Would you do this co-op?? Behavior expectation questions...

[NCMom]

Here is my problem.:glare:

 

I worked w/13dd's co-op class today on an extra project. I have worked with them before one on one and they were ok and fun, if not very focused. There are 3 boys, 4 girls. They are from various backgrounds - previously homeschooled (3), ps (2), and christian school (2). They do not really want to do this extra work; they want to hang out.

 

I knew they had a few issues this year in the class, but it was pretty bad today. The real tutor has not pushed the issue but I know she has been stressed by their behavior even though she has really enjoyed the class.

 

The ones I had today were laughing, mocking each other and me! in a friendly way, two of them were texting each other (and thought I did not know). I asked the other mom who was helping out and she said they were acting up for her also when she tried to help.

 

I'm supposed to tutor these guys next year. So do I really want to spend 1 full day for 30 weeks doing really heavy academics with this group? This has never been a problem for me in a co-op class and I will not put up with it. Not to mention that my dd is being exposed to what amounts to frank disrespect of their tutor, a lack of interest in learning and obviously less than disciplined kids.

 

Maybe I should show grace and just assume it's 13yo behavior and spring fever? But gee it really made me think, lol. Maybe my expectations are too high, but we've done a lot of co-ops and I've never had these problems before. In fact I have a class right now at another co-op that is not an academic co-op w/ kids that are really struggling and we have never had these problems!

 

Btw, I told the parents what went on and after asking twice for them to please focus I told the kids I was done helping until they get it together.

 

My other dd's class does not have these problems - just the normal mouthy 11-12 year olds, lol. I had them this year and they responded pretty well to everything we did. I would so hate for her to miss out next year and I hate, hate, hate the thought of being on our on again. This is our only option, unless I try to start something and I'm too old for that, lol.

 

Georgia

Edited March 31, 2009 by Georgia in NC
left something out

[Ellie]

Maybe I should show grace and just assume it's 13yo behavior and spring fever? But gee it really made me think, lol. Maybe my expectations are too high, but we've done a lot of co-ops and I've never had these problems before. In fact I have a class right now at another co-op that is not an academic co-op w/ kids that are really struggling and we have never had these problems!

A child's age is no excuse for such poor behavior, although spring fever might be.:D

 

This is not something *I* would do. Of course, I'm not real big on these kinds of things, anyway, but even so, it's not something I could tolerate.

[HollyinNNV]

I started a co-op to avoid the issues you describe. Frankly, I don't mind dealing with a few problems-they are to be expected in a co-op situation. However, I would not put up with what you described. I'd rather be on my own.

[Mandamom]

I teach this age group (in small groups -- no more than 4) and I have to say that the behavior is not untypical of 13 year olds. I have one group of 13 year olds that tries to pull stuff like this but another group that isn't. But, at our school we have strict behavior policy and there are consequences for it. If the students aren't prepared to work they aren't allowed to stay in the classroom.

 

I'm not sure whether or not the students respect the instructor's authority if if they don't things will probably get worse. I have found that some groups of kids are better or worse and that sometimes the chemistry is such that one group of 13 year olds can be extremely challenging while another group can be very engaging and fun.

 

Would I keep my kids in that if I had a choice? Probably not. But I would probably do what I could to get things in control -- talking to parents by e-mail or note or meeting; talking to instructor about possible ways to make things easier before I just left. If things weren't better in a week or two than I would be gone.

[Larissa]

I know that this age can be challenging. Our homeschool co-op kids are generally ok, but there are very clear expectations for behavior in place. Are there clear rules for behavior for the co-op or for the class?

Teens tend to test the teacher to see what they can get away with (sort of like toddlers). We make the work fairly rigorous, so they have plenty to keep them busy. I also teach a teenage Sunday School class, where all but my ds are in ps, and they are constantly testing me. I keep telling them, "Look, that might work in ps, but it won't work with me." Kids in public school are not allowed to text, so they shouldn't be allowed to text in co-op either.

 

You have a tough decision. I also find various challenges in co-op, but as the kids get older, we seem to need groups to get things like science labs and writing classes accomplished.

Homeschooling 5 in NJ,

16dd, 13ds, 11dd, 9ds, 6ds

[Harriet Vane]

Your expectations are NOT too high.

 

How did the parents respond when you told them about the problem? That would be a big indicator to me of how things might go next year. Honestly, I have found far too many parents who don't address issues like this, and many who consider co-op situations to be primarily for "socialization." As such they do not perceive socializing in class as a problem.

 

If this is an ongoing issue, and the parents don't address it in a meaningful way, then you should run away fast. Can you observe a few more classes to get a better idea of what is normal for them?

[SonshineLearner]

This is a CC group? I'd blow off today's class. I'd have parents next year sit with their students for at least the first hour, if not the first day. I'd go over a simple rule like, "You may do anything that is (fill in the blank)" For me, with junior high, the word may be "considerate". Then you just hold hard to the line. Learn some behavioural techniques, if they're not natural. I've just read the Love and Logic book for Teachers. First time may be "a look", second you may say a name, third they're out to talk with a parent. Fourth, you're really sorry, but it looks like they need to be excused for the day. Coops/CC/private schools...they're expensive and inconvenient. If parents have to deal with their children being out for the day, they will find a way to make them be cooperative. L&L has all kinds of "mini-talks" for suggestions in their book. Throwing the problem back on the student/family...to come up a solution to the problem. Hold hard and fast from the start....

I'm sure that you can nip it in the bud, next year....Teacher first, friend much later:-)

Carrie

[tex-mex]

Honey,

IMO, those kids were flat out rude to you and the assistant. As a former schoolteacher, I would not expect that type of behavior -- and I taught in some rough inner city schools! My students were always taught to be respectful. (Believe me, I had some REAL delinquents... LOL) It really sounds like there is a problem with the teacher's allowance of the behavior to escalate to this situation -- is she afraid of confronting the kids? Or the parents? I would have spoken to the parents and the Co-Op Board on Day One... you should too. I suspect the kids are being kids -- but do not respect the teacher's authority as she is allowing this to occur. Not good. And the learning process is being disrupted -- texting, rude comments, not being on task, etc.

-- Pat

 

--------------------------------

Former K-6 Schoolteacher (15+ years)

Mom to a wonderful DS (13.5 yr old)

and awesome Hubby (22 yrs of marriage)

HS'er for 5 years

[NCMom]

Honey,

It really sounds like there is a problem with the teacher's allowance of the behavior to escalate to this situation -- is she afraid of confronting the kids? Or the parents? -- Pat

 

Teens tend to test the teacher to see what they can get away with (sort of like toddlers).

 

A child's age is no excuse for such poor behavior, although spring fever might be

 

I think the teacher never truly addressed the issue and it hasn't been corrected. They just transferred that to myself and the other volunteer, lol,and spring fever made it worse.

 

This is a CC group? I'd blow off today's class. I'd have parents next year sit with their students for at least the first hour, if not the first day.

 

Yep. It wasn't really even a class, just extra stuff. I think that I will have to lay out the expectations in crystal clear terms BEFORE I even commit to this. These parents may not really know what's up.

 

I have found that some groups of kids are better or worse and that sometimes the chemistry is such that one group of 13 year olds can be extremely challenging while another group can be very engaging and fun.

 

Yeah, the chemistry in this group is SO much worse than in my 11-12's. These guys are not supportive of others' learning at all, whereas my group really loves it when the whole class can bounce ideas of each other and we are all on the same page.

 

How did the parents respond when you told them about the problem? That would be a big indicator to me of how things might go next year. Honestly, I have found far too many parents who don't address issues like this, and many who consider co-op situations to be primarily for "socialization." As such they do not perceive socializing in class as a problem.

 

Embarrassment and acknowledgment that the kids do not have ownership of this project and that a certain parent is pushing this from 1 parent, no real response from the others. The other problem is that so many of them came from a school situation that they are not getting their usual socialization, hence part of the desire to just hang out and the excuse to behave in this way. :001_smile:

 

I started a co-op to avoid the issues you describe.

 

:blink: Put up or shut up time. ;)

 

Thanks everyone. I gotta get some clarification today and see how things go.

Georgia

[Pamela H in Texas]

I wouldn't take that group UNLESS there was a basic built-in structure and I had some latitude to discipline. No way will I EVER take a classroom again without such things. My first experience was so bad. But I had NO power at all the way it was set up and the great majority of parents and students took advantage of it. This group also attended a private school class together twice a week and the teacher DID have some things on her side (grades, principal, ability to ask students to leave, etc). At least they were bearable with those basic things to semi-control them though my understanding is that they were still obnoxious compared to most high schoolers.

 

Anyway, so is the structure in your favor? Will you have some latitude to discipline as necessary? Obviously, going in you can set some ground rules within the confines of the basic group dynamic, but is it enough for YOU? If you can't answer those things and feel confident about the situation, I'd not touch it with a ten-foot pole. Homeschoolers can be the most exasperating classes a teacher can work with.

 

I don't mean to be negative...in fact, it's REALLY against my nature. If you had a class daily, you could set in motion a different set of circumstances within the confines of just about any structure, but one day a week and a loose structure and not really established discipline? EEEK.

Edited March 31, 2009 by 2J5M9K

[Harriet Vane]

I think the teacher never truly addressed the issue and it hasn't been corrected. They just transferred that to myself and the other volunteer, lol,and spring fever made it worse.

 

 

 

Yep. It wasn't really even a class, just extra stuff. I think that I will have to lay out the expectations in crystal clear terms BEFORE I even commit to this. These parents may not really know what's up.

 

Major red flags here. I have tried this in more than one group situation with only limited success. I lay out my expectations for discipline or homework or whatever individually with each parent, AND in group meetings before the class, AND in writing to each parent and each child, AND in class. Those parents who share my goals are not the problem--those parents who do not see what the big deal is but agree anyway do not enforce their agreement, and then we have problems. I would NOT base your decision on whether or not they agree to your terms, but on how the class behaves now, and what the parents will do about the behavior when alerted to it.

 

 

Embarrassment and acknowledgment that the kids do not have ownership of this project and that a certain parent is pushing this from 1 parent, no real response from the others. The other problem is that so many of them came from a school situation that they are not getting their usual socialization, hence part of the desire to just hang out and the excuse to behave in this way. :001_smile:

 

Major red flags here as well. Whether or not the kids have ownership they should still behave, period. And the history of how the project happened or who is pushing it is irrelevant. And the desire to socialize, while understandable, is not an adequate reason for the kind of disrespect you describe. In other words, this sounds like a list of weak excuses and non-response. As a teacher, I would run away from this group. If a student is in class, they should participate in class respectfully and to the best of their ability, personal feelings about the class aside.

 

I teach a class once a week to several girls and my dd. I have been doing this for many years. About once a year (usually in February!) the girls have a bad class wherein they just are floppy, silly, fidgety. This year the bad class was colossally bad--they were so slaphappy they were just useless, and they were terribly disrespectful in terms of speaking over me, joking over me, and not settling to work. I gave up on teaching and told them all why in plain terms. They realized they blew it and settled down to their assignment for the last 15 minutes of class. I emailed the moms describing the behavior, and each mom apologized to me, required their girls to apologize, and agreed with me that the following class meeting the girls would NOT have their socializing time afterward as they normally did. I did not rant and rave at the moms--I simply told them what happened, they were horrified, and we brainstormed a good response together (via email). We have had no problems since.

 

This is more the response I would have expected from the moms in your situation. What you describe does not sound good. I would not teach a group wherein the parents' did not demonstrate an understanding of classroom manners and a willingness to hold the kids to those standards.

 

 

 

My thoughts above.

[G5052]

I've taught part-time at local community colleges for ten years, and have rarely had a serious problem in class. I set a firm tone from day one, and am not above asking a student to leave class if they're causing problems (which includes any kind of cell phone use or computer use other than to take notes). I've never lost my temper in class either. And yet I hear horror stories all the time including one last night from a student who told me that his English professor routinely used profanity to chew the class out for not doing well on tests and assignments. I can't imagine.

 

Either you set high expectations and carry them out, or you get what you experienced. One local CC tutor has parents sign a behavior contract with specific conditions where a student will not be allowed to continue, and she booted out several this last year, including one that wasn't doing much of the homework at all. And yet, from what I've been told, her class is already full and has a waiting list for next year...

[74Heaven]

As an assistant in 3 co op classes for the past 2 years; I have noticed very different teaching styles and very different class behavior. Both are wonderful teachers with very different teaching styles and very different approaches to conflict.

 

I think unless the children are very difficult behavior problems, any teacher who is confident and takes command and is loving and encouraging - can win the day and set the tone for their class that fits their teaching styles, goals and the classroom demeanor. I think the love alongside the discipline (even just a stern "sentence reprimand") is the key!

 

lisaj

[Pam L in Mid Tenn]

I had a similar problem last year. I went to the parents, explained the behavoir, and asked that if their student did not want to be in the class and participate respectfully, then please take them out of the class. I never had another problem.

 

If the class is mainly for socialization, then I would format it for fun and allow some cutting up. If the class is mainly for academics, then I would expect serious students to attend.

[shanvan]

Your expectations are NOT too high.

 

How did the parents respond when you told them about the problem? That would be a big indicator to me of how things might go next year. Honestly, I have found far too many parents who don't address issues like this, and many who consider co-op situations to be primarily for "socialization." As such they do not perceive socializing in class as a problem.

 

If this is an ongoing issue, and the parents don't address it in a meaningful way, then you should run away fast. Can you observe a few more classes to get a better idea of what is normal for them?

 

:iagree:We did not run away from the same situation fast enough. So much time and effort wasted -- which I could have spent on my own homeschooling! Without appropriate behavior in place not much is going to be learned - - except more inappropriate behavior!!!