when is someone with the stomach flu the most contagious?

[kfeusse]

I have heard that 2 days before someone gets sick they are the most contagious...then I have also heard that someone actually has to be getting sick for them to be contagious...what is the "real" fact?? And how long after a kid stops getting sick is he contagious? I know most schools say 24 hours after they can come back to school...is that right?

 

And what do you do if you absolutely can't get sick and there is flu in your home? What precaustions do you take??

 

I am taking Emer-Gen-C, garlic pills, and extra of the other vitamins I normally take...is there anything else I can do beside washing hands and spraying lysol on EVERYTHING!!!

[Catherine]

Just remember the mode of transmission: fecal-oral. Picture what that REALLY MEANS (sorry!) and plan accordingly. You can only be infected by viruses that have exited the GI tract. It is not transmitted in the air.

[kfeusse]

so if it's not trasmitted in the air, the only way to become infected with the virus is actually coming into contact with the fecal-oral material? (sorry....trying NOT to be gross....but the subject matter is just gross)....so if my one son shares the same room with one who is sick...just because he is in the same room doesn't mean he will get sick? my healthy son was in the top bunk while my sick son was in the bottom bunk...all night long....and just because I helped my son (and daughter) during those sick hours doesn't mean I will get sick, espeically if I washed my hands constantly?

[BarbecueMom]

Just remember the mode of transmission: fecal-oral. Picture what that REALLY MEANS (sorry!) and plan accordingly. You can only be infected by viruses that have exited the GI tract. It is not transmitted in the air.

 

Mostly true. Warning: disgusting science to follow. I read a study where they followed restaurant patrons after someone vomited from norovirus at their table. The vomit aspirated (within a minute or two), probably landed on the food, and nearly all the patrons in the immediate surrounding area fell ill. The percentage fell as the distance from the sick person grew larger, but some people did get sick from continuing to eat, even on the other side of the restaurant!

 

After reading that, I'll no longer continue my meal in a restaurant after someone gets sick. Not worth the risk.

 

ETA: Because of the aspiration from vomit and flushing, pukers must have the bathroom closed when sick. We keep everything in the bathroom that can't be Lysol sprayed or washed in closed cabinets. For the couple weeks after infection, I try to remember to spray the bathroom after the was-ill person uses it for "sitting". It's difficult because I am the only one with a weak stomach who gets symptoms from every infection. DH and kids are not always symptomatic.

[rieshy]

Actually it is transmitted in the air. http://www.cdc.gov/f...se/spread.htm�� and stomach virus can also be spread this way through water droplets when you vomit. So anytime someone in the house vomits think of all the surfaces including bathroom books, handtowels, etc. in your bathroom that are contaminated: http://www.nydailyne...ticle-1.1248303

 

Not to be gross.... but think of it this way. Your child vomits in the bathroom, you clean up but don't get the water faucet well enough you wash your hands and then turn the water off and rub your eyes because you are so exhausted...

 

There was an interesting article someone on this board posted during the winter about the Australian stomach but that hit the states and caused an outbreak in the Pacific Northwest that researchers pinpointed to a hotel that a girls soccer team was in for a few days. One of the team members got sick in the hotel bathroom, which was scrubbed but a reusable grocery sack carrying sealed snacks was contaminated and 2 weeks later still had live virus living on it.

 

Yes, wash your hands and clean- but it's not all fecal matter and uncleanliness.

[kfeusse]

so what do you do when you absolutely can't sick, but you are the main care giver of the sick kids???? I know there isn't anything that is 100%...but what do you rely on???

[rieshy]

so if it's not trasmitted in the air, the only way to become infected with the virus is actually coming into contact with the fecal-oral material? (sorry....trying NOT to be gross....but the subject matter is just gross)....so if my one son shares the same room with one who is sick...just because he is in the same room doesn't mean he will get sick? my healthy son was in the top bunk while my sick son was in the bottom bunk...all night long....and just because I helped my son (and daughter) during those sick hours doesn't mean I will get sick, espeically if I washed my hands constantly?

 

I wouldn't have your kids share the bathroom. In January my 5 yo was terribly sick with a stomach virus and threw up while running and crying to me and it got in my mouth (sorry, I know that is revolting) as I lifted him to run him to the bathroom. My 6 yo who shares a bunk bed with the 5 yo got sick with it too and he ended up in the hospital (I stayed in his hospital room with him) and I never got sick.

 

And finally still not to be gross- my 6 yo was hospitalized for the flu in March and I stayed with him. Sleep exhaustion led me to use HIS toothbrush, and I didn't get sick.

 

I do wash my hands like a fiend and try never to touch my face.

[rieshy]

so if it's not trasmitted in the air, the only way to become infected with the virus is actually coming into contact with the fecal-oral material? (sorry....trying NOT to be gross....but the subject matter is just gross)....so if my one son shares the same room with one who is sick...just because he is in the same room doesn't mean he will get sick? my healthy son was in the top bunk while my sick son was in the bottom bunk...all night long....and just because I helped my son (and daughter) during those sick hours doesn't mean I will get sick, espeically if I washed my hands constantly?

 

I wouldn't have your kids share the bathroom. In January my 5 yo was terribly sick with a stomach virus and threw up while running and crying to me and it got in my mouth (sorry, I know that is revolting) as I lifted him to run him to the bathroom. My 6 yo who shares a bunk bed with the 5 yo got sick with it too and he ended up in the hospital (I stayed in his hospital room with him) and I never got sick.

 

And finally still not to be gross- my 6 yo was hospitalized for the flu in March and I stayed with him. Sleep exhaustion led me to use HIS toothbrush, and I didn't get sick.

 

I do wash my hands like a fiend and try never to touch my face.

[BarbecueMom]

so what do you do when you absolutely can't sick, but you are the main care giver of the sick kids???? I know there isn't anything that is 100%...but what do you rely on???

 

Tons of hand washing, gallons of Lysol, and crossed fingers. The one thing that seems to shorten the duration in me is to not eat if I'm not hungry. Sometimes I can avoid most of the nausea/vomiting by letting my digestive tract rest when nothing is digesting as the virus comes on. That's just my experience though, it may not be a scientifically valid way of dealing with it.

[rieshy]

I'm having computer issues, sorry about the double posting. What I meant to add in my last post was that I do everything I can (to an extreme) to avoid contamination when there is illness in the house because I have a medically fragile child, but sometimes it just isn't possible to prevent illness or to prevent it from spreading. I try to practice healthy food choices and regular exercise and enough sleep on my part and then I pray and pray and pray.

 

I hope you and yours get well and stay well.

[MiniBlondes]

so what do you do when you absolutely can't sick, but you are the main care giver of the sick kids???? I know there isn't anything that is 100%...but what do you rely on???

 

Surgical masks, rubber gloves, and BLEACH. A fresh unopened bottle of bleach. Lysol is somewhat effective but it has to be the right kind. Lysol and Clorox wipes DO NOT kill the virus. http://www.stopthest...ach-flu-viruses

 

Best advice? Keep sick person in a bathroom alone, only go in and care for him/her when you must. If it is Norovirus, it will be contagious for up to 2 weeks after in their feces. The virus is transmitted fecal-oral but that's not as simple as it sounds. You can inhale the vomits or fecal particles too (hence my surgical mask suggestion). After they stop showing symptoms, I recommend keeping the 'sick room' closed off for 3 or so days and then disinfecting every surface with bleach. You can wash the clothes and things but understand that Noro is difficult to kill, even at high temps, so your standard wash isn't going to cut it necessarily.

 

Noro is a nasty nasty bug. Quarantine the ill person, wear a mask and gloves, wash your hands A LOT, and whatever you do... don't touch your face.

[Lisa in SC]

I agree with everything already posted. I wanted to add that Lysol wipes and Clorox wipes do not sanitize surfaces in the case of something like norovirus. An actual bleach solution or Lysol disinfectant spray (it will say Brand III in small letters under the word Lysol) must be used. I'm going through it for the fourth time, so I guess I'm more OCD than usual, and I just wanted to let you know that the wipes will not work. The previous three times, we've kept it to one person. Time will tell if we're successful this time. Well wishes to you and your family. I know how stressful this can be.

[MiniBlondes]

I am taking Emer-Gen-C, garlic pills, and extra of the other vitamins I normally take...is there anything else I can do beside washing hands and spraying lysol on EVERYTHING!!!

 

Extra Vitamin D and Welches Grape Juice (the purple kind, not the cocktail). The purple grape juice makes the acid in the stomach unfavorable for the multiplying of the norovirus. http://minnesotamama...rape-juice.html

 

Unfortunately, I know a little too much about this topic because I suffer from pretty severe emetophobia. I live with a daily and near constant fear of this virus.

[Momof3littles]

Yeah, Noro can live on porous surfaces like carpet for 2 weeks. THe length of contagiousness likely depends on the type of virus we are talking about. And yes, I think sharing a bathroom is very different than meeting up with an adult at the park 2 days before or after getting sick, assuming they wash hands well after using the restroom.

 

I try to quarantine the sick person in one bathroom when possible. That's easier with the older two, tougher with the 3 yo. I give them dishpans to vomit into as a" just in case they don't make it to the toilet" measure. But I strongly encourage them making it into the "sick" bathroom. That way droplets aren't spewing all over my couch and living room carpet, iykwim.

 

We are mostly a natural cleaner family, but I do pull out the bleach and lysol 3 for stomach bugs. With bleach you have to make sure you leave it sit on the surface for at least 10 mins to kill the yuckies. A quick wipe down won't necessarily get everything disinfected. The bleach needs to sit to do its work. I try to bleach the toilet, the floors, the lightswitches, faucet, sink, vanity, doorknobs, etc. I fill the sink with bleach solution and even plop the soap dispenser and toothbrush holder in there since I figure they get hit with droplets. I save that type of cleaning until the sick person has stopped vomiting. I do a little cleaning as I go, but then do a serious cleanup before I let anyone back into the "sick" bathroom.

 

If I'm in the room with a kid when they are vomiting or I'm cleaning up the bathroom, I have even been known to spray the soles of my slippers with lysol before walking around the house with them on.

 

Yeah, I hate stomach bugs. And all of the above doesn't always work and I kick myself for trying. But sometimes I think it does help.

 

Since I have a 3 yo I also know he doesn't wash hands as long as he should, etc. so I err on the side of doing deep cleaning to try to reduce his exposure, you know?

 

edited to add that this is a weird one, but consider cutting your own nails and making sure everyone else's are short. I usually have a little nail growth, but that area under the nails is tough to really keep clean, and in kids, that's more area to trap virus particles in. Gross, but I think it helps handwashing be more effective if you aren't dealing with any nail length.

[I.Dup.]

The previous three times, we've kept it to one person. Time will tell if we're successful this time.

 

What do you attribute to keeping it to 1 person the past 3 times? Any ideas how you keep getting this virus?

 

I bleach, bleach, bleach and that seems to help. Make sure you bleach the toilet completely (inside and outside of the bowl) every time someone has a loose stool. Flush the loose stool, then you do the bleach. It's the feces that has the most concentrated virus (I have heard it's not passed through vomit, I would rather like to continue to believe that) and not bleaching the bowl while people continue to use it and flush is probably the biggest way it's transmitted through the family. Bleach the sink and water faucet. Just bleach everything. Drink lots of purple grape juice (100% grape juice), give it to everyone who is not vomitting.

[Momof3littles]

so if it's not trasmitted in the air, the only way to become infected with the virus is actually coming into contact with the fecal-oral material? (sorry....trying NOT to be gross....but the subject matter is just gross)....so if my one son shares the same room with one who is sick...just because he is in the same room doesn't mean he will get sick? my healthy son was in the top bunk while my sick son was in the bottom bunk...all night long....and just because I helped my son (and daughter) during those sick hours doesn't mean I will get sick, espeically if I washed my hands constantly?

 

You won't necessarily get sick; you could have previous immunity or your handwashing might be enough. But with things like Noro, you literally only need a very, very small # of particles to get sick. Far fewer virus particles are needed to get Noro than something like influenza. That's why even with aggressive disinfecting and handwashing you can still get sick. Even with great care it isn't like you can eliminate 100% of the particles that have spread around the bathroom, house, under your hands, etc.

[elfgivas]

it depends on why you can't get sick.

 

if its chemo/immune related, i'd retire to my bedroom or to a tent in the backyard for the duration. dh would stay home and deal with sick kids.

if its future surgery related, if you have ten days to go before surgery you should be fine.... or even only a week.

 

i'm having trouble imagining what else would mean you absolutely couldn't get sick...

(in our house, there are always performances and travel, etc, etc.... but taking care of sick kids trumps that. chemo or surgery on the other hand trumps just about everything).

 

you've had lots of great advice re airborne spread and disinfecting.... hope it all works and that everyone is well soon.

 

hugs,

ann

[Lisa in SC]

 

 

What do you attribute to keeping it to 1 person the past 3 times? Any ideas how you keep getting this virus?

 

I bleach, bleach, bleach and that seems to help. Make sure you bleach the toilet completely (inside and outside of the bowl) every time someone has a loose stool. Flush the loose stool, then you do the bleach. It's the feces that has the most concentrated virus (I have heard it's not passed through vomit, I would rather like to continue to believe that) and not bleaching the bowl while people continue to use it and flush is probably the biggest way it's transmitted through the family. Bleach the sink and water faucet. Just bleach everything. Drink lots of purple grape juice (100% grape juice), give it to everyone who is not vomitting.

 

Keeping it to one person each time is because we: quarantine the sick person, give the sick person his or her own bathroom, bleach all hard surfaces and Lysol everything else, and practice absolutely scrupulous, basically obsessive hygiene. When I say everything is bleached or sprayed with Lysol, I mean everything. I do it myself literally hourly during the day.

 

The way each individual was separately infected? Of course I don't have 100% confirmation, but this is what I believe to be the source in each case.

 

First victim was 100% confirmed. It was the infant son of my oldest dd's friend who lives with us. He got it from her mother who had it when she babysat him.

 

Second victim was my fil. He goes to church every morning and takes communion from a chalice. He also shakes hands with everyone in attendance. Church is likely where he was exposed.

 

Third victim was dd20. She attends cosmetology school and is a server. She comes into contact with literally at least a hundred people a day, so she could have been exposed at school or work. She's pregnant, and the virus did start contractions and cause dehydration, so we had to take her for fluids and phenargen (sp).

 

Fourth victim is ds14. He went to the grocery store with dh about 30 hours prior to the onset of symptoms. He pushed the cart, and dh is about as far from a germophobe as it's possible to be. Since the only other outside activity ds had within the window of exposure was solo running, I'm assuming the grocery store/cart was the source in his case.

 

I didn't know about the grape juice trick. Dh is going to pick up several bottles on his way home. How I love the wisdom of the hive! :D

[kfeusse]

this grape juice thing looks great....unless it doesn't work...how do you clean up grape juice from a carpet or bed spread if it doesn't work??

 

and...would grape wine work the same way???? Just kidding....sort of.....love my glass of wine at night...wondered if it could count as my last dose of "purple grape juice"....:)

[MrsMommy]

Nothing to add, just wanted to share that even though no one in my house is sick, after reading this thread, I had to go and bleach all of the bathrooms! :)

 

I feel better now!

[kfeusse]

well, we made it thorugh another night....and we are still drinking our grape juice....just in case...and my poor hands are raw from all of the hand washing...but I don't care...I am still healthy....

[sueh16]

Glad to hear that you're well.I want to offer some encouragement. When we were growing up, my sister and I had our share of nasty stomach bugs, but our parents, who cleaned up after us many times, never caught it. I hope you're as fortunate as they were.

 

Sue

[I.Dup.]

this grape juice thing looks great....unless it doesn't work...how do you clean up grape juice from a carpet or bed spread if it doesn't work??

 

and...would grape wine work the same way???? Just kidding....sort of.....love my glass of wine at night...wondered if it could count as my last dose of "purple grape juice".... :)

 

 

Don't give grape juice to anyone who is vomiting. It is a prophylactic measure if you want to keep it away, or for the other people who aren't throwing up.

[kfeusse]

no, I never gave it to the sick kids...but my fear was that if it didn't work, or if we unknowingly gave it to a child who wasn't having symptoms, but will very soon...and then they get sick...

 

But, it maybe it does work..becasue the remaining 3 of us are still fine....my dd has her appointment this morning and I can take her...so now we are on to the next deal....hoping for the best with her hand and that she won't need surgery...but I am not sure we will be that lucky with this one...time will tell.

 

thank you all!!!!

[Melissa in Australia]

re. the grape juice thing.

When I was a child my mother would give us a little wine after vomiting. she got the idea from reading the bible. Well it has cured me of ever wanting to try alcohol at all. The smell of wine takes me right back to being a kid and vomiting.

[Melissa in Australia]

when I worked in aged care we were not allowed to go to work until there had been 24 hours of nobody vomiting in the house( immediate family). it was considered contagious until then.