What options exist between "I support gun control legislation because I believe it will reduce the number of murders by gun" and "I believe that any legislation is an infringement on my rights and don't support it"? That's what I'm referring to here. You either believe gun control is a part of the solution to the problem or you believe that the problem is just what we have to suffer along with in order to live in a free society. I don't see a middle ground.
If you don't believe that gun control is a possible part of the solution, then what is? I don't see a lot of overlap between people agitating for improved mental health care that accessible to all and those lobbying against gun control.
What I would like to see, as a gun owner who desperately wants to figure out *something* that will actually help in these cases, is for those who negligently allow a person access to a gun, a person who shouldn't have one, to also be charged. A friend was detailing all that is on the line for her if she, as a cashier, sells alcohol to someone underage. She could be arrested, jailed or fined, and/or lose her job. There should, in my opinion, be similar laws in place for those who sell, give, or provide access to a gun to a person who otherwise would not be allowed to have one. And/or charges for that person related to whatever crime is committed. Or something.
Granted, this is likely unreasonable and impossible to enforce. But maybe it would curb private sales of firearms, friend to friend, family member to family member, etc. Maybe it would encourage parents to actually lock up their firearms, either all the time, or if they know that a family member is at-risk.
I feel like.....there are laws on the books limiting who can own guns. They are not enough, and I doubt they will be effective. Why? Not because I am hell bent on keeping my right to buy ever more guns in the future, but because laws that go into effect in the future about who can purchase a gun do nothing at all about who already owns a gun, do nothing about faulty reporting, do nothing about private sales, gifts, or gun thefts......instead, they say "we think xyz citizen is not entitled to his/her constitutional rights, because of situation abc" and that simply gets people agitated, angry, worked up, etc.
Circling back around to middle ground, then, let's make laws that go after those who help at risk folks get around existing laws. Let's maybe make/hold responsible the person who supplied the gun that was used in a crime, unless it was a documented theft or a fully legal purchase w/no oops factor. It won't solve all of it, it won't prevent all of it, but it should make the average gun owner think twice about how he stores his gun, who he lets access it, who he lends it to, and how he sells or gives it away later on. Hopefully.
It could be time to post this website that lists gun violence incidents in oodles of charts and maps. Here's one detailing unintentional shootings:
The first page (at the moment) is filled with shootings only back to Dec 2nd. One week.
Here's children killed or injured:
The first page goes back to Nov 22nd. Not even a month's worth fit on one page.
Here's teens killed or injured (the school shooting this thread is about comes in here):
It only goes back to Dec 4th. Less than a week again.
It boggles my mind that there are folks who think having oodles of guns out there (legal or not) helps our (collective) safety, but then again, there are folks who feel it's safer to drive than fly too, so... often stats mean nothing to many.
I still don't think anything will ever change in the US. It's a mindset this "Great" nation has.
Out of curiosity, I googled gun violence and deaths and got this World Atlas site:
Apparently, we're still #11 in the Firearm Related Deaths category with an interesting list of (non 1st world) countries above us (and many below too). I'm sure if we keep on track we can move up into the Top 10 at least. Our Great Country should never be below the Top 10 in anything! (sigh)
Interestingly a lot of the countries on the list with higher rates of gun deaths than us also have stricter gun laws than us. Not all, but some. It would only let me read those top 5, and 3 of the 5 require a license to even own a gun, let alone carry it. One doesn't allow gun ownership at all (#2), and one limits how many guns & how they can be kept, and where they can be carried/how (#1), including not allowing guns in public spaces at all. I don't know about all of #s 6 through 10, but Brazil has similarly restrictive laws as well. Yet.....all higher than us.
It's not a matter of desperately clinging to my own gun, passionately protecting our constitution, blindly fighting for the right to own a weapon...it's that when we look around, it doesn't seem too effective. That's not to say let's pass zero legislation...it's just to say, let's make sure whatever legislation we *do* pass, is something that will actually work. Because "you can't own a gun" doesn't seem to be one that works.
From what I understand, countries with strict gun control do not have fewer suicides. Gun control is not an effective means of curtailing suicides.
Countries with strict gun control have infinitely fewer mass shootings, including school shootings. That is something we take action about.
We are choosing to do nothing at the moment, and more children die every month.
Perhaps fewer mass shootings, but per the previously linked World Atlas site, the top 5 gun deaths countries all have stricter gun control laws than the US (and possibly the top 10, but I could not locate the gun laws on numbers 6 through 10).
Again, not saying we do nothing, just saying that whatever we do needs to be more than knee-jerk reaction based on emotion.
Ok so what is there to prevent every other person who has a dangerous family member from not doing the exact same thing? S there any enforceable law to make people use gun safes or similar precautions ?
I find the risk of the next Sandy Hook massacre to be unacceptable and would like to see measures in place to prevent it. What I hear is ‘she was irresponsible so it’s not something we can do anything about ‘. Or ‘criminal break laws so there is no point in any other laws’. Which leaves us exactly as vulnerable to tragedy as we were five years ago when those kids were killed. That is unacceptable to me. Is it unacceptable to you ?
As for problems with mental health treatment in this country , I am intimately and painfully aware. I have a brother I’ve been scared for, and of, for years . I don’t really want to talk about it.
On this I wholeheartedly agree; I would love love love to see laws put in place, or enforced if already in place, that make criminally negligent those who grant access to a weapon that is later used in a crime, assuming they had some knowledge that would indicate a possibility. Or if the perpetrator of the later crime was a minor at time the gun was acquired. I don't know exactly the way this should be worded.....but I think legislation along these lines actually has a chance of being effective, because it targets the folks who are likely to want to be responsible. The guy likely to commit the mass shooting is unlikely to care what laws exist. His mother, father, brother, sister, cousin, friend, etc. who owns the gun he uses is more likely to be more careful if he or she can also be held responsible should something happen. At least, I hope they would. Maybe I'm being idealistic, I don't know, but I think this is an avenue that could work to actually make a difference.