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poppy

And ANOTHER school shooting today

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Prayers for the families involved.

We don't know any details yet.  But we do know--- we all know--- that these deaths were entirely predictable, and there will be more school shooters.   Shame on all the lawmakers who do nothing while this happens over and over.

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The New Mexico (Aztec High School) shooting has three fatalities reported. The Washington state (Graham-Kapowsin High School) shooting has injuries and thankfully no fatalities.

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We can't talk about it, it's too soon.

 

Thoughts and prayers. Waiting for Jesus.

 

 

Edited by bibiche
unnecessary commentary
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It’s already illegal for minors to be discharging these guns without an adult, adults or kids to discharge or even carry on a k-12 campus, and to murder people, complete with various severe legal penalties. The laws are already in place that address these crimes.

 

Edited by emzhengjiu
personal attack
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We aren't supposed to discuss any of it, it's TOO SOON.

 

 

Edited by emzhengjiu
personal attack
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darn those people who cling to their guns and religion.

 

Which religion combines these two?  Can you point to the verse or section or segment or whatever?  I've missed it.

 

What's happened in the US (IMO) is that shooting folks has become a mindset - a real option for anyone wanting to commit suicide for their cause whether that cause is religious or bullying or merely wanting to get their name in the news for a few days and on a list forever.  The fact that guns are easy to get just makes fulfilling that option easier for them.

 

The mindset is not terribly unlike others in history who thought dying for their cause was a decent option - from Kamikaze pilots to ISIS and more.

 

I don't see it changing anytime in the near future.  I hope the mindset doesn't spill over to other countries as much as it has here, but at least in most of those countries, guns aren't as easy to get hold of and other options to murder folks are usually less deadly.

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The problem as I see it, is this being a societal/cultural issue, and it's not going away until we address it on a societal level. I'm not sure more laws are really going to help. Maybe the will. And I'd be supportive of certain ones...but for pete's sake, what's the point of making more laws when the ones we have can't even be enforced?!

 

Will discussion help? Yes, I believe it's a start. We need more than just talk, of course, but shutting down discussion is, IMO, the antithesis.

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Wow. We didn't even manage to get more than a few posts expressing sorrow for the victims before this became an attack-fest. :(

 

These threads always get nasty, but it would have been nice if we could have talked about the poor victims and their families, and perhaps shared some details about what actually happened before the snark and viciousness started.

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Wow. We didn't even manage to get more than a few posts expressing sorrow for the victims before this became an attack-fest. :(

 

Same old, same old. Happens every time.

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Here is a link to a news story. (I just linked the first one that came up.) The school is in New Mexico. So sad and horrifying.

 

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/police-respond-to-report-of-shooting-at-n-m-high-school/

Thank you for posting the link, Margaret. I hadn't seen it when I checked the news headlines earlier today.

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The New Mexico (Aztec High School) shooting has three fatalities reported. The Washington state (Graham-Kapowsin High School) shooting has injuries and thankfully no fatalities.

I hadn't heard about this shooting, either, so thank you for mentioning it.

 

This is terrible. :crying:

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It’s already illegal for minors to be discharging these guns without an adult, adults or kids to discharge or even carry on a k-12 campus, and to murder people, complete with various severe legal penalties. The laws are already in place that address these crimes.

 

Oh wait, that’s not what you want, is it? That people commit crimes against one another, sometimes even deadly ones, isn’t your issue. It’s this particular implement and it’s constitutionality as an individual right we are really supposed to be discussing, right?

 

Of course, this is going to go down the predictable paths, and all of us who don’t immediately want to ban every gun are apparently culpable and all that Jazz. On and on and on it goes. Someone message me when the finger pointing at anyone but the perpetrators finishes up and I might comment.

 

Hhhmmm...if only there were additional steps we could take that would make breaking these laws more difficult.  I wonder if other countries have a similar problem or have figured out how to address this?

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My sympathies to the families of these high schoolers who have lost their loved ones so close to Christmas.

 

We may not be able to do anything about gun control, but there are avenues toward prevention that could be taken.

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Which religion combines these two?  Can you point to the verse or section or segment or whatever?  I've missed it.

 

 

 

 

Apparently liberal religion combines the religion of mocking those who pray and the religion of mocking those who support enforcement of gun laws on the books.  

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Wow. We didn't even manage to get more than a few posts expressing sorrow for the victims before this became an attack-fest. :(

 

These threads always get nasty, but it would have been nice if we could have talked about the poor victims and their families, and perhaps shared some details about what actually happened before the snark and viciousness started.

Even the OP was political.  It's pretty sad not to be able to mourn unless you do it *right*.

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Please don't let this be a gun thread. Praying for the families and children.

 

Yeah, I was thinking that too but it appears that it was intended to be another discussion about guns. I have already participated in several of those and learned quite a bit. 

So for this thread, I just want to express my sorrow.

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Wow. We didn't even manage to get more than a few posts expressing sorrow for the victims before this became an attack-fest. :(

 

These threads always get nasty, but it would have been nice if we could have talked about the poor victims and their families, and perhaps shared some details about what actually happened before the snark and viciousness started.

 

 

My thoughts exactly...but it seems we are already past that point.

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One of the shootings (Washington State) was a hoax. Which to me is just the most disgusting "joke" someone can do right now.

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My heart hurts. I wonder how much our society thinks it okay to hurt others in an attempt to express themselves? Not talking about defense of self or others, but how many people are okay with getting angry and lashing out...with social media or whatever strikes a persons fancy? Is it any wonder that some people take it to the next level of violence?

 

And isn't blaming people just another symptom of this?

 

I wish our society would embrace compassion and learn how to agree to disagree! I think about all the compromises the U.S.'s founding fathers and initial colonies made, and it saddens me even further to see what we've become. Granted, they had their own issues. I'm not saying we need to go back to the way it was in the 18th-19th centuries! Just saying they knew how to compromise and come to an agreement, and I wish we could remember that instead of glorified accounts of rebellion against [insert perceived oppression here].

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One of the shootings (Washington State) was a hoax. Which to me is just the most disgusting "joke" someone can do right now.

 

As I understand it, the shooting hoax was back in September. The latest one (this week) in Washington State was not.

 

Still an awful joke!!! 

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One of the shootings (Washington State) was a hoax. Which to me is just the most disgusting "joke" someone can do right now.

I just read a novel by a popular author who used a fake campus shooting spree as a diversion for a robbery. I know it's the characters who did a despicable thing, but on a day like today, that plot point hurts.

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One of the shootings (Washington State) was a hoax. Which to me is just the most disgusting "joke" someone can do right now.

The Washington state shooting is this recent one.

 

“GRAHAM, Wash. -- An altercation between two girls reportedly led up to the shooting at Graham-Kapowsin High School on Tuesday, where two students were wounded. They were shot waiting to watch a planned fight between boys after school.

 

Court documents said that planned fight never happened. Instead shots were fired into the crowd of students that had gathered for the fight. The scene was chaotic as the two wounded students were able to make it from the off-campus site, where a fight was supposed to take place, to back on campus and then rushed to the hospital.†http://komonews.com/news/local/two-suspects-in-shooting-outside-graham-high-school-appear-in-court

 

ETA:

The New Mexico shooting

“San Juan County Sheriff's Office, NM

49 mins ·

Update on shooting at Aztec High School: This is a unified investigation, we have the FBI and State Police Crime Scene Teams en route. We will announce a press conference location and time soon. 1 suspect shooter is deceased and 2 Aztec High School students are deceased. The families of the victims were notified immediately. No other injuries are reported at this time. The school has been evacuated and all students are to be picked up at McGee park at noon. Our priority right now is to reunite students with their families. We will continue to update our page as correct information becomes available.†https://www.facebook.com/SJCSO/

Edited by Arcadia
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I just read a novel by a popular author who used a fake campus shooting spree as a diversion for a robbery. I know it's the characters who did a despicable thing, but on a day like today, that plot point hurts.

Wow, that does seem disgustingly plausible. Ugh :(

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 I think about all the compromises the U.S.'s founding fathers and initial colonies made, and it saddens me even further to see what we've become. Granted, they had their own issues. I'm not saying we need to go back to the way it was in the 18th-19th centuries! Just saying they knew how to compromise and come to an agreement, and I wish we could remember that instead of glorified accounts of rebellion against [insert perceived oppression here].

 

Like the 3/5 compromise?

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My heart hurts. I wonder how much our society thinks it okay to hurt others in an attempt to express themselves? Not talking about defense of self or others, but how many people are okay with getting angry and lashing out...with social media or whatever strikes a persons fancy? Is it any wonder that some people take it to the next level of violence?

 

And isn't blaming people just another symptom of this?

 

I wish our society would embrace compassion and learn how to agree to disagree! I think about all the compromises the U.S.'s founding fathers and initial colonies made, and it saddens me even further to see what we've become. Granted, they had their own issues. I'm not saying we need to go back to the way it was in the 18th-19th centuries! Just saying they knew how to compromise and come to an agreement, and I wish we could remember that instead of glorified accounts of rebellion against [insert perceived oppression here].

Hold up now.  Are these honored founding fathers you mention the same ones who held slaves?  The compromises they and their descendants came up with were harmful to even more people in their day.  That rebellion started the Civil War.  Things stay the same don't they! 

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I haven’t read any links posted yet, but I’m wondering if this has to do with bullying. I’m sick to death of hearing about kids who are killing themselves and others because they’ve been treated so terribly. Not enough is being done. These kids are suffering. There’s even a new term for suicide because of bullying... ‘bullycide’. This crap has to stop. Our kids are dying from this.

 

And regardless of why it happened, prayers and good thoughts for the victims, families, and witnesses.

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I keep hearing that my thoughts and prayers are useless but when I ask someone what they've done TODAY (while I was "just" praying), this week to fix anything or what they plan to do tomorrow...I usually get crickets.  Because it really is about *thinking* the "right" thing politically for them; O guess the religious jab is just a bonus.  Derision wins the day for some.

 

Try contacting your representative. Hopefully more effective than praying.

https://www.elitedaily.com/p/how-to-contact-congress-about-gun-control-after-the-las-vegas-shooting-2754028

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Apparently liberal religion combines the religion of mocking those who pray and the religion of mocking those who support enforcement of gun laws on the books.  

 

I still have never read it or anything like it as a tenet of any religion myself.

 

If it's pure mocking of another's beliefs you are talking about, IRL I see that happening on both sides of the gun control issue.  Due to where I live, I see it far more (in person) from the NRA's side of things - mocking those who want more gun control.

 

Regardless, as with another poster from another (totally unrelated) thread, this issue is one of the main reasons we plan to relocate.  I've been to other countries and seen their majority mindset in person.  I prefer it.  Every country has its folks who slip through the cracks or for whatever reason turn violent.  Some countries put up with it and others try to prevent it in ways that sure seem to work better (from health care to gun control and more).  I want to join them.  It's ok that they might not have all the "toys" (not meaning guns - meaning standard of living) that this country takes for granted.  There's more to life and actually living than toys.

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Like the 3/5 compromise?

 

 

Hold up now.  Are these honored founding fathers you mention the same ones who held slaves?  The compromises they and their descendants came up with were harmful to even more people in their day.  That rebellion started the Civil War.  Things stay the same don't they! 

No, that's not what I'm talking about. Agreed, slavery was/is horrible. What they did to Native Americans was horrible. I am NOT diminishing that! I am not saying those were right or anything along those lines!

 

What I meant was that I see a lot of people seeming to glorify how early Americans and the founding fathers stood so bravely to oppression and that's what it means to be American...i.e. stand up and fight against whatever you don't agree with. They completely miss that America would never be here if people hadn't sat down and actually listened to each other. If they hadn't been willing to compromise, their willingness to fight would never have resulted in a functioning government.

 

I'm not saying that I agree with all their decisions, just that they did have the ability to compromise, which I fail to see in our government or in society in general.

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Try contacting your representative. Hopefully more effective than praying.

 

Doubtful.  I think most of them are as set in their views as everyone else is.  I'm not sure prayer helps that either.

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I would love the NRA to stop blocking gun violence research like they have for the past 20+ years.

 

My hearts go out to these families and communities.  I hope one day we are able to research and understand more fully why the rates keep rising.

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Doubtful.  I think most of them are as set in their views as everyone else is.  I'm not sure prayer helps that either.

 

Well, we could always try to out-lobby the NRA....

 

Edited by Tanaqui
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I would love to see harsh penalties for the legal gun owners whose guns are used in these shootings. Your kid took your gun to school and killed three people? You're looking at life without parole. That's what I'd like to see.

 

And while I'm at it. If you accidentaly shoot someone while cleaning your gun or by dropping it, you get treated like someone who commits vehicular homicide. Your toddler shot your 7 yo because you left your gun on the bedside table? Life without parole for you. Your teenager killed themselves with your gun because you didn't lock it up or they knew your combination? You're legally responsible the same as if you'd served a teen alcohol and they kill someone drunk driving.

 

When we make the penalties for irresponsible gun ownership commensurate with its effects, we'll make irresponsible gun ownership unattractive.

Edited by chiguirre
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As I understand it, the shooting hoax was back in September. The latest one (this week) in Washington State was not.

 

Still an awful joke!!!

Oh wow :( I live in WA State and hadn't seen this. It makes me feel so sad and tired.

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I would love to see harsh penalties for the legal gun owners whose guns are used in these shootings. Your kid took your gun to school and killed three people? You're looking at life without parole. That's what I'd like to see.

 

And while I'm at it. If you accidentaly shoot someone while cleaning your gun or by dropping it, you get treated like someone who commits vehicular homicide. Your toddler shot your 7 yo because you left your gun on the bedside table? Life without parole for you. Your teenager killed themselves with your gun because you didn't lock it up or they knew your combination? You're legally responsible the same as if you'd served a teen alcohol and they kill someone drunk driving.

 

When we make the penalties for irresponsible gun ownership commensurate with its effects, we'll make irresponsible gun ownership unattractive.

 

Yes.

 

And mandatory insurance.

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Regardless, as with another poster from another (totally unrelated) thread, this issue is one of the main reasons we plan to relocate.  I've been to other countries and seen their majority mindset in person.  I prefer it.  Every country has its folks who slip through the cracks or for whatever reason turn violent.  Some countries put up with it and others try to prevent it in ways that sure seem to work better (from health care to gun control and more).  I want to join them.  It's ok that they might not have all the "toys" (not meaning guns - meaning standard of living) that this country takes for granted.  There's more to life and actually living than toys.

 

Us, too. 

 

I'm over the arguments. And there is nothing that will be done, at least at this point in this country's history. So the mass shootings will continue, over and over and over and over and over and over again. 

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It’s already illegal for minors to be discharging these guns without an adult, adults or kids to discharge or even carry on a k-12 campus, and to murder people, complete with various severe legal penalties. The laws are already in place that address these crimes.

 

Oh wait, that’s not what you want, is it? That people commit crimes against one another, sometimes even deadly ones, isn’t your issue. It’s this particular implement and it’s constitutionality as an individual right we are really supposed to be discussing, right?

 

Of course, this is going to go down the predictable paths, and all of us who don’t immediately want to ban every gun are apparently culpable and all that Jazz. On and on and on it goes. Someone message me when the finger pointing at anyone but the perpetrators finishes up and I might comment.

 

Am I reading this right: it's already illegal, so there is no problem.  Nothing more can be done. 

 

Sixteen likes, this got.  I personally think it's shameful that this news of a shooter in a school is greeted this calm acceptance. 

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