I thought Math Mammoth was going to be a good fit

[Jame]

I know it's only the first week of school, but so far Math Mammoth has not been going well for us. My son went through Horizons 2 last year, so I thought he would be able to do Math Mammoth 3. The mental math has him frustrated and he gets most if not all of the answers wrong. I'm taken back a bit by this, because math concepts usually come so easily for him. I thought about having him do the answers in the way I was taught, with one number on top of the other, but I would really like him to understand mental math. I really wish I was taught this way!

 

Has anyone else had this issue? 

 

 

[Jess4879]

Did you give him the placement test?  It could be that he just needs to start at a different level.  I have never used Horizon's math, so I'm not sure how it compares. 

[MeaganS]

My guess is that you are having problems because MM teaches differently than he's used to. If I recall, Horizons is more traditional in its style. You probably either need to go back a bit or review concepts that they are expecting him to know. MM works hard to establish its mental math method, and he's missed 2 years of practicing their style.

Edited September 7, 2017 by Meagan S

[8filltheheart]

Or it could be as simple as readjusting back to a new school yr.  Sometimes the first couple of week back are rough for some kids regardless.

 

FWIW, I don't think it is b/c he is encountering new material that he hasn't seen before.  Once upon a time I owned MM 3-6.  I had been teaching Horizons multiple times for well over a decade y that point.  I went through the MM books and the actual material isn't that much different.  It is mastery vs spiral which makes a huge impact in how it looks when presented. But, all in all, I found them to be pretty comparable.

 

I would give him a few more weeks and see if it gets better.  If not, he may not do well with a mastery program.  Some kids get really frustrated by such a strong single concept focus for an entire lesson.

[alisoncooks]

When we made the switch to MM, we had to backtrack a bit to get some concepts under our belt.

[SporkUK]

One of the best recommendations I got when I switched over from MEP is if you got the big PDF set, do the review pages from the earlier years first before jumping in. That gives a gentle introduction to the style on things they likely know and helps catch any areas that weren't covered or mastered (mine all got completely lost in measurements which I didn't know about). If you just have your current year, then the author also has homeschoomath which has free worksheets, one from each section on the previous years would likely be similar. 

[Syllieann]

When you say he gets most or all of them wrong, do you mean out of the mental math problems or all the problems?

 

The mental math in mm might require more working memory than he has available. You could try writing out the mental steps so that he can learn the strategy. You could also skip the section for now and do 1 mental math problem each day while continuing on in the rest of the work text...or perhaps just part of a problem. For example, "hmm, I want to know what 2875-398 is, but i just don't want to think that hard. I wonder if there is a way we could adjust this to make it easier." If he doesn't get it, you could point out that 398 is vey close to 400, and then look pensive. If it dawns on him what to do about that, praise him, and then figure out the the rest yourself, writing it on a whiteboard. Build each strategy up this way until he says, duh, mom, I get it.

 

If you don't feel equipped to teach that way you could do speed maths from fan math a grade behind mm and just skip the mental math in mm altogether. Or if it's the mastery style causing problems you could go back to horizons and add the fan math supplement.

Edited September 7, 2017 by Syllieann

[jgrabuskie]

Yes, I have had that problem with Math Mammoth. Honestly, it gave my DS9 fits. However, I used modules last year to shore up math learning. DS scored 5th level in 3rd grade and his level of understanding math is excellent. To help with the mental math issue, I teach it as another method of solving problems. We are in 4th grade and pretty hands on. I continue to model how I would solve it mentally out loud. Slowly, DS has come around. It will take time but I find that if you look ahead to the test (even if you dont give) you can see how much emphasis the author is requiring and adjust accordingly. I have used 2 other math programs and had issues with the 1st chapter or so, then clear sailing.

 

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[Jame]

Yes, I have had that problem with Math Mammoth. Honestly, it gave my DS9 fits. However, I used modules last year to shore up math learning. DS scored 5th level in 3rd grade and his level of understanding math is excellent. To help with the mental math issue, I teach it as another method of solving problems. We are in 4th grade and pretty hands on. I continue to model how I would solve it mentally out loud. Slowly, DS has come around. It will take time but I find that if you look ahead to the test (even if you dont give) you can see how much emphasis the author is requiring and adjust accordingly. I have used 2 other math programs and had issues with the 1st chapter or so, then clear sailing.

 

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Your comment is just what I needed. I have MUS Gamma on backup, but I want him to to be challenged even more. I believe MM is more of a challenge? We did a few lessons of Gamma over the summer and he finished quickly and it didn't really challenge him. MM really makes him think. The issue is that after a few problems he doesn't want to think anymore about doing the mental math questions. When you say you "teach it as another method", do you allow him to write it with the bigger number on top and smaller number on the bottom? I considered telling him he could write the problems that way, but keep showing him the mental way of doing it. And hopefully, like your son, he'll come around. He is so used to math coming easy for him, that MM is really pushing him. I do think that's a good thing and he hopefully will realize that it's ok not to know the answers right away.

 

Thanks for all the answers so far!! 

[SilverMoon]

I'd chalk it up to what we call "summer brain rust." Plenty is forgotten or rusted over the summer if you don't work through it. I'd give it more time and patience to sort itself out. :)

 

Fwiw, my Horizons kids were wicked good at mental math. It might not teach it in boxes that say Mental Math, but it taught the necessary skills to mastery.

[Bluegoat]

If he's never done mental math, he might need to go back and learn the techniques in earlier years.  The questions at his grade level might just seem a bit intimidating, and so he's winging it a bit.

 

If that's the issue, I think it is worthwhile to do it - it's really useful to be able o think that way.  Some kids learn it themselves, but not all.

[Paige]

My DS who has always been excellent in math had to take the first few chapters of MM very slowly. It was a different way of doing things and an adjustment period should be expected. He began in 3rd grade after PS and he actually did test into 3rd. My DD who began w/ MM had an easier time.

 

My other DDs were terrible fits with MM and I persevered for too long, however. A few chapters of adjusting and struggles are ok, but I wish we'd switched earlier when the "adjustment" seemed to go on all year. ( for years- I'm apparently slow to give in on some things) If I were you, I'd give him a solid semester or quarter before judging if it's a good fit or not, but not much longer than that.

[Jame]

My DS who has always been excellent in math had to take the first few chapters of MM very slowly. It was a different way of doing things and an adjustment period should be expected. He began in 3rd grade after PS and he actually did test into 3rd. My DD who began w/ MM had an easier time.

 

My other DDs were terrible fits with MM and I persevered for too long, however. A few chapters of adjusting and struggles are ok, but I wish we'd switched earlier when the "adjustment" seemed to go on all year. ( for years- I'm apparently slow to give in on some things) If I were you, I'd give him a solid semester or quarter before judging if it's a good fit or not, but not much longer than that.

 

Math has always been my son's stong subject, so I think he became frustrated with something that didn't just click right away. I tried again today, but he became very upset, so I'm going to do MUS and bring in some MM for mental math as an extra challenge. MM introduces mental addition AND subtraction right away and he was getting confused with how and when to do it. He also dislikes the very busy pages. I think I may end up doing MUS Gamma and part of Delta for 3rd grade and add in Beast Academy. 

 

I really like MM, but I don't think it'll work for ds as a full curriculum.

[tdbates78]

Mammoth Math was a really bad fit for us as well...I have Rod & Staff 1, Horizons 1, Singapore 1 and Mammoth Math 1. Mammoth Math is the only one that was torture for both of us to get through....Singapore is a similar style but has fewer problems on a page and is colorful with cartoons. My son needs this kind of thing to stay motivated (He was 4.5 when we were starting these programs.) Mammoth Math has so many problems on a page and it is just so dry. It also seems to only teach math facts through solving for the unknown which is not really very fun. My son is enjoying Singapore now that he has many of his up to 10 math facts down. But I think Singapore's number bonds, learned through cute picture games, is still much more approachable than Mammoth Math straight up solving for the unknown. I'm sure if the book was designed quite differently it would be a different story, but as it is, there are just too many problems on a page which is too overwhelming for a young child.

 

I heard so many good things about Mammoth Math, I was expecting to love it. It was hard to realize it didn't work for us at all. I think Mammoth Math 1 might work well for a more mature 7 year old actually in 1st grade, but not for a younger child who is moving forward in math. Not sure if any of this resonates with your experience, but thought I'd share!

Sadly it didn't work for us last year as well. My girls just could not retain the information and it was dry. Every day it would come with whining. Finally, despite being secular homeschoolers, we switched to CLE and the difference was immediate, like night and day. For my children the gentle spiral approach is a much better fit.

Edited September 11, 2017 by tdbates78