Help with Reading as a subject

[Servant4Christ]

Oldest will be entering 6th grade this fall. Since mid 3rd grade, I have not used a formal reading curriculum with him. I've just allowed him to read for pleasure because he loves to read. I research reviews and find fiction, nonfiction, biographies, and historical fiction that work well alongside his history curriculum (Notgrass). He LOVES it and has always placed well above grade level on end of year standardized tests (high regs here), so I really haven't worried much. I'm thinking it's time to do something, though. I know at some point he'll need more than just comprehension and vocabulary. I don't know if I should buy a Reading curriculum like R&S (he likes their stories) and read with him and discuss the workbook questions orally or if I should attempt to piecemeal individual components. 

Stuff of interest I've looked at recently include:

Reading Detective/ Critical Thinking Detective

Story Elements/ Figurative Language (Stark)

Forms and Elements of Literature (TCR)/ The Basics of Critical Thinking 

I'm assuming these are the pairings I would use for each possibility.

Opinions, thoughts?

 

[HomeAgain]

I don't have opinions on the ones you are looking at, but I'm always a fan of a few minutes of guided reading each day.  We use the Elson Readers and have been very happy with them.  DS likes the variety and I like how the discussion questions encourage him to really interact with the texts.

[Servant4Christ]

@HomeAgain I saw you mention these in another thread. What age/grade level do the Elson readers go to? Do they have more than just comprehension questions? I think I'm trying to figure out what and when to use something to introduce identifying story elements, literary devices, ect. If I can avoid the need for a bunch of writing (he loathes workbooks) that's a plus because I don't want to put a damper on his love of reading.

Edited April 9, 2022 by Servant4Christ

[HomeAgain]

2 minutes ago, Servant4Christ said:

@HomeAgain I saw you mention these in another thread. What age/grade level do the Elson readers go to? Do they have more than just comprehension questions? I think I'm trying to figure out what and when to use something to introduce identifying story elements, literary devices, ect. 

They go to grade 8.  There is an optional teacher's guide for each level which has the same questions as well as additional activities.  Here are some of the types of discussion questions in Grade 6:

Poetry:

With what statement does the first stanza open?

Find a statement in each stanza which is contradicted by other statements in the same stanza.

What do you think was the poet's purpose in writing this poem?

Literature:

Tell the story from the following outline.

Compare Eph's feelings with that of the inventor about his neighbor's gifts.

Give instances of Eph's unselfishness.

 

Then there are additional activities in the teacher's guide.

Poetry:

Poets often use figurative language to help communicate a message.  At least three types of figurative language are used in these poems.  Reread the poems and find examples of each of the figurative languages described and explain how they help communicate the poet's meaning. (Metaphor, simile, personification)

Worksheets based on learning how to stop and paraphrase or read each line for meaning.

Identification of specific wordplay and writing them out in diagrams.

 

Literature:

Research early voyagers and discover more about their adventures.

Give illustrations about Ulysses' cunning and craftiness

Make a list of 10 or more nouns used to describe other nouns in the story

Compare the section's Great American Authors in the following chart.  Look for similarities and differences.  After completing the chart, research one of the authors further and write an essay, developing a thesis statement that identifies their research and reason for choosing that author

[Green Bean]

R&S- you know it, you know Oldest will enjoy the stories, therefore it will get done.

I use MP guides so no help otherwise.

[Servant4Christ]

I'm looking up the Elson readers tonight after I get the kids to bed. They sounds lovely. I figured out why they sound so familiar: the Elson Readers are used also in another program I recently looked at for Middle. Thank you for taking the time to type all that @HomeAgain!

[caffeineandbooks]

You mentioned wanting your kiddo to do some work on story elements and literary devices.  I think Teaching the Classics could be right up your alley!

I'm not a fan of the workbook approach - reluctant writers here also - but love Center for Lit's Teaching the Classics method.  You read a book then have an in-depth discussion together, using Socratic questions that Teaching the Classics provides.  If you want to add writing output, you then have the kiddo write a thematic paragraph or essay after your discussion.  The method works for any book, but if you want some more hand-holding, you can also purchase "Ready Readers" for particular titles that include questions and sample answers.  If you want even more hand-holding, you can purchase a recorded discussion from their live classes and watch that together.

In recent years, they've run live online classes over the summer (read and discuss, no writing assignments).  You might consider those as well, as a way to test the waters and see if this feels like a good fit for your family.

You can buy their stuff through places like Rainbow Resource, but also directly from www.centerforlit.com.  Good luck!

[Lori D.]

Poetry
Michael Clay Thompson Poetics series
- The Music of the Hemispheres (ages 5-10)
- Building Poems (ages 9-11)
- A World of Poetry (ages 10-12) -- probably start here for a 6th grader, as it reviews the first 2 books, and goes deeper
The next 4 books in his series really require the foundation from the previous book, and are for high school:
(Poetry of Literature; Poetry and Humanity; Poetry, Plato, and the Problem of Beauty; Poetry, Plato, and the Problem of Truth)

Art of Poetry -- grades 7-12 (this is often used in high school, so not quite yet for a rising 6th grader)


Literary Terms and learning to see them
Figuratively Speaking: Using Classic Literature to Teach 40 Literary Terms
- I linked Rainbow Resource so you can see inside; it's also at Amazon
+
"Figuratively Speaking paired with short stories" -- past thread with a big list of ideas (short stories, poetry, novels) to go with each of the literary elements covered in the guide

Walch Toolbox: Prose & Poetry
- covers some lesser known/used literary elements, but then has a big section on poetry forms and structures that is useful

Beginning Lit. guides with literature topic info + discussion questions
Discovering Literature (challenger level, for grades 8-12) teaching guides are pretty meaty, with great teaching info and actual discussion (rather than comprehension) questions. I don't think I've seen the regular level guides (grades 4-8), so not sure if they are as meaty. But it would be worth a look.

Beginning Literature program
If you want to continue the style of reading you've been doing, but add a beginning more formal program that is all there for you, possibly look at Lightning Literature 7. The sweet spot is for 7th grade, but a strong reading 6th grader could do it without too much difficulty (perhaps do it together rather than as student-independent). LL comes with 3 components:

- Student Guide (teaching info, written to the student)
- Student Workbook (8-10 work pages per unit of putting the literary element or topic into practice)
- Teacher Guide (answers; additional discussion questions; schedule; a few other resources)

LL has 8 units and covers:
- 2 poetry units, each with 6-8 poems
- 2 short story units ("Rikki Tikki Tavi" and "Bride Comes to Yellow Sky")
- 4 longer works:
   • The Adventures of Tom Sawyer (realistic/humorous fiction)
   • Alice's Adventures in Wonderland (fantastical/humorous fiction)
   • Story of My Life by Helen Keller (autobiography)
   • All Creatures Great and Small (autobiographical/humorous sketches)

[nwahomeschoolmom]

We have done CLE Reading 3, 4, 5, and Rod and Staff Reading 5.  My son is also a very prolific reader and I find the anthology approach works best for us because it gives him the tools to use in his "own" reading, without taking the enjoyment away from those novels.  I also know we are covering all the bases, enriching vocabulary, studying poetry, etc.  We did some of the Memoria Press guides earlier on and then I stopped that because I realized that it wasn't necessary at this young age (I didn't start doing studies like that until I got to high school and I still succeeded in college, etc.)  We will probably stick with CLE Reading (rotating with R&S)  for quite a while since it can be done in a semester starting with the 5th grade year, and then supplement with other books.

On 4/9/2022 at 2:58 PM, Green Bean said:

R&S- you know it, you know Oldest will enjoy the stories, therefore it will get done.

I use MP guides so no help otherwise.

Totally agree!!  CLE Reading and R&S Reading are very similar, except CLE Reading does a much better job at teaching literary elements, etc.

And really, with CLE Reading and R&S Reading (aside from some stories with theological differences you might skip) you don't have to worry about anything in them!  Looking back at my private high school in the 90s, most of the novels we read were filled with propaganda.  I don't even want to know what passes for literature these days.  

In high school, my son will probably be reading Dickens, The Space Trilogy, Dostoevksy, Dante's Inferno and novels like that are challenging but also support our beliefs, but for now we are good with this.

 

Edited April 10, 2022 by nwahomeschoolmom

[Servant4Christ]

On 4/10/2022 at 5:20 PM, nwahomeschoolmom said:

We have done CLE Reading 3, 4, 5, and Rod and Staff Reading 5.  My son is also a very prolific reader and I find the anthology approach works best for us because it gives him the tools to use in his "own" reading, without taking the enjoyment away from those novels.  I also know we are covering all the bases, enriching vocabulary, studying poetry, etc.  We did some of the Memoria Press guides earlier on and then I stopped that because I realized that it wasn't necessary at this young age (I didn't start doing studies like that until I got to high school and I still succeeded in college, etc.)  We will probably stick with CLE Reading (rotating with R&S)  for quite a while since it can be done in a semester starting with the 5th grade year, and then supplement with other books.

Totally agree!!  CLE Reading and R&S Reading are very similar, except CLE Reading does a much better job at teaching literary elements, etc.

And really, with CLE Reading and R&S Reading (aside from some stories with theological differences you might skip) you don't have to worry about anything in them!  Looking back at my private high school in the 90s, most of the novels we read were filled with propaganda.  I don't even want to know what passes for literature these days.  

In high school, my son will probably be reading Dickens, The Space Trilogy, Dostoevksy, Dante's Inferno and novels like that are challenging but also support our beliefs, but for now we are good with this.

 

I love the way CLE teaches literary devices and such. We used CLE 1-3 and then ditched it and haven't done any formal reading curriculum since. There is just way too much nonresistance in CLE's reading program. It became confusing for Oldest to distinguish their beliefs from ours. We loved the Christianity, farm life, and wholesomeness in their stories, though. We aren't an overly patriotic or military family, but we read the Bible for what it says and there is clearly a time for everything including war and to ignore or teach otherwise isn't acceptable here.

Edited April 11, 2022 by Servant4Christ

[nwahomeschoolmom]

1 hour ago, Servant4Christ said:

I love the way CLE teaches literary devices and such. We used CLE 1-3 and then ditched it and haven't done any formal reading curriculum since. There is just way to much nonresistance in CLE's reading program. It became confusing for Oldest to distinguish their beliefs from ours. We loved the Christianity, farm life, and wholesomeness in their stories, though. We aren't an overly patriotic or military family, but we read the Bible for what it says and there is clearly a time for everything including war and to ignore or teach otherwise isn't acceptable here.

Yes, we are not that either, but we didn't see that in the levels we used.  Maybe they try to include that a lot in the earlier grades?  Not sure.  Nearly all of their selections have worked for us and we are definitely not "pacifists."   Maybe there are one or two a year that we skipped?  Maybe it is not worth if for ya'll, but the percentage that we could use was still worth it for us.  It's possible I don't notice it that much too?  I don't really remember reading any stories where I felt the characters should have defended themselves and didn't, but we do skip stories with Mennonite theology so maybe those were the ones.  I do remember one story where they prayed for safety from some potentially dangerous people and were kept safe, but it didn't bother me.  It would have bothered me if that story had the people attack and the main characters did nothing to defend themselves though.  So the selections do include those type of situations...

Edited April 10, 2022 by nwahomeschoolmom

[Brittany1116]

I love Progeny Press lit guides. We started them age 9ish I think, and only do 2 a year so far. We also started with books we already knew and loved. 

[Servant4Christ]

51 minutes ago, nwahomeschoolmom said:

Yes, we are not that either, but we didn't see that in the levels we used.  Maybe they try to include that a lot in the earlier grades?  Not sure.  Nearly all of their selections have worked for us and we are definitely not "pacifists."   Maybe there are one or two a year that we skipped?  Maybe it is not worth if for ya'll, but the percentage that we could use was still worth it for us.  It's possible I don't notice it that much too?  I don't really remember reading any stories where I felt the characters should have defended themselves and didn't, but we do skip stories with Mennonite theology so maybe those were the ones.  I do remember one story where they prayed for safety from some potentially dangerous people and were kept safe, but it didn't bother me.  It would have bothered me if that story had the people attack and the main characters did nothing to defend themselves though.  So the selections do include those type of situations...

I found some in the online samples when I was reconsidering CLE again more recently, but I can't remember in which grades. It's usually not anything that's blatantly obvious, though. It's little things that are continually planting seeds such as an historical fiction story that talks about a boy getting a 'funny feeling' when told the he needs to enlist in the war followed by questions in the lightunit that guide the student toward nonresistant thinking. I notice them because my son remembers, processes, and talks about the real life application of these stories long after he's read them. He's old enough now that I probably could go back to CLE, but those workbooks (we used them for every single subject for 3+ years) have scarred him for life. 

[BoyMom2]

I have experience with Reading Detective and Forms/Elements of Literature that you mentioned in your first post. My 5th grader has used each of those this year alongside a mixture of other resources. This mix has included: assigned reading (nonfiction and historical fiction) related to our history program, a Novel-Ties study guide, Reading Detective A1, Forms & Elements of Literature, and short excerpts to practice summary writing.

The Forms/Elements workbook is a quick one to get through. My son did a page each Friday until he finished the book, and I found it to be a good introduction to a myriad of literature elements. The Novel-Ties guide he used also included literary elements in each section, in addition to vocabulary work and discussion questions. I was very happy with it, however, I cannot attest to whether they are all set up in this format.

I am undecided on Reading Detective. It has served its purpose as he has completed assignments mixed in throughout the year, giving him practice in analyzing a passage and supporting an answer with specific information. However, I can't imagine my son doing it daily or as his only reading curriculum. He would likely find it tedious and boring if used in that way, which might suck the fun out of reading for him.

For 6th, I came across a free student and teacher copy of Mosdos Press (Pearl). It looks fantastic and might be another option for you to look at.

 

[nwahomeschoolmom]

On 4/10/2022 at 6:54 PM, Servant4Christ said:

I found some in the online samples when I was reconsidering CLE again more recently, but I can't remember in which grades. It's usually not anything that's blatantly obvious, though. It's little things that are continually planting seeds such as an historical fiction story that talks about a boy getting a 'funny feeling' when told the he needs to enlist in the war followed by questions in the lightunit that guide the student toward nonresistant thinking. I notice them because my son remembers, processes, and talks about the real life application of these stories long after he's read them. He's old enough now that I probably could go back to CLE, but those workbooks (we used them for every single subject for 3+ years) have scarred him for life. 

We did come across some "non-resistance" teaching in Rod and Staff 5 today, but it was only in the Teacher's Manual, so I left it out.  It was a story about an early martyr and they left out the fact that the martyrs were resisting evil by refusing to sacrifice to false gods, they weren't just being peaceful and non-resistant, they were boldly proclaiming their beliefs.  Being Orthodox Christians, there are times when Saint-Martyrs have chosen not to defend themselves in imitation of Christ, in specific situations, but Orthodox Christians are also supportive of defending other Christians, own families, true freedom, and homeland etc. (i.e. being a soldier in an army fighting for a good cause is thought to be a noble thing to do.) It's not so  black-and-white with us, so I am able to make the curriculum work for us using our own context most of the time, except when the materials discuss Mennonite theology and such, but I can see why it could be too much for some.

[BusyMom5]

I'm in the exact same spot- trying to figure out what to have my 6th grader do next year.  My older kids did Mosdos,  and I really liked it.  So far I haven't found anything better.  I'm considering TGATB, but more bc I wouldn't have to add anything.  

My current plan, unless I find something better:

Mosdos Pearl- text and workbook

Fix It Grammar

Soaring with Spelling 

Handwriting practice

Maybe a few more formal writing projects?  And I will add at least 4 bigger books, but those will becread and discussed, no lit study guides.