a huge help to them

Yes the less you call it a "class" the better - at this stage in their life the students need to start "owning" the "process" - you can provide the tools and the knowledge how to use those tools.

 

1)   You could get SAT/Prep material that is provided/sold to schools that is much harder to acquire as a pure home school.

2)   Create a template worksheet that each student could use for comparing colleges their specific admission requirements such as SAT subject tests.

3) ... all of the aove

 

maybe have part of "class"  in 11th grade and part in first semester 12th

 

 

Good luck

[labonte4622]

I agree that things have definitely changed.  Thirteen - eighteen years ago we received less than five homeschooled applications a year and as the second largest public university in the state, we weren't exactly small.

[8filltheheart]

The common and coalition apps and the SRAR (self-reporting academic record) are probably things you should practice with yourself. Fwiw, I detest SRAR systems.

[clementine]

Having graduated two homeschool kiddos, I would say your 'full year schedule' should be spring of sophomore year and fall of junior year.  But could accomodate juniors and seniors who haven't thought ahead.  

 

That may sound early to parents of younger kids, but they'll realize it how beneficial it is once their kids get into 10th grade.  Time flies so fast in those high school years!!!