Hunter's Moon Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 This has been bugging me for a while, so I thought I'd throw it out here. I know many people (Christian and not) pray for healing, or right decisions, etc. If, however, human beings have free will, what is the point of those prayers? For example, if someone is shot, it was the shooter's free will that had it happen. Would praying for the victim's healing make sense? Wouldn't the free will extend to what happens to the victim? That isn't the best example, I'm just having trouble coming up with a better one. I can understand praying for courage or wisdom or strength or peace, but I struggle with praying for things that involve free will. Anyone else? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DragonFaerie Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 In my way of thinking, you cannot and should not try to affect someone else's free will. For example, if you wish to find love, you pray that you are more loving and loveable, not that the object of your affection will fall in love with you. The first makes changes within yourself while the second seeks to change someone else. Likewise, if you are interviewing for a job, you cannot pray that you get hired because that impinges on the free will of the employer. But you can pray that you are articulate and intelligent and able to express your thoughts and ideas clearly during the interview. Does that make sense? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirty ethel rackham Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 While we do have free will, there is evidence all over the Bible of God changing the heart of someone. When I pray, I first pray for what I want, then I pray for God's will be done, and then I pray for acceptance of his will. I have seen people's hearts soften as the result of prayer (including my own.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TammyS Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 While we do have free will, there is evidence all over the Bible of God changing the heart of someone. When I pray, I first pray for what I want, then I pray for God's will be done, and then I pray for acceptance of his will. I have seen people's hearts soften as the result of prayer (including my own.) This. Softening of the heart. Very few people are all bad. Maybe none (though some, say Hitler, can appear that way to us). So, there is room for them to change. This isn't change in the sense of taking over someone's mind, but change in the sense of being more open to what they already know (but want to ignore) to be right. If you can imagine a bunch of kids bullying another kid on a playground, then the kid breaks down and starts crying, suddenly one of the bullies stops and switches sides to defend the bullied child. That bully's heart has been softened. He didn't suddenly realize that what he was doing was wrong. His MIND hasn't been changed. He always knew it was wrong. But his heart has been softened and now can be lead by his mind to do what is right. He still has the free will to go back to being a bully - but he no longer wants to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joanne Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 This has been bugging me for a while, so I thought I'd throw it out here. I know many people (Christian and not) pray for healing, or right decisions, etc. If, however, human beings have free will, what is the point of those prayers? For example, if someone is shot, it was the shooter's free will that had it happen. Would praying for the victim's healing make sense? Wouldn't the free will extend to what happens to the victim? That isn't the best example, I'm just having trouble coming up with a better one. I can understand praying for courage or wisdom or strength or peace, but I struggle with praying for things that involve free will. Anyone else? I am not a Christian, but I believe in the power of thought to change things. I also believe in evil and in the complexity of human history and interaction. Clearly, we can be the victim of events in which we can't pray/think our way out of the tangle of events. I believe that the focus of energy changes energy. That is why I welcome prayer, candles, good thoughts, etc. I don't believe in "healing" in the traditional Christian sense, but I do believe that praying for increased health, intervention, human and Rx resources, and peace can help alleiviate suffering. I believe in a "gratitude" orientation (though I am always challenged to meet that objective). The research on the effectiveness of meditation (IMO a form of prayer/focused energy) is compelling in terms of health, quality of life, emotional intelligence, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Susan in TN Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 Free will, in the way the Bible addresses it, means that we are "free to do as we will/desire". So part of the discussion has to do with a Biblical understanding of what human "will" and "desires" really are. I think it's interesting that in the prayer Jesus taught his disciples to pray (The Lord's Prayer) everything that is being prayed for has already been promised. In the Psalms David pours out his heart to God, but always with the understanding and gratitude that God's will is perfect and that "His love endures forever". I like to think of prayer first and foremost as the thing that will turn my heart toward Christ and make me more like Him. Circumstances may not change according to my preference, but in the end, it's my heart that truly needs to change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-rap Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 While we do have free will, there is evidence all over the Bible of God changing the heart of someone. When I pray, I first pray for what I want, then I pray for God's will be done, and then I pray for acceptance of his will. I have seen people's hearts soften as the result of prayer (including my own.) I like how you said that. I agree with this, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Georgiana Daniels Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 Free will is a tricky thing. Ask Jonah how much free will he had ;) While we (anyone) can start off doing whatever they please, God's influence on their hearts--and their circumstances--can bring them around to His plan when there is prayer involved. Of course, I'm no theologian..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mergath Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 As a Pagan, when I pray it's more directing positive energy toward a goal, not so much asking God for something. I don't think I've ever prayed for anything that would undo another person's free will, if that makes sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrothead Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 In your scenario it was the shooter's free will that allowed him to shoot. But was it the victim's free will to be shot? Who wants to be shot? The victim's free will only extended to the point of being at that place and time to be at the receiving end of the bullet. So, yes. We pray for the victims. Generally it isn't a victim's free will that got him in the position of being a victim. It was happenstance. Anything else and you are moving away from free will I have freewill that allows me to sit here at the computer still not dressed at 11:30 in the morning. The right thing for me to do would be to have gotten dressed and work on a constructive project. I can pray God helps me to avoid the sin of laziness/procrastination in the future. So I have freewill to pray about my freewill. I can also ask others to pray for me. Have your read the CCC about free wlll? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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