Mr Buddy heater?

[Mom_to3]

So I am resigning myself that we will spend a couple of days in a power outage in frigid temperatures, trying to keep pipes in different parts of the house from freezing. We do have a Mr buddy heater I bought with some propane last year. Has anybody else used them for power outages? Supposedly safe indoors. I thought I'd start a thread, since it looks like many of us will be in a similar situation....

[prairiewindmomma]

If you are using the little bottles, it is (relatively) safe, but if you have it hooked up to a big 5 gallon tank, the tank should be kept outdoors on a long hose. Either way, keep working CO2 monitors close by.
 

We have the stuff to refill the bottles from the big tank.

 

[prairiewindmomma]

I forgot the other bit—if you are using a hose to a larger tank it either needs to be the designated Mr Buddy hose or your hose needs to have a filter. 

[wathe]

In Canada they are outdoor-use only (the very same item marketed as safe for indoor-use in the US, excepting, it would seem, in Massachusetts).

Using an unvented, propane-fueled combustion device indoors seems like a bad idea.  It will emit carbon monoxide, and other products of combustion.  I can't see how burning propane indoors could possibly be a good idea.   Maybe I am missing something?

 

[maize]

1 hour ago, wathe said:

In Canada they are outdoor-use only (the very same item marketed as safe for indoor-use in the US, excepting, it would seem, in Massachusetts).

Using an unvented, propane-fueled combustion device indoors seems like a bad idea.  It will emit carbon monoxide, and other products of combustion.  I can't see how burning propane indoors could possibly be a good idea.   Maybe I am missing something?

 

Indoor propane or kerosene heaters are the way millions of people around the world heat their homes. When I lived in Japan we used a kerosene heater for our apartment, and so did everyone else I knew. We were taught to keep a window cracked for ventilation. Indoor fuel-burning heaters are generally safe as long as the oxygen concentration in the air in high--this is the primary purpose of ventilation. In the presence of normal oxygen concentration, carbon dioxide is the primary combustion byproduct. Carbon monoxide levels start to rise when oxygen is depleted. Make sure there is a steady supply of fresh oxygenated air and these heaters are generally safe.

Certainly safer than freezing to death.

 

 

 

[Miss Tick]

Mr Buddy! We're on our second one. We've used him for 20 years, although the last 12 we've been in a house with more secure power supply. For some reason we are slightly more likely to lose power when dh is on business travel to somewhere warm. When I lose power I huddle up in a room with all the blankets, Mr Buddy, and my Carbon monoxide detector. I've never had the CO detector alert (I'm not counting the unrelated pot roast in the oven incident). I usually run it for a bit in the evening to warm things up and then again later if I wake up cold. Usually during the day I have places to go that are warm or cooking to do, so I don't need him all day either.

Edited December 22, 2022 by Miss Tick

[skimomma]

1 hour ago, Miss Tick said:

For some reason we are slightly more likely to lose power when dh is on business travel to somewhere warm. 

Funny how that works, eh?  Every winter calamity I have ever had has happened when dh is in California or some other annoyingly warm place. Sigh.

We use Mr. Buddy in our camper.  We have a carbon monoxide detector and have never had it go off.  I still don't like it but would not hesitate to use it if we lost power.  Unfortunately ours is currently sitting in our camper, in storage, off site, and buried under feet of snow so......not helpful for us this time.

[Miss Tick]

29 minutes ago, skimomma said:

Funny how that works, eh?  Every winter calamity I have ever had has happened when dh is in California or some other annoyingly warm place. Sigh.

😄 Nice to be understood

 

30 minutes ago, skimomma said:

Unfortunately ours is currently sitting in our camper, in storage, off site, and buried under feet of snow so......not helpful for us this time

☹️

I didn't want any emoji response to be misinterpreted. Stay warm!

[wathe]

2 hours ago, maize said:

Indoor propane or kerosene heaters are the way millions of people around the world heat their homes. When I lived in Japan we used a kerosene heater for our apartment, and so did everyone else I knew. We were taught to keep a window cracked for ventilation. Indoor fuel-burning heaters are generally safe as long as the oxygen concentration in the air in high--this is the primary purpose of ventilation. In the presence of normal oxygen concentration, carbon dioxide is the primary combustion byproduct. Carbon monoxide levels start to rise when oxygen is depleted. Make sure there is a steady supply of fresh oxygenated air and these heaters are generally safe.

Certainly safer than freezing to death.

 

 

 

Fair points.  

I imagine that there is a reason why they aren't approved for indoor use in Canada, though.

I think I'm particularly sensitive to CO poisoning risk - we get multiple cases per year through our ED.  I've personally transferred 2 to tertiary care for hyperbaric within the past year.  On the other hand, I have seen zero indoor hypothermia cases in my entire career (outdoor hypothermia is a different story, of course). 

The topic has piqued my interest.  I had a look through the manuals: never run for more than 4 hours, never run while sleeping, always ensure ventilation/crack a window, always use a CO monitor, ensure device is properly inspected and maintained - it feels like there is a lot of room for user error.

I just can't get past the idea of a combustion appliance that exhausts into the house! 

[wathe]

I'll add a PSA:  CO detectors expire.  Most of them last about 10 years, though some fewer.

 I think that if anyone were  considering an indoor propane heater, it would be wise to make sure that one's CO detector is in good working order and not stale-dated.

[MEmama]

10 minutes ago, wathe said:

Fair points.  

I imagine that there is a reason why they aren't approved for indoor use in Canada, though.

I think I'm particularly sensitive to CO poisoning risk - we get multiple cases per year through our ED.  I've personally transferred 2 to tertiary care for hyperbaric within the past year.  On the other hand, I have seen zero indoor hypothermia cases in my entire career (outdoor hypothermia is a different story, of course). 

The topic has piqued my interest.  I had a look through the manuals: never run for more than 4 hours, never run while sleeping, always ensure ventilation/crack a window, always use a CO monitor, ensure device is properly inspected and maintained - it feels like there is a lot of room for user error.

I just can't get past the idea of a combustion appliance that exhausts into the house! 

Interesting. Propane and kerosene heaters as backup were really common among people we knew in New Brunswick. Everyone relied on electric heat and/or wood stoves in our area so kerosene was a cheap and simple secondary source for heat security. All the old timers reminisced about the unique smell, lol. That's where I first heard of using them indoors (we have one to prevent the tangled web of water pipes for our radiator system in the basement from freezing—thankfully we haven’t needed it yet but I am grateful for the option should it be necessary).

Edited December 22, 2022 by MEmama

[TravelingChris]

2 hours ago, Miss Tick said:

Mr Buddy! We're on our second one. We've used him for 20 years, although the last 12 we've been in a house with more secure power supply. For some reason we are slightly more likely to lose power when dh is on business travel to somewhere warm. When I lose power I huddle up in a room with all the blankets, Mr Buddy, and my Carbon monoxide detector. I've never had the CO detector alert (I'm not counting the unrelated pot roast in the oven incident). I usually run it for a bit in the evening to warm things up and then again later if I wake up cold. Usually during the day I have places to go that are warm or cooking to do, so I don't need him all day either.

Yep, yep, yep.  And also to have gigantic snowfalls when he was gone.  

[prairiewindmomma]

Here, if you read the studies on hypothermia deaths, about 25% of them are from indoors, nearly all of them in single family homes, and over the age of 60 or medically compromised. This is from the Texas 2021 cold spell: https://www.wfaa.com/article/features/originals/the-ones-we-lost-at-least-22-people-in-dallas-county-alone-lost-their-lives-to-the-february-2021-winter-storm/287-a8654006-deb6-434b-8751-b60cb9eaf55e

[wathe]

13 minutes ago, MEmama said:

Interesting. Propane and kerosene heaters as backup were really common among people we knew in New Brunswick. Everyone relied on electric heat and/or wood stoves in our area so kerosene was a cheap and simple secondary source for heat security. All the old timers reminisced about the unique smell, lol. That's where I first heard of using them indoors (we have one to prevent the tangled web of water pipes for our radiator system in the basement from freezing—thankfully we haven’t needed it yet but I am grateful for the option should it be necessary).

Not approved doesn't mean people don't do it anyway...... hence all the CO cases!  Old-timers in ice-fishing huts with propane or kero heaters are a common story.

[wathe]

11 minutes ago, prairiewindmomma said:

Here, if you read the studies on hypothermia deaths, about 25% of them are from indoors, nearly all of them in single family homes, and over the age of 60 or medically compromised. This is from the Texas 2021 cold spell: https://www.wfaa.com/article/features/originals/the-ones-we-lost-at-least-22-people-in-dallas-county-alone-lost-their-lives-to-the-february-2021-winter-storm/287-a8654006-deb6-434b-8751-b60cb9eaf55e

That's not a pattern I've seen here (anecdotally).   

I imagine that having cold-climate infrastructure would be protective (yes, it is protective, apparently).

And also, I am aware of the selection bias for what I see - I only see cases that are potentially resuscitatable.  Cases that are beyond resus never come to me; they go straight to the morgue.  I realize that what I see in the ED does not necessarily reflect overall mortality stats.  Same would be true of CO poisoning cases too, though.  

Canada has something like 50 (non-intentional, non-fire related) to  300 CO poisoning deaths per year.  Hypothermia total deaths something like 80 per year.  I couldn't find any good stats on what proportion of those are indoor (I suspect small).  Sadly, homelessness is the biggest risk factor for death by exposure.

 

[prairiewindmomma]

I suspect some of the smaller death numbers are not only from better designed homes, but from cultural knowledge about how to stay warm and access to proper clothing.

When we lived in south Texas, most of our friends did not own proper coats. Only those that traveled out of state did. Students were kept indoors for recess if temperature dropped below 60F/15c. Some people wore blankets (I kid you not) if they had to go out and about. 

[wathe]

OP, sorry I've taken your thread on such a tangent.

I hope you stay safe and warm.