Could use some encouragement from others who have not "taught to the test"

[JennifersLost]

My child's high school education is not going to look like everyone else's high school education here. He will not get a BC diploma. He will not get good marks if I try to make him take all the provincial exams. We haven't covered history in the way "they" cover history. Even my biology course (with the Exploring Life textbook) doesn't cover over half the stuff on the BC Provincial biology exam.

 

I'm feeling kind of scared. And I'm teaching to the test. If I wasn't worried about "getting into" college, I would be educating my child in a different way.

 

I feel like I'm not being true to myself; I am requiring "busy work" from my child in order to have something to show. And you know what? That irritates me. Really irritates me.

 

Would someone say something profound and make me feel better?

 

Here's the source of my irritation. At forty, the only things I remember are the things I learned because I was interested in them. I remember a little bit of biology. I remember NOTHING AT ALL from chemistry. I remember two or three concepts from Physics. I remember just about nothing from any of the math I took above Algebra 1, although I went through Calculus.

 

I remember very little history I learned in school. I remember tons of history from stories I've read and books I sought out myself.

 

All the essay writing I did...over and over and over again in high school and college turned me so off of writing (which I adored up until then) that I didn't start writing again for twenty years. Now I adore it again.

 

If I taught from my heart, my kids would do all of these subjects, but there would be no essay writing, no book reports, no make-work projects to "prove" we read the books. They would go through science textbooks, answer the questions and do the labs, but I wouldn't give a rat's a** about whether or not they could pass provincial exams.

 

I believe that education through twelfth grade is about exposing kids to all of the types of information that is out there. Then their passions should guide the way.

 

GRRRRRRR. I never ever meant to do school at home. How does this keep happening?

[Pamela H in Texas]

Hi Jennifer.

 

I'm confused. You're saying he's not getting a BC diploma and they don't have to take the provincial exams? Then why worry about BC diploma requirements and provincial exam standards?

 

Why not homeschool the way you want?

 

And are your kids going to get a worse education? No! It'll just be different.

 

Think of it this way: you're already going against the mainstream, what's one more step? :)

 

Honestly? I wish I had decided this before last spring. My son is benefiting from it, but my daughter had to put up with a more traditional path. Why?

 

The step is VERY freeing, btw.

[lionfamily1999]

Is it the writing you want to skip? Could you do something else? Have them do lectures, or make movies, or act it out, or write a song, or whatever their interests are. At the end of the year you could still have something to show (albiet on CD rom or canvas, instead of a sheaf of papers) and you wouldn't have to worry about whether or not your kids are being turned off from learning.

 

I would teach all the stuff, because it creates a base for everything else to build on, but let them run with what they love.

 

For us, ds is starting to write storybooks for some subjects, instead of just narratives. He loves it and actually does more in depth worth, because he's including himself and it's something he enjoys. It's funny, because the narrative is still there, but now it's a story line and at the end of the month, he's kept more of the info.

[Nan in Mass]

I'm in the US, so our situation is slightly different, but I had the same reaction when I was planning high school for my older one; I became very angry at the system, angry enough to look at alternative schools like Clonlara. In the end, I decided that we could on our own do an alternative education and translate it into a more standard-looking transcript and that I didn't need a cover school. I looked at all the college enterance requirements. I took a deep breath and decided that it would be better to tailor my son's education to him and just accept that that would mean that some colleges would not accept him. (That was scary.) And then I decided how I was going to prove to the remaining colleges that my child could do college level academics. I decided he would take the SATs with a minimum of prep work and that he would take a few academic classes at the community college; those would validate his mummy transcript. I made sure we covered the subjects that were required by Massachusetts law, and that we covered most of what I thought he needed to know to be grown up, and I tried hard to teach enough academic skills that he would be able to survive college. It remains to be seen whether he can or not, since this is his first year. As time went along, I became more and more concerned about whether he had those academic skills and less and less concerned about our choice to narrow down the possible colleges or to use alternative methods of education, mostly because it became obvious, as the high school years passed and he grew up, that my son was learning what we thought he should know to be a good, interesting, strong adult and to survive in the adult world. I'm glad we chose to do it the way we did.

 

Now I'm remaking the same choices for the next child, as we begin high school. And I find myself just as worried as I was back at the beginning of high school with the first. In the end, it turned out to be far more the child's decision than it felt like at the time. We didn't have long family discussions or anything. My husband and I discussed, I worried, I told the child what I was thinking from time to time, and then when it actually came time to do or not do anything, the child said "But why can't I do this-and-such?" and I found a way to make that work GRIN. At the time, I didn't realize how much decision-making the child was doing. It seemed like he wouldn't make decisions when I asked him and he didn't know what he wanted. The second one seems to be doing the same thing.

 

So - no profound words of wisdom. Sorry! We just sort of made a few basic decisions in the beginning and then muddled through in what felt like a rather wishy-washy way. After the first half, we had a better idea of where we were going and how it was working and we proceeded with more confidence. We did a fairly alternative education, one that suited my son and didn't kill his love of learning and included the things that I thought were important and we jumped through just enough hoops that he could get into college. I don't think the college cared what we did at home because his SATs weren't out of line for the college he picked, and his CC classes showed he could do classroom academics.

 

I think it might be different in Canada, so I'm not at all sure anything I've said is the least bit helpful. The nice thing about SATs is that it doesn't have history or science or other content on it so there is no need to teach to the test. The content of my son's education was not at all standard and if he had had to take a different sort of exam, he would probably have done very, very poorly. We also have easy access to a good community college whose entrance requirement is only a math/reading/writing assessment test. Does Canada have other ways of getting into university? In the US, there are usually several back doors into the state university meant for older adults who wish to return to school. Perhaps there is something like that in Canada that you could take advantage of? What do they do with foreign students? Could he do a year of school someplace else and then enter university from there? Could he take the SATs and go to univerisity in the US? Could he go overseas?

 

Maybe someone in Canada has other ideas for you.

 

I truly, truly sympathize with you about feeling angry.

-Nan

[8filltheheart]

I think you are discussing 2 completely different issues. Teaching to the test means that the only material you study, repeatedly, is the material on the test. So, for example, if I know what is on the math portion of the test, instead of simply studying all the material in a math course, I would focus on the material that is on the test. Conversely, the "non-teaching to the test" philosophy believes that if you adequately teach the course material, the student will do well b/c they know all the material and not simply the restricted material on the test.

 

The second portion is the "what" they study......do they study a board range of subjects that interest them or do they study the "list of subjects" required for a specific diploma or college admissions. What does your child want to do? Do they want to pursue higher ed? Do they have a specific school in mind?

 

The answers to 2nd question have to determine the "what." That is the reality. If he studies unconventionally but can still master the skills and tests than there are no problems. If your child needs to study and be taught conventionally in order to master the materials and pass the tests and he wants to attend college.....those are the hoops you have to jump through.

 

FWIW......I make the transition from what you describe between middle school and high school. Middle school is very interest driven here, but high school is influenced by their ultimate goals and desires. Neither of us may like the idea that they have to study and pass x# of SAT IIs, etc, but if that is what the school requires, than that is what we have to do.

 

So......ultimately I do what is necessary for my child to reach the goals he/she has regardless of whether it is what I want to do.

[Nan in Mass]

PS - I found TWTM very helpful for this problem because it tends to divide skills from content. I tried to teach the standard academic skills, but we ranged all over the place on the content.

[Laurie4b]

We do a combination of addressing the student's desires/interests and doing what is necessary to jump through academic hoops in the game of education. Some random thoughts:

 

1. I view my job as sending them off to college with their options open. I believe it is my student's job to "prune" interests in college. I don't want to prune prematurely, but to keep possibilities open to them. For instance, I too, remember nothing about chem, physics, or higher math. However, it was my decision to prune off those areas of knowledge in college. I entered college with the educational background to pursue them. I did know what my bent was a bit earlier, but many students are not like that and are still figuring it out in college. I believe Lori on this board, for instance, had a child who wasn't interested in /didn't think she was good at math in homeschool, who is now a math major and loving it. It was a matter of her brain maturing. So I'm wary of specializing too early. That doesn't mean that I don't know ds1 is not a math guy. However, he will finish high school having done precalculus and AP statistics and possibly a math course at the cc. After that, if he doesn't ever take math, that will be fine. But should he pursue a field that requires math, he's set for it. The other part of pursuing subjects you're not particularly interested in is the discipline of doing stuff that is not interesting. That's part of adult life. I love a lot of my life, but there is plenty that I do because it needs to be done.

 

2. There are academic hoops to jump. This is true in other areas of life. There are times when a job requires x,y,z in terms of hoops. You learn to work within a system. We are part of a system, not individual islands unto ourselves. Sometimes there is a compromise between what we would want ideally for ourselves and the hoops a system requires. I see the gaunlet of SAT's, AP's, etc. as part of the academic "game" we've chosen to engage in. It's just the way it is. If ds wants to get into the school he's got his eye on, he has to jump through some hoops. That's life.

 

3. That all is different from raising someone capable of educating themselves over the course of a lifetime.

 

4. Both of my high school kids are interested in international nonprofits, so we're doing a course in that (pursuing their interest) in combination with a world history survey (which will enable them to take the SAT II or AP) and comparative government AP (which will allow them to study other forms of gov't and take the AP course). The plan is that these three courses will work synergistically (sp?) and give them more of what they are really interested in plus enable them to jump through some hoops.

 

5. In the business world, there is a phrase called hiring to "fix the last problem." That is, if the former employee were disorganized, for instance, but brilliantly creative, but the disorganization caused problems, with the next hire, "organization" can become the first thing looked for in a new candidate. That characteristic may become more heavily weighted than it would otherwise have been, thus creating a new problem. Reading your post, I wonder if there might be some of that in play--fixing "the last problem" (your feelings about your own education, essays, etc.) That may be off base, but just something to figure into the equation.

[JennifersLost]

The real issue with this particular child is that he doesn't want to go to college at all.

 

My freak out is what if he changes his mind in two years and we can't prove what he's done?

 

For example, for history/literature this year we are listening to a slew of Teaching Company lectures together: Foundations of Western History from the ren. to 1850, Conquest of the Americas, The American Revolution and American Great Books (and some of the lectures from a Philosophy survey course). We're reading a list of history books from WTM, and we're reading the books from the American Great Books lectures.

 

In other words, we are covering history backwards and forwards and from every angle. We're listening, reading and discovering. Left to my own devices, he would do a few essays perhaps, or a project or two, but little else in the way of work that we can use to prove what we've done. To me, the lectures and discussion and reading are what's important.

 

We will actually have tons of written proof that we've done math and science - he's doing real full courses. They just don't line up with the Provincial Exams here in Canada because we're using US course material. I'm not sure what test Campbell's Biology Exploring Life lines up with anyway - the SAT II, perhaps?

 

So I think when we get down to it, this is the thing. I'm battling a boy who doesn't want to go to college (and could care less about school right now - which worries me silly), and the constant struggle to match my US curriculum to Canadian tests/college requirements.

 

I know in my heart that whenever (if ever) this child wants to go to college there will be a way to do that. I'd like to be able to define what is good enough. As stated above this year he will be "attending" college level lectures of four different (Teaching Company) classes. I'm not shirking work - I'm not trying to get out of covering what's important. This kid can write; he did get perfect scores on both essays of the Provincial grade 10 English test. He just can't stand busy work.

 

He wants to be a programmer. He spends most of his spare time teaching himself programming languages. He's currently working on a massively mutli-player computer game. The kid just wants to be left alone, LOL.

 

Obviously, I'm not doing that. I'm trying to find the balance.

[HockeyMom]

Jennifer,

 

I can’t really offer much in the way of encouragement - or BTDT advice - as my son is not yet in high school. Perhaps, however, B.C.’s Adult Dogwood is something you’d like to investigate and then chew on a little. Here is a link:

 

http://www.bced.gov.bc.ca/adult_graduation/

 

(Just another option that could give you some peace of mind??)

[mominbc]

I am in BC and you don't have to take the provincials in order to go to college. I have quite a few friends who graduated there children with a portfolio of work and they have been fine. I think its a bit easier with the dogwood but its not at all impossible without it. Here are a few options:

- a lot of colleges will allow entrances with only a English 12 which means thats the only provincial needed.

- keep doing what you are doing and in 2 years your child decides to go to post secondary they can get their GED and get into college as an adult student (there's different requirements for that)

-find an online school who will work with you to do a graduation certificate rather than the dogwood, post secondary schools are accepting these.

I've met great people in the online schools who have given me lots of encouragement at advice. I really think you can "have your cake and eat it too".

 

My son went on "strike" last year because we were teaching to the tests and for the first time was saying "I hate school" this year I am following his lead, what he wants to learn we will do. I do think writing is important and reading great literature so to me thats a must and from there I am letting go a bit. If he doesn't want to finish the dogwood program we can just get a certificate of completion or just tackle to grade 12 provincial.HTH:001_smile:

[Cedarmom]

Sorry, this is off topic, but it does pertain to your lessons. Here in the US a computer programmer needs a college degree(I think). If this is something your son wants to do, I would look into what it takes to be hired somewhere.Then, you can tailor some of your schooling to make that goal. That also might make him feel less like he is doing busywork.

Edited August 24, 2009 by Cedarmom
clarifying

[Deb in NZ]

Using US curriculum & trying to see how it fits with the NZ NCEA exams gave me a huge headache until I decided that we would concentrate on making sure our dc were well prepared to succeed in tertiery education & worry less about getting into their chosen school. We took our 17yod down for her enrollment interview last friday. She wants to study Marine Biology. We left the school with a verbal acceptence & were able to put in her application for student housing. (This school has only 21 spaces in student housing. Dorms are not the norm here.) During the interview she was never asked what she studied at home & it wasn't on her application. She was simply asked if she would have the equivilant by the end of the year. As dd is taking a foundations course at our local polytech, she said "yes" & as long as she gains all the credits, she is accepted into the program. Was I worried about our chosen path? yes. Would I choose the same path for this dc again? yes. Will we follow the same route with her brothers? no, they have different career goals & are of different temperments. Earlier in the week we took ds#1 to see the naval recruiter. We left there with a plan for the next 2 years for him. It is very different from what we did with dd. This is the beauty of HS/ing. We are able to tailor the program to our dc's goals.

 

JMHO,

[Ruth in Canada]

Most Canadian universities that I have looked at seem ready to consider students based on whatever information you can give them. Many strongly encourage SAT IIs or some outside courses--but that doesn't mean that you'd have to do SAT IIs or outside courses in all subjects. A very common way into university in this city is to take advantage of the local university's high school program. (They invite "gifted" high school students to take up to two university courses per semester. For some reason they love homeschoolers, so the overhead hassle to get admitted to your first course is very minor.) This provides direct evidence that the student is capable of university-level work. Students either continue at this university or use their track-record to get into another university.

 

I think you can do some "checking the box" work to ease university acceptance while also pursuing the student's interests. In our case, dd will have a fairly traditional core background but a lot more music than would be possible in a public school setting. This means fewer electives, and fewer of the "civics", "careers", etc. "required" courses. I don't think that not having grade 10 civics is going to concern a university when everything else looks good. Even in the core subjects, we aren't following the provincial recommendations. I think kids need more than just Canadian post-war history, for example; and we're doing a US-style math sequence instead of the provincial one. But--I also know lots of hard core unschoolers who have been admitted to university through the "take a few university courses as a special student then apply to go full time" path.

[Sarah CB]

The real issue with this particular child is that he doesn't want to go to college at all.

 

My freak out is what if he changes his mind in two years and we can't prove what he's done?

 

For example, for history/literature this year we are listening to a slew of Teaching Company lectures together: Foundations of Western History from the ren. to 1850, Conquest of the Americas, The American Revolution and American Great Books (and some of the lectures from a Philosophy survey course). We're reading a list of history books from WTM, and we're reading the books from the American Great Books lectures.

 

In other words, we are covering history backwards and forwards and from every angle. We're listening, reading and discovering. Left to my own devices, he would do a few essays perhaps, or a project or two, but little else in the way of work that we can use to prove what we've done. To me, the lectures and discussion and reading are what's important.

 

We will actually have tons of written proof that we've done math and science - he's doing real full courses. They just don't line up with the Provincial Exams here in Canada because we're using US course material. I'm not sure what test Campbell's Biology Exploring Life lines up with anyway - the SAT II, perhaps?

 

So I think when we get down to it, this is the thing. I'm battling a boy who doesn't want to go to college (and could care less about school right now - which worries me silly), and the constant struggle to match my US curriculum to Canadian tests/college requirements.

 

I know in my heart that whenever (if ever) this child wants to go to college there will be a way to do that. I'd like to be able to define what is good enough. As stated above this year he will be "attending" college level lectures of four different (Teaching Company) classes. I'm not shirking work - I'm not trying to get out of covering what's important. This kid can write; he did get perfect scores on both essays of the Provincial grade 10 English test. He just can't stand busy work.

 

He wants to be a programmer. He spends most of his spare time teaching himself programming languages. He's currently working on a massively mutli-player computer game. The kid just wants to be left alone, LOL.

 

Obviously, I'm not doing that. I'm trying to find the balance.

 

What about getting a high school equivalency certificate instead of a Dogwood? We have a program at Heritage that evaluates a student's high school work and then we issue an equivalency certificate based on a teacher's evaluation of a student's high school level work. It doesn't have to be based on what the scope and sequence for BC is - it can be anything provided it is high school level and there are a variety of subjects. I think the only real restriction is that a social studies 11 course needs to include Canadian gov't content... Basically, a student just looks at the course names (ie. English 10) and does 80 credits worth of work. It doesn't matter what curriculum you use or whether you even look at the PLOs (except for the socials 11 which isn't as rigid as actually doing socials 11 but does ask for some specifics). The teacher evaluates on a yearly basis and in the end you earn the certificate that says you're a graduate of HCOS. We've had lots of students accepted at colleges and universities with this certificate.

 

http://www.onlineschool.ca/downloads/brochure/brochure-gradoptions.pdf

 

There isn't a lot of info about it on our website, but the brochure briefly outlines it. If you're interested contact Janet Rainbow at: jrainbow at onlineschool dot ca.

[Sarah CB]

Most Canadian universities that I have looked at seem ready to consider students based on whatever information you can give them. Many strongly encourage SAT IIs or some outside courses--but that doesn't mean that you'd have to do SAT IIs or outside courses in all subjects. A very common way into university in this city is to take advantage of the local university's high school program. (They invite "gifted" high school students to take up to two university courses per semester. For some reason they love homeschoolers, so the overhead hassle to get admitted to your first course is very minor.) This provides direct evidence that the student is capable of university-level work. Students either continue at this university or use their track-record to get into another university.

 

I think you can do some "checking the box" work to ease university acceptance while also pursuing the student's interests. In our case, dd will have a fairly traditional core background but a lot more music than would be possible in a public school setting. This means fewer electives, and fewer of the "civics", "careers", etc. "required" courses. I don't think that not having grade 10 civics is going to concern a university when everything else looks good. Even in the core subjects, we aren't following the provincial recommendations. I think kids need more than just Canadian post-war history, for example; and we're doing a US-style math sequence instead of the provincial one. But--I also know lots of hard core unschoolers who have been admitted to university through the "take a few university courses as a special student then apply to go full time" path.

 

Ruth,

I haven't actually heard of this (high school students taking one or two university courses) before in Canada. Do you know if any universities have info about this kind of a program on their websites? My daughter is in grade 8 this year but is taking math 11 and we've been hoping that it would be possible for her to take math at UBC while she's still completing high school at home. If there are other schools that are already doing something similar I'd love to know.

[Ruth in Canada]

I would ask at your local university--and if I was told "no", I'd ask again--directly with the department, or someone higher in admissions. Where I live now, there is a specific program for grade 11 and 12 kids. However, when I was 16/17 (and living somewhere else), I took university courses at the local university as a special student. You could also look at Athabasca University, which is known for it's correspondence courses and open admissions policy.

 

My province doesn't have colleges that feed to universities (for the most part), but I'm told there are more of those out west. Do you have that option in BC?

[Peela]

My experience may not be much help either as I am in Australia, but I am definitely treading alternative pathways here. My problem for a long time was not knowing what dd wanted to do. When we found a course that suited, it all fell into place. Its not a university course. It is a Diploma in Mass Communications, specialising in Journalism, at what we call TAFE, which is our equivalent of your community colleges. It's a one year full time course and she has been given a verbal acceptance, based on...well, just my verbal reassurance she could handle it, really! The guy who runs it was thrilled she was a homeschooler and it went from there. The thing is, the course leads directly to 2nd year university if she chooses to go on. I would never have thought we could land on our feet so well....well, we are not there yet, but we have a plan! She has one more year with me homeschooling and we feel really freed up to focus on what we want to focus on - and we will will focus on writing and modern history, to help with the journalism aspect. But we don't "have" to do anything and that feels great! I hope to make time to do more cooking and home skills.

My next child is non academic and who knows what will unfold for him? Having experienced what we have for my older...I actually have some more trust that the universe will unfold exactly as it is meant to for him...I just need to read the signs and not come from a fearful place.

Honestly, with my daughter, I had her to some course at the CC, including a cert in English and Maths equivalent to y11 (when she was in year 10), and she is currently doing a cert in multi media. But she didnt end up really needing them to get into the course she is getting into.

I guess thats all to say maybe a little more trust that ultimately you are not in control of it all and there are many forces at work in our childrens' lives than we can see.

[Melissa in Australia]

In Australia , homeschoolers can get into university several ways, depending on the university and the course.:by doing TAFE courses ( like community collage), by doing open university courses, which may go towards your chosen degree, by sitting the SAT test, or the STAT test, or waiting until you are 23 and going as a mature age student.

my son wants to be an engineer. He is just about to start yr11. I have just this week rung 3 universities in Melbourne and spoken to the heads of the engineering departments. one of the universities was very impressed with the subjects he is doing, and said that if he does all the math that I outlined ( proposed up to Saxon calculus) that she would give him a credit for first year calculus at uni. She wants him to sit the STAT test to get an entrance score. The other 2 universities don't care about the STAT test, but want at least 2 courses of Open University done, and even gave suggestions of courses.

 

My suggestion is to find out about computer programing, and if there is a degree needed, ring the university that offers the degree and find out what they would like to see to get in. This is best done at least a year before they are planing to go, and two years is probably even better as it gives you time to get through the subjects etc.

[Matryoshka]

I'm not sure what test Campbell's Biology Exploring Life lines up with anyway - the SAT II, perhaps?

 

 

I know my brother is using Campbell's Biology Exploring Life for Honors Biology for 9th graders (the "regular" biology class uses the PH Miller/Levine text). His school system is hypercompetitive, with a bunch of rich kids elbowing each other to get into the Ivys or MIT or somesuch. For AP biology (11th or 12th grade, I think - a second year of biology), they use the college Campbell text, which I think is just titled "Biology" (they refer to these two texts as Baby Campbell and Daddy Campbell, lol).

 

What exactly is on those BC exams that Exploring Life doesn't cover? Are they expecting AP (college) level knowledge? Are those tests expected of every kid graduating or just those hoping to specialize in the sciences? I have to say I'm surprised the Exploring Life book is missing anything, unless the tests are expecting 2 years of biology.