Just got the full and final results of my dd's ed evaluation

[Greta]

(Sorry this is so long. If you're not interested in the whole story, skip to the last paragraph!)

 

I just got home from speaking with the people who did my dd's evaluation at the public school, and here is what they said. Her IQ is higher than average (though not high enough to be considered "gifted"), but her academic performance was barely average all the way across the board, in math and language. So, she's not considered "learning disabled" because her performance is average. But her performance is not what you would expect for her IQ, so clearly there is a problem.

 

They said the one problem that showed up very clearly on her tests was "processing speed". In any test of fluency (again, whether math or language or whatever), she did very poorly. By way of contrast, she did very well on tests of comprehension. So the understanding is there, but the speed is not.

 

They also told me that they cannot make a diagnosis of ADHD because that is a medical diagnosis, not an educational one, but basically strongly implied that is what we're looking at. They said if I wanted to pursue it further, I should speak to our family doctor. They said that there is a strong correlation with ADHD kids performing poorly on the processing speed parts of the test, and that's exactly what we saw with her. Also, the woman who performed the evaluation had noted in her report that my dd would seem to "zone out" and drift away during the test. Sometimes she was just thinking deeply about the question, but many times she'd be a million miles away, having completely forgotten what she was supposed to be doing.

 

So for those of you who have been following my story, I want to thank you again for all the help and support you have given me so far. And if you have any further advice for me about ADHD, I am eager to learn. I plan to call our doctor tomorrow (it's too late this evening), though not with the intention of medicating her if that is his diagnosis. I am extremely hesitant to go that route. I would much rather learn about any lifestyle and educational-style changes we could make first.

 

So, those of you out there who are homeschooling ADHD children, please tell me how you do it! How have you adapted your teaching to their needs? Do you use particular curriculum, or is it more about *how* you implement any given curriculum? They recommended shorter lessons, because apparently my dd made the comment more than once that she likes homeschooling but wishes she could have more breaks because she just gets so tired. So when I hear shorter lessons, I tend to think of Charlotte Mason. Do you think CM is a good style for ADHD kids? Any other advice you can offer me or resources you could point me to?

 

Thank you! I don't know what I'd do without you guys!

[JennW in SoCal]

Hi Greta,

 

I'm about to graduate my son who is ADHD and who, like your dd, always tested as bright to gifted -- had great comprehension and understanding of concepts -- and always struggled with processing speed. Still struggles. This is our 10th year of homeschooling, so I've had time to try all kinds of things with him.

 

First of all, don't discount medication. Don't rush into either -- by all means start with modifying her environment and how and what you teach. That's what we did the first 5 years of homeschooling, but by the time ds was 12 and attempting middle school work, we had hit a brick wall. We finally decided to try meds, and it made a HUGE difference. He still uses them as needed -- a very low dose of ritalin that lasts about 4 hours. What the meds do, as he has described, is to let him focus without the work of trying to focus. Without the meds, most of his energy is spent on focusing, leaving very little mind power for the tasks at hand, which by middle school are pretty taxing -- algebra, essays, science text books. He can function without them, especially when doing the kind of work that he loves, but his academic success would suffer without them. (They have made the ordeal of standardized testing much easier, too.)

 

When thinking about altering school, don't think method, just think about what clicks for your dd. If she is showing signs of fatigue, stop. If she is really into a subject, find as much material for her as you can and let her spend as much time on it as she wants. Don't feel obligated to get through a text book -- especially at this age. She will likely make connections from the oddest bits of information, and you likely will not be able to predict what will make those connections click. I like to think that I've just been throwing things at my ds over the years, and some things stuck while some didn't!

 

Do math for 20 minutes, do the problems on a big wipe off board with bright markers. Don't do math at a table but instead sprawl out on the floor. If you prefer a table, get a big exercise ball for her to sit on. Sounds counter-intuitive, but sitting on a ball that doesn't stay still actually frees up the ADHD mind for whatever task is at hand.

 

Latin Prep has nice short lessons, and that wonderful irreverent dry humor. Again, keep it short. Take breaks and allow her to move -- insist she move!!

 

Don't think of learning as only being book related. Let her do crafts if she enjoys them, read as much as she likes -- try audio books so she can move and do things while listening. Watch documentaries, visit museums. Let her learn how to type ASAP so she doesn't fatigue too quickly in writing assignments. Let her dictate to you, or do as much work orally as possible keeping written work to a minimum. I skipped lots of workbook type work with my ds -- we'd cover a lesson, talk about it and move on. Repetition, dry lessons, and busy work comprehension questions just sucked out any ability to focus.

 

I let my ds follow his interests as much as possible. Even for high school history and literature I tailored the course content to fit him. He has worked as a volunteer in the tech department at our church since he was 13, and is now responsible for the lighting design of regular and special services there. He has learned more by doing than he ever did from books at home, and through all his hands on experience he has become a very respected volunteer at church and in the youth theater group he is in. (He will be heading into a tech-theater internship next year and going to community college part time.)

 

ADHD is not a medical condition -- at least not as I understand it. There isn't a blood test they give that comes back with a definitive diagnosis. It is one of the conditions listed in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual, and the diagnosis is made by looking at a spectrum of behavioral traits and how long these traits have been present in the child. You can probably google DSM-IV and ADHD and take a look at the criteria for giving the diagnosis.

 

As I said -- don't worry if you are doing "Charlotte Mason" or "Classical" or whatever. Do what works. Think about what you want for your dd by the time she graduates, and work your way towards that goal. It will not look like anyone else's education, but it will be the education that works for her.

 

There is a book that just came out, written by the sister (I think) of a regular on this board, called Homeschooling Your Stuggling Learner. There are other similar titles out there which you might find useful. I liked Mel Levine's book A Mind at a Time, even though it wasn't about homeschooling per se, but it gave me reassurance every time I was at my wit's end.

 

Whew! Long answer, but you've got a long road ahead of you still. Hope something from my post is helpful.

[EKS]

I seem to remember that you had concerns about your daughter having dyslexia. School evaluations miss dyslexia all the time. My son is gifted, has dyslexia, and has ADD behaviors. When he was tested by the school in 2nd grade the report came back average across the board. They told us we should get an ADD diagnosis from the doctor. They completely missed the gifted thing, the dyslexia, the sensory processing issues.

 

My point here is that I would not go the ADD route just because the school thinks that's what it is. There is something called "stealth dyslexia" where a bright/gifted child learns to read ok but still has trouble with spelling and writing and other things that dyslexics have trouble with. The book The Mislabeled Child by Brock and Fernette Eide is a good one for sorting out things like this.

[LizzyBee]

How much was the discrepancy between IQ and performance? In the past a child would be considered to have a learning disability if there was a 15-20 point discrepancy. Due to recent legislative changes, schools are no longer tied to this discrepancy. My friends who have kids in school are telling me that kids can no longer get services unless they are failing. I mention this because it's possible a private practitioner would diagnose your child as learning disabled even though the school didn't.

 

My 12 yo has a slow processing speed. We wondered if she has ADHD-inattentive type. But it turns out that she doesn't have ADHD - the slow processing speed makes her seem inattentive but she really is not. She has to think long and hard to retrieve info from long term memory, and it makes her look as though she's daydreaming.

 

I second The Mislabeled Child. For years, I struggled to understand whether my 12 yo has learning disabilities, or if it just seems that way to me because her learning style is opposite of mine. I read so many books, but when I read the dyslexia chapter of The Mislabeled Child, my kid's name was written all over it. It describes her perfectly. I didn't even look at dyslexia when I first started homeschooling her, because I thought dyslexia was a reading disability - I didn't realize until several years later that it's much broader than that and some dyslexics learn to read without too much difficulty.

 

My 7 yo has ADHD-combined type, along with APD, SPD, and severe dyslexia, and I can only get about an hour of focus from her on a good day. We're trying a few things, but at this point, I have only commiseration, no wisdom to offer. Thanks, JennW, for your long post!

[Greta]

Jennifer, thank you so so much for all this information and encouragement! I can't tell you how great it is to "talk" to someone who has been through this.

 

I appreciate what you said about medication, and will keep that option open for her later on. Interestingly, one of the women at the PS who was involved in this was telling me today that her son has ADHD and that while he doesn't use medication very often, there are times when he absolutely needs it and it really helps him, especially when he's testing. I didn't even realize before she mentioned it that the medication could be an occasional thing. I guess I thought it was like anti-depressants, where you have to take the medication consistently. So I will keep that "filed" for future reference. :)

 

When she's interested in a subject, she's REALLY interested in it. To the point where I get bored with it and want to move on. But I guess I need to overcome that tendency in myself, and allow her to explore her passions as fully as she wants to.

 

She is also incredibly creative. I am just awed by it, because I am so very NOT creative! Seemingly out of nowhere (neither hubby nor I are particularly artistic) she has an amazing talent for drawing and creating. I'm telling myself that maybe this is the positive side of ADHD! And rather than focusing all my energy on helping her overcome her weaknesses, I really want to help her fully develop her natural talents. So dh and I were talking about this just this evening, that we're going to allow her more time for her artwork, and maybe even enroll her in an art class if we can somehow find the money to do it.

 

That's interesting that you said to make her move. I've always thought of ADHD as that disorder that makes kids bounce off the walls. She's definitely not like that, not physically hyperactive at all. But recently she has started taking Taekwondo lessons, and I think her concentration has improved! That was another bit of advice that I got from the school today, was to make sure she's physically active, and even break up our school time with some exercise.

 

I am very "left-brained" and always did well in school, actually enjoyed worksheets and textbooks. So it's hard for me to let go of the vision that that is what school is supposed to be. I am realizing, though, that I'm going to have to change my perspective and get outside of my comfort zone in order to be the best teacher that I can for her.

 

Didn't mean to make this so long. Thank you again for your help!

[Greta]

Hello Kai. You're right, that was my original concern. But the tests did show that her academic performance was pretty consistent across the board, whether in math or in language. So I'm thinking maybe I was wrong about that. She actually scored even slightly higher in language that she did in math, and that really surprised me because I've always considered math her strong point. Still, spelling is obviously a problem area for her, so I do plan to use a program meant for dyslexics, because I think that would be the most helpful for her. Beyond that, would you have any other recommendations for me?

[Greta]

In the past a child would be considered to have a learning disability if there was a 15-20 point discrepancy. Due to recent legislative changes, schools are no longer tied to this discrepancy.

 

Interesting that you should bring that up. The kind lady who did dd's evaluation had at first written up her report to say that she does have a learning disability because of the discrepancy between her IQ and her performance. I don't remember the numbers at the moment, but it was enough to qualify in times past. But she said her supervisor had reminded her that because of recent changes it can't count as a learning disability unless performance is below average, and my dd's is just average. So she had to change her report!

 

But what was interesting to me was that across the board in all subject areas, she tested very high in comprehension, and her only low scores were when speed was required. So clearly the intelligence is there, but her inability to do things quickly is hurting her in all subject areas. I don't know if that's a genuine learning disability or not. But obviously it's that processing speed that needs to be addressed. Now I just have to figure out how. :confused:

[Michelle T]

My DS is 12.5. He is also diagnosed with dyspraxia and dyscalculia. Learning is a huge struggle for him, he has a low-normal IQ, and often doesn't understand even 3rd grade materials.

 

Anyway, he sits on a big, rubber exercise ball whenever I read to him. He usually sits on the ball while watching TV or on the computer, too.

 

We keep lessons short. Most subjects are no more than 20 minutes per day. I think a fairly predictable routine is also beneficial. If my DS knows what to expect, he is usually more able to control himself.

 

Year round schooling, four days per week. Long breaks are bad news. He forgets everything he has learned, and without our regular routine, his behavior really disintegrates.

 

As much exercise as possible.

 

Protein in the morning. My guy takes Ritalin LA on school days, which makes a HUGE difference in his ability to focus. He still has absolutely no impulse control though, and no ability to understand consequences, or plan/make goals.

 

Most/many kids with ADHD love hands-on learning. My guy does not, due to his dyspraxia, but if he didn't have that, I'd do as much hands-on as I could. In fact, I would probably use a unit study approach to homeschooling. You can adapt anything though, if you really prefer a particular style, or your DD does.

 

Keep handwriting to a minimum. Most ADHD kids have a hard time with the physical act of writing. Let your DD use the computer for writing if this is a problem for her.

 

Accept that some days are just going to be bad days. There are times when for no reason I can figure, my DS just isn't able to learn a thing. He can't focus, can't sit still, sits there giggling at nothing, can't stop talking about pointless topics, and just generally is off in la-la land. When those days happen, I usually don't bother with much, as I've learned it's a waste of time.

 

Ummmm, I'm sure there's more, but I can't think of it at the moment. Too tired!

Michelle T

[JennW in SoCal]

Hey back, Greta!

 

Tae Kwon Do is a great for concentration. It helped my son quite a bit, too. I was told, back when we were first doing all the testing waaaayy back when that deep muscle exercise is best for helping kids focus. I was told to have my ds carry in the heavy bags and the gallons of milk when we come back from the store, or to wheelbarrow walk him around the house, and later to do things like push ups. Swimming is also supposed to be good, though my ds never has liked water -- sensory integration issues there.

 

About the testing scores and qualifying for the "learning disabled" label from the school district. We had the same experience that my ds scored too well to qualify for any services, but what he did get was the 504 classification, which means he gets special accommodations which has been critical to have on his record. His accommodations include being able to take tests in a separate room away from the crowds, to have extra time for assignments, to have someone take notes for him, or to have the teacher always go over assignments individually. These 504 accommodations will accompany him to college which is a huge relief because he needs these more than he needs ritalin! We started homeschooling through a public charter umbrella for high school, and he used these accommodations for the few classes he took through the school, and for each year's standardized testing and the California high school graduation exam.

 

By the way, are you in Albuquerque? The mile high desert and faux adobe references remind me of my hometown!!

 

Oh, and the thing that helped me let go of my own work-sheet happy schooling personality was to read unschooling books. Not that we ever purely unschooled, but I learned to recognize and trust his style of learning. My ds also started out in school, and I came to realize he had learned far more from us just exploring his interests at home than he ever did in a structured school environment, so I let go and let him do his thing. And yeah, he too is creative and way outside the box!

 

I'm happy to have encouraged you! Since he is in his final semester I'm feeling very nostalgic and am amazed we both have lived to tell the tale!

[LizzyBee]

Interesting that you should bring that up. The kind lady who did dd's evaluation had at first written up her report to say that she does have a learning disability because of the discrepancy between her IQ and her performance. I don't remember the numbers at the moment, but it was enough to qualify in times past. But she said her supervisor had reminded her that because of recent changes it can't count as a learning disability unless performance is below average, and my dd's is just average. So she had to change her report!

 

But what was interesting to me was that across the board in all subject areas, she tested very high in comprehension, and her only low scores were when speed was required. So clearly the intelligence is there, but her inability to do things quickly is hurting her in all subject areas. I don't know if that's a genuine learning disability or not. But obviously it's that processing speed that needs to be addressed. Now I just have to figure out how. :confused:

 

The EdPsych who evaluated my kids said that processing speed can't be treated - it has to be accomodated. Maybe at some future time they'll be a treatment, but there currently isn't one, unfortunately. But if you find out differently, let me know!

 

People can be downright brilliant and still have an LD. If you read the definition of an LD from the IDEA law, basically a person who has an LD is someone who doesn't learn best by using traditional teaching methods. Under the old law, your dd has an LD and under new law, she doesn't; but either way, she's struggling.

 

I am an extremely left-brained person, too. My younger 2 kids are so different from me. I feel your pain in that dept!!

[cathmom]

My older dd was diagnosed with moderate to severe dyslexia and dysgraphia this summer. But even with that, she had learned to read at age 7. We began when she was almost 6 with Saxon Phonics and just kept working at it until she began to read. She really likes reading also. I consider this a very big homeschooling victory because dc with dyslexia in school frequently feel that they are dumb and learn to hate reading. However, even though I thought her reading was fine, she is about 2 grade levels below where she should be for her age.

 

I just wanted to share that some dc with dyslexia can read. Good luck with your dd!

[Terabith]

I could be wrong, but I am pretty sure processing speed CAN be treated.

 

I would try to have her evaluated by an occupational therapist to see if there are any underlying sensory integration issues. Also, sometimes things like Interactive Metronome can be very, very helpful for concentration and processing speed. I would try to get her doing quite a bit of exercise. You might also want to have an evaluation done by a developmental optometrist to see if she has any vision issues that are contributing to the problem.

 

Vigorous exercise in the morning before doing any school work. Then move into some Brain Gym activities. Martial arts, gymnastics or dance, swimming, ice skating, yoga, and horseback riding are great helps for many ADD kids.

 

Take frequent breaks. Send her out to run around the block three times. Do push ups, sit ups, and stretches every 20 minutes. Have her jump rope for five minutes in between subjects. It's great for your fitness too! Exercise wakes up the brain.

 

I second the sitting on an exercise ball idea.

 

Consider medication. But you might want to investigate biofeedback as well.

 

Experiment with diet and supplements. Omega 3's/ fish/ cod liver oil can be immensely supportive. I know a lot of folks who have had great success following the Fengold diet for ADD. Maybe even have her checked out by a chiropractor. It sounds kooky, but it can help some kids. I think there are some homeopathic remedies for focus.

 

Activities that work on balance and timing can be really helpful at improving concentration and processing speed. I'd read about Balametrics and see if you think it could help your daughter.

 

But the thing I would look into the most would be Brain Skills or PACE. It specifically works on those skills, and it has a very good track record, even though it is expensive and very hard work for the child. But everyone I've known who has gone through it (and I've known quite a few) have said it is worth every penny.

 

I've known several folks who have taken four months off from heavy academics and just done the absolute minimum and focused on physical activity and therapies (PACE, Balametrics or Interactive Metronome). They have said that the gains were tremendous.

[Greta]

Wow, thank you for all these wonderful suggestions, Terabith. I am not at all familiar with many of the things you mentioned. But that's exactly why I need help from people like you! I will start researching your suggestions.:001_smile:

[Greta]

Yes, I am in Albuquerque! I've been here for ten years now, and even though I didn't grow up here, it feels like home. There are a couple of things about it that I don't care for, and okay one thing I hate, but overall it's a great place. Could you ask for a better climate? I love the stunning desert sunsets and the clear, dry air, and the big bright blue sky. Oh, and the complete absence of mosquitoes, black flies, chiggers, and ticks! :D There's really no other place in the US that I'd rather be, although Europe definitely holds some appeal. Where are you now, and do you like it?

 

That "deep muscle" stuff is very interesting. I read somewhere that lots of ADHD kids do well bouncing on a mini trampoline while reciting multiplication facts or whatever. Might have to give that a try. And I will try to get off my, um, chair more often and do physical things with her to break up the day. Like you said, I'm sure that would be good for both of us.

 

Have you ever read any of Thom Hartmann's books about ADHD? I just started one today, and I really find his take fascinating.

[Guest JaneB]

We did not continue with home schooling as planned and have our sone enrolled in public school (wish we could afford private). We learned in Spring 2008 that he has severe dysgraphia and the Occupational Therapist outlined what accomodations are required. We pushed the school system for a full evaluation and learned that he also has an IQ of 138. He is in 3rd grade and is reading 5th and 6th grade level books (he loves to read), but he struggles in math. His scores indicated a big discrepancy between ability (IQ) and the work he is doing. Focus is a big issue and especially when he is frustrated. The accomodations the OT recommended are not being provided by the school, so we scheduled a meeting with faculty and a local psychologist to get discussion going on how to help him feel successful. Working with him at home on school works turns our home into a battlefield. Of course, the work he is bringing home is the work he is struggling with at school - math and writing assignments. We purchased a typing program for him to use on the computer. He learned that he can bypass the lessons to get to the games, so we have to stay by him to get him to put some effort into learning to type. The school counselor suggested he might have ADHD, but the child psychologist said he does not. She is meeting with us at the school next week to support our position (being ignored by the school) that they need to make the appropriate accomodations so our son can get his school work done without frustration, then we can all work on the writing skills. From reading the forum this sounds very similar to other postings. Other information that may be helpful but not pertinent to other children is that we adopted our son when he was 2 1/2 years old. He did not receive proper care in the first 8 months of his life, which is thought to be an explanation for this issue (dysgraphia). We are reconsidering home schooling because the school is not helping the situation and adding to frustrations.

[JennW in SoCal]

I'm in San Diego now, but grew up in Abq and attended UNM for a few years. None of my family is there any more, so it's been a while since I've been back. I do miss it, though there is little to complain about in San Diego!

 

Haven't read Thom Hartmann, but both my kids bounced quite a bit in our early years on those Hop 55 balls. I distinctly remember my son doing math problems while bouncing around the living room. He just paces now when he has to think -- makes me crazy, but it works for him!

[Oak Knoll Mom]

 

They said the one problem that showed up very clearly on her tests was "processing speed". In any test of fluency (again, whether math or language or whatever), she did very poorly. By way of contrast, she did very well on tests of comprehension. So the understanding is there, but the speed is not.

 

 

I'm resurrecting this old thread to ask how your daughter is doing. My son is currently being evaluated and I already know there is a high likelihood of ADHD (inattentive type) and processing issues. I've been reading old threads and there's a lot about what you write about your daughter that reminds me of my son. Hope things are going well.

[SailorMom]

Just an FYI, food for thought, sort of comment....

 

In first grade my son was evaluated by a public school. Said his IQ was low, he was working at ability and so didn't qualify for assistance, had no learning disabilities, and had ADD....

 

I knew they were wrong..... He had: dyslexia, dysgraphia, dyscalculia, etc. For years I've been being told by OT and Speech therapisys to have him mediacted for ADD or ADHD. PCM and others wanted to medicate....

 

Fast forward to last week with the neuropsych eval we just had....

DS has above average attention span - no ADD or ADHD at all - in fact- the doc was shocked people had tried to medicate him - said he had phenomenal concentration. Diagnosed him with an above average IQ (about 45 points higher than the public school said), and said all of my thoughts of all of the "dys's" he has were correct. He told me my DS was very lucky I didn't listen to the PS and did all of this homeschooling for him, as he would have been stuck in special ed and left to fail by them.

 

Public schools are notorious for testing kids and saying, "Oh - they are average, "or "Oh - this is just as good as they can do" so that the school district won't have to pay for services.

 

I am not saying to ignore it, but if you can - I would go to a neuropsych - much more thourough and accurate.

[wapiti]

Public schools are notorious for testing kids and saying, "Oh - they are average, "or "Oh - this is just as good as they can do" so that the school district won't have to pay for services.

 

I am not saying to ignore it, but if you can - I would go to a neuropsych - much more thourough and accurate.

 

:iagree: I would want a psych/neuropsych to evalute the add/adhd issue. I would not trust the school's opinion, or even the family doc, with such a possible diagnosis.

 

FWIW, I have a few kids with slow processing speed issues. None of them have been diagnosed with adhd. The one with the slowest processing speed does seem like he has attention issues sometimes, but I'm not at a point where I want to medicate (I'm trying to go the find-the-missing-nutrient/supplement route at the moment - long story). Slow processing speed is not a component of the diagnosis of adhd. ADHD is not the only LD associated with slow processing speed, and indeed lots of folks have slow processing speed without having any particular official LD diagnosed.

 

If you haven't already done so, I'd look at the official criteria and see if you think your child might meet them. http://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/adhd/diagnosis.html

[Guest]

Here's another parent with a child who has slow processing and is not by any means ADD or ADHD. My child was (and to some extent still is) dysgraphic.

[Tiramisu]

We're struggling with a dc with high reasoning skills but low, though technically average, processing speed but with low working memory, too. One perceptual reasoning subtest was really, really low but no one has been able to tell me exactly why. How can a kid get a 17 on one subtest and a 6 on another? I would like to get a full neuropsych eval. but cannot deal with the cost.

 

One thing that really scares me is that it seems like the her memory is worse than it's ever been. Once she could easily remember everything and now it's become a struggle, though she's disciplined with doing her school work. I've talked to our doctor, and I'm thinking more and more about doing a test run with the meds just to see if it would help so could have that recourse if necessary to deal with the occasional episodes of frustration. I never thought I'd reach this point.

Edited October 11, 2010 by NJKelli

[lisa diane]

Hello Everyone,

I am new to these boards, and I am a new home school mom to my 11 year old son.:confused: We are seeing a child psychologist Thursday. I am concerned that he has some attention issues. He has many of the symptoms listed under ADD and (? Ashberger) ... can't remember how to spell it.

I have been reading some of the posts and you folks give out some great advice. I am so glad that a friend of mine recommended these boards. Any other advice that you have for a new home school mom would be greatly appreciated. We are doing a very watered down version of Abeka. He is having so much trouble focusing, and managing his anxiety that I had to eliminate some of it for now. Accepting further advice! Thank you all so much!!!