What do I say?

[Laura Corin]

As someone who works in a university,  I see student services struggling to deal with the volumes of expressed mental health needs. I sometimes signpost students to services, so have been briefed on some of the issues. A  big one seems to be the conflation of situational and major mental health issues - 'I'm anxious' about a course or a deadline becomes 'I have anxiety' which needs fixing or accommodating. 

I'm very glad that university is now more accessible to people with mental illness or disability. I do think that there has been a shift away from ordinary coping though.

[Not_a_Number]

22 hours ago, LucyStoner said:

 Let’s not forget that manipulative and abusive people can throw around therapeutic lingo just as much as anyone else and they are often much more conversant in it because they want to make it seem like they are the injured party.  

 

1 hour ago, Laura Corin said:

I'm very glad that university is now more accessible to people with mental illness or disability. I do think that there has been a shift away from ordinary coping though.

These two quotes aren't about the same thing, but they have something in common. Something that people don't tend to grapple with is that whatever tools you provide, some people will use those tools in a way that's ultimately unhelpful and self-defeating. 

My 20-year-old sister has been in therapy since her parents' (vicious, drawn-out) divorce when she was in middle school. I'm really glad people are more open about getting therapy nowadays. I'm glad there's no stigma. But I haven't actually been impressed with what she gets out of therapy -- for example, most recently, her therapist has talked her out of being worried about her own issues with regards to her most recent relationship. She has really serious attachment issues and SHOULD worry about it and work on herself! But what she wanted was to be soothed, and that's what she got. 

Ultimately, people will do well if they get centered and comfortable with their needs, whether they do it with therapy or without therapy, whether they do it while talking to their parents or while not talking to their parents. And they'll keep struggling if they can't get to that place and keep counting on controlling other people's behavior to make them happy. There are no shortcuts. 

Edited November 12, 2022 by Not_a_Number

[Melissa Louise]

1 hour ago, Not_a_Number said:

There are no shortcuts. 

Yep. Life is complicated, the only person we have control over (and even then, it's partial) is our self, and there is absolutely no short cut.

And this applies to every human living, not just to humans of a particular age or relationship or role.

It's hard for the OP, and likely for the OP's daughter, and both of them probably deserve some grace from the other. Maturity (experience + perspective) means the OP is likely in a better place to extend it than the dd is, but hopefully with care, that will change over time.

In the meantime, all the OP can do is feel what she feels, acknowledge it, and thoughtfully choose a response to the dd. Simple, and hard all at once.

 

 

 

[KSera]

2 hours ago, Laura Corin said:

A  big one seems to be the conflation of situational and major mental health issues - 'I'm anxious' about a course or a deadline becomes 'I have anxiety' which needs fixing or accommodating. 

I'm very glad that university is now more accessible to people with mental illness or disability. I do think that there has been a shift away from ordinary coping though.

 I have some concern about the above as well, as I do think there can be a self fulfilling prophecy for some people. Especially with  anxiety which is a feeling which easily begets more of the same (very unpleasant) feeling, which leads to fear of that feeling, which leads to greater anxiety and more of that feeling, etc. A similar thing can happen with depression when someone feels depressed and then has a, "oh no, I'm depressed. Crap, I'm mentally ill" response to it. It's super hard to figure out just how do we best walk the line where people can recognize and acknowledge mental health issues and get help for those issues without any stigma while also not leading everyone to think that any negative feelings they feel are unhealthy and something to be feared. I think I have this problem as a parent--I hate to know any of my kids are having a rough time emotionally and feel desperate to make it better for them. Maybe our kids get it in part from us and our own intolerance of their distress? I don't know, just thinking out loud.

[katilac]

 

On 11/11/2022 at 3:20 AM, BronzeTurtle said:

I don't think I ever said anything about parents cutting off contact and kids looking elsewhere for support or people offering support for kids who've been abandoned or kicked out or emancipated, so your entire post is confusing to me. 

But to answer this question as it is posed, in terms of online communities, the tiktok set isn't going to replace anyone's mother even if she has left. It is a delusion a kid would indulge in because chatting and texting can create strong emotions and things that feel really good or really bad. Imagine being 15 and complaining to someone online who is 23 and really *gets* you and how unreasonably strict and fundie your parents are. Whole groups of people like that affirming your every thought as a teen over and over again with dopamine that comes with posting to the internet. If only it was the rosy picture you're talking about where people are just being nice.

Friendships and relationships *can* develop through the internet. However, a healthy relationship of an older person to a minor child via the internet without the knowledge of the parent/guardian (present or not) with the intent to enfold them into some kind of parent relationship is...I can't even think of a scenario where it would be appropriate, honestly. If a minor child has been abandoned by their parents or kicked out then the appropriate authorities need to be involved, not an online group of older people (or older person who is not a minor! creepy!) that may or may not have any idea what's actually going on in a kid's real life on the other side of the screen. If someone is over the age of 20, talking to minors online to develop a relationship with them akin to parentage, that is not okay. Offering that up is not okay. It is much harder to be a mandated reporter and do what's supposed to be done for a kid in that kind of trouble.

I have a lot of thoughts about this. You've developed a weird strawman hypothetical here but let's go with the drug thing presented here. Just imagine for a moment you're dealing with a kid with a serious drug problem. They claim they have been kicked out and disowned because their parents can't stand them when perhaps they left because their parents searched their room to keep drugs out of the house. You take them in. Is it possible the kid is lying about the situation at home? About the extent of the drug use? Do drug addicts ever lie? Do teenagers ever lie? They continue to use because they have a comfortable place to land. Authorities aren't involved at all because you're the cool mom, not a regular mom. Maybe, just maybe, despite what the kid said their parents are at home worried sick that their kid's habit is getting worse and aren't actually the evil people the kid has told you they are. Maybe the kid goes out one night and ODs, ostensibly on your watch as their new mom, but not really because she's just crashing on your couch.

Now imagine the parents really are evil and the kid has a serious drug problem because of abuse in the home. You take them in because again you're a cool mom, not a regular mom. You don't have any legal recourse or help for them because you can't involve authorities. If you involve authorities, their drug use is exposed. You don't have any legal guardianship to get them help. You've just been nice to offer to support and encourage them through a crisis. What happens next? They are a minor. You've offered to be the mom they need.

Or imagine a 3rd scenario where the person who offers to fill the parental role is a predator and takes advantage of a strung out kid with parents out of the picture. Just an offer from the internet or a friend of a friend to give them support and encouragement. You can crash at my place. No strings. And no background check for the new parent.

Either way, the "I'll be your mom now" isn't the way to go in any scenario I can think of.* Replace the drug use scenario with any other mental health crisis. There is no way to know without involving people who can actually, legally sus out the situation. There's reasons we have whole government institutions called social services that have a hard time dealing with this stuff! It is bold beyond belief for anyone who doesn't live in the home to just take the kids' word and enable whatever is going on by offering to be their new mom.

So that is why it is toxic and dangerous. Any adult who really cared about a minor in a crisis situation would not do that in any kind of healthy, normal relationship. If we're talking about two adults and one of them offering to be the parent, that isn't any less creepy but at least consensual I guess. If you just want to talk about someone saying, "Good job on your varsity letter!" or helping change a flat, that isn't a parental role, it isn't being someone's mom and the connotation is weird to consider it that way. Parents have to do a lot more than just encouragement and support. There's offering advice, helping with self-discipline, teaching them executive function when they don't want to go to school, being honest when you think something is a bad decision. All kids need support and encouragement. That is not all kids need. I think a lot of us didn't grow up with the idea that when we got into a real-real fight with our parents and slammed the door we'd go online and just get total affirmation from really cool people that our parents are terrible and hey, if you need, just come sit by me. But what if, in that real-real fight the parents were holding a line that needed to be held for that kid's safety or long term well-being??

*I have to caveat this to say that I'm not speaking of actual adoption in any sense that happens via a legal process that is supervised by the courts and social services with multiple background checks and such.

Unless I missed something, no one was talking about minors (I certainly wasn't). To me, that is a completely separate conversation. 

How did I create a "weird strawman" with drugs? I did no bring up drugs, you did (and, if you think people only continue to use drugs when they have a soft place to land, you don't understand addiction at all).

I didn't bring up mental health crises, either, but rather young people who are hurting because the people who are supposed to love them unconditionally, don't. 

I don't know if I can meaningfully respond to what you said about parenting being more about encouragement and support, because you were talking about minors and I was not. Yes, parents do more than that even for young adults, which is why I said people attend weddings and such in loco parentis - in place of the parent. Parenting is more than encouragement and support, but others can offer encouragement and support in the place of the absent parents. 

I think it's sad and a little strange that you think it's "creepy" that anyone over the age of 20 would want a supportive parental figure in their lives or at their wedding. When you've been cast off from your family because of who you are, "I'll be your mom" is shorthand for you deserve support, and there's nothing wrong with who you are, which can be a very powerful thing for a young person to hear. 

"Egregious behavior/abuse is one thing." This sentence bothers me a lot, because I think it feeds into the idea that some level of abuse is acceptable and should be tolerated, as long as it's not outstandingly bad or shocking.