Has Anyone Here Tried fresh/raw/alternative Cat Food?

[Ginevra]

Either that you made yourself or that is made by a company like Smalls? 
 

My Luna girl is coming up on 13 yo. Her health is not bad but her potassium is elevated. Her brother died at 7yo of kidney disease, however, she does not have any other bad markers in her blood work. Was thinking of switching to food with a better nutritional profile. 
 

Advice appreciated. 

[Terabith]

This sounds like a post for @Spy Car!  
 

I honestly don’t know much about it, but I know raw cat food is trickier than dog food because of taurine needs. 

[Clarita]

I have never fed my cats raw, because it was so expensive. Doing it myself well the taurine is a problem. I think in nature they get that because they would be eating all the rodent (aka all the internal organs too). I guess it is doable you can get the internal organs of chicken and cow. 

I just ended up giving my cats high-end canned foods. Still canned for convenience, but human grade meats and only meats and liquid recipes. They most definitely don't need anything other than meat so avoid grains/veggies (all those are fillers for cats).   

[skimomma]

I switched our cats to raw food about 10 years ago.  We have used different brands over the years and I even attempted to make it myself at one point (with taurine additive).  We are currently using Darwin and have been happy with it.  We switched when one of our cats was about 10yo and having a collection of health problems including crystals that the vet told us would mean a lifetime of prescription food.  One look at the ingredients list of that stuff had me very concerned.  Lots of fillers and grains.  Up until then, we were feeding the cats a mix of high quality grain-free dry and canned foods.  When we had to switch to the prescription food (which both cats ended up eating because I could not find a good way to feed them different foods) other health problems cropped up.  There is no way to know if those health problems were diet-related or just a coincidence but there were other things that had me concerned.  Both cats had flaking skin, oily coats, and dull eyes.  I did a bunch of research and learned that a raw diet might also keep the crystals at bay without the junky food.  My vet was not supportive, but we tried it anyway.  The crystals never came back, the eyes brightened up again within weeks, and their coats also no longer were oily or flakey.  The cat who had the crystals is now 20yo.  The other cat we had at the time lived to age 22.  And we now have a 3yo that has been eating raw since she weaned.  The 20yo and 3yo have silky soft coats and no health problems.  You would never guess how old the 20yo is.  I would not even believe it except we have had her the whole time.  The formerly unsupportive vet begrudgingly admitted that the food switch was a good choice.  It does cost more than dry/canned food but the amount we have saved in vet bills more than makes up for it.  Knowing what I know now, I would never ever feed cats dry food again.  Not even the fancy stuff.  

[Clarita]

11 minutes ago, skimomma said:

When we had to switch to the prescription food (which both cats ended up eating because I could not find a good way to feed them different foods) other health problems cropped up.

Oh no! We were just told to start the prescription food. It was only for a "hint of crystals" and now I'm hearing from the nurse "lifetime"... I didn't look at ingredients because I thought it was short term.

[Hen]

we didn't use raw,  but switched to  "Just food for cats" ( the company is "Just food for dogs") and it is frozen. we would cut it in half and defrost 1/2 to use for several days for 1 cat. Our cat was 17 and had kidney disease and was throwing up anything else we fed him, this seemed to sit right with him. 

 

[Spy Car]

4 hours ago, Terabith said:

This sounds like a post for @Spy Car!  
 

I honestly don’t know much about it, but I know raw cat food is trickier than dog food because of taurine needs. 

I've been feeding Desmond (our cat) a DIY raw diet since we adopted him (about 17 months ago). He'd been run over (cushed) by a car as a kitten and his rear leg was badly broken. An amazing rescue got him the veterinary care he needed (major surgery) and they put him in one of those external stabilizer contraptions (exo-skeleton) and then went to a loving foster home. He was just out of the contraption when we adopted him.

He was so weak. His hindquarters were completely atrophied and he had a significant limp. But was so sweet. We accepted that it was very likely that he would always have physical challenges.

For his first meal at our house, knowing the reputation that cats are "finicky" eaters, I made a platter of dining options. Raw chicken, raw pork, cooked chicken, cooked pork, and the tinned "wet" food he'd been getting (Royal Canin). He ate them in that order. Clearly preferring the raw and willing to eat the tinned food, but it was the last choice. Raw ever since.

Over time he got stronger and stronger. Originally he could leap to a bed height. Then table height. And now he can easily leap counter height (and more). Over the same time frame the limp progressively lessened. Today, I'd never know that he'd been through that sort of trauma. The limp is gone.

Do I know that the highly nutritious food made the difference? I suppose I can't prove it, but in my heart I'm pretty convinced. His coat gleams, his eyes are clear, and his teeth are pearly white (with no signs of tartar or puffy gums). And he's strong, muscular, and lean.

I've fed our dog Chester a PMR (prey model raw diet for 9 years). He is also in fantastic condition. Our vet--who has breed knowledge of Vizslas (and who actually owned Chester's grand-sire) was pretty astounded how lean and muscular he remains and that his teeth are prefect. While not a "raw enthusiast," the vet said "whatever you are doing, keep it up." She knows very well what I'm doing

As to taurine, it is a consideration that needs to be accounted for when feeding cats, as--unlike dogs and humans--felines can't synthesize taurine from other proteins/amino acids. So it is an "essential" nutrient that they must get from food (or supplementation). Many (most) people who feed cats a raw diet and commercial raw manufacturers include synthetic taurine powder to make sure that cats get enough taurine.

I've taken a different route. Feeding Chinese-sourced synthetic supplements gives me pause (and almost all taurine powder is from China, although there is supposedly a Japanese source). Instead, I read the findings of the National Research Council, which is the recognised authority on animal nutrition, and feed high-taurine proteins that more than meet (well exceed) the daily taurine requirements established by the NRC.

This includes making taurine-rich dark meat turkey the mainstay of Desmond's diet, along with other relatively good taurine sources like heart (chicken and beef), dark meat chicken, and a variety of taurine rich organs. Plus some taurine-rich seafood items (that I serve cooked), like mussels, scallops, and fish.

Unlike commercial raw, which can get pretty pricey, feeding human quality raw food is pretty inexpensive--so long as one doesn't factor in one's labour costs, as I put in some "work."

Also different than dogs, cats should get less bone. PMR rations for dogs are 10% bone, and many people go higher than that. Cats should ideally get 6% bone. Unfortunately many of the commercial raw producers are at least 10% bone and some are significantly higher (and some won't say). Too much bone is potentially constipating (in addition to other issues).

Also, commercial raw products all grind the bone. Instead, I feed appropriate soft edible bone with meat on it that Desmond has to gnaw, tear, chew, and chop. I;'m convinced this keeps cats teeth, gums, and jaw muscles strong and healthy. The vast majority of dogs have periodontal disease by the time they are 3. My understanding is that things are even more dire with cats, with extractions and re-absorptions being utterly common.

On top of all the other benefits, you should see Desmond's enthusiasm at meal time. He's like a dog that way. Goes to town until he's destroyed everything. Never once left anything unconsumed. It makes me happy to see how much he (and Chester) enjoy their food and how vital they both are as a result of eating well.

Feeding loved ones well is my "love language." Doing PRM works for me.

I had never had a cat before (as my parents were allergic) and I wanted my home to be a safe-harbor, especially if they required care in my home, which was the case in my mom's final year of life. Got to say, I sure have bonded with Desmond. He seems to think I'm okay as well. LOL. Such a sweetheart. 

Bill

Edited March 27, 2023 by Spy Car

[Spy Car]

@Quill I have been trying to educate myself on feline health matters since adding Desmond to the family.

I'm not sure if your vet thinks you cat is showing beginning stages of CKD (chronic kidney disease) or not, but I know that "Tanya's Comprehensive Guide to Feline Chronic Kidney Disease" is a popular resource for people who are dealing with CKD and pre-CKD pets. 

https://www.felinecrf.org/

My understanding, and certainly no claims of expertise here, is that the "old thinking" was to reduce protein levels immediately when a cat appeared to be pre-CKD. I believe that has changed around entirely.

Anecdotally, I am aware that some people shift part of their cats diets to eggs to lower phosphorus and there are also phosphorus binders that can be given to cats. 

I wish I had more knowledge on that front. There have been some lower-phosphorus canned "wet" food come to market fairly recently that are non-prescription and not high carb.

Bill

 

[KSera]

16 minutes ago, Spy Car said:

I wish I had more knowledge on that front. There have been some lower-phosphorus canned "wet" food come to market fairly recently that are non-prescription and not high carb.

 

There are charts available online that show the phosphorus content of various commercial foods. I wouldn’t personally feed any cat dry cat food, but particularly not one with any kind of kidney or urinary issues. Low phosphorus, no fish, grain free wet food is a good entry point that doesn’t require a lot of fuss. We feed wet foods that are pretty much just chicken and added taurine and minerals. 

[Spy Car]

2 minutes ago, KSera said:

There are charts available online that show the phosphorus content of various commercial foods. I wouldn’t personally feed any cat dry cat food, but particularly not one with any kind of kidney or urinary issues. Low phosphorus, no fish, grain free wet food is a good entry point that doesn’t require a lot of fuss. We feed wet foods that are pretty much just chicken and added taurine and minerals. 

Feeding dry food seems like it is at the root of almost every one of the multitude of serious and widespread illnesses that affect cats. Dry food is dehydrating, and very few cats will drink enough water to compensate (being a desert species with a low-thirst drive). The chronic dehydration and excessive carbohydrates are not a good combo.

Seems like any wet food is far preferable to feeding dry.

Bill

[Spy Car]

This is a link to one of the low phosphorus (non-prescription) canned "wet" cat food lines from Weruva.

https://weruva.com/wx/

These seem like they lower phosphorus, for cats who need that, w/o substituting out copious amounts of animal protein for carbohydrates the way most "prescription" brands seem to.

Bill

Edited March 27, 2023 by Spy Car

[Guest]

Thanks, @Spy Car, for all that great information, and everyone else who contributed info. Here’s one thing I don’t know: when do you feed a cat if you’re feeding raw/fresh foods? Do you feed them twice per day? 
 

I agree about dry food not being optimal. I feel certain that is why my ThorBear died of kidney failure. He only drank water from his paw. I thought it was so comedic; I didn’t realize this is really bad for their hydration. 

[Spy Car]

4 minutes ago, Quill said:

Thanks, @Spy Car, for all that great information, and everyone else who contributed info. Here’s one thing I don’t know: when do you feed a cat if you’re feeding raw/fresh foods? Do you feed them twice per day? 
 

I agree about dry food not being optimal. I feel certain that is why my ThorBear died of kidney failure. He only drank water from his paw. I thought it was so comedic; I didn’t realize this is really bad for their hydration. 

I typically feed twice a day, sometimes three times a day. I've heard arguments for more frequent (but smaller) meals being preferable, and arguments that two meals (spaced out) is fine once they are adults. 

There is a simple test to see if a cat is adequately hydrated. Pull (gently) on the scruff of their neck. If the skin snaps back swiftly when it is released, all is well. If that occurs more slowly (doesn't "snap") that is a sign of dehydration. Sorry about ThorBear. People purchase pet food in good faith, expecting it will be healthful. No one wants to cause harm to beloved pets.

I really think very few people are aware of how serious chronic dehydration is for cats. As a species that evolved to get moisture from eating prey. There are exceptions, but most cats simply will not drink enough water to make up for the dehydrating effects of dry food.

Bill

[Spy Car]

@Quill Adding a bit more info.

With raw feeding there are (more or less) 3 ways to do it:

1) Commercial raw. Everything is pre-made, ready to go. Usually frozen, but are also freeze-dried options. Convenient,  but expensive (I think). May have a higher bone percentage than I consider optimal. I have no first hand experience using any of these products.

2) PMR. Total DIY. Feeding "meat," organs, and edible bone in correct ratios (in as "whole" a fashion as possible) to mimic prey. This is what I do. But I'm in a lonely minority. I know many PRM dog people, not so much with cats. Takes some effort and basic nutritional knowledge. Very economical (not including one's own labor).

There is a third option that is semi-DIY and fairly popular, and (I think) is moderately economical, where people provide some of the fresh food, such as "meat" or meat and organs, and then use a packaged pre-mixes that complete the nutritional balance. Are you with me?

3) Pre-mixes. Various companies have different ways to complete a diet of (mostly) fresh food. Here are a few:

Alnutrin. Alnutrin has two formulas. One is "Alnutrin with Calcium." It is designed to be used to complete owner-supplied chicken and chicken liver. It has taurine, vitamins, and minerals (including calcium). http://www.knowwhatyoufeed.com/alnutrin_supplements.html

Food Fur Life. Their "EZComplete" has dried chicken liver and other organs included, plus taurine, vitamins, and minerals (including calcium), so owner just supplies meat. Does contain New Zealand Green-Lipped Mussel Powder, which is good nutritionally, but I've read of occasional allergy issues with mussels. https://www.foodfurlife.com/ezcomplete-fur-cats-premix-information.html#/

TCfeline. As with the Alnutrin above, owner supplies meat (this company encourages diversity of species)n and liver. The mix includes  taurine, vitamins, and minerals (including calcium). https://tcfeline.com/tcfeline-premix/

I have no first hand experience with any of these pre-mixes, but their use is pretty popular with people who wish to raw feed, but can't deal with PMR and get balky with the cost of commercial raw.

The only issue with pre-mixes is whether to chop or to grind the owner added meat. It has no bone, so doesn't take specialized (read very expensive) grinders and some butchers will grind fresh meat or meat and organs for customers. I'd "chop" myself, in as large a chop as possible (that a cat will eat), but--I'd likely be in a small minority on this point as well.

Anyway, I hope this helps. 

Bill

 

Edited March 28, 2023 by Spy Car

[skimomma]

I do use the commercial raw food and it is expensive.  Ours is delivered monthly.  It is about $2 per day per adult cat.  We do two meals a day (plus snacks for kittens).  I use insulated automatic feeders so that we do not have to be home at meal time and to make it far easier to have a cat sitter when we travel.  I load them once daily and they go off at 7am and 7pm each day.  Like Spy Car, my cats start waiting at the feeders about 30 minutes before they are to go off and they attack the food until it is all gone.  My 20yo cat was overweight before we switched foods when she was 10yo.  She quickly settled at a healthy weight and both cats have maintained proper weight the whole time.

[BeachGal]

This is great info. I am going to print out all these suggestions for my son who has three cats. He feeds them frozen, raw Primal for now but has been thinking of making his own.

[gardenmom5]

21 hours ago, skimomma said:

I switched our cats to raw food about 10 years ago.  We have used different brands over the years and I even attempted to make it myself at one point (with taurine additive).  We are currently using Darwin and have been happy with it.  We switched when one of our cats was about 10yo and having a collection of health problems including crystals that the vet told us would mean a lifetime of prescription food.  One look at the ingredients list of that stuff had me very concerned.  Lots of fillers and grains.  Up until then, we were feeding the cats a mix of high quality grain-free dry and canned foods.  When we had to switch to the prescription food (which both cats ended up eating because I could not find a good way to feed them different foods) other health problems cropped up.  There is no way to know if those health problems were diet-related or just a coincidence but there were other things that had me concerned.  Both cats had flaking skin, oily coats, and dull eyes.  I did a bunch of research and learned that a raw diet might also keep the crystals at bay without the junky food.  My vet was not supportive, but we tried it anyway.  The crystals never came back, the eyes brightened up again within weeks, and their coats also no longer were oily or flakey.  The cat who had the crystals is now 20yo.  The other cat we had at the time lived to age 22.  And we now have a 3yo that has been eating raw since she weaned.  The 20yo and 3yo have silky soft coats and no health problems.  You would never guess how old the 20yo is.  I would not even believe it except we have had her the whole time.  The formerly unsupportive vet begrudgingly admitted that the food switch was a good choice.  It does cost more than dry/canned food but the amount we have saved in vet bills more than makes up for it.  Knowing what I know now, I would never ever feed cats dry food again.  Not even the fancy stuff.  

cat had severe crystals when he was barely over a year - "must have prescription food".   no, I don't think so. 

I only did the prescription for a short period.  he would NOT eat it, and I was seriously unimpressed with it.  partly for reasons you stated.  

in hindsight - I really think he was poisoned by the prescription parasite/flea-tick meds they gave him.  (a tech said she puts her cats in the cone of shame when she puts the drops on the back of their necks until the drops are completely dry.  I'm too nervous to try again.)

dh keeps wanting to do cat food himself as he complains about how much canned food costs.  I will periodically add a bit of water to the wet food as he will not drink (just to be sure he pees).  he also gets some grain free kibble.  (not much - it's more for when he refuses to eat the wet stuff I give him.)

not doing the internal parasite/flea-tick meds has done wonders for his health . . . . now . . . gotta brush him again (he growls)