Tired of Tapestry - High School History recommendations?

[irizarry4]

I have used Tapestry of Grace for 5.5 years now. I am just pooped. It is a very rich curriculum, but I just can't keep up. I always feel behind. It takes the kids so many hours a week to do all the reading and answer all the history questions. And that is not even counting all the Church history and Geography. We are not even doing any of the Literature just because we can't fit it in. And I don't have the time to prepare so much stuff.

 

Any recommendations on a substitute? I would prefer a Christian world view. I don't mind textbooks at this point. I just can't keep buying so many books and trying to remember to check so many others out from the library. I am looking for something they can mostly do on their own. I have two: 8th and 10th grades right now. 

 

 

[freesia]

I have used Tapestry of Grace for 5.5 years now. I am just pooped. It is a very rich curriculum, but I just can't keep up. I always feel behind. It takes the kids so many hours a week to do all the reading and answer all the history questions. And that is not even counting all the Church history and Geography. We are not even doing any of the Literature just because we can't fit it in. And I don't have the time to prepare so much stuff.

 

Any recommendations on a substitute? I would prefer a Christian world view. I don't mind textbooks at this point. I just can't keep buying so many books and trying to remember to check so many others out from the library. I am looking for something they can mostly do on their own. I have two: 8th and 10th grades right now. 

[Guest]

How about Biblioplan or MFW? We use Biblioplan for grades 5-8, and I am planning to start MFW AHL with my oldest in Sept.

We have enjoyed using BP and I will be using it it again with my youngest. I have the materials for AHL and am vey impressed,

but don't have any experience using it yet. Maybe someone else will chime in on this.

 

Editing to say: We have changed our plans for high school. Instead of MFW, we will be using Notgrass as written for World, American, Gov./Econ. . Once I received and reviewed the World History curriculum package from Notgrass, I found it to be more than enough on its own. This way, we can also add in a year of geography in 9th. MFW looks great, but it's just more than we need.

[Mom22ns]

Any recommendations on a substitute? I would prefer a Christian world view. I don't mind textbooks at this point. I just can't keep buying so many books and trying to remember to check so many others out from the library. I am looking for something they can mostly do on their own. I have two: 8th and 10th grades right now. 

 

Christian, adding in textbooks, and independent, it sounds like you are crying out for MFW :).

[ktgrok]

I have used Tapestry of Grace for 5.5 years now. I am just pooped. It is a very rich curriculum, but I just can't keep up. I always feel behind. It takes the kids so many hours a week to do all the reading and answer all the history questions. And that is not even counting all the Church history and Geography. We are not even doing any of the Literature just because we can't fit it in. And I don't have the time to prepare so much stuff.

 

Any recommendations on a substitute? I would prefer a Christian world view. I don't mind textbooks at this point. I just can't keep buying so many books and trying to remember to check so many others out from the library. I am looking for something they can mostly do on their own. I have two: 8th and 10th grades right now. 

 

I didn't even make it a year with TOG, so good for you! Biblioplan is like "Tapestry Lite" from what I can tell. And more planned out.  Just a thought.

[irizarry4]

Christian, adding in textbooks, and independent, it sounds like you are crying out for MFW :).

 

Does MFW include literature? I would love something that includes literature. I am a voracious reader, but have never been excited about formal literary analysis. So I am EXTREMELY LAZY to teach it. I'd rather go to the dentist....every day.

 

[cbollin]

Does MFW include literature? I would love something that includes literature. I am a voracious reader, but have never been excited about formal literary analysis. So I am EXTREMELY LAZY to teach it. I'd rather go to the dentist....every day.

 

yes it does.   It's all scheduled in there.  in AHL (Ancient History and LIt,), books include a condensed poetic version of Gilgamesh, Bulfinch's Mythology, Homer (Iliad and Odyssey).  Then they give a "fun" list of optional reading for those who love to read and get it done quickly.  And suggest if that's not enough, to use a classics list such as the one in the SAT prep book they sell.  includes literature guide for some of the books, not all.  that way you can enjoy and do analysis.

 

WHL, 10th grade World Hist and Lit... I"m too lazy to do copy and paste... go to their package contents list and look at the English part.  it lists the titles that are scheduled.   here's link

http://www.mfwbooks.com/products/16/World-History-and-Literature/#Package_Contents

 

also in that year there is a longer list in the back of the lessons planner of historical fiction that can be read optionally.  sorted by when it would make sense along with history.

 

US 1 -- yep..  American Lit year.

 

US2 - the English credit includes a list of 18 or so novels that are modern lit that still go with history being studied. but to keep cost down and to make it more personalized they aren't in the package.

 

 

My oldest used their stuff all the way through with some help from me.   Middle gal is using it, needs more help from me.  But we love how it's all planned out and scheduled each day.  pre-trimmed.  I use audio books to help middle gal.  and we do Church History in Plain Language together.  I read it and then teach/summarize from it. 

[ktgrok]

I'm jealous of MFW users. It's what I want, except it uses BJU stuff, and I won't use BJU stuff. :(

[cbollin]

Katie, bummer.   just thinking out loud.....  in US 2, it would be easy to tweak out the last half of BJU.  in US 1, hmm...  it is my opinion, that if one were to piece together, or sell parts of package you don't like, that you could use a different textbook if you were willing to schedule it out by same/similar topics.  mfw only uses one bju book (US history not world history).   so one in theory could use a different US history text and go at similar topics in chronological order.  pause that text when MFW switches to Gov't credit in US 1,   maybe that would work in 11th grade for you or someone else thinking "if they didn't have this one publisher... and I bought just pieces....."  yes, the cost of the lesson planner would still be worth it even doing a little bit of work to schedule in other text for history.

 

for me?  the book that I didn't really like in mfw's stuff was the Am. Lit supplement based on Stobaugh products.  blech. definitely plan to modify for middle child.  :)

 

 

[Julie in MN]

I'm jealous of MFW users. It's what I want, except it uses BJU stuff, and I won't use BJU stuff. :(

 

We used MFW and I didn't use the BJU set.  I actually like the set just fine, but ds wasn't cooperating with it, and he was doing dual enrollment so he was getting the textbook experience there.  I did get the full package with BJU and kept it "in case" he grew into it, but he didn't.

 

It was just a matter of one semester of one class in 11th and the same in 12th (so 1/6th or less of each year).  I just subbed with what I already had from an older dd (before MFW had high school); those particular semesters are pretty self-contained. 

 

Julie

[irizarry4]

I'm jealous of MFW users. It's what I want, except it uses BJU stuff, and I won't use BJU stuff. :(

 

Curious. Why won't you use BJU stuff?

[ktgrok]

Curious. Why won't you use BJU stuff?

 

I'm Catholic and they have a history of referring to the Catholic Church as a cult, amongst other things. 

[cbollin]

not trying to say to use BJU (or otherwise I wouldn't have suggested how to use mfw but skip bju ;)

 

This probably isn't going to come across right.  my daughter used the one bju book in mfw program, and she is very happy to attend a Catholic university because they like to be active in faith and service as part of college experience.  That was one of the big selling points for her. But all the same, I'm glad we didn't have a lot of bju stuff over the years because I hear that issue about bju too.   part of me wants to say mfw isn't like that even though they picked one text from bju  and we certainly don't think that way (especially since my dh's extended family is catholic).   and the other part of me just wants to shut up and go get another one of those chocolate truffle things that MIL got us.  LOL.  well, how about that.. I can have both  LOL.  

[ktgrok]

not trying to say to use BJU (or otherwise I wouldn't have suggested how to use mfw but skip bju ;)

 

This probably isn't going to come across right.  my daughter used the one bju book in mfw program, and she is very happy to attend a Catholic university because they like to be active in faith and service as part of college experience.  That was one of the big selling points for her. But all the same, I'm glad we didn't have a lot of bju stuff over the years because I hear that issue about bju too.   part of me wants to say mfw isn't like that even though they picked one text from bju  and we certainly don't think that way (especially since my dh's extended family is catholic).   and the other part of me just wants to shut up and go get another one of those chocolate truffle things that MIL got us.  LOL.  well, how about that.. I can have both  LOL.  

 

I think it came across fine. I get it. I hear nothing anti-catholic being said about MOH, I just won't support BJU. Can't do it. I do appreciate the other advice though!

 

I actually just bought Biblioplan as it looks pretty easy to tweak, and includes most of what I want. Thank you though!

[cbollin]

yeah on biblioplan.  happy dancing with you! one of my local friends who wanted mfw (in terms in books/lesson plans that stuff)  but it wasn't a good fit when they tried it, really likes biblioplan a LOT!  She gets all excited how well it works and easy to schedule. So I'm hoping it turns out for you as great as it is for her  There's always something special about the right fit and hearing friends be excited about getting to do high school work at home. :) 

[ktgrok]

Thank you! That is so nice of you, to cheer me on. I really do hope it works out. It's always such a big decision!

[irizarry4]

I was looking at Biblioplan today and it looks really appealing. MFW looks like it still requires a lot of extra books? Maybe I just am not understanding the curriculum right. After 5.5 years of poring over living books with TOG and spending hours on AQs and TQs my dc's eyes lit up at the mention of a textbook and a few fill-in-the-blank questions. LOL

 

[cbollin]

 MFW looks like it still requires a lot of extra books? Maybe I just am not understanding the curriculum right.

 

not at the high school level.  everything is in the package in 9th, 10th,11th..  There are optional reading ideas for the student who just has to read all.the.time. and wants more. or if you need to do more school hours each day and like to do that from reading, then use extra stuff. My oldest never needed more reading.  She did other school time with fun stuff like community service, archery, and learning computer programming stuff.  but she had plenty to read from the package. Middle gal:  if she finishes the schedule English reading early that day, she spends time working on her personal fan fiction writing journal.  MFW just gives more lists for the super mom and/or super motivated student. (which isn't us..... giggle.  and yet my oldest still made dean's list this semester in college.. sorry, I had to get my mommy brag in somewhere.  neat feeling actually, but I digress again.)

 

in 12th grade... they (mfw) give a list of about 18 or so novels for modern literature. parent and student pick how many to do and just get them from library to keep cost the down. very flexible in that year.

 

I hear you about just ready to do worktext, etc.    I'm that way, but my middle gal isn't there.   the things that we add to mfw for middle gal tend to be stuff to help her (audio book, or a video of something before reading.  those are just teaching methods that we add to help her, and not required in the program.)

[Delighted3]

Have you looked at Notgrass?  It is very independent and includes a literature and textbook combo approach.  There is almost no teacher planning.  You have to have the books available and grade the work.  It counts as Bible/literature/history credits.

HTH,

Joy

[ktgrok]

FYI - I got my Biblioplan stuff in the mail yesterday! I only ordered it the day after Christmas, I didn't expect it to even have shipped yet, let alone arrive! The companion is now a hardcover book, really nicely done. The family guide has the annotated book lists for literature, AND lists of movies, AND lists of other curricula you could use if you wanted...so unit one lists which History Pockets and such would go along with the timeline. Really impressed so far. 

 

Now, to convince them they should schedule in some Catholic history textbooks, lol. 

[irizarry4]

I am torn between Biblioplan and MFW, on several aspects

 

-- Biblioplan seems much more affordable. A welcome change after 5 years of ToG

-- Concerned that MFW US History in HS only counts for 1/2 credit. The credit is split between 11th and 12th grade?

-- With Biblioplan it seems I could put both my 7th grader and my 10th grader in their Advanced level while MFW each student would need to be on a different track (doubling cost, I might add)

-- MFW worldview stuff looks interesting

[TechWife]

I am torn between Biblioplan and MFW, on several aspects

 

-- Biblioplan seems much more affordable. A welcome change after 5 years of ToG

-- Concerned that MFW US History in HS only counts for 1/2 credit. The credit is split between 11th and 12th grade?

-- With Biblioplan it seems I could put both my 7th grader and my 10th grader in their Advanced level while MFW each student would need to be on a different track (doubling cost, I might add)

-- MFW worldview stuff looks interesting

 

The Am. History and Am. Government are integrated, which is why only part of each is covered each year. If your student completes the entire two year program, you can award credits like this:

 

Junior Year: 

American History w/American Government to 1877 - 1 credit (or you could split this and award 1/2 credit to American History to 1877 and 1/2 credit to American Government)

American Literature - 1 credit

Biblical Worldview - 1 credit

 

Senior Year: 

American History 1877-present w/Economics - 1 credit (or you could split this and award 1/2 to American History 1877-present and 1/2 credit to Economics)

Modern Literature - 1/2 credit

Speech - 1/2 credit (optionally you could list Modern Literature with Speech - 1 credit)

Practical Christian Living - 1 credit

 

I arrived at this combination after thoroughly reading the descriptions. 

 

I love MFW! 

[cbollin]

agreeing with techwife on the credit thing.  The way English ended up on my oldest dd's transcript was a little differently named per my cover school's request.   They just wanted it called English 11 and English 12.  each one year's credit.

 

The US history in mfw, we did 1/2 credit US HIstory in 11th and 1/2 credit in 12th.  Listed Gov't in 11th (semester credit) and Econ in 12th for semester.

The colleges my dd applied to didn't care about when US History was taken, as long as it was taken.    And since US History part 2 was showing as In Progress for first semester of 12th grade, they were fine with it. rolling admissions in fall, and strong ACT, we were set.

 

12th grade bible credit. We only did a semester's worth of stuff.  called it Spiritual Disciplines, although I liked techwife's title better.   But we didn't bother with the 2nd semester "build your own" bible credit based on what you did in first semester.

 

and we gave the 1/2 credit from geography in mfw because she did the 1/4 credit in 10th grade and 1/4 in 12th.  looking back I'm not sure it was needed. but it's all good I guess based on the mommy brag up the thread..

 

 

Yes, with MFW the 7th and 10th graders would have to be in different programs. depth of material, level of assignments. level of maturity. 

Usually easier to find the younger mfw stuff on used market.   There's still various components in BP for various levels to use (probably not as expensive as 2 things from mfw).

 

 

[irizarry4]

So if I go with Biblioplan instead of MFW what would I be missing out on?

 

[ktgrok]

Biblioplan doesn't have economics. I plan on outsourcing that as a dual enrollment class, I think. 

[irizarry4]

Biblioplan doesn't have economics. I plan on outsourcing that as a dual enrollment class, I think. 

 

I was planning on using "Whatever Happened to Penny Candy" with associated workbook for Econ.

[TechWife]

So if I go with Biblioplan instead of MFW what would I be missing out on?

 

Looking at this page: 

History of US by Hakim is not really high school level, IMO

Mystery of History requires a lot of planning on the teacher's part that isn't required in MFW

High School guide written to the student in MFW, written to the teacher in Biblioplan

Reading material is selected and scheduled for you in MFW, you don't have to choose from a list, so it requires less reading & research time on your part

Bible is only one year in Biblioplan, it is in every year of MFW

Church History is only one year in MFW, it is integrated throughout all of the history in MFW

There is less juggling of resources in MFW - you need the student's guide (it contains all the student needs as well as discussion points for the weekly meeting time), timeline and the books. For Biblioplan, you need the Family Guide, the Companion, the Discussion Guide, the timeline and the books. 

 

 

Basically, I think that the biggest difference is that MFW is more "open and go" than Biblioplan. While Biblioplan does allow for the whole family to study the same time period of history more easily, that ability requires more planning and involvement on the teacher's part.  I think you'll have to decide which is more important to you, saving time planning or having everyone do the same thing. 

 

As a matter of course, high school is usually the time when homeschool students begin to differentiate their studies from their younger siblings. This, in part is largely due to college entrance requirements and the differences in output at the high school level. 

 

Also, think about which one fits into your high schooler's four year plan better. 

[irizarry4]

One of the things I have to keep in perspective is that we sort of have history overload after 5+ years of ToG. I do need "open and go", but I don't want us to be history majors anymore. Will MFW be a pre-planned ToG where my dc are spending a lot of time on history? Or is it okay to do Biblioplan just with their companion, without MOH for High School, just so my ds can refresh his American history and maybe study for the CLEP? And my 7th grader can read History of US, maybe?

 

I don't mean to sound lazy or uninterested in a college-bound education. (I went to grad school at Stanford; if anything it's the opposite). But both my dc have already developed thirst and skill for acquiring knowledge (Right now they are watching a documentary on eels --their choice-- and we are on Christmas break) so at this point we really are just checking grad requirement boxes for my 10th grader and throughout prayer and assessments trying discover potential areas of specialization. I don't know if I'm being clear. Maybe I'm just worn out. (mothers of 10 feel free to roll on the floor laughing)

[TechWife]

I think that your kids will probably be spending less time on history than ToG with MFW. It felt very balanced to me, honestly. There was plenty of time for ds to do other things as far as having time for other subjects and pursuing personal interests

[Julie in MN]

I was planning on using "Whatever Happened to Penny Candy" with associated workbook for Econ.

 

My son read this as a (fairly small) part of MFW's Econ credit.  It is my personal opinion that by itself, it will only provide a streamlined Libertarian view of a completely free market which has never existed and so is still theoretical. 

 

Economics in a Box is also very conservative and of course it's much more work (used in 12th grade), but it does address a wider range of real-life situations and challenges within a free market system, and is willing to discuss the role of limited government (as opposed to no government).  The primary book is Common Sense Economics (excluding the section on personal finance), and it uses 2 other books and many videos & articles.

 

Hopefully that is helpful and not too opinionated.

Julie

[jenamiles]

I just bought Biblioplan (the all digital version) for my 3rd and 9th grader. I bought both Ancients and Early Modern because I'm still not sure which I want to cover. (While we should start with Ancients, we are travelling the East Coast this next year which means our travels ALL tie in to Early Modern and just think it would be cool to do it at the same time.)

 

I tried TOG and was overwhelmed 2 years ago.  We did MFW this last year and we didn't like it.  While I loved the idea of it, my kids found it fairly boring and it turned in to just checking the boxes.  I really want something that has some flexibility in choices but is also laid out.  Biblioplan seems to be the perfect balance between the two.  As far as planning goes, I spent last night (maybe 2 hours) planning out half the year and figuring what books to buy when.  Now that that is done, I don't think it will require much more planning on my part than MFW was.  As an added bonus, this year I would have had to buy 2 different programs for my kids which would have cost me about $650 from MFW.  Total for Biblioplan was about $350 and we can do almost everything together.  I can also plug in the right level of literature/writing expectations each year so I have flexibility in what time period we cover.  VS MFW where once you get to High School you really have to do everything in the right order.  Lastly, because we live in our RV and travel, the fact that the majority of Biblioplan is digital is a huge bonus.

[staceyd71]

Hi, we are using Biblioplan year 3 for highschool (10th) this year. The companion alone is enough for highschool. He is also watching Teaching Company lectures and The American Heritage on Netflix. The companion is very interesting and covers World and American very thoroughly. Biblioplan Family Guide is very well done and easy to follow. My son uses it on his own. It also has movies and literature scheduled each week. Year 3 is scheduled by 6 units and takes 6 week each. The literature planning is done for you and all you do is choose which books for each unit you want to read. It don't take long at all. I purchase our books before each unit and use Glencoe Literature guides, which is free. Also, it is only three days a week. My son is also doing the Government scheduled in year 3 and he is enjoying all of it! We spread it out in 5 days and it flows very nicely. I was all ready to order Sonlight core 300 for next year to study the 20th century because he requested that core. But he informed me that he really likes Biblioplan and don't want to change. He says he learning so much and loves the Fascinating Facts in the companion. I have been where you are and it is tough.   Praying for you, Stacey

[irizarry4]

Hi, we are using Biblioplan year 3 for highschool (10th) this year. The companion alone is enough for highschool. He is also watching Teaching Company lectures and The American Heritage on Netflix. The companion is very interesting and covers World and American very thoroughly. Biblioplan Family Guide is very well done and easy to follow. My son uses it on his own. It also has movies and literature scheduled each week. Year 3 is scheduled by 6 units and takes 6 week each. The literature planning is done for you and all you do is choose which books for each unit you want to read. It don't take long at all. I purchase our books before each unit and use Glencoe Literature guides, which is free. Also, it is only three days a week. My son is also doing the Government scheduled in year 3 and he is enjoying all of it! We spread it out in 5 days and it flows very nicely. I was all ready to order Sonlight core 300 for next year to study the 20th century because he requested that core. But he informed me that he really likes Biblioplan and don't want to change. He says he learning so much and loves the Fascinating Facts in the companion. I have been where you are and it is tough.   Praying for you, Stacey

 

I am trying to find those Netflix titles but couldn't. "Teaching Company lectures and The American Heritage on Netflix" Help.

[staceyd71]

I am sorry for not explaining clearly. Teaching Company is The Great Course Company. It is not on Netflex. He is watching Early American History: Native American through the Forty-Niners. He watched  World History: The Fertile Crescent to American Revolution last year and enjoyed it, so we continued. He also takes notes during lectures. The American Heritage is on Netflex but on DVD not streaming. He really is enjoying American Heritage also. It is available at Christian Book Store. They both are working out well. We also watch the movie's and documentary scheduled in guide when we can. Nothing extra is necessary with Biblioplan. It is really full but I already had Teaching Company so I scheduled it in. You could print out three weeks samples with Biblioplan to see if you like it. Their customer service is awesome. Please let me know if you have any questions. Stacey

[irizarry4]

Thanks, Stacey. I was excited at the prospect of there being Teaching Co. videos on Netflix. :-)

 

[scrapbookbuzz]

I'm jealous of MFW users. It's what I want, except it uses BJU stuff, and I won't use BJU stuff. :(

 

Not all of it is BJU stuff. In fact we have AHL and I have yet to see BJU stuff in it.

The only BJU stuff I have is what I have supplemented: math and American Government,

and that's only because I could borrow it or get it for free! You can always substitute your 

own books, I'm sure. I perused the Notgrass history books while on a trip this summer and

love how it's laid out. Simple and easy to understand and definitely from a Biblical world

view. 

 

And I like the way it's scheduled. Daily, each assignment a separate block, with 

empty blocks for you to write in math, science,electives, etc. It's a great guide!

 

[mommaduck]

Katie, I've used MFW without the BJU stuff. I use it mostly as a guide and and can switch up certain areas ;) I've used it before and after conversion. Heroes of the Faith is another set of books we no longer use from it.

[ktgrok]

Katie, I've used MFW without the BJU stuff. I use it mostly as a guide and and can switch up certain areas ;) I've used it before and after conversion. Heroes of the Faith is another set of books we no longer use from it.

 

Thanks!  We ended up using Catholic Textbook Company's materials to finish last year with, and are trying Bookshark this year. Notgrass was also a consideration, I let him choose between them. So this year will be Bookshark's version of Core 100 history plus Sonlight American Literature 430. We shall see. It's a LOT of reading, but he's a really good/fast reader when he wants to be. And then, even if the extra stuff doesn't get done, I realized I feel okay with his education if he at least read a bunch of books. And it's a good habit to form. (we will substitute watching the plays for reading the plays in the literature part though).