Relationship question (not JAWM)

[happi duck]

At least in the states, there are so many traditions and lack of traditions surrounding deaths.  When some friends attended the funerals for my sisters I was truly shocked.  Never expected it at all.

I would just presume it's not her way.  Feel free to say something if you really need/want to, imo.

I don't think the friend screwed up.  There are so many possible reasons she didn't meet your expectations but how can everyone meet everyone's expectations?  Especially when there really isn't a norm?

As mentioned by others: "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you" can mean that someone is giving space because that's what they would want.

 

 

[Corraleno]

2 minutes ago, happi duck said:

I don't think the friend screwed up.  There are so many possible reasons she didn't meet your expectations but how can everyone meet everyone's expectations?  Especially when there really isn't a norm?

This. I've been surprised by some of the responses, which seem to presume that there is one acceptable way to respond in this situation, and someone who does not respond that way messed up, behaved hurtfully, etc. Even suggestions to give the friend some grace tend towards well maybe she had a really good excuse for behaving badly.

"My friend deprived me of the support that she owed me by virtue of our friendship, so she screwed up and she's obviously not a very good friend" is one way to frame this. Another would be "I did not get what I wanted from my friend, and I'm sad that she didn't respond in the way that I preferred."

Most people aren't mind readers, and people shouldn't assume that their preferred way of dealing with things is a default shared by everyone else. I don't think it's fair to be upset with someone for not providing something that was never asked for. And I think that's actually at the heart of many many relationship problems — one person is thinking "if you really cared about me, you'd know that I expect XYZ from you" and the other person is thinking "if you really cared about me, you'd tell me you expect XYZ from me."

[catz]

I totally agree people aren’t mind readers and that assumptions and expectations are often more about you than someone else.   I can rarely attend a funeral.  Like a friends parent, there is very little chance we could make it work during this season of life.

But no card, note, text, email, phone message?   I do find radio silence odd if this is someone you are mixing in person with on a regular basis and share other highs and lows with.   And I don’t blame OP for feeling hurt if that was the case.  
 

 

[Pam in CT]

re it is not fair, nor good friendship (or marriage partner) to demand mind reading

43 minutes ago, Corraleno said:

This. I've been surprised by some of the responses, which seem to presume that there is one acceptable way to respond in this situation, and someone who does not respond that way messed up, behaved hurtfully, etc. Even suggestions to give the friend some grace tend towards well maybe she had a really good excuse for behaving badly.

"My friend deprived me of the support that she owed me by virtue of our friendship, so she screwed up and she's obviously not a very good friend" is one way to frame this. Another would be "I did not get what I wanted from my friend, and I'm sad that she didn't respond in the way that I preferred."

Most people aren't mind readers, and people shouldn't assume that their preferred way of dealing with things is a default shared by everyone else. I don't think it's fair to be upset with someone for not providing something that was never asked for. And I think that's actually at the heart of many many relationship problems — one person is thinking "if you really cared about me, you'd know that I expect XYZ from you" and the other person is thinking "if you really cared about me, you'd tell me you expect XYZ from me."

I agree 100% with the bolded.

It is not fair to expect a good friend / close family member / spouse to divine what I need.

OTOH it *is* fair to expect a good friend / close family member / spouse to listen to me when I say -- hard conversation -- I need this, and I am not getting it from you in this time of need, and that is leaving me hurt / baffled / resentful.

And the conversation then goes where it goes.

A strong relationship can navigate and withstand a hard conversation. A strong relationship can withstand a person in obvious grief / illness / other specific and temporal need to say "I need you to act in { _____ concrete way} right now" even if that is not the recipient's go-to MO. A strong and mostly-reciprocal relationship can weather a rough spot where one person tzim-tzums a little bit for a little while to accommodate and support the other person through a time of need. 

 

And not all relationships turn out to be as strong as we hope before we fall on hard times. That is also true.

[DawnM]

4 hours ago, Carol in Cal. said:

I’m a ‘go to the visitation and funeral and stay for everything’ person but not a ‘card’ person.

I don’t even send Christmas cards regularly.

In my tradition, there is a LOT to funerals.

First visitation at the funeral parlor the night before.

Then a church service in the church with the casket up front.  There is usually viewing there as well, before the service, back in the narthex, so you actually walk by the open casket as you go into church.  That is hard.  Then right before the church service starts the family gathers at the casket and it is closed and brought forward into the church and left in front.  The doors to the church are closed behind it and not opened again until the service is done; the only time that ever happens except at weddings.

The service is lengthy and usually no one speaks except the pastor.

Then there is a coffee and cake reception in the church hall for everyone.  If there are pictures or speeches, this is where they would happen.

Then the casket is driven in a hearse out to the cemetery for committal.  There is another service there, called a graveside ceremony. The funeral procession of cars can run red lights on the way, assisted by police.

Then there is the real reception, at the deceased’s house or the house of a close relative.  Sometimes everyone is invited, and sometimes people circulate and tap those who are invited personally.  

So to me being one who takes a day off from work to do all that is a big commitment.  I don’t think failing to send a card takes away from that, but maybe it does.  It’s pretty common for attendance to drop ceremony by ceremony, so going the distance to the end is notable and nice.

Gracious, that wasn't this at all.  It was a memorial, 2 months after he passed.   And then a reception.  There was NO crying, it was just me telling stories about my dad and singing a song in 3 languages (representing the 3 countries he lived in most, including the US) and honoring his legacy.

No viewing, no body, no "funeral", and no graveside.

[DawnM]

4 hours ago, Grace Hopper said:

 

I hope you are finding time to breathe these days, you have been going ninety-to-nothing with huge life stuff for a long time. 

Thank you, it has been a journey for sure.

 

[Jean in Newcastle]

I have not gone to a single memorial service for friend’s parents who were not also my friends nor did I expect them to come when my parents passed away. I have sent cards and condolences but it wouldn’t occur to me to go if I didn’t know the person who passed away. Perhaps that’s a cultural thing?  (I have gone to the service for a spouse or child - which might not make sense but in my greater cultural experience the service for the older generation is more limited to direct friends and family). ETA- it’s also true that I know the spouses and children of my friends while I don’t usually know their parents.). 

Edited March 24, 2023 by Jean in Newcastle

[DawnM]

Thanks all.   I still haven't decided if I will bring it up or not but it helps to get another perspective or two.

I won't address all the comments because in doing so it would probably give too much personal info away, but thank you.

[footballmom]

Thinking of you, Dawn. Grief is a really hard and tricky thing to go through.  I’m sorry your friend didn’t show up in a way that felt supportive or thoughtful to you. 
 

When my FIL passed, I had people show up in the most amazing ways that were loving and supportive. I had others that couldn’t show up in any kind of way.  Sadness / hard circumstances really bring out a whole spectrum of behavior. 
 

I would probably reflect more holistically on if she’s been there for you with other hard things / as your dad declined in health. Based on my feelings about that, I would decide if I needed to pull back on what I was putting into the relationship or if maybe I was the one investing more all along. If she has been flaking out and you feel like you have the right opening, maybe it’s more of “Is everything okay with you? I feel like you haven’t quite been yourself lately” and it could lead to talking about what your experience has been.