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2nd grader struggling with reading


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#1 ktgrok

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Posted 11 October 2017 - 11:20 AM

So my 2nd grader is 7, going to be 8 in Feb. She's had a few speech issues which we are working on, and needs to be evaluated again, as she goes back and forth between being far enough behind to qualify for help and not. S/th/f issues, and she still says "walkeded" instead of walked and "winded" instead of won, although it is getting better. She was late to learn her pronouns...she used to say him instead of he, etc but that is better now. She continues to make progress, but just behind, if that makes sense. the felt it was developmental because she is developing steadily, just later than normal.

Reading seems to be the same. She finished AAR1, and is halfway through Dancing Bears A but lacks some fluency, although I'm seeing a big improvement lately. But...she still is definitely behind other kids her age. Fine, no big deal I figured. My oldest was a late reader and blossomed around 8-9 years old.

But.. today she was near tears telling me that all the kids in her Faith Formation class at church (new name for CCD classes in Catholic Church) can read so much better than her, and they read their assignments and she can't. Ugh.

So....she is motivated to work on this. We are going to try a two week reading "boot camp" of working on lessons 3 times a day (and probably cutting back on math during this time..math is super easy for her anyway). We will do both Dancing Bears and Mindplay (they use different approaches..more of a spell to read approach in Mind Play). She loves Dancing Bears and is definitely making progress with it.

Is this enough for now, and see what happens? Or should I go ahead and look into evaluations? I THINK maybe the local University does them, but not sure.

Thoughts? My heart hurts for her.

Oh, and no real other signs of issues....she does still get b/d mixed up but not as much as she used to. Visual tracking was checked on the mind play thing and she got perfect scores. She can sound out well but struggles with fluency, if that makes sense.

Edited by ktgrok, 11 October 2017 - 11:51 AM.


#2 OhElizabeth

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Posted 11 October 2017 - 12:45 PM

Around here I can get an OG-certified reading tutor to run the CTOPP (tool to diagnose dyslexia) and the DAR (reading achievement) for just $75 and it's quick to get an appt. That would be a simple way to start, just to make and make sure there's not another explanation. A psych eval takes months to get in, so it would just be a quickie snapshot. You could compare that to her probable IQ (based on older, obviously very bright sibling) and decide.

 

Personally, I'm of the pissy not wait camp. My ds, as a dyslexic but full intervention kid, finished 1st grade reading at a 5th/6th grade reading level. Reading is hard for him, but he got the intervention. So I really don't see a con to intervention, kwim? Only cons to not intervening.

 

CTOPP will kick out scores for RAN/RAS, phonological processing, and I think maybe fluency, can't remember. So then the reading tutor could tell you what they think is up and what they recommend. Lots of people never get evals and go that way. We didn't end up using the reading tutor. Ds wouldn't read for me at all at the time, so that's why I went in, wanting an explanation. We were both so flabbergasted by the results, we decided we were probably good with me continuing the way I was with him.  :lol:  So it's just an information thing, a way to get a snapshot without spending a ton. 



#3 OhElizabeth

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Posted 11 October 2017 - 12:48 PM

My *guess* is she's going to benefit from some RAN/RAS and fluency work, but I'm not an expert on it. I'd get that baseline first. I guess see how long it takes to get in. If the sessions are going well, doing more is ok. For fluency, we did RAN/RAS work and put all the words, phrases, and sentences from Barton into Quizlet. I'm obsessive like that, lol. It worked.



#4 ktgrok

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Posted 11 October 2017 - 01:01 PM

My *guess* is she's going to benefit from some RAN/RAS and fluency work, but I'm not an expert on it. I'd get that baseline first. I guess see how long it takes to get in. If the sessions are going well, doing more is ok. For fluency, we did RAN/RAS work and put all the words, phrases, and sentences from Barton into Quizlet. I'm obsessive like that, lol. It worked.

What is/are RAN/RAS?

 

Sorry, this is new to me :)  My oldest went to public school when he learned to read. He DID have working memory issues, coding issues, etc. 



#5 Pen

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Posted 11 October 2017 - 02:02 PM

If you are able to get evaluations, that would probably be helpful for you to know more about what is going on. Dyslexia and speech issues often go together.

 

I think ramping up DB sounds like a good idea!  And if that helps done for a couple of weeks, consider continuing that for as long as it takes to be reading well.  If it doesn't seem to be helping consider other routes.  Consider letting something other than math lose the time for more reading practice however.  My ds was very ahead in math when we started intensive reading remediation, and so I thought it would not hurt to borrow some math time, but in retrospect  I think it would have been better to drop everything else (history etc.) at that stage and just do math and reading.

 

Consider adding www.talkingfingers.com Read Write Type program which works on both typing and some phonics / reading skills at same time.



#6 kbutton

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Posted 11 October 2017 - 03:31 PM

I think I would look for a place that can do an Orton-Gillingham screening, CTOPP, etc. My son had issues that were a lot like you were describing. He does have some dyslexic traits (and a dyslexic aunt) as well as speech problems, quirky language issues (and high language scores too), and auditory processing difficulties (he's a mess, lol!). He never got a diagnosis related to his reading issues, though he had some funky CTOPP scores. It just wasn't definitive. He has some developmental vision issues and had VT. It helped a great deal with reading (and writing). I still think he has some borderline issues, but he compensates well. 

 

Eye tracking might be okay, but she might have other vision issues that a developmental optometrist would catch. Sometimes things like retained reflexes create issues with eye-hand coordination that affect reading. I think some of the neck reflexes (for instance--and I don't remember for sure which ones) cause the eyes and hands to move together in a way they aren't supposed to. So she could theoretically track okay until she brushes her hair back or something, and then poof, it's gone. Also, some tracking and movement issues are very, very subtle or are more obvious with one kind of task/format than another (computer vs. paper vs. on the board vs. on a desk, etc.). Sometimes fatigue is the issue. My kids both seemed to have pretty normal ocular motor function, but if the COVD tired them out, then they fell apart completely. We went from, "Well, everything seems to be going okay--one or two issues might be borderline but functioning" to "Whoa, this is pretty bad--I am surprised your kids didn't have more trouble learning to read" with the COVD fatiguing their eyes during exam. (She tried that after the list of symptoms didn't match the exam.)

 

 

 



#7 ktgrok

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Posted 11 October 2017 - 08:39 PM

Mini update! So..I talked with her faith formation teacher and it turns out that most of the kids in her class are in third grade! No wonder they can read better than she can! I told her this when I picked her up and her face lit up. We are still going to address this, but at least she feels better now!


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#8 OhElizabeth

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Posted 11 October 2017 - 10:24 PM

RAN/RAS=Rapid Naming score. It's included in the CTOPP. 



#9 ktgrok

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Posted Today, 12:13 PM

A video of her reading: 



#10 Heathermomster

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Posted Today, 01:00 PM

What a sweetie!

I am struck by how she doesn’t seem to know the following sounds: /ee/, /ai/, /oi, /oa/, or the correct short vowels sounds for cvc words. I don’t understand the scope and sequence of AAR or Dancing Bears. If she has not been taught those phongrams, she cannot be expected to know them.

My dyslexic started working with an OG reading tutor 3 times a week starting in second grade. He was identified dyslexic by a volunteer at the Scottish Rite Learning Center late first grade, and np tested at the beginning of 2nd grade.

I fall under the pissy get ‘em tested ASAP category. Testing tends to be a process of elimination. You can get her developmental vision checked by a COVD to rule out vision. You can have her evaluated for motor issues with an OT. The OT could look at handedness, pincer/core strength, balance, motor planning, and developmental motor. Developmental motor issues may affect learning. You could also go to the Barton Reading and Spelling website and administer the Barton pretest.

Overall, I think she should be using a phonics-based reading program that teaches explicitly using multi sensory instruction. I think you should get her tested as well.

Good luck!

Edited by Heathermomster, Today, 02:16 PM.


#11 ktgrok

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Posted Today, 01:03 PM

She practices phonograms, including the ones you listed, with flash cards every school day. And knows them pretty well in that scenario.

 

I will look into testing as well, and see what might be available to us. 


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#12 OhElizabeth

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Posted Today, 01:26 PM

Yes, it's time to test. Definitely. 



#13 PentecostalMom

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Posted Today, 02:00 PM

My niece is the same age and has similar issues. She has been tested nine ways to Sunday (to coin an old country phrase), has been in speech therapy, occupational therapy, had vision and hearing testing....nothing. It’s all developmental they’ve been told over and over. They keep plugging along. She is eight and in second grade.

This is not to say what your child is or is not dealing with. Just to say that it also could be the same.


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Edited by PentecostalMom, Today, 02:01 PM.


#14 Lecka

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Posted Today, 02:01 PM

I didn't pick up on the other missed phonograms Heathermonster noticed -- if she missed those I think it is a problem; too.

My son I sit and read with now has really low articulation but I know what he is saying -- so it makes me not always hear things like that, I am used to just adjusting what I hear.

So if those are being missed that is more than initial blends. Having a hard time with initial blends is a fine stage to be going through.

Missing short vowel sounds is a lot more of a red flag to me, I think.

If she misses short vowels I think -- go back to short vowels and don't add in too much else. She needs to be solid on short vowels; that is important to be solid on.

I also agree on working on words and sentences, not jumping in to stories. Unless she is really motivated by stories. My son right now -- he just wants to read. He doesn't want to do reading practice. Really he should be doing reading practice, not just reading ----- but it is what he wants to do and he is very motivated to do it, and has zero enthusiasm for the kinds of reading stuff I think he should be doing.

So I get that.

If you have options for what she is willing to use -- I think it seems a bit of a slog to read this, when she doesn't have the comprehension (because she reads too slow -- which is normal, to not have comprehension while she is reading slow).

But if she likes it, or if she re-reads and gets better, and that is motivating to her -- that counts for a lot.

I also agree -- if you see her miss things as you read this way, I would work on that with individual words, too.

Honestly I only noticed that initial blends.

Also ----- it is really common for my sons' to miss something in the beginning of a word, and then that throws them off later in the word; but it will be something they really do know; they are just overwhelmed from the beginning of the word. I saw that a lot with initial blends so I might have missed things from being used to that.

I think I also may mentally adjust for fatigue -- for them to have fatigue and make mistakes as they read.

She did (to me) a lot of reading for being at that sounding-out-words stage. She did a lot of sustained reading. My sons would have fatigue errors with that probably. I would have tried to pre-work on some words before reading that passage, to try to not have the fatigue. Both my boys are also tending to be frustrated and would have been frustrated to be reading/sounding out for that long all at once. It is hard to read at this stage when there is not much fluency. It is draining. I was really impressed by that with her.