Started BA 4B today

[Roadrunner]

I think we are just going to AoPS pre-a. We are past what I can see of the 4B samples. We're going to finish up some Singapore and then just go slowly with pre-a. We can always go back and do some additional work on weaker areas if we need to but with backwards boy jumping harder frequently makes the easier arithmetic click.

Are you making a jump after SM 5B? You have a third grader, right?

I was thinking of getting MM supplement for negative numbers in addition to SM 5B.

[Farrar]

Farrar, that's an interesting perspective - one of your guys is a BA kid and one is more of an MM kid, right?  This is on my mind right now, my rising 3rd grader has finished MM2 and is in the 2nd chapter of BA 3A.  Sometimes - like during the geometry chapters - I think, this won't work as a stand alone for her, because some of the really puzzly stuff takes a lot out of her.  I like the idea of having a page or two of easier MM as practice along with the puzzly-challengy BA problems.  But now with the skip-counting chapter, it's fine as a stand-alone - she did 4 pages today, and found it so fun! So I'm thinking that while I'll plan to have BA be our main program, I'll keep MM handy for topics that might need extra practice or review, and for my own peace of mind with the chapter and end of year tests.  She will finish 3A, then have a bit of a break this summer when she does some all-day camps, so I'm thinking the first chapter and maybe the place value chapter of MM3 will be a good review before diving back into BA in August.  Anyway, we'll see how it goes.  I don't want to use both programs in their entirety, and I do want to use all of BA if it keeps working for her, but I can't quite see giving MM up entirely, either . . .  

 

Yeah.  I'm probably biased a bit by the fact that BA didn't work for my MM kid and MM didn't work for my BA kid.  I could see that they could be a good combo for some people.  BA is just weird in some ways - I wish that 4A taught the more traditional multiplication algorithm with regrouping as you go.  And sometimes equal weight is placed on things that really matter (finding the area of a triangle or doing a long division problem) and things that don't really or don't yet (finding the squares of numbers that end in 5).  That's why I had my BA kid do a cheapie Spectrum review math workbook - because he needs more practice with that sort of simple math, interestingly enough.  If MM had worked for him, that could have been what we did.

 

I've also appreciated your JA posts, I have to say.  I have JA because I wanted to see if it was what we're going to aim for and it definitely, definitely is.  I think it's going to be perfect for Mushroom, my Beast kid.  And I'm not sure if AoPS will be where he lands after that or not.  Having done most of the algebra myself for review, I'm not sure if it will be right for him or not, but that's way off still.  The question is what we'll do to get from BA 4B over to pre-algebra (or pre-pre-algebra) readiness.

[FairProspects]

Are you making a jump after SM 5B? You have a third grader, right?

I was thinking of getting MM supplement for negative numbers in addition to SM 5B.

 

We're not really working in one level of Singapore so it is hard to say. We kind of jump around in various chapters from 4B-6A because we have also been doing private tutoring and some other math things so we'll start whenever I feel he is ready, but you are right that I probably need to find something for negative numbers before starting. Otherwise I think we will be ok on concepts.

[Roadrunner]

BA is just weird in some ways - I wish that 4A taught the more traditional multiplication algorithm with regrouping as you go.

I can't multiply BA style. I was so glad we did SM multiplication prior to this, although my kid prefers BA style. Still debating if I should teach SM first to my second Beasty.

I also remember not being too happy about their long division, but can't recollect exactly what threw me off.

[Farrar]

I can't multiply BA style. I was so glad we did SM multiplication prior to this, although my kid prefers BA style. Still debating if I should teach SM first to my second Beasty.

I also remember not being too happy about their long division, but can't recollect exactly what threw me off.

 

Ditto.  I'll be very curious to see it in 4B.  I always struggle with things like this.  Like, should I make the kids go back and do it the more drawn out way over and over?  Just a couple of times?  Not at all?  Both my kids really struggle with that - if they know how to do a more "advanced" version of the algorithm should I make them back up and do it the longer, baby steps way for some reason?  They have trouble doing it sometimes and just get confused.  Oh well.

[FairProspects]

I can't multiply BA style. I was so glad we did SM multiplication prior to this, although my kid prefers BA style. Still debating if I should teach SM first to my second Beasty.

I also remember not being too happy about their long division, but can't recollect exactly what threw me off.

 

I wasn't happy with how they treated long division either. But maybe it was because they intend to spiral back around to it in the 4th grade books? It is so hard to tell without the series being complete.

[Targhee]

I believe the partial products and partial quotients methods of multiplication and division which they used were because they are more intuitive (if you've never learned the standard algorithm) - then students actually might learn this through problem solving.  After you understand a concept, you can use whatever notation or methods you prefer.  

[Roadrunner]

I wasn't happy with how they treated long division either. But maybe it was because they intend to spiral back around to it in the 4th grade books? It is so hard to tell without the series being complete.

Somebody asked me once on this board what I didn't like about it and I couldn't pinpoint. I just knew it felt off and I am glad my kid knew long division along with multiplication from SM.

On the other hand, we loved, loved, loved exponents chapter. My kids think perfect squares are great and all their poor friends have to sit through the demonstrations of mathematical proofs on the white board. It's the non traditional stuff that really shines in Beast, which is why we will keep on doing SM alongside. Sigh.

[Targhee]

We're not really working in one level of Singapore so it is hard to say. We kind of jump around in various chapters from 4B-6A because we have also been doing private tutoring and some other math things so we'll start whenever I feel he is ready, but you are right that I probably need to find something for negative numbers before starting. Otherwise I think we will be ok on concepts.

It's funny, because we just ran into rounding on Dreambox today.  DS didn't know the rules for rounding :confused1: .  We went from RS C (about 2/3 way through) into BA 3A, so maybe we missed it in 2nd? He's the only one who hasn't used SM, so maybe we will do SM 4A next.

[FairProspects]

I believe the partial products and partial quotients methods of multiplication and division which they used were because they are more intuitive (if you've never learned the standard algorithm) - then students actually might learn this through problem solving.  After you understand a concept, you can use whatever notation or methods you prefer.  

 

That makes sense but IIRC (and it has been awhile since we completed that chapter) BA didn't even fully explain the partial quotients method. They wanted you work only from 10s. Which is one way of using partial quotients and is definitely easier in terms of remembering times tables but it didn't really help extrapolate the concept well for us. I don't feel like I'm explaining that well but it wasn't my favorite chapter for sure.

 

Somebody asked me once on this board what I didn't like about it and I couldn't pinpoint. I just knew it felt off and I am glad my kid knew long division along with multiplication from SM.

On the other hand, we loved, loved, loved exponents chapter. My kids think perfect squares are great and all their poor friends have to sit through the demonstrations of mathematical proofs on the white board. It's the non traditional stuff that really shines in Beast, which is why we will keep on doing SM alongside. Sigh.

 

Yes, the geometry and variables chapters were some of our favorites. Definitely the less traditional concepts. Although ds loves proofs. I hope that is a good sign for future work with AoPS.

[FairProspects]

It's funny, because we just ran into rounding on Dreambox today.  DS didn't know the rules for rounding :confused1: .  We went from RS C (about 2/3 way through) into BA 3A, so maybe we missed it in 2nd? He's the only one who hasn't used SM, so maybe we will do SM 4A next.

 

Most of our rounding work was done in MM 4 with estimation. I know ds has used it a lot in SM too but I can't recall where it is in BA. I think we have used too many math programs at this point. :P My brain can't keep the scope and sequences straight.

[CrunchyGirl]

I wish my books weren't packed away (we're moving in a few weeks) but I'm pretty sure rounding is covered in SM2.

[deerforest]

I honestly no longer have any idea where DD has learned anything. That sounds horrible, but we have pulled from so many resources.

 

I also have to admit (again?) that I really despise geometry. I say this as someone who was in math competitions in high school and who has gone through a shocking number of advanced statistics courses at the PhD level. I can trace it back to a horrible geometry class in high school that was the most boring class ever. I swear I feel like I have geometry PTSD.

 

They snuck a little geometry bit in the counting section today. I looked at it, looked at DD, and said she could work on it with DH.

 

I know I am a great role model, but I happily sat with her while she worked on the tree diagrams. Love those guys!

[Farrar]

I believe the partial products and partial quotients methods of multiplication and division which they used were because they are more intuitive (if you've never learned the standard algorithm) - then students actually might learn this through problem solving.  After you understand a concept, you can use whatever notation or methods you prefer.  

 

Agreed.  My ds learned it in a similar way first, but had already gone on to learn the traditional algorithm by the time he did that chapter in 4A in Beast.  It was like going backwards.  Though many of the other things in that chapter were good refreshers or good new things.  Beast is such an odd mix like that.

[Farrar]

Most of our rounding work was done in MM 4 with estimation. I know ds has used it a lot in SM too but I can't recall where it is in BA. I think we have used too many math programs at this point. :p My brain can't keep the scope and sequences straight.

 

There's a whole chapter on estimation in BA - is it in 3D?  It was awesome.  Ds knew how to round and estimate, but then the stuff in BA asked him to do so, so much more with it - to be able to figure out ranges of numbers that rounded to other numbers, for example.  That chapter and the skip counting chapter were the two where I was most impressed with Beast - they took something simple, that most books treat as a throwaway topic by this age - and made it something in depth and thoughtful.

[Chrysalis Academy]

Oh man, it was a skip-counting thing Morgan was doing yesterday - just those little gumball puzzles, where you were supposed to skip count to a solution, and she totally got how you can group things to make the problems easier, then she used all the mental math stuff she learned in MM to figure out the answers . . . it was so beautiful to watch! I was really just along for the ride.  I know people have pooh-poohed the idea of a whole chapter on skip-counting, but Farar's right, there is some brilliant stuff in there, simply disguised.

[TracyP]

We liked the chapter on long division. :tongue_smilie: Actually, I take that back - I didn't like it at first glance and was prepared to add some teaching to it. However, my ds understood it immediately and still uses their method. FWIW, BA was his first exposure to long division.

[Chrysalis Academy]

Morgan and I were working on skip-counting today, hundreds charts, and my 6th grader walked past and said, "you guys are studying multiples and factors?" in this kind of incredulous, almost jealous voice.  Why yes, now that you mention it, yes we are!  :lol:  :hurray:

[Chrysalis Academy]

I know this thread is about BA 4B, so I'm kind of late to the party here, but I just can't resist! I'm liking BA more every day now that we are on the skip-counting chapter (in 3A).  It's so brilliant! I love how this chapter has exercised all my dd's mental math muscles - without a single lesson called "mental math".  I'm starting to really see the brilliance of how the practice is built in to the problem-solving aspect, and how it all builds.  So fun!   

 

 

[kirstenhill]

We liked the chapter on long division. :tongue_smilie: Actually, I take that back - I didn't like it at first glance and was prepared to add some teaching to it. However, my ds understood it immediately and still uses their method. FWIW, BA was his first exposure to long division.

 

Which book has the long division chapter?

[deerforest]

The skip counting chapter is one of our favorites!

 

We have really been loving the counting chapter in 4B! We just started factorials and had Anno's Mysterious Multiplying Jar ready for a re-read! :-)

 

DD already read the whole guide but we are going through it again together with the practice book.

[TracyP]

I know this thread is about BA 4B, so I'm kind of late to the party here, but I just can't resist! I'm liking BA more every day now that we are on the skip-counting chapter (in 3A).  It's so brilliant! I love how this chapter has exercised all my dd's mental math muscles - without a single lesson called "mental math".  I'm starting to really see the brilliance of how the practice is built in to the problem-solving aspect, and how it all builds.  So fun!   

 

I know. I love BA more all the time. The way they bring past concepts into new concepts seems more purposeful than any other program I have seen. Plus I am so impressed at what my ds is learning. Sometimes I wonder if it is too hard for him, because he struggles. But then we get to a MM page (we supplement with MM) and it is sooo easy. It makes me really confident that he is learning even though he has to struggle through some of the problems. Hmmm, I wrote "even though he has to struggle" but it makes me wonder if it is because he has to struggle. I know that is the whole AoPS philosophy, but this is the first time I am putting it together....

 

Which book has the long division chapter?

 

3C

[kirstenhill]

I know. I love BA more all the time. The way they bring past concepts into new concepts seems more purposeful than any other program I have seen. Plus I am so impressed at what my ds is learning. Sometimes I wonder if it is too hard for him, because he struggles. But then we get to a MM page (we supplement with MM) and it is sooo easy. It makes me really confident that he is learning even though he has to struggle through some of the problems. Hmmm, I wrote "even though he has to struggle" but it makes me wonder if it is because he has to struggle. I know that is the whole AoPS philosophy, but this is the first time I am putting it together....

 

 

3C

 

Sorry to hijack the 4B thread, but real quick...how difficult does the long division get in 3C?  I will be buying it anyway at some point for DS7....but  DD has only learned "short division" so far (which can be used only for a single digit divisors) and I want her to learn multi digit divisors soon.  It doesn't get into multi digit divisors, does it?  If it did, I would get it early for her to take a look at it. 

[TracyP]

Sorry to hijack the 4B thread, but real quick...how difficult does the long division get in 3C?  I will be buying it anyway at some point for DS7....but  DD has only learned "short division" so far (which can be used only for a single digit divisors) and I want her to learn multi digit divisors soon.  It doesn't get into multi digit divisors, does it?  If it did, I would get it early for her to take a look at it. 

 

It does have some problems with 2 digit divisors. I don't think there is any 3 digit divisors, but I just skimmed the chapter quickly to jog my memory - I could have missed it.

[Farrar]

It's all pretty easy long division IMO. I really liked it... and like all things Beast, it dealt with what is often a very algorithmic topic in other books and took it way deeper without taking the math further in terms of the algorithm... I just wish it had. Ds was ready and I needed to find more resources.

 

In general, I wish there was a book about division out there on its own somewhere. I think it's the basic math topic that kids are most likely to need remediated and having a book that went from the start all the way up through really long division would be nice. Oh well.

[deerforest]

I just looked at the division chapter in 4B. They cover the traditional long division algorithm and looks like 2 and 3 digit divisors.

 

We moved on to this on our own already so I think DD will zoom through that chapter.

[Upennmama]

Is Beast Academy generally considered challenging? Should I move down a bit? My DD is in 4th grade (public school, going to be HSed in the fall), getting straight As in math, and I looked at the sample BA pages for 4A, and I don't think she could do them, although maybe. I think her school hasn't done much with variables, the distributive property, or perfect squares, all of which are covered in the 3B and 3A for BA. Does this seem like a more challenging curriculum then typical books? I think she'd love it, but she may rebel against a 3rd grade book when she's in 4th. Maybe I could have her do 3A and 3B over the summer to get her ready? 

[sunnyday]

Yes Beast Academy is generally considered challenging and covers material not seen in other programs. From the introductory material: "Some of the topics in this book go well beyond what is typically taught in a third grade math class. Don't worry if you don't understand every lesson in the book the first time. You can always come back later to review some of the more difficult sections."

 

Look through all the pre-assessments to see where your child would fit. And look at the sample pages to get a feel for the challenge level. Note that there are 4 books per year, A-D, so just doing 3A and B wouldn't be a complete preparation for 4A.

 

FWIW I just don't tell my kids that the number on the front of the book has anything to do with grade level. Maybe because they're small and gullible but they work in the number 3 books and they're fine with it.

 

By the way, congrats on making the decision to give your kiddo more interesting math! Anyone who is getting straight As in 4th grade math deserves to play with math problems they can really grapple with for more than 5 seconds!

[Forgiven]

I know. I love BA more all the time. The way they bring past concepts into new concepts seems more purposeful than any other program I have seen. Plus I am so impressed at what my ds is learning. Sometimes I wonder if it is too hard for him, because he struggles. But then we get to a MM page (we supplement with MM) and it is sooo easy. It makes me really confident that he is learning even though he has to struggle through some of the problems. Hmmm, I wrote "even though he has to struggle" but it makes me wonder if it is because he has to struggle. I know that is the whole AoPS philosophy, but this is the first time I am putting it together....

 

 

3C

 

I feel the same way. My DS9 struggles with Beast at times, and he gets so frustrated. So one day I told him to do some work in his MM book instead of Beast. He sat, laughing at his MM, and then brought it to me, showing how he finished four pages, and telling me how easy it was. We then had the long talk about the differences between the two, and he hasn't looked back at MM since.

 

He LOVES Beast. His countenance after finishing starred problems on his own is worth all the money Beast costs and so much more.

 

My DD11 is jealous because my DS9 is learning things she just learned, or hasn't learned yet. So, of course, I had to get her some Beast. She has to finish up her MM5B before she can play with Beast, but I got her BA 4A for the summer. She's so excited to start! LOL

 

We love Beast Academy in our house.

[Roadrunner]

Morgan and I were working on skip-counting today, hundreds charts, and my 6th grader walked past and said, "you guys are studying multiples and factors?" in this kind of incredulous, almost jealous voice. Why yes, now that you mention it, yes we are! :lol: :hurray:

I was working on the Perfect Squares chapter with my little one today. We read through the part about planting snapdragons and how if you add the first nine odd numbers, it's the same as squaring nine. Well my older boy gets all excited, pulls out JA and enthusiastically points to page 14:

1= 1*1

1+3 = 2*2

1+3+5= 3*3

 

I just want to say again how much I love Beast! And thanks for JA!!!

[Chrysalis Academy]

:hurray:

 

 

And now that my 6th grader is dipping into AoPs, post-JA, I see how brilliant it is for bridging a kid into the discovery method - she is loving the layout of the AoPS lessons - discovery first, then teaching - all thanks to JA!  I realize that kids (like my younger) who will use BA 3-5th might not need that bridging, but I think it's so great for kids who get to the end of the BA road but aren't quite ready for AoPS yet.  Glad you guys are enjoying it!

[sweetpea3829]

Have any of your kiddos NOT loved Beast at times?  Or complained about using it?

 

My kiddo (7) was so excited to start Beast, after finishing Singapore 2B in March.  I had kicked around the idea of starting him in Singapore 3A right away, but I had some questions on his maturity, and so we decided to give Beast a try for Summer Bridge.

 

When it arrived, he LOVED the look of it, sat down and immediately started to read it.  He insisted we start with the fractions chapter and so we did.  And it proved to be a bit difficult for him.  Now he hates Beast and tells me he wants to go back to Singapore.  

 

I *think* its because my son is not used to encountering math that challenges him.  He's always easily understood math concepts and I think he dislikes the feel of "not getting it".  

 

I told him we'll be returning to Singapore in the fall, but for now, its Beast Academy.  We're just finishing up the geometry chapter and he did not struggle quite as much as he did with the fractions, thus, less complaining from him.  

 

Still...I'm not sure what to make of it, lol.  

[Farrar]

Have any of your kiddos NOT loved Beast at times? Or complained about using it?

 

 

Yes. I have twins - one is about to start 4B in Beast and the other is using MiF now. He tried Beast but it really didn't work for him. Like, not at all. Everything was too easy or too hard and he wasn't learning really. I still let him read the guide with us sometimes, but mostly it's just not his thing.

[Chrysalis Academy]

My kid wouldn't like it if she had to use it every day.  That's a big reason I've decided to keep MM in the mix.  Some days she wakes up raring to go and she'll go through 4 pages of Beast, chortling at the challenges, but other days she'll say, "Can I just do some multiplication pages?"  I respect that, I have days when I'm ready to tackle the world and days when Alcumus would just make me cry.  

[Miss Tick]

Have any of your kiddos NOT loved Beast at times? Or complained about using it?

 

 

Yes. We alternate it with MEP and for the first chapter of BA my ds commented that he preferred MEP days. Since then there have been a couple periods where he was trying to get his sister to do BA with him because it is so fun. Presumably it correlates with how challenging he finds it to be.