Learning Disability: How do you know?

[desertflower]

Hello,

 

How do you know if a child has learning disability?

 

I know someone who doesn't recognize all his letters and numbers.  He may also not able to count, according to his parents. I tried something to see what his parents what talking about.  I had 2 balls in each hand and asked him how many balls do I have.  I couldn't quite understand him (because of his speech problem), but he said something along the lines of 2.  He might of meant 2 in each hand.  So, I put all 4 balls in one hand then asked him how many.  He said that I had 3.  Then he ran off. :)   Nothing wrong with running off.  :)

 

He can sing the alphabet song.  Knows most of his colors and has speech problems.  According to his parents, he has behavior problems as well.  He does act differently than my children.  He is almost 6 years old.

 

Is this the beginning signs of LD?  If so, can you recommend and books or websites I should be reading in case I have to tutor him.  (He's family and his mother wouldn't mind me teaching him because she hates school and hates teaching).  She is forced to homeschool.

 

He is currently in an online school.  I'm afraid that no one wants to admit that he has LD and will spend his kindergarten year trying to get his mom to do extra teaching, then figuring out whats wrong with him the next year, then getting him tested the following year.  I just see them going down that road.  They think that he's not exposed to his letters, so that's why he doesn't know them.  That can be true, but I don't know and that's why I'm asking.

 

Any advise?  And no, I'm not forcing my way in.  If there's something that I can read, like Games for reading by Peggy Kaye and just play games with him then that's great.  Since he's family I see him often and can see him more if needed.  At this point in time, I'm not going to start anything official until he does get tested, but that could be another 3 years and want to help a little bit before than. 

 

Perhaps it's the way he's being taught?  I don't know.  Is this too young to know? 

 

Really out of my elements here.  Would like some good and helpful advice.

 

Thank you for reading this!

 

[EKS]

I assume this person is of kindergarten age?

 

My son had problems recognizing letters, could not count to ten reliably, didn't know the days of the week, and had some speech issues (including late talking).  He has dyslexia.

[desertflower]

Yes, he's in kindergarten.  We suspect dyslexia.

 

Anything I can do to help out while I'm visiting? 

 

Thank you for your reply.

[kbutton]

You'll get better specific suggestions from others with a more similar profile, but I think a couple of mindset things are universal to the whole picture. I would look at some LD websites that have a good reputation, and I would look at checklists. 

 

I think it's actually more important to overcome two mindsets: First, the belief that "my kid doesn't have all the symptoms = the kid is fine" / "but if they really had x, wouldn't this be the real problem" (for example, if they were on the spectrum, they wouldn't have empathy). Secondly, "I know someone whose kid had x, and they turned out fine without intervention." Those are the good stories. Not all stories end this way. 

 

Both of these mindsets have several permutations with the potential to be damaging to a child's long-term success. Of course, some kids are fine without identification, and some kids that have symptoms of problems do not actually have exceptionalities. And some people survive going over Niagara Falls in a barrel. :-) 

 

I know people who struggle as adults because their needs were not identified, or they compensated well enough until ______. I know people that are bitter that they struggled all that time and could have had assistance. Now it's hard to get assistance because those years are gone, and they are pretty trapped by circumstances. In addition, many of the repercussions of learning disabilities have a social toll--if life is more complicated in general, they need more mechanisms for handling life stress, marital stress, kids who have the same issues, money stress due to lost income potential/kids who need therapies. It's not all about school, grades, and a job.

 

You have to be gentle, and you can't destabilize people for nothing, but I think you are right to be concerned that without a little push, this family may not feel a sense of urgency or realize what potential help they can gain.

[PeterPan]

I hope I'm being gracious enough here, since these are your relatives, but is this child receiving speech therapy?  Has he been through EI?  And is he receiving services through the ps for his speech problem?  

 

That mom could request a full eval (psych, speech, etc. etc.) at any time just by writing the letter and asking.  He's in an online school. Is it a public cyber school or a private online school?  If it's a public cyber school, then I *think* they should have procedures and have to follow the law, meaning the same deal: she writes the letter, they pay for the evals.

 

He can't be receiving speech therapy, because a speech therapist would have surely covered letters.  

 

There's probably more going on that you're prepared to handle.  If parents aren't willing to get evals and therapy, WALK AWAY.  Seriously, you don't want to know how un-pretty this can be.  It has NOTHING to do with how generous you are.  It's whether the PARENTS ARE STEPPING UP.  I can't fathom what in the world is a "she's forced to homeschool" situation.  You mean she's living in a country where she has no access to the type of school she wants?  

 

Walk away.  Just walk away.  Peggy Kaye stuff is great, but it won't cut it.  You basically described my ds, and he gets ST, is getting a full psych eval in two weeks (NOT three years from now), needs an OT or PT eval, has had his vision checked by a developmental optometrist.  You don't even WANT to know how weird he is to work with on math.  Everything takes a lot more repetition, smaller steps.  RightStart A got this UTTER BLANK.  It's not like you just do regular things just a little more fun and it clicks.  Everything has too big of steps.  You have to find remediation materials for everything and get in teeny tiny little brain steps so his brain goes *Oh yeah, I can make that leap!* and then you spend session after session doing the same thing, with it a little clearer in the brain each time.

 

My boy STILL stumbles over the number 9 and how to form it with dots.  Wanna know how long we've been working on it?  He is awesome with patterns btw.  He can tell you how many 10s are in 2000, etc. etc.  But form the number 9 with dots, nope, not consistently.  Do written math?  Haven't even TRIED, lol.  What a joke.  

 

A dc with serious speech problems that are untreated will be very frustrated with his inability to communicate and will act it out.  You REALLY don't want to be in the middle of that.  

 

He may end up needing remediation materials for all his skills.  He may need OT.  He probably needs ST.  He needs a full psych eval and could have one and have it be very informative as soon as he turns 6.  It would take a significant amount of time for you to learn how to do all these special materials (since they aren't things you're doing for your own kids) and without those evals you have no assurance you're even approaching it correctly.  

 

So like I said, walk away.  The parents have to solve their problem, and sometimes that's hard to watch.

[PeterPan]

Btw, the last I checked a few years ago, the good dyslexia school around here was $35K a year.  It's probably even more now.  $35K.  That's how much I'm worth to my kid, and that's how much effort I put into learning these remediation materials, therapy techniques, etc.  You can't do that for them, because they don't want it.  His needs will go so much farther than you imagine.  It's when you get in there trying to teach him to read and you realize, Oh man, if his working memory were better, it would help this process.  So then you want to work on working memory and realize you have motor control problems and midline problems and...  SURE you can do that.  That's what we do for our kids.  But to do that for someone else's kid when you're not being paid and they're being uncooperative, unsupportive, oblivious, etc.?  No way.

 

But that's just me.  I suppose somebody else has done it.  I'm sure a lot of us have been *tempted* to do it or offered to help a relative.  It HAS to be their deal.

[desertflower]

Thank you for your comments kbutton and OhElizabeth.

 

OhElizabeth:  I don't know all the acronyms that you wrote (except for OT), but will look them up.  :) 

 

It's informative to know how much time one would have to spend.  Just FYI, the father will be on board eventually.  He's a good guy.  At this point in time everyone is convinced that he has not been exposed to the letters/numbers overall learning, so they are making the mother do more.  The father is helping at nights as well.  The in-laws are helping as well with laundry, dishes and overall cleaning.

 

She is forced to homeschool because her other child has spinal muscular atrophy.  If he ever caught the flu, it could kill him.  And yes, they hardly go anywhere during the winter months.  So, that's why her other child cannot not go to public school.

 

This child is attending a public charter online school.  Thanks for the info on that.  I didn't know about the laws.

 

The mom is a high school drop out so you can imagine how much she values education.

 

I see that it's a long road for this child.  Are there remedial programs out there?  I didn't know that.  Makes sense though now that I think about it.

 

Can you or anyone please suggestion one for reading/phonics and math? 

 

Well lost my train of thought because I had to go and eat.  Thanks again for all the info.  It looks like it may be a lot of work.

 

[desertflower]

I forgot to mention that she does have her GED.

[desertflower]

Oh Elizabeth:  Yes, he did have speech therapy I think when he was 4?  for a little while.....I think insurance ran out.  They are going back next week.  Something about the teacher saying she needed a speech therapist's note.  Oh I get it.....ST = speech therapist.  lol  I already knew what OT meant because of her other child having one.

 

And you are right.  I don't have $35k to spend on him.  But I am willing to go up there once a week and tutor.  I know that's a far cry from what you do everyday.  But hopefully it'll help.  Hopefully they can get someone free through the school though.  :) 

 

I'm just trying to get my facts straighten out. :)

 

All won't be lost.  My kids will be able to visit grandparents more often.  :) 

 

Thank you again for sharing your story. 

 

 

[OneStepAtATime]

It is really great that you want to help, JMcElrath.  And this child may very much need help.  But I agree with Elizabeth, if the parents aren't on board yet with the idea that he has learning challenges this could turn really ugly.  The parents have to be ready to hear that and if they aren't they may get very defensive and even angry.  And if the mom doesn't even want to teach an NT kid, she may really balk at all that may be needed with a non-NT kid.  

 

But yes, there are definitely programs out there to help with many learning issues.  With dyslexia there are things like Barton Reading and Spelling, Wilson, Lindamood Bell, etc.  But they are expensive and very teacher intense and they take a LOOOONG time to complete.  Because that is what it takes to help dyslexics.  And sometimes those programs don't work because there are other issues involved.  Then you have to go back to the drawing board.  If the parents are not committed or are still fighting the idea that there is an issue that needs addressing, helping may be virtually impossible.  Honestly, I would probably try anyway, if I were in your position, but I agree with Elizabeth you may be better off walking away, at least for the time being.

 

I will be honest, when my son was in 4k and a teacher mentioned that he was having trouble with blended sounds I was offended and thought she was crazy.  DS had been talking very clearly since he was just a few months old, sentences before he was 1 and full, complex sentences with advanced vocab by 18 months.  But he DOES have trouble with a couple of very specific blended sound combinations.  And that trouble was the outward sign that he had a bit of an auditory processing glitch that we were not yet prepared to accept existed.  

 

And he had some weird phonics issues and didn't seem to want to read anything on his own.  He only wanted to read after I had read the material to him first.   Why?  Because he is dyslexic but has an amazing gift for recalling anything heard, even just the one time, if it is in narrative form, and not only to remember it but to be able to quote it back verbatim and comprehend what he is saying (even 60-70 page books).  So he was actually memorizing the books I was reading to him then repeating them back.  He was not reading.  And he didn't know the difference and we didn't want to accept that the odd problems he was having spoke to a serious situation that needed addressing.  Until he crashed and burned in 2nd we were totally blind and absolutely did not want to see what was staring us in the face.

 

As for how to help right now, well, I would suggest you might gain something if you read The Mislabeled Child by Brock and Fernette Eide.  And if the parents SEEM amenable to the possibility that the child needs some help further down the road that might be a good book for them to start with.  You could get on the Barton site (linked below) for some additional, quicky, free info on dyslexia.  But without a thorough evaluation you and the parents are shooting in the dark as to what his real strengths and weaknesses/issues might be.  And strengths can mask weaknesses and weaknesses can mask and hinder strengths.  

 

http://www.bartonreading.com/dys.html

 

FWIW, both of my kids are dyslexic.  But they present VERY differently.   Labels and lists of things to look for are really tricky and can lead you down the wrong path.  Without an evaluation from a trained and experienced professional, you could be barking up the wrong tree entirely.  Even professionals frequently have a tough time tweaking out all the strengths and weaknesses...

 

Best wishes, OP.  You care and that is wonderful.  I wish you and this child (and his parents) the very best.

 

 

[PeterPan]

Oh Elizabeth:  Yes, he did have speech therapy I think when he was 4?  for a little while.....I think insurance ran out.  They are going back next week.  Something about the teacher saying she needed a speech therapist's note.  Oh I get it.....ST = speech therapist.  lol  I already knew what OT meant because of her other child having one.

 

And you are right.  I don't have $35k to spend on him.  But I am willing to go up there once a week and tutor.  I know that's a far cry from what you do everyday.  But hopefully it'll help.  Hopefully they can get someone free through the school though.  :)

 

I'm just trying to get my facts straighten out. :)

 

All won't be lost.  My kids will be able to visit grandparents more often.  :)

 

Thank you again for sharing your story. 

That's a hard situation!  I guess it's not very encouraging, but I knew a lady years ago who homeschooled who was a high school dropout who did a FINE job.  Sounds like this lady has a lot on her plate!  It doesn't seem very tenable to keep a child home, isolated from his peers, but I'm sure they're already stressed over that.  

 

If the cyber school is state-funded, they may be able to kick in with a LOT more.  She needs to ask.  In our state you have the state medicaid for children, services through the ps, etc.  I hope they can get connected with whatever resources their state offers.

 

So yes, if you're going to work with him once a week, do basic things: letters, phonemic awareness, read him nursery rhymes, etc.  Do they have a way to bring library books into the house but kill the germs?  If not, maybe a thoughtfully curated list of read aloud books would in order.  A couple really good books that actually get used can go a long way.  Anything from the SL early cores might be welcome.  

[desertflower]

Thank you OneStepAtATime. Your post was most informative. I will read the book. That book has been mentioned in other threads as well. I just forgot. I will also look at the website. Thanks for posting it.

 

Until he gets evaluated I won't do anything. It just took us by surprise what tue father was telling us a we3k ago. But LD would explain a lot.

 

I'm not sure he has LD. But no one has said that it was fine for an almost 6 year old to not be able to recognize his letters.

 

The reason I'm asking for programs is because I'm probably going to be the one who will have to prepare an open and go program for her. I'm not going to do it right now, but at least I know it's out there. I can put it on my list of things to read....

[PeterPan]

Some kids will not be able to hear and discriminate the sounds they can't say.  The problem too is that severe speech intelligibility issues at that age have ugly causes.  He could have apraxia.  Dyslexia and apraxia can occur together.  

 

If you want to do something with him now, you can.  Go through an online list of phonemic awareness skills and just jump in.  Can he hear rhyming?  Once he can hear that, can he hear initial consonants?  Just go through the list.  Probably, given what you've described, he's going to need some time at that level.  Barton has a pretest you could give him.

[desertflower]

Some kids will not be able to hear and discriminate the sounds they can't say. The problem too is that severe speech intelligibility issues at that age have ugly causes. He could have apraxia. Dyslexia and apraxia can occur together.

 

If you want to do something with him now, you can. Go through an online list of phonemic awareness skills and just jump in. Can he hear rhyming? Once he can hear that, can he hear initial consonants? Just go through the list. Probably, given what you've described, he's going to need some time at that level. Barton has a pretest you could give him.

Oh that's great information! I never heard of apraxia before. I never thought about whether or not he can hear rhyming words. He does like the song from Frozen. Lol

 

His previous speech therapist oh excuse me ST ( :) ) said (according to the father) that he couldn't hear 4 consonants. I forgot which ones. I'd like to say f and s were 2 of them.

 

I will definitely go through the list with him next time. Thanks again!

 

Please keep more info coming! Really out of my elements.

[desertflower]

That's a hard situation! I guess it's not very encouraging, but I knew a lady years ago who homeschooled who was a high school dropout who did a FINE job. Sounds like this lady has a lot on her plate! It doesn't seem very tenable to keep a child home, isolated from his peers, but I'm sure they're already stressed over that.

 

If the cyber school is state-funded, they may be able to kick in with a LOT more. She needs to ask. In our state you have the state medicaid for children, services through the ps, etc. I hope they can get connected with whatever resources their state offers.

 

So yes, if you're going to work with him once a week, do basic things: letters, phonemic awareness, read him nursery rhymes, etc. Do they have a way to bring library books into the house but kill the germs? If not, maybe a thoughtfully curated list of read aloud books would in order. A couple really good books that actually get used can go a long way. Anything from the SL early cores might be welcome.

I don't mean to imply that they never leave the house. Lol. They do. Just not often. She's fine with it because she doesn't like the city. As far as I'm concerned she doesn't go to the library often. I did just buy her other son the How to Train yiur Dragon box set one though. :) now I'll have to get them the My First Little House series.

 

I wonder what his reading comprehension is. I guess I'll have to ask....

[OneStepAtATime]

As Elizabeth mentioned, the Barton site I linked upthread has a student test that actually reviews sound discrimination.  It isn't hard to administer and doesn't take all that long but the person doing it and the person taking it need access to a computer and need to be well rested, have NO interruptions and NO distractions.  And the person administering it needs to pass the tutor screening first.  Same basic thing.  You have to be able to hear the sounds distinctly, etc.  It is not testing for dyslexia nor is it an academic test.  

 

It really helped me to see exactly where DS was tripping up on certain blends and consonant sounds.  DD passed without any issues at all.  DS didn't pass.  It was an eye opener and finally helped me realize that the sound issues were causing a lot of his reading problems.  And I could look at the results and see exactly which sounds were causing issues.  We remediated with LiPS then he started on Barton, but he probably should have done more in LiPS.  He is still having some issues.  LiPS really did help, though, and he passed the Barton test after doing LiPS.

 

You might look at ElizabethB's website.  Link to her posts and find her website.  She has tons of great stuff for phonics, etc. that are free....I would find it for you but I don't have time right now.  If you cannot locate it, let me know and I will try to help.

 

As for assistance with math, at his age I would do a lot of hands on stuff, lots of manipulatives, practical application and games.  I will try to remember to link to some great math posts tomorrow if you are interested....

[desertflower]

OIC. Well bummer....I may not do the test. I'm going to see how he does with more ST first. Probably wait a few months then mention the test to them. Perhaps the ST will do it?

 

I have ElizabethB's website saved already. :) I haven't used it though. Thanks fo4 the reminder!

 

I have a lot of math manipulatives. Don't know of any math games except for the book by peggy kaye. Would watching education unboxed help? I'll watch with him.

 

If you remember to post the math websites later that would be great! Whenever you get a chance. I know you are busy. :)

 

Well I'm going to pass out now...... :) Have a nice night.

[OneStepAtATime]

In a hurry but here is a math thread that might help.  A lot of it may be too old for him but it might give you some ideas...

 

http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/499692-looking-to-do-some-relaxed-math-here-want-to-share-ideas/

 

Math U See is a good program, but expensive.  Maybe someone in your area would be willing to lend it to you....

 

And watching education unboxed might help, like you said, but yes watch it with him and discuss what he saw.  There are other videos regarding math on you tube that might be fun for a younger child.  My kids are older so I don't know specific ones off the top of my head but I know other homeschoolers in our area have talked about lots of great options on you tube....

 

I hate to sound like an idiot but what does this mean? "OIC. Well bummer....I may not do the test."

[desertflower]

OneStepAtATime,

 

I was pretty tired last night and might of misunderstood your post.  My eye has been twitching for about 2 weeks and it was getting worst last night.  lol

 

Anyhow, I thought you were talking about the same test OhElizabeth was suggesting.  In that child's house, there is no peace and quiet (t.v. is on all day).  I don't want it to be obvious at this point that I'm testing him until they are convinced that he needs help.  I don't mind sitting at the kitchen table and "playing" math games, etc.  (I could try to incorporate one or two of my children into it as well)  But I doubt they'll let me sit in their room with him to test him, plus he probably would rather play with my children.  :) 

 

Anyhow, I had in mind a simple test that I could print out and hold out in front of me.  I'm not an expert, so I doubt I could administer the test correctly.  But I will see if he knows how to rhyme or can recognize rhyming words. 

 

Thank you for the link!  I'll look into it tonight. 

 

Have a blessed weekend!

[OneStepAtATime]

Well, what you might do is run through the tutor test for yourself on your own computer at home just to see what it is like (won't take all that long) to confirm you can pass it but also to get a feel for what they are seeking.  Then you might just go through the student assessment, just for grins, with one of your own kids to see how it works (again, shouldn't take very long).  That way, you might be able to come up with your own thing for assessing the child based on more solid background knowledge instead of kind of stabbing in the dark and without the need of a computer should the opportunity present itself.  You could use the same assessment sheets that Barton provides.  Just print them out and keep them available....

 

[desertflower]

Thank you! That sounds like a plan. :)

 

Also thank you for the link to the other thread.

 

I have some math u see blocks. Yeah! I was hoping I could use some of my stuff.

 

:)

[Incognito]

FWIW, has he watched the leapfrog letter factory video?  It is the way a LOT of kids have learned their letters/sounds.  Very easy to implement if they have a dvd player. :)

 

ETA:  If he has a busy TV-full household, another important and helpful thing you could do would be to bring a stack of age appropriate books to read with him and your kids.  Reading together promotes a lot of things that help with kids learning to read.  It doesn't solve problems, but it does help a child learn how books work, which way words are read, etc.  You could be intentional about having one or two books that involve counting in there (or ask the kids to count things on the page).

[PeterPan]

OneStepAtATime,

 

I was pretty tired last night and might of misunderstood your post.  My eye has been twitching for about 2 weeks and it was getting worst last night.  lol

 

Anyhow, I thought you were talking about the same test OhElizabeth was suggesting.  In that child's house, there is no peace and quiet (t.v. is on all day).  I don't want it to be obvious at this point that I'm testing him until they are convinced that he needs help.  I don't mind sitting at the kitchen table and "playing" math games, etc.  (I could try to incorporate one or two of my children into it as well)  But I doubt they'll let me sit in their room with him to test him, plus he probably would rather play with my children.  :)

 

Anyhow, I had in mind a simple test that I could print out and hold out in front of me.  I'm not an expert, so I doubt I could administer the test correctly.  But I will see if he knows how to rhyme or can recognize rhyming words. 

 

Thank you for the link!  I'll look into it tonight. 

 

Have a blessed weekend!

If your eye is twitching, maybe you need to go to the chiropractor?  Mine does that when my neck is off (off alignment, out of adjustment).  Simple crack and it's better.  But don't crack yourself, lol.  Go to the chiro.  :)

 

Hmm, think you could discuss with them the idea of tv time and not tv time?  In our house it's not tv time during school time unless it's Quiet Time or expressly for educational purposes.  And usually those two merge.  A basically rule of no tv till 3 except for 1 hour for something educational would do.  She can get audiobooks online through her library and use those instead of tv.  You can get a surprising number of audiobooks for free or almost free ($1-3) through amazon by looking at what classic books they have for free as kindle books and then seeing which ones have audio versions.  It will say something like buy the (free) kindle version and then get the audio for some low price.  It's a way to snag stuff.  Or get them through the library.  Or librivox.  Children need to be in a language-rich environment, and tv isn't it.  Help her find ways to have on more audiobooks during the day.  If she plays cds, help her learn how to request audiobooks on cd through the library.  Free language rich environment.  :)

[desertflower]

I actually don't understand her philosophy on education. I believe in a language rich environment and try to implement it. She doesn't. Not sure why. She believes in let kids be kids, so that's why he hasn't been exposed to letters as much. She thought that I wasn't letting my children be kids by teaching them their letters at such a young age. Shrug. It's not like I was a tyrant. They're in books and I just pointed them out. Or on shows like word world, Super Why, and the leap frog videos.

 

Thank you Incognito and OhElizabeth for letting me know that reading to him will help. I'll probably recommend it to the grandparents and will bring books when I visit. Except for holidays. :)

 

Btw OhElizabeth, I looked up apraxia. I'm not an expert, but I don't think he has that. Thank you for mentioning it.

 

Incognito, I like the leapfrog video too. I think I'll mention it. I'd give mine to her except I have one more child who needs to learn her letters.

 

About my eye.......I'm scared of chiropractors. :) So if you see someone with an eye twitch that'll be me. Lol

[PeterPan]

Well I go back to the walk way thing......  People really have to parent the way they see it.

[desertflower]

Well I go back to the walk way thing......  People really have to parent the way they see it.

 

I probably will.  I'm not going to force anything, but like you said just reading to him will help.  Or playing with math manipulatives will help. 

 

I'm not going to get my hopes up.  You have enlighten me that it's a long road and one has to be there everyday all day teaching him.  (This is info that I needed to hear).  But if I could be a little inspiration to him.......or even help just a little bit........I think that is the best I can do and I can live with that. 

 

This reminds me of an article I read in HEDUA.  It was from a mom's point of view.  She has a son who I think was autistic, and he gave a "love letter" or nice note (can't remember) to a girl.  She grinned at him, thanked him and kept the note.  If I remember correctly I think she sat next to him.  anyhow, this small gesture had an influence on the boy.  The mom was so grateful for this small kindness from her.

 

The bad news is I don't think she has a clue on how to educate her children.  The good news is she's not opposed to me doing science experiments or playing math games with her children.  In fact, she sits back and does facebook.  :)  I don't do facebook. 

[desertflower]

I'm going to keep an eye out for dyslexia.  Looking at the Barton site list that that may be it.  I'll have to wait a few more months to be sure though.  I just like to nip things in the bud, but I guess one doesn't know at this age.

 

This thread has been most helpful for me.

 

Thank you. 

[Jean in Newcastle]

Doesn't an onlline public school expose him to letters and numbers at that age?  I'm wondering if I'm missing something?  Not in how he's doing, but in that reasoning for why he might be having trouble.  

[desertflower]

I wanted to clarify about th3 tv being on all day. I assume it's not on when she's teaching. I was quoting her when I wrote that. To clarify, I was there last week and since no one was watching tv I turned it off. Someone came by and turned it on. I asked if we could leave it off so my kids won't be tempted to watch and that's when she said that the tv is usually on from when they wake up to when they go to bed.

 

Anyhow....just wanted to clear my conscious. :)

 

I have learned a lot. Thanks.

[PeterPan]

Clear your conscience?  :)  It's ok, they are who they are.  I'm just thinking if they like background noise and to not feel alone, they might not have realized they could get that *other* ways like audiobooks.  :)

 

I like your idea of bringing little experiences and kindnesses to them.  You're very kind to make the effort and seem on track.  :)

[desertflower]

Doesn't an onlline public school expose him to letters and numbers at that age? I'm wondering if I'm missing something? Not in how he's doing, but in that reasoning for why he might be having trouble.

Not sure I understand your question.......

It has only been a few weeks. But according to his parents his teacher said that he should be able to recognize his letters by now. In fact, currently he's supposed to be learning sight words now like the word am. The grandma said that this is hard for him. Well now im thinking, sure is. If he doesn't know his letters then it's that much harder to learn sight words.

 

The grandma said that the mom never did preschool with him. The grandma did for a little while though. Not sure how long.

 

I hope this answers your question.

[desertflower]

Clear your conscience? :) It's ok, they are who they are. I'm just thinking if they like background noise and to not feel alone, they might not have realized they could get that *other* ways like audiobooks. :)

 

I like your idea of bringing little experiences and kindnesses to them. You're very kind to make the effort and seem on track. :)

Thank you.

 

I never thought about the reason why she had tv on a lot. Hmmmmmm that is a good point. If that's the case, I will introduce her to librivox and lit2go. It'll be up to her to use it.

 

Thanks for pointing that out. :)

[desertflower]

Doesn't an onlline public school expose him to letters and numbers at that age? I'm wondering if I'm missing something? Not in how he's doing, but in that reasoning for why he might be having trouble.

I'm trying to wrap my head around this too. I guess the parents are raising both of their children the same way and I'm sensing the older one picked up a little faster when he entered kindergarten.

 

I guess it was just a shocker to hear the father sound so concerned. If he's concerned, then we are too.

 

I think we'll know more in a few months. It has helped me to think this out and to be prepared (well somewhat prepared).

[kbutton]

About the not exposing kids to things...when I was little, it was school's job to educate, and while parents might read to their kids, count out loud, or sing the alphabet song, that was about it. I realize some parents don't even do that, but that's about all my parents did. They had met really smart kids who were forced into learning, and they ran the other way with how they approached my brother and I--they didn't want us to be stressed and overburdened. So, I didn't go to preschool, did learn to read extremely well in half-day K, etc. at a time when most kids went to school maybe knowing the alphabet song, but probably not writing or recognizing individual letters. I think of that as "normal," but I am also not a "better late than early" kind of parent, but my data pool was shallow for comparison (I grew up in a small area with a lot of really different and less distracting environments). I can see where a parent may have that sort of scenario in mind, and then they not only have to get around the idea that the teacher expects the kids to already know, but then has to process that "oh, my kid's not picking this up; oh, that's just because we didn't talk about it yet." Then to have to get used to the idea that maybe there is a developmental reason for this lag. That's a lot to process. 

 

So, that's just meant as a perspective--an  "I can see why they might think blah, blah," rather than an argument. I think it's wonderful that you are doing what you can to help, and I hope that it will be exactly clear what you need to do to support or distance yourself as you follow up with all of this. 

[desertflower]

Yes, you may be on to something there, kbutton. My dh and I were talking about this this morning. It was mentioned that perhaps the 2nd child is not picking up as quickly as the 1st. The 1st child is pretty smart. I am going to wait until xmas to reevaluate things. In the meantime, I'll play math games with him.

 

This is the reason why i asked how does one know if a child has LD. He has speech and behavior problems along with not doing well in school so far.

 

OhElizabeth and OneStepAtATime has made some good points for me to look into.

 

Plus, it was so good to read about the laws OhElizabeth pointed out. I don't want to sound selfish, but I was panicking a bit. Lol. I offered to tutor but I didn't/don't know what I'm getting myself into. But it sounds like they may be able to get some help through the school. And........I realize that it's not my job to teach this child.

 

It's so good to talk things out with the hive!

[Incognito]

The letter factory dvd is pretty cheap - you could give it as a special "you're a kindergartener" gift. :)

 

[desertflower]

That's a great idea.  :)

[Mrs. Tharp]

I just wanted to say, from the school's perspective, they will wait and see how he does and likely make recommendations at the end of the year. From their perspective, it's too soon to tell.  The teacher will have a better idea of whether he's a late bloomer or whether there is a significant problem by the end of the year, if not sooner. So will your family. That's not to say they shouldn't get him evaluated sooner! But the handwriting will be on the wall, so to speak, by the end of the year.

 

You are wonderful for wanting to help out and for urging them to be more proactive. With your relative's situation, I would also urge them to learn as much to learn as much about special ed. law as they can, to be able to advocate effectively. It sounds like they need all the help they can get. For example, if the other child truly can't be in ps due to the sibling's illness, what about in-home tutoring? What has the school district offered? An evaluation could open the door to more help, including academics.

[desertflower]

Thank you Mrs. Tharp!  I see your point. 

 

He saw a ST today.  The mother said that the ST thought his speech was delayed due to lack of being around other kids his age.  Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but this doesn't sound right to me.  He's around adults all the time and has a brother a few years older than him.

 

Anyhow, they are looking into having the school pay for the ST sessions.  So, at least there's that. 

 

I've danced around the subject about LD to the grandparents, but I don't think they want to believe it either.

 

We will have to wait and see.  I truly believe if he doesn't recognize his letters by Christmas (they are working with him on this) then he has LD.  Unfortunately,  I think it'll take the whole school year and the teacher for the parents to believe in it. 

 

Reading other posts, it seems that if he has dyslexia it won't hurt him to take a slower approach to phonics anyhow.  Which makes sense now that I think this though.  I think I was in the mindset that he had to know certain things before he was 5 1/2 and was shocked that he doesn't. 

 

I will keep special ed. law in mind.  As you pointed out, the teacher may not know more until the end of the year, so I'll wait until then before saying anything.  (I may squeeze in the Leap frog dvd as a Christmas present  :)  )  No one wants to admit that they have one child with physical disabilities and the other child mental disabilities.  I can understand that. 

 

At least for me, I know I have a few months to read the Mislabeled Child, other posts, and look into Ronit Bird.  :) 

[PeterPan]

You know he has a speech delay, and often times kids will not begin discriminating those sounds until the speech for the sounds comes in.  I suggest you encourage the mother to ask what kinds of things she can do to help his language acquisition.  Play games with him.  All our speech therapy is games.  ALL of it.  Curious George Discovery Beach, Uno, Chutes and Ladders, Trouble, memory/matching games, Go Fish, whatever he has.  They can be simple things from the Dollar Tree, don't have to be expensive.  Play games and TALK about what you're doing.

 

Whose turn is it?  Suzy's turn! What should Suzy do?  Spin!

I got a 3!  Hop 3!  Hop, hop, hop.

I landed on a red!  Your turn!

 

That kind of thing.  Lots of building in language by talking through turn taking, telling people what to do.  If there are cards, we always say "Flip your card!"  We'll say funny little warning things like "Don't roll a 3!"  Lots of saying "I choose..."  

 

Talk, talk, talk.  If you babysit him, tell him everything you're doing.  When I give my ds his vitamins or make him breakfast or brush his teeth, I ask him what to do next.  What do we do first? What do we do next?  

 

I'm glad they're getting him in the system to get him therapy.  :)

[desertflower]

Thank you OhElizabeth!

 

I will do those games sometime this year.  :)

 

They are very helpful suggestions.

[desertflower]

Okay, so I've got some time on my hands because I'm sick and have changed my name.  :) 

 

I was not prepared to do the games and other stuff with my nephew when I saw him last.  I even forgot to give them my copy of the leapfrog dvd!  However, I was able to read to him. :)

 

update:  His teacher said that he had to pass his test that's in the end of November to move forward.  I guess we'll know more then.  I've been talking to the grandparents and reading the book "The Mislabeled Child" and pretty sure he has LD.  Just not sure which one yet. 

 

Off to read more threads........