Constant disrespect-me again-in the schoolroom

[happyWImom]

This goes along with my previous "constant disrespect" thread, but it involves the schoolroom. I wanted to see if any of you have dc with personalities like my dd.

 

When we do our click n kid phonics & ETC online, she is great. Likes it, learns, etc... The reason she likes it though, is because she is the one in control, and I am not telling her what to do.:glare: If I am reading aloud, things are also fine, as well as doing math type games, but anything with workbook type stuff -like ETC, she has total attitude again. "Don't watch me, go away, I KNOW!" All said in the nastiest tone. It's not just the authority thing, because she's not like that with any other teacher, just me. I have told her I won't tolerate disrespect, and yet it continues. Anyone else with similar situations in school? How do you handle it? I never do time-outs, because that's what she wants, to stop the "boring stuff". And I tell her that we do need to get through it, and if we don't plans will be cancelled, she won't get to watch shows, etc...

[LisaKinVA]

How about the time-out penalty PLUS an extra page of the "boring" stuff.

 

When it was time to sit down with the boring stuff, I'd simply say something to the effect of, "I'm going to sit here next to you, while you work on X. If you cannot complete the assignment without complaint, and a good attitude, you will immediately have a 6 minute time-out, and will earn an extra page of X, which you will complete INSTEAD of watching show Y. Do you understand? (Child answers yes), So, what is the consequence of complaining or a poor attitude with this assignment? (Child should repeat, in own words, the discipline you outlined).

 

I don't normally reccommend using school work as a form of punishment/discipline -- but if she's essentially trying to manipulate the situation to get out of the "boring stuff" -- more of the "boring stuff" is actually an appropriate response.

 

For example, if I had a child who wouldn't help clean-up, they'd get an extra clean-up chore to do all on their own (unfortunately??, cleaning the toilet is viewed as a reward in this house...:lol:)

[coffeefreak]

I also involve Dad the "Principal." The girls know whatever punishment I dole out for disrespect, Dad will dole out equal when he gets home. If I make them do extra work for disrespect (I did the other day), Dad will find some extra work of his own for them to do. They hate that!

[coralloyd]

For anything that is distasteful that comes out of thier mouth (whining, complaining, lying) I have them drink 1/2 tsp. of vinegar or lemon juice (my oldest likes lemon juice so we switched to vinegar :)). I tell them that the way they are speaking is yucky to my ears and I don't think I should have to edure it alone. It is fast, and it works.

[LisaKinVA]

For anything that is distasteful that comes out of thier mouth (whining, complaining, lying) I have them drink 1/2 tsp. of vinegar or lemon juice (my oldest likes lemon juice so we switched to vinegar :)). I tell them that the way they are speaking is yucky to my ears and I don't think I should have to edure it alone. It is fast, and it works.

 

I'd be tempted to try this, but I have three (yes THREE) who can make themselves throw up...

[claire up north]

Well, I would start handing out time-outs. Big ones. She won't "want" a time-out when it means an hour in your room for each infraction and you *still* have to do the "boring stuff."

 

The issue here is the disrespect. For me, I wouldn't care if my kid EVER finished another page of ETC in his life--he would rot in time-out until he learned to communicate properly to me.

 

It is one thing to say that you don't allow disrespectful talk, but sometimes you have to enforce that rule. I am a big one for time-outs (it just works for us around here), but here are some other options I have used successfully.

 

1. No book at bedtime.

2. No dessert.

3. Cancel the plans for the afternoon. (You might want to give your friends a heads-up that you might have to pull this consequence out of the bag so that they are not caught unawares. But you can bet that I would not reward disrespectful behavior with an afternoon playdate!)

4. Extra chores.

5. Explaining to dad the bad behavior. (Not just listening to you complain to dad--the kid has to say it all.)

6. Not allowed to participate in something fun that the rest of the kids are doing (Wii time, movie watching, etc.) This one seems particularly painful to my dc, so I usually only require them to miss about 20 minutes or so. Any more would be considered "cruel and unusual."

 

Hope you get some ideas from this.

[KJB]

Even if the work is totally on her level and it *seems* easy for her, it's possible that it takes all of her concentration. You might be a distraction for her and unintentionally making the work more difficult.

 

I know when I've got something I'm working on and someone is hovering or even trying to encourage me, it drives me batty. In your shoes, I'd hand her the work and then go sit across the room. If she wants your help, let her come to you.

 

I don't tolerate disrespect, but I do try and figure out where it's coming from if my kids are acting out.

[Parrothead]

What do you do that shows your dd that you won't tolerate disrespect? What ever it is, I think it is safe to say it isn't working. Do you follow through with canceling plans, electronics? If you aren't following through then she knows you don't mean any of it. If you are following through then canceling/banning isn't what works with her.

 

Consistency is the key. But you have to find out which way to go. Claire has some great ideas on where to start.

 

I'd also have a discussion about expectations. You can talk to me and tell me how you feel about me helping, but you can't do it with a tone. Any tone, instant consequences.

[Maria/ME]

My dd10 (see your previous post) hates workbooks and reading out loud.

 

We canned work books or I read the questions orally. Another thing we did for awihle was to have her do the workbooks and she'd show me the work when it was done. I didn't hover. Bad spelling had to be corrected.....in PS the teachers don't hover...so I figured, why was I? I don't feel I need workbooks to let me know of her progress.

 

The reading outloud was a bit more difficult. In needed her to read outloud so I could check the progress....but then we hit upon the idea that she would read to herself...and circle the words she didn't know, then we would talk about them and use them for spelling....

 

I'm a more relaxed homeschooler. I was contolling to much and had to let go for her personality and my sanity.

 

As far as the disrespect, perhaps the combination of punishment and letting her feel she has some control will help. Don't get me wrong, I did punish for disrespect....but felt there was something underlying that we needed to get at. She wasn't being disrespectful for no reason...just something wasn't working and she didn't verbalize it well...or didn't know herself. So once I figured that and added some discipline it seemed to work out okay....until the next thing...parenting is never "all figured out" is it???

 

Hope you hit upon something that works for the both of you!

Edited December 18, 2008 by Maria/ME

[happyWImom]

The piano teacher came, so we had to stop the schoolwork. I did some bible stories & dev. with questions and stuff while they were eating, and it was good for a while, but then the ugly disrespect monster reared it's head again.:ack2: So, ds (who took 30minutes to eat 2 SMALL PIECES OF APPLE!!!) got to do some extra chores, and dd got to-yes, go back to the ETC! And....she was very submissive and respectful this time.:D And... I didn't hover after the 1st page, and she did 5 pages on her own, and read everything back to me very nicely.:party:

I think I will look at how many pages I need her to do, tell her at the beginning how many, and then she can do it by herself, under the condidtion that she reads everything back to me in a respectful way.

 

Thanks ladies!

[Laura Corin]

I used to get that from Hobbes. With him, what worked was to explain (again and again, hugging him tight) that I loved him, that he was a very bright kid but didn't know everything, and that it was my job to teach.

 

After many, many sessions, we have reached the stage where - if he starts saying those things - all I have to say is: '[Hobbes], let me teach.' Then he smiles and listens.

 

Laura

[Danestress]

I would either honor her request to back off while she is working, or I would consider canning the worksheets altogether.

 

It would make me nuts to have someone hovering while I work. I know there are other times she's disrespectful, and this won't solve the entire problem. But I do think that when you have a more difficult child, it helps to try to eliminate as much friction as possible just by making changes that will make that child happier without compromising your own interests and needs. I can't see a reason why you can't let her finish and then check in when she's done, so I would do that. Save your energy for dealing with the times when you really can't or won't concede to her desires.

[JenniferB]

Lots of good ideas above. Here's another option. You can try giving her the right words and tone. I like to say, "Let's try that again...(fill in the blank with kind words & a kind tone)". I come back to this whenever attitudes are unpleasant, or the children are being unpleasant or unkind to each other, and I give them the words they should say. They just repeat after me, and there's no other consequences. It's just practicing good behavior. If they refused to repeat the model, then I would give a consequence.

 

One example of words you could model in the ETC case would be, "I'm sorry Mom, but you are disturbing my concentration. Can I work alone please?" I usually give my children sentences like this even if they can't remember the entire thing. In the statement and question above you would be modeling complete sentences, kind words, a kind tone, and some nice vocabulary words that she might not usually use.

Edited December 18, 2008 by JenniferB

[MrsMe]

Wow, she talks to you like that because she can and there is no real consequence for it. She rules the roost. On another thought she doesn't want you hovering over her. So without her knowledge have her do her workbook and tell her you'll be back in so many minutes to check up. If she's not doing it while you're gone, then the consequence is that you'll sit there until it's finished. Don't yell, just tell her sternly that's it. If she doesn't like it then all the computer work will be done off the computer.

 

You need to tell her. Don't yell. My kid would be in her room rotting. But if you have to send her there than you do. You can go in and check on her and demand an opology. Seems to be other issues here. You need to find out what they are. For some reason she has no respect for you. Best scenario; you need to win, no matter what. You don't need to yell. Tell her the way it is and walk away. Don't engage. She seems to be the one winning. What does Dad say?

 

I think as Moms we tend to pick our battles since we're with the kids all day. My dh finally said that there are no battles to pick. This is the way you want it and this is the way it'll be done. And I have to say, I've gone through this when my dd was 4-5 and it worked. We no longer had problems.

 

No schoolwork, then my kid sat on the couch doing absolutely nothing until we continued; no book, no tv, no game, no music, no nothing. I said, when you're ready, let me know. It worked. What ever you do, do not let her out of her work. That's what she wants. No school work at the end of the day to your liking, no tv, no music, no nothing. Good schoolwork and attitude gets you the rest of the day doing something. If my dd gave me grief all day for school, there wasn't anything but a couch and a book for the rest of the day. Job first, play later. They don't have to love it, but they have to do it.

 

Only speaking from experience.

[joannqn]

Wow, she talks to you like that because she can and there is no real consequence for it. She rules the roost. On another thought she doesn't want you hovering over her. So without her knowledge have her do her workbook and tell her you'll be back in so many minutes to check up. If she's not doing it while you're gone, then the consequence is that you'll sit there until it's finished. Don't yell, just tell her sternly that's it. If she doesn't like it then all the computer work will be done off the computer.

 

You need to tell her. Don't yell. My kid would be in her room rotting. But if you have to send her there than you do. You can go in and check on her and demand an opology. Seems to be other issues here. You need to find out what they are. For some reason she has no respect for you. Best scenario; you need to win, no matter what. You don't need to yell. Tell her the way it is and walk away. Don't engage. She seems to be the one winning. What does Dad say?

 

I think as Moms we tend to pick our battles since we're with the kids all day. My dh finally said that there are no battles to pick. This is the way you want it and this is the way it'll be done. And I have to say, I've gone through this when my dd was 4-5 and it worked. We no longer had problems.

 

No schoolwork, then my kid sat on the couch doing absolutely nothing until we continued; no book, no tv, no game, no music, no nothing. I said, when you're ready, let me know. It worked. What ever you do, do not let her out of her work. That's what she wants. No school work at the end of the day to your liking, no tv, no music, no nothing. Good schoolwork and attitude gets you the rest of the day doing something. If my dd gave me grief all day for school, there wasn't anything but a couch and a book for the rest of the day. Job first, play later. They don't have to love it, but they have to do it.

 

Only speaking from experience.

:iagree:

 

She knows she can get away with it. If she couldn't, it would end quickly.

 

I wouldn't send my kids to their room because their stuff is in there. They would be in the corner with their forehead touching both walls and hands behind their back. Time starts over if they drop the required position. When they were done, they would be back at the table doing their work. (Of course, I do pick curriculum that works for them but I don't tolerate disrepect.) If the attitude came back, they'd find themselves back in the corner AND losing privileges.

 

I learned, back when they were much younger, that when I say something is going to happen, I better follow through every, single time. If there's no follow through, even some of the time, there's no point in bothering to try to persuade the child there's any reason to listen to you as they know they'll get away with it at least some of the time. Maybe this time will be one of those times they'll get away with it. They must never get away with it if it is behavior that you truly want to stop.

 

When disrespect happens, don't engage or argue your point. Just say something along the lines of, "I will not tolerate you speaking to me that way. Change your tone now." If she doesn't change the tone or tries to argue, then she's off to the corner. At another, unrelated time, you can discuss her feelings and the appropriate way to talk to you. Include your expectations and the consequences for not meeting them. Follow through with those consequences every time she doesn't meet the expectations.

Edited December 19, 2008 by joannqn

[lighthouseacademy]

For anything that is distasteful that comes out of thier mouth (whining, complaining, lying) I have them drink 1/2 tsp. of vinegar or lemon juice (my oldest likes lemon juice so we switched to vinegar :)). I tell them that the way they are speaking is yucky to my ears and I don't think I should have to edure it alone. It is fast, and it works.

 

I use vinegar medicinally so that won't work in my house...

[lighthouseacademy]

The piano teacher came, so we had to stop the schoolwork. I did some bible stories & dev. with questions and stuff while they were eating, and it was good for a while, but then the ugly disrespect monster reared it's head again.:ack2: So, ds (who took 30minutes to eat 2 SMALL PIECES OF APPLE!!!) got to do some extra chores, and dd got to-yes, go back to the ETC! And....she was very submissive and respectful this time.:D And... I didn't hover after the 1st page, and she did 5 pages on her own, and read everything back to me very nicely.:party:

I think I will look at how many pages I need her to do, tell her at the beginning how many, and then she can do it by herself, under the condidtion that she reads everything back to me in a respectful way.

 

Thanks ladies!

 

When my son is saying he doesn't need help, if the tone is not right, I model the correct words and tone and then make him repeat it. If necessary I have him practice it 1 time per year of age. I don't like to be hovered over, so I can understand that. I have also had to let go of some of the control of minute things. I realized that my son gets frustrated when he feels the work is beneath him- so if I am dictating a word that I don't know he knows he gets annoyed because it is just busywork then. I still require the proper tone of voice though.

[Maria/ME]

The piano teacher came, so we had to stop the schoolwork. I did some bible stories & dev. with questions and stuff while they were eating, and it was good for a while, but then the ugly disrespect monster reared it's head again.:ack2: So, ds (who took 30minutes to eat 2 SMALL PIECES OF APPLE!!!) got to do some extra chores, and dd got to-yes, go back to the ETC! And....she was very submissive and respectful this time.:D And... I didn't hover after the 1st page, and she did 5 pages on her own, and read everything back to me very nicely.:party:

I think I will look at how many pages I need her to do, tell her at the beginning how many, and then she can do it by herself, under the condidtion that she reads everything back to me in a respectful way.

 

Thanks ladies!

 

 

Hey! Way to go!! Keep up the good work, consistancy is key even when it feels like it's not working!

 

I like Laura's ideas, too! I used to say "How could you put that in a way that seems kinder..." and my dd would re-word. (But I would hear the same thing back "Mom, that didn't sound kind, I feel hurt..." and so I'd have to correct myself...)

 

Laura's other point: My job is to teach. We all have jobs in the household. Mom, Dad, kids... Might not love it, but it's gotta be done. I told my daughter one day "Do you think I truly love every single minute of homeschooling? But this is the life we've chosen for you, for us, for many reasons. If your attitude gets in the way, it makes my job harder to do, but I still have to do it. Just like Dad doesn't always like to go to work, but he does...for us. For the life we have now chosen to live. Do your part."

 

Keep us up to date with how it's going!