Can you give high school credit for remedial classes?

[Cynful]

My special needs son is behind.  He stills wants to graduate on time though I'm trying to show him that taking an extra year or two would be fine.  We would rather not give a special needs diploma if we can avoid it and I think, with time, he should be fine.  He just takes longer to process everything.  

 

So, just trying to cover my bases here.  Can I give credit for remedial work?  Or should I wait to start awarding credit until he's actually doing full high school grade level work?

 

His plans after high school aren't really formed yet.  He's thinking Community College at this point.  

 

Thanks for any advice you might have. I'm feeling a little lost with this.

 

 

[Lori D.]

My special needs son is behind.  He stills wants to graduate on time though I'm trying to show him that taking an extra year or two would be fine.  We would rather not give a special needs diploma if we can avoid it and I think, with time, he should be fine.  He just takes longer to process everything.  

 

So, just trying to cover my bases here.  Can I give credit for remedial work?  Or should I wait to start awarding credit until he's actually doing full high school grade level work?

 

His plans after high school aren't really formed yet.  He's thinking Community College at this point.  

 

Thanks for any advice you might have. I'm feeling a little lost with this.

 

 

I personally would call it what it is: credit for Remedial ________. Public high schools offer Remedial Math courses, for example, and that's what students in the class receive credit for on their transcripts, because they do the work for that credit. I certainly would not short a student for work they have done!

 

If it were my student, I would also show DS the list of required credits for high school graduation, which would likely have him graduate at 19-20, BUT emphasize it is the coursework he absolutely needs to properly prepare him for Community College (CC).

 

If DS has a vocational/tech program he is interested in at the CC, and could handle a class or two there in the vocational/tech coursework, he could also be doing 1-2 classes of dual-enrollment each semester at the Community College while finishing his high school credits. That could add up quickly and actually put him *ahead* by 1-2 semesters for earning a vocational/tech Certificate or Associate's degree!

 

If your state or area does not require specific courses for high school graduation as a homeschooler, I would base the "required" credits on a list of college-readiness list courses, such as something along these lines:

 

4 credits = English (for the Composition portion, work on getting solid with real-life everyday writing, and then essay writing for College Prep readiness)

4 credits = Math (with Algebra 1 and Geometry as minimum requirements and Algebra 2 but ONLY if you can realistically do it, along with Redial and Consumer Math, Bookkeeping or other helpful everyday math)

2-3 credits = Science (can spread this out and do just 1/2 to 2/3 of a science credit each year)

2-3 credits = Social Studies

2 credits = Foreign Language (optional, but if it can be managed, it puts him a step closer to College Prep Ready)

1 credit = Fine Arts

1 credit = Computer Tech

Electives (Vocational/Tech courses as Dual Enrollment from the CC in area of his interest/strength)

 

Shoot for a bare minimum TOTAL of 20 credits, and more like 24 credits if the dual enrollment at the CC with work towards a Certificate or Associate's can also be managed simultaneously. If it takes 5 years to get through high school, count the last 4 years of work as high school on the transcript for a GPA, and give credit but no GPA for that first early year. If there were no necessary credits from that first year of 5 years of high school, then you could just leave that year off entirely, and think of it as a "high school prep" year. ;)

 

This list is just what *I* would shoot for, but it really depends on your DS's individual abilities, and future plans. :) BEST of luck as you and DS plan for his future! Warmest regards, Lori D.

[Cynful]

Thank you Lori D.  :)

[katilac]

As Lori D. noted, high schools definitely award credit for remedial work. None of the schools around here use the word 'remedial,' though, so I wouldn't have a problem calling it something else if my kid preferred not to have to say he was taking remedial this and remedial that. It's not a matter of trying to fool him or an admissions office - they are readily identified as remedial by anyone 'in the know,' but simplify casual conversation a bit.

 

So, there is no problem with awarding credit for remedial work, he just has to realize that he must be beyond remedial work in order to move on to certain other opportunities. If your CC is good at helping students get to level, it may be better for him to go there rather than take another year at home (when the time comes). It will give him the chance to learn in different ways, and give him the sense of moving on.

 

A few examples of local remedial classes:

 

 

ACT Prep - just what it sounds like; test prep and you get credit (not necessarily remedial, per se, but most strong students won't have room in their schedule for this, they do it after school)

 

Adult Responsibility - financial management, consumer decisions

 

Education for Careers - learning about various careers; there are many, many versions of this, even at the same school

 

Financial Math - what is often known as consumer math

 

Freshman Focus - addresses academic competencies, career development, and social/personal needs

 

Reading Pathways - remedial reading

[Lori D.]

Adding on to Katilac's great alternate course title ideas, specifically for math:

 

 

Basic Mathematics

Pre Algebra

Foundational Studies in Math

Topics in High School Math

Algebra 1A / Algebra 1B

[Barbara H]

As a starting place I would suggest you look at what your state law requires. Also, it may be a good idea before long to go and visit the community college and talk to advising to find out more about how they place students into classes. It is likely the case that even if he's earned credit for a course in high school that will not affect his placement in colleges classes. So, if he earned credit for algebra 2 in high school they may place still place him into pre-algebra if that's where he tests. It would be good to understand that system because it in the long run he's likely to do best if he really has a solid foundation instead of being rushed through work just for the sake of getting it on his transcript.

 

Since it is always impossible to predict how a student will progress, my suggestion would be to start your documentation in 9th grade even if you consider the work remedial at this point. If it starts to click and he can more through more credits he can always continue. If he stays on the same progression he'll still have enough credits to graduate. There is no rule saying he can only have four math courses or only four English courses. You could start with a remedial level course, most often labeled "foundations" now, and then he could proceed to a higher level later. So, it could be English 1 foundations, English 2, etc. Document early and give yourself the flexibility to adjust the pace as needed.

[Cynful]

These are all such great ideas.  Thank you so much.  Our local laws aren't specific on homeschool graduates; it just suggests that we follow the college prep track that public schools do.  Our CC won't allow dual enrollment unless the student is college ready in reading, writing and math - naturally, the three areas that give him the most trouble.  At least I can give him credit for work he's done though and not have to tell him he's doing it for nothing.  You and I know it's definitely worth something but he thinks differently at 16.  I'm feeling much better about the future now and I think instead of planning on graduation at 6/2016, instead we'll plan on that being his beginning of dual enrollment but yet he can still graduation with his peers in our group.  It's hard seeing the big picture sometimes with learning delays.

 

Thanks again,

[Cynful]

Oh, one more question.  I'm thinking I'll call his English classes throughout high school English I, English II, etc.  Yet, each will compromise, for him anyway, spelling, reading, literature, vocab,, writing, etc.  Do I just put that all under this one class and give one credit?  And maybe list the resources?  

[Lori D.]

Oh, one more question.  I'm thinking I'll call his English classes throughout high school English I, English II, etc.  Yet, each will compromise, for him anyway, spelling, reading, literature, vocab,, writing, etc.  Do I just put that all under this one class and give one credit?  And maybe list the resources?  

 

 

Our younger DS has mild LDs in writing and spelling, and we, too included spelling and grammar review work as part of each year of the high school English credit, along with a standard amount of Literature, and as much Writing/Composition as he could handle. That's how I counted it -- all under English 9, English 10, English 11, English 12. On 4 days a week, we probably spent 1.5 to 2 hours a day on English topics (Fridays were the lighter day at about 1 hour for English topics). I rolled all the topics (Lit., Writing, Spelling, Vocab, Grammar) into one and counted it as one credit. That's just what it took to accomplish it here.

 

We also had to redo Algebra 1 and Algebra 2 twice to get them to "click", but I only counted each as 1 credit. The great thing was that by the time DS took the community college assessment, he just missed getting the Honors English option by a few points, and scored high enough on the math to be able to register for College Algebra, NOT a high school level math -- which is where many of his peers scored! Slow and steady, at their own pace gets it done! :)

[Cynful]

Lori D. that's great.  I've always said my son is a snail and work's at that pace.  I'm good with slow and steady.  It's the way his brain works.  I like hearing the success story though.  :)  I need that.

[Barbara H]

Oh, one more question.  I'm thinking I'll call his English classes throughout high school English I, English II, etc.  Yet, each will compromise, for him anyway, spelling, reading, literature, vocab,, writing, etc.  Do I just put that all under this one class and give one credit?  And maybe list the resources?  

 

Yes, that is the standard way public school approache it and colleges are used to seeing English I, English II, etc.  You can focus on the topics that make sense to him. Most schools will include some literature.

 

One thing I would also suggest is looking at remedial college reading textbooks. You could visit the college bookstore and see the sorts of titles they use and then maybe order an older edition online inexpensively. Some of the issues that topics and skills that students with LDs often struggle with (comprehension, summarizing, vocabulary, reading nonfiction, etc.) are better covered in these books than in the commonly used standard high school curriculum.

[Hunter]

"High school" courses include courses that the AVERAGE teenager is capable of completing. We now call most average students "special needs". The term "college prep" usually means 4 year university prep, and is not the most efficient prep for junior colleges, trade schools, and some small Christian schools. "College prep" is not just overkill, but it's not even the best way to prepare students for those other types of schooling. The idea that "college prep" courses are the only courses worthy of high school credit is just ludicrous. NOTE: I do NOT think it is ludicrous that a homeschool mom would be misled into thinking that.

 

The educational world has just gone nuts. Just like the cold war fears, we now have global competition fears, that are leading us into totally silliness. Silliness that is leaking down and hurting our homeschooling families.

 

Homeschooling families are spending so much more money that they did in the 80s and 90s, and students are not performing higher. Moms are so much more stressed. So many more kids carry labels. None of this is producing better outcomes and I fear that studies are going to start showing dropping outcomes.

 

What is now called "remedial" or "slow and steady" was referred to as the "standard" track at my high school, and the "general" track at others. it is imperative that we allow our normal average regular kids not be stigmatized and rushed into things things they are not mature enough to take advantage of yet. Normal kids have the right to be normal. Not everyone is gifted. Gifted is a statistical minority, not a goal for the masses.

 

Okay, getting off my soapbox now. I'm not directing this vent at anyone here. I'm just venting in general about the general way of dealing with general teens.

[Lolly]

Oh, one more question.  I'm thinking I'll call his English classes throughout high school English I, English II, etc.  Yet, each will compromise, for him anyway, spelling, reading, literature, vocab,, writing, etc.  Do I just put that all under this one class and give one credit?  And maybe list the resources?  

 

 

Just list the English 1. No need to elaborate past that. A community college is just going to look to see that he has a diploma and check ACT scores for placement in classes. They most likely won't even look to see what classes he has taken. The average state or private college will look at class names, grades, and ACT/SAT scores. You should keep additional information for your own records/just in case. Chances of needing it are slim.

[TechWife]

 

 

What is now called "remedial" or "slow and steady" was referred to as the "standard" track at my high school, and the "general" track at others. it is imperative that we allow our normal average regular kids not be stigmatized and rushed into things things they are not mature enough to take advantage of yet. Normal kids have the right to be normal. Not everyone is gifted. Gifted is a statistical minority, not a goal for the masses.

 

 

 

:iagree:  :hurray:  :hurray:  :hurray:  :hurray:  :hurray:

[Rebel Yell]

Yes, that is the standard way public school approache it and colleges are used to seeing English I, English II, etc.  You can focus on the topics that make sense to him. Most schools will include some literature.

 

One thing I would also suggest is looking at remedial college reading textbooks. You could visit the college bookstore and see the sorts of titles they use and then maybe order an older edition online inexpensively. Some of the issues that topics and skills that students with LDs often struggle with (comprehension, summarizing, vocabulary, reading nonfiction, etc.) are better covered in these books than in the commonly used standard high school curriculum.

 

:iagree:

[G5052]

Just list the English 1. No need to elaborate past that. A community college is just going to look to see that he has a diploma and check ACT scores for placement in classes. They most likely won't even look to see what classes he has taken. The average state or private college will look at class names, grades, and ACT/SAT scores. You should keep additional information for your own records/just in case. Chances of needing it are slim.

 

Yes, one of the admissions people at the community college where I work said that she spends maybe a minute or two glancing at the transcript, makes sure they have a diploma, and then they focus on the SAT/ACT/placement scores in particular.  Looking at the transcript is just required to make sure that they took a variety of classes, the sort of thing that would make a typical high school program.  They really don't focus on the details at all.  They do have minimums for SAT/ACT/placement tests for admission even with the availability of remedial math and English.  Very, very few are turned away though.

[CyndiLJ]

"High school" courses include courses that the AVERAGE teenager is capable of completing. We now call most average students "special needs". The term "college prep" usually means 4 year university prep, and is not the most efficient prep for junior colleges, trade schools, and some small Christian schools. "College prep" is not just overkill, but it's not even the best way to prepare students for those other types of schooling. The idea that "college prep" courses are the only courses worthy of high school credit is just ludicrous. NOTE: I do NOT think it is ludicrous that a homeschool mom would be misled into thinking that.

 

The educational world has just gone nuts. Just like the cold war fears, we now have global competition fears, that are leading us into totally silliness. Silliness that is leaking down and hurting our homeschooling families.

 

Homeschooling families are spending so much more money that they did in the 80s and 90s, and students are not performing higher. Moms are so much more stressed. So many more kids carry labels. None of this is producing better outcomes and I fear that studies are going to start showing dropping outcomes.

 

What is now called "remedial" or "slow and steady" was referred to as the "standard" track at my high school, and the "general" track at others. it is imperative that we allow our normal average regular kids not be stigmatized and rushed into things things they are not mature enough to take advantage of yet. Normal kids have the right to be normal. Not everyone is gifted. Gifted is a statistical minority, not a goal for the masses.

 

Okay, getting off my soapbox now. I'm not directing this vent at anyone here. I'm just venting in general about the general way of dealing with general teens.

 

I love you.

 

That is all.

[Hunter]

I love you.

 

That is all.

CyndiLJ,  :grouphug:

 

G5052, your CC requires SATs and even looks at a transcript? The only ones I have dealt with only want an accredited Diploma or a GED, and their own placement tests. They won't even look at a transcript and SAT scores mean NOTHING to them. Maybe the SATs and transcripts are an OPTION to stand in place of the accreditted diploma/GED and in-house testing that I am more familiar with?

 

The schools I have dealt with, with my sons and students, take EVERYONE with a diploma/GED. They test them and place them and that is that.

[G5052]

 

G5052, your CC requires SATs and even looks at a transcript? The only ones I have dealt with only want an accredited Diploma or a GED, and their own placement tests. They won't even look at a transcript and SAT scores mean NOTHING to them. Maybe the SATs and transcripts are an OPTION to stand in place of the accreditted diploma/GED and in-house testing that I am more familiar with?

 

The schools I have dealt with, with my sons and students, take EVERYONE with a diploma/GED. They test them and place them and that is that.

 

Yes, they look at the transcript.  The admissions gal that I talked to about this told me that if she doesn't see 4 years of math, 3 years of English, and "some" science, history, and other things, she is going to ask for them to make an appointment to see her.  She doesn't care about book lists and course descriptions. Those who don't have one are told to make an appointment as well, and to bring any documentation that they have.

 

A diploma or GED is required.  You can use SAT, ACT, or placement tests.  If they don't have an SAT or ACT, they are told to do the college placement tests.

 

So yes, it is not 100% open door.  

 

They certainly do all they can to admit someone who seems like they are ready.  Some are admitted and required to complete a sequence of remedial classes before enrolling in college classes.  Some are given "provisional admission" where the professors are notified and are required to do more frequent grade reporting.  And there are a few that are told to study and retake the placement exams before admission because both math and English scores were below the minimums.  If the SAT/ACT are too low, they are told to take the placement tests.

 

They also state that if you have been suspended from another college, they have the right to not admit you if the reasons are ones that the CC is not comfortable with.

 

And they run a criminal background check on every student as well, and don't admit some because of that.  Some are asked to an interview with admissions and the campus police before admission. 

 

So it is a bit more complicated indeed!

[Kareni]

 

G5052, your CC requires SATs and even looks at a transcript? The only ones I have dealt with only want an accredited Diploma or a GED, and their own placement tests.

 

 

I think our local community college only wanted breathing students and money.  (And the breathing may have been optional!)

 

Well, more accurately, they did ask that the student take placement tests in math and writing.  No transcript, GED, or other test scores were required.  It's interesting the differences from one community college to another.

 

Regards,

Kareni

[Hunter]

I think our local community college only wanted breathing students and money. (And the breathing may have been optional!)

 

Well, more accurately, they did ask that the student take placement tests in math and writing. No transcript, GED, or other test scores were required. It's interesting the differences from one community college to another.

 

Regards,

Kareni

Yes, this has been my experience. One school said all the freshman drop outs who only stayed for a semester or two and filled the 101 classes, was what paid for the more advanced classes of the fewer students that earned a degree.

 

G5052, just wow! I've never heard of such a school. Is that the only CC in your community, or are they trying to set themselves apart from another local school?

[G5052]

G5052, just wow! I've never heard of such a school. Is that the only CC in your community, or are they trying to set themselves apart from another local school?

 

Part of a state system, but yes, they're really trying to up their retention numbers and get a high percentage of transfers to 4-year schools.  The number of people they don't admit is very, very small though.  Those who are put into remedial classes or on provisional admission are tracked very closely and given every help available to them. And that's not bad either.

[Lolly]

CyndiLJ,  :grouphug:

 

G5052, your CC requires SATs and even looks at a transcript? The only ones I have dealt with only want an accredited Diploma or a GED, and their own placement tests. They won't even look at a transcript and SAT scores mean NOTHING to them. Maybe the SATs and transcripts are an OPTION to stand in place of the accreditted diploma/GED and in-house testing that I am more familiar with?

 

The schools I have dealt with, with my sons and students, take EVERYONE with a diploma/GED. They test them and place them and that is that.

 

 

Our CC requires ACT scores from students under...I think 22 yo. Above that, they use in house testing (Compass, I think). It doesn't matter what your scores are; they accept everyone. Scores are used strictly for placement. I don't know why they won't allow younger students to test with them instead. Makes no sense to me.